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Author Topic: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards  (Read 3918 times)

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MrHiTech

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2022, 05:48:39 pm »
0



I'm changing this last minute to +$4 on trigger btw
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2022, 06:05:21 pm »
+4

Contest Closed!!!


Here are the entries I'm going to judge:

Grand Workshop by NoMoreFun
Librarian by X-tra
Golden Fish by Xen3k
Colleague by Erick648
Toll Bridge by Dubdubdubdub
Trading House by Joxeft
Credit by MrHiTech

Please let me know if I missed any. I'll try to get what I can done tonight. I'm travelling tomorrow but hopefully can finish when I get home.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 06:08:38 pm by emtzalex »
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MrHiTech

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2022, 09:52:15 pm »
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When you play the treasures, you also get the effects of the treasures, right?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2022, 02:36:30 pm »
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When you play the treasures, you also get the effects of the treasures, right?

Yes. I playtested this with X-tra and that's definitely the case.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2022, 01:10:21 pm »
+4



Fan Card Mechanic Contest #42: Activation Cards



Sorry for the delay in judging, I got majorly sidetracked with a huge project at work. Here it is:







Grand Workshop
Action/Activation - $4
This turn, when you gain a card, you may put it onto your deck.
______________
When you trigger this, gain a card costing up to $5.



Grand Workshop by NoMoreFun

A power gainer, it lets you gain a card costing up to $5, but it's doubly terminal (you have to spend 2 Actions to do it). If you can spend both Actions on one turn, it will also let you gain that card onto your deck. Otherwise, you'll have to be satisfied with topdecking whatever you buy the first turn GM is played.

This is a nice implementation of one useful design space for Activation cards--they can allow for an underpriced effect (here, a $4 card that can gain $5 cards). This is because (1) you will always have to spend 2 Actions to get it, and (2) in many cases, you will have to wait another turn (if you have to Activate it later). An obvious comp here is Importer, which has the same gaining ability for $3. While Importer only uses one Action, it always makes you wait a turn (which you might describe as having a higher floor but a lower ceiling). Thus, I think it's reasonably priced.

This is certainly a solid entry.








Quote from: Librarian
Librarian • $5 • Action - Activation
Draw up to 7 cards in hand, then discard 2 cards.

When you trigger this, play any number of Treasures from your hand for +$1 each.



Librarian by X-tra

Librarian is an Action - Activation with two separate, terminal effects: a sifting draw-to-x and what is effectively a terminal Bank--giving you $1 less since it doesn't count itself, but also taking .

By itself, the on-play effect would be too weak at $5. It is (all but) strictly worse than Library (which I presume is what the card's name references), and from a 5 card hand, has the same effect as Forum, but is terminal, at the same price. A dtx-then-discard is especially unfortunate, as it makes the effect potentially negative when you play it with too many cards in hand (as opposed to regular dtx, which just has no effect). That's especially tough on an Activation card, which needs to be played to be triggered. That said, in the right deck a terminal forum wouldn't be the worst card. The terminal Bank is probably about right at $5.

The reason the card works (and the thing I really like about it) is that the two effects synergize, in both directions, giving you a solid benefit if you can get extra Actions. If you play then trigger, you are in a better position to fill your hand with Treasure cards to enhance the trigger bonus. If you trigger one then play another, you can take the Treasures out of your hand to enhance the dtx.








Quote
Golden Fish - $3
Treasure - Activation
+1 Coffers
----
When you trigger this, if you have 7 or more cards in hand, discard down to 3 cards in hand and exchange this for a Wish. Otherwise, draw until you have 6 cards in hand.



Golden Fish by Xen3k

This is an interesting design. A Treasure - Activation, on play, it gives a single Coffers, but when triggered gives a certain bonus -- if you have 7 or more cards, you discard down to 3 and exchange GF for a Wish; otherwise, you draw up to 6 cards.

At first blush, this reminded me of a game in which Leprechaun was set aside with Way of the Mouse. My initial thought was that Leprechaun is a card I almost never buy, so I wasn't likely to use it. But I quickly realized that I was wrong, because (given the presence of useful engine components), it was very easy to get 6 cards in play and then be able to play the 7th (which could be any card) using the Way. I didn't have to have the Leprechaun when that happened, and it wasn't sitting in my deck, getting in the way, the rest of the time. (This also works well with Command cards). Something similar is true with Activation cards. You don't have to worry about getting enough cards and then playing GF from your hand, which would both require 8 cards and having this card in the way.

I still somewhat feel this way, but it's a bit more complicated than that. To trigger GF's Wish-gaining power, you need to get your hand size up to 7 non-terminally. That either means Lab variants, a combo of terminal draw and villages, or some sort of start-of-turn drawing (Hireling, Sinister Plot, etc.). A lot of games don't have that, and without it, GF the alternative triggering ability is relatively weak. From a 5 card hand it's a Moat, so it seems like it would be pretty unbuyable absent either serious handsize attacks or disappearing money/villages. It does go especially well with Festival and (most fittingly) Fishing Village. Without those it's strictly worse that Ducat on-play (without Ducat's on-gain bonus) and the same as a Moat on-trigger (without Moat's reaction), but more expensive than both of them.

What I initially thought was too strong might, in retrospect, be too weak. It would be nice if it could at least combine with villages to hit the target if you trigger multiple copies. You could do this by either making the first ability trigger at 6, by making the other ability draw to 7, or by giving +1 Card if a player has exactly 6 when it's triggered.









Quote
Colleague
$3 Action - Activation
Discard 2 cards.

When you trigger this, +3 Cards and +1 Action.



Colleague by Erick648

Colleague terminally discards 2 cards from your hand on play, while acting as a triple lab when triggered. It's a kind of a deconstructed Forum, giving you you the penalty first and the bonus later (or a reverse Tide Pools). The fact that you get the drawback first, and that you have to spend one more Action, makes Colleague weaker than both of those cards. On the other hand, the fact that you can stockpile them in play has the potential to allow a player to build up a powerful turn.

Terminally discarding 2 cards is rough. From a 5 card hand, that leaves you with just 2 cards. In the absence of a solid $2 purchase, that makes opening with Colleague a questionable proposition. One strategy would be to get a couple of these and try to chain them, triggering one when you have the other in hand (or are pretty sure you will draw it). This turns them into an eventually-terminal Forum, but one which lets you play non-terminal cards (from the full hand) before spending the second action and discarding. You could also try to build an engine with villages and draw to x cards around this. It also works well with effects that let you play Actions at unusual times (Gamble, Innovation, City State, Crystal Ball), potentially letting you take the discard after you've played all the cards you want from your hand.

While the penalty-on-play, bonus-on-trigger helps avoid making this card too powerful with Command cards, it does create an issue with Ways (which, it's worth noting, didn't exist at the time LastFootnote came up with the idea). Except Horse, Turtle, and Chameleon, any of the other ways allow you to put Colleague into play at a significantly reduced cost. Some of them (Pig, Mule, Ox) make the card absurdly strong.

This creates a general problem with penalty-on-play cards. One solution would be to prohibit the use of Ways (but, generally, I don't care for that). An alternative would be to make the trigger ability dependent on having played the card regularly, probably through the use of tokens. For example, Colleague could say:

Quote

Discard 2 cards. Add 3 tokens here.

When you trigger this, +1 Action and remove the tokens for +1 Card each.

Once you solve the Ways problem, this has the potential to be a really fun and interesting card.








Quote
Toll Bridge • $5 • Action - Activation
+1 Action
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less on your turns.
At the start of your turn, if this is in play, draw a card, then discard a non-Victory card.

When you trigger this, +1 Buy, +$1



Toll Bridge by Dubdubdubdub

Toll Bridge is a Bridge variant. This is our first non-terminal Action - Activation, which means one option will always be to play then immediately trigger this. If you do, it has the exact same effect as Bridge. However, you can take the discounting and wait for the Buy and Coin. If you just wait until later in the turn, you can use non-terminal gainers (like [conditionally] Ironworks and Carpenter) to get a $5 card. You can also play multiple copies without a village, although you can only trigger one per turn.

If you leave TB in play beyond the first turn, there is a sort-of penalty, requiring the player to draw a card, then discard a non-Victory card. The only time this is actually harmful is if a player draws a Victory card; otherwise, they can just discard the card they drew (with a couple of edge case exceptions, like triggering an unwanted shuffle or having to lose one of the 6+ Alchemists/Horses you piled onto your deck). Until they start greening, that is pretty unlikely, and even less so with Shelters and/or good deck thinning. When they don't draw a Victory card, it's actually a benefit, allowing them to sift their weakest non-Victory card.

That being said, if you have too many TBs in play, you will (in most cases) eventually start to see Victory cards, and if you're not careful they could completely overtake your hand. Without villages (and the ability to play them), players also can't trigger a mega-turn by triggering them all at once.

This at least slightly (but only slightly) mitigates the risk of a player trying to put 8 of these in play and just gaining Provinces without the need to have any useful cards. But I do worry that these can function as a single-card Bridge - Royal Carriage combo. Even with 3 starting Estates still in your deck, you won't get totally flooded with Victory cards in your hand. This means that you have a fairly strong choice as to what those two cards are. With some +Buy you can accelerate gaining a bunch of these, and if your opponent isn't fighting you for the pile, it might not take that long to get 8. I fell like this might become the only viable strategy in a lot of games. This is further exacerbated by cards like Shephard, Mill, and Nobles (and Inheritance). While

In terms of copy editing, after "non-Victory cards" it should say "(or reveal that you can't)." I also think that, at least the "At the start of your turn..." should be below the horizontal line. Technically, the "While this is in play..." should be as well, although official cards have mostly (if not entirely) been modified to change language so it's not like that.









Trading House - Action - Activation - Cost: 3

+2 Cards
+1 Action
-
When you trigger this, discard it.




Trading House by Joxeft

Another non-terminal Action, Trading House is a Lab on play, but (as an Activation card) it won't leave play until it's triggered, which doesn't give an additional bonus, just discards it. The net effect, (having to spent 2 Actions to get +2 Cards and +1 Action) is a Moat (that gets discarded on-play).

This is way too powerful. At a minimum, it's a single slap Lab which you could buy only copy of to put in a deck without any terminal cards, and always be able to trigger it when you're done playing Actions. Even if you had one terminal card (like a trasher), you could still put it in and almost always be able to trigger it right away, and if not, do so the next turn. That should cost at least $4.

But it gets much stronger in any engine. The reason a Moat is so much weaker (and therefor so much cheaper) than a Lab is that the two cards you draw with a Moat are (unless you've played a village) drawn dead. If you have a Moat and a village in your deck, you have to play the village first in order to use both of them. If the Moat draws the village, it draws it dead. With TH, you can get the village later, and still be able to play and trigger two copies of TH.

This would be enough to mean that it should cost more than $3 even if it did nothing when you triggered it. But it doesn't. It discards itself, which means it can be used again. One of the limits on powerful action cards/combos in Dominion is that there are a finite number of copies, and (with rare exceptions) each one can only be played once per turn. With TH, it you can play them multiple times, as long as you have enough Actions and can time a shuffle well. At the extreme, with the +1 Action token (or Champion) you can play and trigger these endlessly, cycling them back into your deck. Then, if you manage to draw your deck, you can play all of them again, trigger them into your discard, then play a card which gives you +1 Card, putting all but one of them onto your deck the following turn. Even without an unlimited number of plays, in a strong engine you could very realistically be getting these multiple times a turn.

I think you had a good idea, but the execution is busted. I'd probably suggest pricing it at $4 and making it do something else when you trigger it.









Quote
Credit • $4 • Treasure - Activation
$1
+1 buy

When you trigger this, +$4 and you may reveal a Gold from your hand. If you didn't, trash this.




Credit by MrHiTech

Credit is a Treasure - Activation which is a Pouch on-play, and when triggered is an Animal Fair that self-trashes unless a player has a Gold in hand. Because it's a Treasure, it's (generally) not possible to use the +Buy along with extra $4 you get from that card.

There are a few different ways I could see using this. The most obvious is that the $4 from the trigger plus the $3 from the Gold means that if any other card in a players hand produces $, they'll have enough for a Province. I could certainly see in mid-game, when you've lost your enthusiasm for Silver, buying a Credit on a $4 or $5 and saving it until you start greening. I could also see using these as one-shots to reliably hit $6 early on (as you will never have less than $2 in hand barring a Curser). The case for either of those is enhanced significantly by a gainer. And getting multiple copies of them increases your chances of Activating one and playing another for the +Buy.

If anything, this might be a little too strong. But it's a fun idea and a solid entry.

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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2022, 01:14:30 pm »
+1


Fan Card Mechanic Contest #42: Activation Cards


The Results

Thanks to everyone who participated. Here are the results:

Honorable Mentions:

Colleague by Erick648

Credit by MrHiTech

Second Place:

Grand Workshop by NoMoreFun



Winner:

Librarian by X-tra
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 12:42:07 pm by emtzalex »
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BryGuy

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2022, 04:23:37 pm »
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maybe i misunderstand, but it seams like "Activation" to too similar to "Reserve". I know they were developed before Reserve, but if i were to print any, i'd just make them Reserve cards.

emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2022, 04:55:54 pm »
+2

maybe i misunderstand, but it seams like "Activation" to too similar to "Reserve". I know they were developed before Reserve, but if i were to print any, i'd just make them Reserve cards.

There are three functional difference between Reserve cards and Activation cards:
  • Triggering an Activation card costs an Action, while calling a Reserve card does not.
  • Calling a Reserve card is more like using a Reaction, in that it happens at a specific time as directed by the card itself. Triggering an Activation card is like playing an Action, in that it occurs during your Action phase and the card doesn't need to tell you that (#1 tracks with those two things as well).
  • Activation cards stay in play while Reserve cards go onto your Tavern mat.
I think (1) and (2) are enough of a reason to justify a different mechanic (just as there is a benefit from having both plain Actions and Reactions). But (3) is pretty nominal, and if I were to overhaul the mechanic I'd probably use the same tan background as Reserve cards and add "Put this on your Tavern mat" to each card's on-play. (This would also solve the Ways issue raised by Erick648's Colleague.)
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lompeluiten

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2022, 11:02:19 am »
0

When I read it without the text I tought:
Whenever X happens, now you can do Y. That also would be neat. In an game with this, whenever you gain an gold, you also gain an copper.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2022, 11:25:41 am »
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I think (1) and (2) are enough of a reason to justify a different mechanic (just as there is a benefit from having both plain Actions and Reactions). But (3) is pretty nominal, and if I were to overhaul the mechanic I'd probably use the same tan background as Reserve cards and add "Put this on your Tavern mat" to each card's on-play. (This would also solve the Ways issue raised by Erick648's Colleague.)

Resolving the Ways issue is a nice bonus, but I'm curious what text you'd put on the bottom of every such card in order to make them Reserves.

maybe i misunderstand, but it seams like "Activation" to too similar to "Reserve". I know they were developed before Reserve, but if i were to print any, i'd just make them Reserve cards.

When Reserve cards were first created, I gave up on Activation cards for this reason. But when I came back to them and tested a bunch of them, it turns out they do not play at all similarly.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2022, 01:05:08 pm »
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I think (1) and (2) are enough of a reason to justify a different mechanic (just as there is a benefit from having both plain Actions and Reactions). But (3) is pretty nominal, and if I were to overhaul the mechanic I'd probably use the same tan background as Reserve cards and add "Put this on your Tavern mat" to each card's on-play. (This would also solve the Ways issue raised by Erick648's Colleague.)

Resolving the Ways issue is a nice bonus, but I'm curious what text you'd put on the bottom of every such card in order to make them Reserves.

I'd still call them "Activation" cards, which is a perfectly fine name for a card type (although when I'm thinking of new card types, one impulse I have is to pick a super-short name so 3-type cards don't make the text teeny tiny). The rule for Activation cards would be that when one is on your Tavern mat, during your Action phase you can spend an Action to trigger it, which puts it into play and resolves its on-trigger effect.

I wonder if it's sort of an inefficiency of official Dominion that there's only ever one type for each special card color. Duration cards are great, and super versatile (as evidenced by their appearance in the vast majority of expansions), but could there be a different mechanic that also stays in play beyond the turn on which you play it? (Maybe one that stayed in play for a fixed number of turns). And if it also had an orange border, would that be too confusing? I think maybe not.
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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 42: Activation Cards
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2022, 01:12:45 pm »
+2

I think it would be confusing to have one color for multiple types.
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