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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print  (Read 5476 times)

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Gamer3000

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Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« on: September 21, 2022, 12:40:14 am »
+10

Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print

Your challenge this week is to design a card with text under a dividing line that makes the card weaker than it would be otherwise.

You can use mechanics from any expansion. The drawback must be an effect that would normally be placed below a dividing line. These include effects that occur sometime other than when the card is played (e.g. on trash, gain, or discard), setup instructions, and cost changes. While I will be judging based off my perception of the card as a whole, I will have a slight preference to cards whose penalty feels like a natural complement to its above-line text.

Some existing cards that would be eligible are: Cursed Village, Grand Market, Charlatan, Cache, Lost City, and Capital.

Submissions will close on the 28th. Good luck!
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Builder_Roberts

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2022, 12:53:56 am »
+9

Alright, I'll go first I guess.



Quote
Eldritch Dealer - Action - $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$2
-
When you gain this, gain a Curse, unless you pay $3.

This is a 4-cost card that gives you a curse when you gain it; or it's a 7-cost card. When the curses run out, it's much better, but at that point it's late in the game. With trashers in the kingdom, it's wonderful to pick up early, but not too many of them. Gainers can play a couple nice tricks, assuming you have the spare coin, which this helps you to get going.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2022, 11:55:04 am »
+2



Fortune? With a bit of a more direct way to double your money. Costs $6 but has the Mint and Grand Market clauses so you're gonna have to trash some of those Treasures you might want to play again. Doesn't consider stuff like cost reduction-Workshop, but if you can get it in a non-traditional way good for you.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 12:29:51 pm by Augie279 »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2022, 12:17:00 pm »
+1



Fortune? With a bit of a more direct way to double your money. Costs $6 but has the Mint and Grand Market clauses so you're gonna have to trash some of those Treasures you might want to play again. Doesn't consider stuff like cost reduction-Workshop, but if you can get it in a non-traditional way good for you.

It should probably say "trash all non-Duration Treasures you have in play." Although fairly remote, there are cases where a player might gain this on another player's turn. It probably shouldn't trash all of that opponent's Treasure cards.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2022, 12:31:19 pm »
0

It should probably say "trash all non-Duration Treasures you have in play." Although fairly remote, there are cases where a player might gain this on another player's turn. It probably shouldn't trash all of that opponent's Treasure cards.

Fixed, ty.
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nyxfulloftricks

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2022, 01:00:59 pm »
+2



Quote
Blood Ruby
Treasure $4

You may play a Treasure from your hand three times.
-
When this is gained, Exile 2 Curses from the supply and each other player gets +1 Coffers.[\quote]
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2022, 01:36:56 pm »
+15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2022, 03:06:34 pm »
+12



City of Gold is a pretty straightforward alt-VP card, like a Feodum that counts Golds instead of Silvers. You get a nice 1:1 ratio vs. Feodum's 3:1, but each one you gain lets your opponents gain a Gold (and making their Cities of Gold worth more).
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2022, 03:32:08 pm »
+4

Freshman
Action
$2

Discard your hand. +5 Cards
__________________________________________________
When you gain this each other player gains 2 Villagers


Notes and thoughts
- "Discard your hand. +X Cards" is becoming a more common mechanic in more recent sets but we haven't yet seen a sub $5 card that does this when played. I decided to go down this route.
- I decided to make a cheaper version of Scholar, which is where the name Freshman comes from. The thematic link made me think that the below the line clause should in some way link to University. That is why I decided to give other players actions.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2022, 10:43:02 pm »
+8

My Submission:



Quote
Runaway • $4 • Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard a card.


When you gain this, if you don't have Out in the Cold, take it.

Quote
Out in the Cold • State
When you discard a card other than during Clean-up, return this, and discard two additional cards.

My submission is Runaway, a Fugitive variant. At $4 Fugitive would be too strong if you could just buy it (instead of needing to get it by playing its terminal predecessors one at a time), but it's much too weak at $5 compared to Laboratory. Runaway has the same effect on-play as Fugitive, and costs $4, but when you gain it you also take Out in the Cold. Generally, this means that the first time you play a Runaway, you get hit with a virtual Militia. However, if you can buy/gain multiple Runaways before you play one, you only get hit with OitC once. On the other hand, if you get hit with an actual Militia (or other discard-to-3) it's extremely painful.
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Builder_Roberts

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2022, 01:58:58 am »
0

That's a really, really good take on a fugitive variant. Dang.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2022, 07:03:27 am »
0

The Gate 4$ Action
+1 action
+1 buy
+3$
_
When you gain this, gain a Gate Guardian

Gate Guardian 3$ Action
+2$
You cannot play other cards from your hand for the Rest of this turn.
When you draw this card, except during clean-up, play it. (Has a distinctive back to prevent cheating)
The first time you trash a gate guardian per turn, discard it.

Behind the gate seems to be a treasure, but the price is high... The Gate Guardian stops you dead in your tracks, and even when technically it's not always a downside, a way weaker duchess that you have to gain is pretty damning. But at least for 4 you get a nonterminal gold! Gate Guardian functions like ruins, except there are always 12 of them to prevent too easy 3-piling.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 08:13:09 am by sumrex »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2022, 07:07:50 am »
0

Btw, is there a way for everyone to host a weekly design co test? Do you need to apply or something?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2022, 08:20:45 am »
+2

Btw, is there a way for everyone to host a weekly design co test? Do you need to apply or something?
The reward for winning a Weekly Design Contest is being able to host and judge the next one. Other than that, no necessary applications.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2022, 11:37:44 pm »
+1

Corrupt City
Action - Looter - $5
+2 Cards
+3 Actions
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins.

Depending on the Ruins, it's overall either a Lost City (Ruined Library), Bazaar (Abandoned Mine), Bustling Village (Ruined Village), Workers' Village (Ruined Market), or Spy-Village thing (Survivors). It's always at least a Village though, and it becomes super good if you can get rid of the Ruins.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2022, 04:25:09 am »
+1

Corrupt City
Action - Looter - $5
+2 Cards
+3 Actions
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins.

Depending on the Ruins, it's overall either a Lost City (Ruined Library), Bazaar (Abandoned Mine), Bustling Village (Ruined Village), Workers' Village (Ruined Market), or Spy-Village thing (Survivors). It's always at least a Village though, and it becomes super good if you can get rid of the Ruins.

Very very strong: i think this could be 6$ personally.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2022, 04:45:10 am »
0

are cards like ways, landscapes or Allies allowed?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2022, 09:30:44 pm »
+6

Crumbling City
Action - $3
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
_________
When you discard this from play, if you have Actions remaining, return this to its pile.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 06:10:47 am by NoMoreFun »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2022, 10:15:56 pm »
0

Corrupt City
Action - Looter - $5
+2 Cards
+3 Actions
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins.

Depending on the Ruins, it's overall either a Lost City (Ruined Library), Bazaar (Abandoned Mine), Bustling Village (Ruined Village), Workers' Village (Ruined Market), or Spy-Village thing (Survivors). It's always at least a Village though, and it becomes super good if you can get rid of the Ruins.

Very very strong: i think this could be 6$ personally.

Why? Is it because you think it's easy to deal with the Ruins? Of the 5 possibilities, only one is worth more than $5.

are cards like ways, landscapes or Allies allowed?

I think they would be, if they have a "in games using this" clause - that's the only way I can think of for there to be under-the-line "fine print".
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 11:04:24 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2022, 10:09:13 am »
0

Storebox
cost $3 - Action
You may trash or discard any number of cards from your hand. +$1 per card you trashed or discarded.
---
When you gain this, each other player may trash a card from their hand.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2022, 11:06:41 am »
+12


Quote
Sombrero - $3
Action

+2 Cards
+1 Action
-
When shuffling this, put it on the bottom of your deck.
This card has a special back like Stash.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2022, 01:58:14 pm »
+8

Sombrero - $3

Imagine being useless for so long, and then just before a good combo shows up, you get removed from the game. Poor Pearl Diver.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2022, 02:27:37 pm »
0

are cards like ways, landscapes or Allies allowed?

If you think you can make it work, have at it!
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2022, 08:28:44 pm »
+2



Quote
Virus Lab - $3 - Action

+2 Cards
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. If you revealed any Curses, gain a Curse.
-
When you gain this, gain a Curse to the top of your deck.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2022, 04:17:00 pm »
+1

Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration - Reaction
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn. Discard the rest.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).

EDIT: used Udzu's suggestion for the top half to shorten the word count. (not sure his suggestion for the bottom half works.)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 03:14:34 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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D782802859

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2022, 08:02:32 pm »
0


Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Discard the other revealed cards. If you revealed a Treasure, play it. Otherwise, set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).
Should probably be a reaction.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2022, 10:08:26 pm »
+1


Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Discard the other revealed cards. If you revealed a Treasure, play it. Otherwise, set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).

What about "reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure other than an Icy Venture"?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2022, 10:16:12 pm »
0


Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Discard the other revealed cards. If you revealed a Treasure, play it. Otherwise, set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).

What about "reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure other than an Icy Venture"?

Then it wouldn't qualify.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2022, 01:16:44 am »
0


Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Discard the other revealed cards. If you revealed a Treasure, play it. Otherwise, set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).
Should probably be a reaction.
Oh yeah, forgot that. fixed now.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2022, 02:48:27 am »
0


Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Discard the other revealed cards. If you revealed a Treasure, play it. Otherwise, set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).
Should probably be a reaction.
Oh yeah, forgot that. fixed now.
FWIW, this is what this would look like on an actual card (not the right triple-color scheme):


Which satisfies the "fine print" of the contest, but I think it would be good to look into ways in which you can reduce the amount of text needed.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 02:49:51 am by faust »
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Holger

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2022, 11:43:27 am »
0



Quote
Virus Lab - $3 - Action

+2 Cards
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. If you revealed any Curses, gain a Curse.
-
When you gain this, gain a Curse to the top of your deck.

In games without a possibility to get rid of the Curses, this is worse than a do-nothing cantrip. (The lab's card draw and the when-gain curse cancel each other out over each shuffle, except for the -1VP, and you will likely not be able to play Virus Lab or get further curses several times).

In the more common case where you can trash curses, Virus Lab may be worth buying, but you still risk a Rats-like cascade of Curses if you're unlucky to draw a Curse from playing Virus Lab itself.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2022, 01:53:14 pm »
+5



It's jealous of other cards you get  ;D
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 01:54:43 pm by exfret »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2022, 06:37:06 pm »
+1

Quote
+2 cards
+2 actions
Gain a horse
-
When you gain this or another non-copper non-horse card while this is in play, gain a copper.
———
Action
———
(5)

This was originally designed as the 5th card in a castles-esq split pile based on the song Big Fat Hen, with the tenth “card” being a way, but I think it would work fine as a full pile, hence the submission. Being a full pile might require moving another card (or 2) to horses.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2022, 07:23:07 pm »
+1

Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Discard the other revealed cards. If you revealed a Treasure, play it. Otherwise, set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).
FWIW, this is what this would look like on an actual card (not the right triple-color scheme):


Which satisfies the "fine print" of the contest, but I think it would be good to look into ways in which you can reduce the amount of text needed.
oh. uh...
I guess that's the problem with not mocking up cards is I never realize how wordy they turn out to be.
If I think of a better version (or something else), I'll update it. If not, well, I probably won't win.
(Also, I keep thinking up concepts that seem simple in my head but take a lot of words to write out.)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 07:24:21 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2022, 07:47:47 pm »
0

I have the same problem, most of my favorite cards I’ve made have 10+ lines.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2022, 09:20:02 pm »
0

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2022, 02:34:18 am »
0



It's jealous of other cards you get  ;D

Can I add an addendum for it to say "during your action phase". I didn't mean for it to also restrict cards gained during buy phase too!
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exfret

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2022, 02:52:50 am »
+1

Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Discard the other revealed cards. If you revealed a Treasure, play it. Otherwise, set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).
FWIW, this is what this would look like on an actual card (not the right triple-color scheme):


Which satisfies the "fine print" of the contest, but I think it would be good to look into ways in which you can reduce the amount of text needed.
oh. uh...
I guess that's the problem with not mocking up cards is I never realize how wordy they turn out to be.
If I think of a better version (or something else), I'll update it. If not, well, I probably won't win.
(Also, I keep thinking up concepts that seem simple in my head but take a lot of words to write out.)

Oh that's nothing

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Udzu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2022, 04:55:27 am »
+2

Treasure Island: it's an Island that's a Treasure! Can be played either as a Spoils, or as a spike-thinner. Needs playtesting to check it's balanced.




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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2022, 09:59:01 am »
+2

I guess that's the problem with not mo cking up cards is I never realize how wordy they turn out to be.
If I think of a better version (or something else), I'll update it. If not, well, I probably won't win.
(Also, I keep thinking up concepts that seem simple in my head but take a lot of words to write out.)

Oh that's nothing



oh that's nothing

Udzu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2022, 11:49:50 am »
+1

Quote
Icy Venture
$5 - Treasure - Duration
+$2
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Discard the other revealed cards. If you revealed a Treasure, play it. Otherwise, set it aside and play it at the start of your next turn.
-
When you reveal this, set it aside, and keep revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed it, then discard this when the current card is resolved.
A Venture that can't hit copies of itself. (not sure about the best wording).
FWIW, this is what this would look like on an actual card (not the right triple-color scheme):


Which satisfies the "fine print" of the contest, but I think it would be good to look into ways in which you can reduce the amount of text needed.
oh. uh...
I guess that's the problem with not mocking up cards is I never realize how wordy they turn out to be.
If I think of a better version (or something else), I'll update it. If not, well, I probably won't win.
(Also, I keep thinking up concepts that seem simple in my head but take a lot of words to write out.)

You could shrink the text slightly by simplifying the action and reaction:

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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2022, 12:59:25 pm »
+1



Quote
Mad Alchemist - $4
Action
If you have Toxic Vapors, you may put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat, for +3 Cards and +1 Action.
----
When you gain this, take Toxic Vapors.

Quote
Toxic Vapors
State
When scoring, -2% per 3 cards you have on your Tavern mat (round up).

A draw 2 that can put a card from hand onto your Tavern mat to be non-terminal and draw 2 more cards. The catch is that everyone starts with the Toxic Vapors state, which makes players lose VP based on how many cards are on their Tavern mat. Toxic Vapors being a State made the most sense. I had a design without the State, but it was a lot of reading and it multiplied the VP lost by how many Mad Alchemists you had, which was not what I wanted. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Changed Toxic Vapors to penalize more aggressively.  Mad Alchemist now plays more like Stables and requires you to have Toxic Vapors to function. Players now only take Toxic Vapors when they gain a Mad Alchemist. These changes should nerf Mad Alchemist and prevent hosing other cards that use the Tavern mat. The draw 4 cards may still be too good, but I want the card to be tempting. Should this be changed to just daw 3 cards? Feedback is appreciates.
Thanks to scott_pilgrim, 4est, and LibraryAdventurer.

Edit #2: Hit them both with the nerf bat. Mad Alchemist draws 3 instead of 4 cards and the VP penalty is -2VP per 3 cards. Balancing this to be tempting but not busted is difficult. Thanks to Holger for the feedback.

Old Version(s)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2022, 03:10:44 pm by Xen3k »
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2022, 02:19:44 pm »
+2

Quote
Mad Alchemist - $4
Action
+2 Cards
You may put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat, for +2 Cards and +1 Action.
-
Setup: Each player takes Toxic Vapors.

Quote
Toxic Vapors
State
When scoring, -2% per 5 cards you have on your Tavern mat (round up).

This drawback is not nearly harsh enough. If you put your whole starting deck onto your mat, you'll have -1 VP net, whereas if you trash your whole starting deck, you'll have 0 VP. So it's only slightly worse than just trashing cards. Then you also have the option to thin other green cards. So I think this is actually better than just +4 cards, +1 action, trash a card, which would be completely busted at $4.

I'm not sure if there's a reasonable ratio of -VP/card(s) where the card is balanced, but I do think the idea of thinning at the cost of VP is neat and has potential.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2022, 02:56:38 pm »
0

Quote
Mad Alchemist - $4
Action
+2 Cards
You may put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat, for +2 Cards and +1 Action.
-
Setup: Each player takes Toxic Vapors.

Quote
Toxic Vapors
State
When scoring, -2% per 5 cards you have on your Tavern mat (round up).

This drawback is not nearly harsh enough. If you put your whole starting deck onto your mat, you'll have -1 VP net, whereas if you trash your whole starting deck, you'll have 0 VP. So it's only slightly worse than just trashing cards. Then you also have the option to thin other green cards. So I think this is actually better than just +4 cards, +1 action, trash a card, which would be completely busted at $4.

I'm not sure if there's a reasonable ratio of -VP/card(s) where the card is balanced, but I do think the idea of thinning at the cost of VP is neat and has potential.

Ok, good point. I fiddled around with the severity of the punishment a bit and this ratio is the harshest when the penalty was on Mad Alchemist. I will adjust the penalty.
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4est

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2022, 03:14:44 pm »
+1

It will be fine in most games, but I don't like that the penalty will unnecessarily hose other cards that use the Tavern Mat, especially things like Miser, Ratcatcher, Distant Lands, and Wine Merchant which all encourage putting multiples of themselves (or Coppers in Miser's case) on the Tavern Mat. The simplest fix would be to just create a separate mat that's used just for Mad Alchemist. You also could then put the scoring instructions on the mat and eliminate the need for States.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2022, 03:23:50 pm »
0

It will be fine in most games, but I don't like that the penalty will unnecessarily hose other cards that use the Tavern Mat, especially things like Miser, Ratcatcher, Distant Lands, and Wine Merchant which all encourage putting multiples of themselves (or Coppers in Miser's case) on the Tavern Mat. The simplest fix would be to just create a separate mat that's used just for Mad Alchemist. You also could then put the scoring instructions on the mat and eliminate the need for States.

Having a dedicated Mat would be an interesting idea, but would not really fit the rules of the contest to have the penalty appear below the line. I could always have you gain the State if you gain a Mad Alchemist, so it becomes an active choice.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2022, 06:32:40 pm »
+1

It will be fine in most games, but I don't like that the penalty will unnecessarily hose other cards that use the Tavern Mat, especially things like Miser, Ratcatcher, Distant Lands, and Wine Merchant which all encourage putting multiples of themselves (or Coppers in Miser's case) on the Tavern Mat. The simplest fix would be to just create a separate mat that's used just for Mad Alchemist. You also could then put the scoring instructions on the mat and eliminate the need for States.

Having a dedicated Mat would be an interesting idea, but would not really fit the rules of the contest to have the penalty appear below the line. I could always have you gain the State if you gain a Mad Alchemist, so it becomes an active choice.
I think it needs to gain the state when you gain a Mad Alchemist. Otherwise, there's no reason for it to not be a Landmark (which would also disqualify the card). One easy way to make it a lot closer to being balanced is have it be +1 Card and +1 Action when you put a card on the mat (instead of another +2 cards). Would still be too strong for $4 with only that change, but then you can tweak the penalty till it works.

AJL828

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2022, 08:03:34 pm »
+1



Clothier
Action ($5)

Gain a Gold or 2 cards costing up to $4.
---
You can't buy this if you have any Golds in play.

Weaver, but bigger. However if you gain Golds it will be harder to acquire more of them, and as they can also gain you engine pieces it's something to be mindful of.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2022, 10:44:29 pm »
0



Clothier
Action ($5)

Gain a Gold or 2 cards costing up to $4.
---
You can't buy this if you have any Golds in play.

Weaver, but bigger. However if you gain Golds it will be harder to acquire more of them, and as they can also gain you engine pieces it's something to be mindful of.

combined $4 or $4 each?
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AJL828

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2022, 01:04:59 am »
+1



Clothier
Action ($5)

Gain a Gold or 2 cards costing up to $4.
---
You can't buy this if you have any Golds in play.

Weaver, but bigger. However if you gain Golds it will be harder to acquire more of them, and as they can also gain you engine pieces it's something to be mindful of.

combined $4 or $4 each?

$4 each.
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MrHiTech

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2022, 09:01:54 am »
0



Quote
Virus Lab - $3 - Action

+2 Cards
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. If you revealed any Curses, gain a Curse.
-
When you gain this, gain a Curse to the top of your deck.

In games without a possibility to get rid of the Curses, this is worse than a do-nothing cantrip. (The lab's card draw and the when-gain curse cancel each other out over each shuffle, except for the -1VP, and you will likely not be able to play Virus Lab or get further curses several times).

In the more common case where you can trash curses, Virus Lab may be worth buying, but you still risk a Rats-like cascade of Curses if you're unlucky to draw a Curse from playing Virus Lab itself.

Yeah. Don't bother judging this. I don't have time to make it better.
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Gamer3000

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2022, 02:07:20 pm »
0

24 hours remaining
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arowdok

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2022, 05:21:41 pm »
+1

Here is my simple entry this week


Quote
Gilded Reef
$7
Victory
7%
-
When you gain this, each other player may gain a Gold onto their deck.
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binbag420

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2022, 07:02:17 pm »
+2





An heirloom.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2022, 03:31:16 am by binbag420 »
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Holger

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2022, 03:25:21 am »
+2



Quote
Mad Alchemist - $4
Action
If you have Toxic Vapors, you may put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat, for +4 Cards and +1 Action.
----
When you gain this, take Toxic Vapors.

Quote
Toxic Vapors
State
When scoring, -1% per 2 cards you have on your Tavern mat (round up).

A draw 2 that can put a card from hand onto your Tavern mat to be non-terminal and draw 2 more cards. The catch is that everyone starts with the Toxic Vapors state, which makes players lose VP based on how many cards are on their Tavern mat. Toxic Vapors being a State made the most sense. I had a design without the State, but it was a lot of reading and it multiplied the VP lost by how many Mad Alchemists you had, which was not what I wanted. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Changed Toxic Vapors to penalize more aggressively.  Mad Alchemist now plays more like Stables and requires you to have Toxic Vapors to function. Players now only take Toxic Vapors when they gain a Mad Alchemist. These changes should nerf Mad Alchemist and prevent hosing other cards that use the Tavern mat. The draw 4 cards may still be too good, but I want the card to be tempting. Should this be changed to just daw 3 cards? Feedback is appreciates.
Thanks to scott_pilgrim, 4est, and LibraryAdventurer

Old Version(s)


My feedback: I would certainly reduce the draw to +3 cards, and probably even to +2 cards - a lab that pseudo-trashes is still very good at $4 (compare e.g. with Junk Dealer at $5, or Spice Merchant which is limited to trashing Coppers), and the penalty of -0.5 VP per exiled card is still mild enough to be worth it. E.g. you only get a net -2VP from exiling all starting cards, and you can green much earlier with the ability to get "5.5 VP" Provinces out of your deck.
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lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2022, 05:19:53 am »
+3

Slum City $4
action
+2 actions
+2 cards
---
Can't play any treasures while this is in play


I think this is to extreme, but I couldn't think of an better way.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2022, 05:27:34 am by lompeluiten »
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sumrex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2022, 09:23:38 am »
0

Slum City $4
action
+2 actions
+2 cards
---
Can't play any treasures while this is in play


I think this is to extreme, but I couldn't think of an better way.

Nah, tactician  has basically the same downside. People will make it work.
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Gamer3000

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2022, 06:09:28 pm »
+6

Contest closed

Here are the submissions I have received:

Eldritch Dealer (Builder_Roberts)
Night Market (Augie279)
Blood Ruby (nyxfulloftricks)
Landlord (X-tra)
City of Gold (4est)
Freshman (xyz123)
Runaway (emtzalex)
The Gate (sumrex)
Corrupt City (Commodore Chuckles)
Crumbling City (NoMoreFun)
Storebox (majiponi)
Sombrero (faust)
Virus Lab (MrHiTech)
Icy Venture (LibraryAdventurer)
Affair (exfret)
IlstrawberrySeed’s Card
Swineherd (D782802859)
Treasure Island (Udzu)
Mad Alchemist (Xen3k)
Clothier (AJL828)
Gilded Reef (arowdok)
Serf (binbag420)
Slum City (lompeluiten)

If I missed your card, please let me know as soon as possible. I will attempt to get the results in sometime over the weekend.
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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2022, 07:45:56 pm »
+2

Contest closed

Here are the submissions I have received:

Eldritch Dealer (Builder_Roberts)
Night Market (Augie279)
Blood Ruby (nyxfulloftricks)
Landlord (X-tra)
City of Gold (4est)
Freshman (xyz123)
Runaway (emtzalex)
The Gate (sumrex)
Corrupt City (Commodore Chuckles)
Crumbling City (NoMoreFun)
Storebox (majiponi)
Sombrero (faust)
Virus Lab (MrHiTech)
Icy Venture (LibraryAdventurer)
Affair (exfret)
IlstrawberrySeed’s Card
Swineherd (D782802859)
Treasure Island (Udzu)
Mad Alchemist (Xen3k)
Clothier (AJL828)
Gilded Reef (arowdok)
Serf (binbag420)
Slum City (lompeluiten)

If I missed your card, please let me know as soon as possible. I will attempt to get the results in sometime over the weekend.

YOU FORGOT JACK IN THE BOX OF ALL TRADES, BUSINESS, PROFESSIONS, SKILLS, TALENTS AND CRAFTS!!!

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MrHiTech

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2022, 09:37:42 pm »
+1

Contest closed

Here are the submissions I have received:

Eldritch Dealer (Builder_Roberts)
Night Market (Augie279)
Blood Ruby (nyxfulloftricks)
Landlord (X-tra)
City of Gold (4est)
Freshman (xyz123)
Runaway (emtzalex)
The Gate (sumrex)
Corrupt City (Commodore Chuckles)
Crumbling City (NoMoreFun)
Storebox (majiponi)
Sombrero (faust)
Virus Lab (MrHiTech)
Icy Venture (LibraryAdventurer)
Affair (exfret)
IlstrawberrySeed’s Card
Swineherd (D782802859)
Treasure Island (Udzu)
Mad Alchemist (Xen3k)
Clothier (AJL828)
Gilded Reef (arowdok)
Serf (binbag420)
Slum City (lompeluiten)

If I missed your card, please let me know as soon as possible. I will attempt to get the results in sometime over the weekend.



Quote
Virus Lab - $3 - Action

+2 Cards
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. If you revealed any Curses, gain a Curse.
-
When you gain this, gain a Curse to the top of your deck.

In games without a possibility to get rid of the Curses, this is worse than a do-nothing cantrip. (The lab's card draw and the when-gain curse cancel each other out over each shuffle, except for the -1VP, and you will likely not be able to play Virus Lab or get further curses several times).

In the more common case where you can trash curses, Virus Lab may be worth buying, but you still risk a Rats-like cascade of Curses if you're unlucky to draw a Curse from playing Virus Lab itself.

Yeah. Don't bother judging this. I don't have time to make it better.

PLEASE DON'T WASTE TIME JUDGING THIS



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Gamer3000

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2022, 10:23:58 pm »
+6

Results

Eldritch Dealer (Builder_Roberts)
A simple card that is still rich in decision making. It would be interesting to compare how often this would be gained through the cursing option vs. through the more expensive option. Definitely a strong contender.

Night Market (Augie279)
Comparison to Fortune is very apt. The on-gain restriction and penalty is an interesting way to ensure this doesn’t get out of hand too early on. You’re probably not likely to pick up more than one of these, but it looks fun to play around.

Blood Ruby (nyxfulloftricks)
This should read, ‘When you gain’. Other than that, I think it’s a perfectly fine card. Triple playing a treasure isn’t the most exciting ability, but it could definitely work if you already have big treasures.

Landlord (X-tra)
Very interesting card with a possibly game-changing interaction with Estates. I could see this being a bit swingy as to whether or not you draw them with one of your Estates, but there are plenty of swingy cards that are nonetheless really enjoyable to play with. This looks like one of them.

City of Gold (4est)
I enjoy alt-VP cards, and this looks that something you could build a deck around. The on-gain penalty has a really interesting interaction with the rest of the card, but I wonder if it might be slightly too penalizing.

Freshman (xyz123)
I like this. Probably won’t see play without Villages or another source of Villagers, but that’s certainly not a deal-breaker. I really like the idea of a terminal card giving other players Villagers on gain. Discard your hand cards aren’t typically my favorite, but this is a neat card.

Runaway (emtzalex)
As you mentioned, it can be quite difficult to design a Fugitive variant, though I think you’ve managed to do a pretty good job here. I do wonder if this might be a bit on the weaker side, especially compared to something like Old Map. Have you considered making it so Out in the Cold only causes you to discard 1 extra card?

The Gate (sumrex)
Gate Guardian seems especially crippling for a 4-cost non-terminal Gold, essentially shutting out any sort of card draw. Limiting Gate Guardian to only preventing the playing of future actions could make this playable. As is, this is pretty much exclusively playable in a Big Money game.

Corrupt City (Commodore Chuckles)
Being able to see the Ruins that will be gained with this makes for some interesting decisions. This will play significantly differently based on the cards available in the Kingdom (trashers, +Buy, etc.). It could definitely be really strong, but I don’t think it’s broken.

Crumbling City (NoMoreFun)
Another city! I really like this idea. A powerful card that only costs $3… but can disappear en masse if you get too greedy. The added buy makes it easier to restock on them if you find yourself about to lose a number of them.

Storebox (majiponi)
A Chapel that provides coin will almost always be a must-buy at $3. Unfortunately, the penalty here seems rather insignificant since your opponents will almost certainly be mass trashing with their own Storebox. Allowing your opponents to trash any number of cards on gain could be a more consequential drawback.

Sombrero (faust)
Cute lab variant. This looks like something that could’ve appeared in the Base game to teach new players the importance of shuffling and deck control. Probably the simplest submission this week. Also one of my favorites.

Icy Venture (LibraryAdventurer)
Definitely stronger than Venture, but Venture was weak and has been removed, so I don’t think it’s a problem. It might still need to cost $6, but that would need playtesting to confirm. The drawback is a bit wordy and less consequential now that Treasures are played at the start of your next turn, rather than immediately. Best way to fix the wordiness is probably to add “other than Icy Venture”, though, as others have mentioned, that would have invalidated the card.

Affair (exfret)
This is a really cool Workshop variant. Gives some card draw, but exiles itself if you don’t use its ability to gain more copies of it. Its self-exiling effect may actually be helpful in thinning out your deck late game, but I think it’s still valid to consider this a “drawback”.

IlstrawberrySeed’s Card
This will generally gain you at least one Copper every time it’s played. Add on the Copper you get when you gain the card, and this seems oppressively junky, especially in multiples. The rest of the card is certainly very strong, but I’m not sure if it’s sustainable without some serious trashing available.

Swineherd (D782802859)
I like the idea of this; the on-gain effect is most punishing when you have a lot of junk in your hand, but the card itself is most useful when you have junk it can get rid of. An interesting dilemma! I worry that the card may be slightly weak, but I don’t think it’s unreasonably so.

Treasure Island (Udzu)
This is really neat pseudo-trasher. It can help clean out some Coppers and, once that’s done, can give a one-time burst of coins. There are cards that can synergize with Capital’s discard penalty, but I love how this card has a built in ability to negate its debt gain.

Mad Alchemist (Xen3k)
Old version was definitely busted, but I think you’ve managed to make it workable. Still a very strong card for $4 (you could get away with pricing this at $5). It’s not quite as good with strong trashers in the Kingdom, but unless you’re planning to make use of the Tavern mat, this will be in almost every deck.

Clothier (AJL828)
This looks like a solid card. I don’t know how often the restriction will be consequential, since you will likely only be using the card for Gold gain near the end of the game, but it’s an interesting drawback nonetheless.

Gilded Reef (arowdok)
A province that is slightly cheaper and gives slightly more VP at the cost of letting your opponents topdeck a Gold. Biggest thing to remember is that the game won't end when these run out. Dominion doesn't currently have any Kingdom cards that give more VP than Provinces. I worry this could drag the game out past its welcome, but I think it'd be worth playtesting to see.

Serf/Medley (binbag420)
These seem rather weak, though I could see Serf shining in very specific circumstances. As is, Medley doesn't really seem worth trashing, despite its $6 cost. I'd probably lower its cost a bit and try making it only gain 1 (maybe 2?) Coppers on trash.

Slum City (lompeluiten)
So many cities this week! I agree that this is probably a bit restrictive, but I think it could be pretty easily fixed.  You’re only going to buy this once you have several coin producing actions, by which point you can likely afford more expensive cards, making a cheap Lost City less appealing. I’d recommend making this card stronger and more expensive to justify buying it once you can work around the restriction.



Runners-up: Eldritch Dealer (Builder_Roberts), Landlord (X-tra), Sombrero (faust), Affair (exfret), Treasure Island (Udzu)

Winner: Crumbling City (NoMoreFun)
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Builder_Roberts

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2022, 12:09:14 am »
+1

runner up? nice!

congrats to NMF!
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Just living a life, you know?
All of the Best cards I've made:http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21287.0

NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2022, 05:00:51 pm »
+1

Thank you for judging! New contest will be up within 24 hours.
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