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Author Topic: Throne Room/Kings Court and Reserve Cards  (Read 917 times)

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DaveColMD

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Throne Room/Kings Court and Reserve Cards
« on: November 02, 2022, 06:42:41 pm »
0

I'm looking for a logical explanation so I can explain it to other players why reserve cards are treated differently than duration cards when it comes to TR and KC.

When you TR or KC a duration card the TR/KC goes with it and applies the next time it is played.

When you TR/KC a reserve card like a Ratcatcher or Wine Merchant, you play them the multiple times, then they go to the Tavern Mat without the TR/KC.

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kieranmillar

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Re: Throne Room/Kings Court and Reserve Cards
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2022, 07:25:31 pm »
+2

The logical explanation is quite simple: thrones stay in play with durations because that's what the rules say  :P

But in all seriousness, thrones don't move to other non-play areas when the card they throne does so I'm not sure why you would think they would go onto the tavern mat. For example, when you throne a card that trashes itself, like Embargo or Acting Troupe, the throne doesn't also move to the trash. When you throne a Horse, the throne doesn't go back to its pile. So why would the throne go to the tavern mat?

When you throne a ratcatcher, next turn you only get to call it once and trash one card, the part below the line doesn't get done twice, so there's no extra thing to remember about because you throned it last turn.

Also your example misunderstands how these cards work. When you throne a ratcatcher, you don't play it twice, then move it to the tavern mat, you play it the first time, putting it in play, and move it to the mat as part of resolving that play, then you play it again, but don't need to move it back into play because you don't do that for subsequent plays of the card via thrones (its just a rule), then while resolving the second play you try to move it to the tavern mat again but its already there.

Also, just to be clear, duration cards don't get played again next turn, they simply continue resolving the plays that happened the last turn, which haven't finished yet. The thrones stay in play to remind you the effect you are still resolving is happening multiple times.
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Awaclus

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Re: Throne Room/Kings Court and Reserve Cards
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2022, 08:22:05 pm »
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The logical explanation is quite simple: thrones stay in play with durations because that's what the rules say  :P

Well, this is basically the actual reason. Only cards with the Duration type are affected by the Duration rules, which is what causes the Durations and the Thrones to stay in play for multiple turns:

Quote
Duration cards are not discarded in Clean-up if they have something left to do; they stay in play until the Clean-up of the last turn that they do something.
Additionally, if a Duration card is played extra times by a card such as [Throne Room, Scepter, Mastermind or Specialist], that card also stays in play until the Duration card is discarded, to track the fact that the Duration card was played extra times.

Reserve cards have no special rules, they just work normally (i.e. as explained above).
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DaveColMD

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Re: Throne Room/Kings Court and Reserve Cards
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2022, 08:18:20 am »
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Where can I find these rules?

This came about because we added Adventures to our collection. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything in the Adventures rules about how reserve cards interact with TR/KC type actions.

I even looked in the Dominion Wiki to find some clarification on reserve cards, but there was nothing more there regarding TR/KC.

I know online all these rules and errata are enforced via the online game, but for those of us who play IRL, we don't have all these extra rules clarifications.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 08:20:03 am by DaveColMD »
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Udzu

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Re: Throne Room/Kings Court and Reserve Cards
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2022, 08:38:49 am »
+2

Where can I find these rules?

The original rules on TR/Duration was in the Seaside rulebook.

Quote
This came about because we added Adventures to our collection. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything in the Adventures rules about how reserve cards interact with TR/KC type actions.

I even looked in the Dominion Wiki to find some clarification on reserve cards, but there was nothing more there regarding TR/KC.

That's because (as the other comments have already mentioned) there are no special rules about how reserve cards interact with TR. You need to understand how TR interacts with cards that leave play, but that's been the case since Dominion 1E and Feast.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 08:43:16 am by Udzu »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Throne Room/Kings Court and Reserve Cards
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2022, 11:24:50 pm »
+1

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything in the Adventures rules about how reserve cards interact with TR/KC type actions.

It sounds possible that you're thinking that if you Throne Room a Ratcatcher, then at the start of a future turn you would get to call Ratcatcher twice, or call it once to do the trash a card effect twice. This is not correct; Throne Room has no impact on what Ratcatcher does when you call it. The card is done being played by that point, having played it multiple times originally has no connection to the rules about calling a Reserve card.

Because Throne Room has no effect on what Ratcatcher does on a later turn when called, there's no reason that there would be any rule related to it. Playing a Throne Room on Ratcatcher is no different than playing a Throne Room on Smithy. The reason that there is a special rule about Duration cards is that next turn when a Throned Duration card is doing something at the start of the turn, you need a reminder that the thing will happen twice. It happens twice because the card was played twice, just like if you had played 2 copies of the Duration card.
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DaveColMD

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Re: Throne Room/Kings Court and Reserve Cards
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2022, 01:14:21 pm »
+1

Thanks for all the replies. I think I can now  come up with an explanation that my friends will buy.
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