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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards  (Read 4922 times)

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Chappy7

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2022, 12:48:51 pm »
+1



It's like a Mine, but backwards, and kinda different.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2022, 12:55:19 pm »
+1

My Submission:



Quote
Amphitheater ē $5 ē Action
+3 Cards
Discard a card. If it was an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +1 Buy
Curse, discard a card
Gold, +$1

Since the discarding is mandatory, this honestly looks weaker than vanilla Smithy imo.

Smithy is always terminal. In a deck with some Smithies and some villages, you always have to play a village before playing a Smithy (and play one village per Smithy, unless it's a Bustling Village) or else the Smithy is terminal and any Action cards you draw (or other Smithies you have in hand) are dead cards. In a Kingdom with no village (or equivalent), Smithy is always terminal, and always draws not only other Smithies, but all other Action cars (including Peddler variants, trashers, gainers, etc.) dead. Amphitheater gives you options. If you've played some villages, you can discard an Estate or a Copper (with a +Buy bonus). But if you need the Action (and have at least 2 Action cards) you can discard one and keep going.

It effectively lets you retroactively play one of your Action cards using Way of the Ox. While WotO is generally not that great, it tends to shine in Kingdoms with terminal draw cards, especially when there aren't villages. And, it's potentially better than WotO, because if you have a good engine going, you can get the discarded card back and still play it (especially if you're near the shuffle).


I donít think that it is weaker, ActionStables alone is probably a weakish $4 and this has more options. But it is definitely no $5 and I think it needs a Victory card option instead of the Gold option which really does nothing (if you got a Silver, you discard the Silver or Copper anyway; it only matters in the rare situation of only Golds).

While a literal ActionStables (e.g. an Action that said "You may discard an Action card, for +3 Cards and +1 Action.") would be a generally weakish $4, this isn't that. If a card said "+3 Cards. Discard a card. If it was a Treasure, +1 Action." It would be massively better than Stables for several reasons. First, by drawing before you discard, you get to choose the discarded card from 7 rather than 4 cards (if played from a 5 card hand). More choices nearly doubles the chance that you will get to discard what you want, and don't end up discarding a Silver to draw a Copper (making you wish you had a Lab instead). It also doesn't require you to discard a Treasure. If you don't need the +Action you can discard a dead card instead. This also avoids the non-zero risk of getting a Stables in a hand with no Treasures and no non-terminal draw cards, making Stables itself a dead card. And, you get to make that decision with the full knowledge of what is being drawn. Thus, this design is far better than Stables.

Obviously, that isn't this, and discarding an Action card is worse than discarding a Treasure. Players start each game (absent Heirlooms) with seven little pieces of junk in the form of Coppers. Unless there's really good trashing, at least some will tend to stick around for use by Stables. By contrast, Action cards almost always need to be actively gained by a player (at some opportunity cost). Thus, there are many cards/landscapes that presume having an Action card is good, and giving it up is a significant cost (e.g. Witch's Hut, Graverobber, Haunted Mirror, Advance, Arena, etc.). However, all of the benefits the draw-then-discard setup provides apply as much if not more to Amphitheater.

By drawing before discarding, players playing Amphitheater with one Action left know whether they have two Action cards that would compel them to discard one to play the other. They also know what the two cards are, and can choose which of the two is better to discard. If they're done playing Action cards, they also have their full payload in front of them to decide whether to discard a dead card for no bonus or trade some of their payload (hopefully a Copper) for a Buy--creating a sort of (potentially discounted) Travelling Fair effect (without the topdecking). And a player never needs an additional Action (or any specific card) to play Amphitheater, which will can always be played for a net +1 Card benefit (unless you end up with a hand that is literally only Curses, in which case you have much bigger problems).

As for the +$1 bonus from the Gold not making much of a difference, while that is generally true, in a really good engine a player may be in the position to discard a Gold (1) not needing the +1 Action because they played a village and (2) being reasonably certain that they will ultimately draw their whole deck, getting the Gold back while also having gotten the +$1 and +1 Buy bonus.

Put another way, I don't think the presence of some of its most obvious comparators (Lab, Stables, Smithy) in a Kingdom would lead a player to forego getting Amphitheater. You might want Labs initially, but if you had a solid engine going (especially if there were villages) the sifting and additional choices on-play that Amphitheater offers would lead you to want to add it as an engine component. The same is true with Stables, especially if the ratio of Actions to Treasures started risking a Stables with no Treasure. Or, consider Hamlet. Individually, none of its options on-play are very good: a sifting disappearing Copper; a sifting non-terminal Ruined Market; a net +1 Action, +1 Buy, -2 Cards (with sifting); or a cantrip (which is literally the same as nothing). But the flexibility to choose when you play it makes it a useful card in many decks. Thus, while a true ActionStables would be pretty weak, the multitude of options it provides makes Amphitheater (imo) a solid $5 in most Kingdoms.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2022, 02:08:24 pm »
+4

This is a $4 and far from $5 strength.

It is mainly useful as mandatory ActionStables which is a weak $4. That it draws before discarding is nice for consistency but you are still discarding the good stuff.


The other options are weaker than Smithy. A Smithy that converts the Coin of a Copper into an extra Buy? Well, can be useful. Discarding Curses hurts, discarding green is no option (although it should be if you want this to become a $5) and discarding Gold is only useful in very rare cases.

The option to not use this as ActionStables but as Smithy- (net drawing 1 and getting an extra Buy is weaker than Smithy) donít push this into $5 territory.

Iíd try this with the option to discard green for a Horse or an extra card and IĎd get rid of the Curse and Gold options to give this Iron-family clarity and symmetry. Then it would be a $5 (albeit likely still weaker than Lab and other $5 Lab variants).

The Curse and Gold options are necessary for the card to qualify for the contest. That said, if you have to add unnecessary features just to make it qualify, it's probably not a great fit for the contest imo.
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CaptainReklaw

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2022, 01:18:26 am »
0

Moray


Worth 1 VP per 2 coppers
Heirloom: Silver
$7 Victory

Like Feodum and Counting house, this card will alternate between a powerhouse, and useless. But unlike those cards this Moray will always had a large impact on the start of each game by replacing one of the starting coppers with a silver.

I fear this will only be a powerhouse with Beggar (and possibly Banquet), and be useless at least 95% of the time.
In the absence of Beggar, I'd try this at $4, so it would at least be a cheaper Duchy (with the potential to get extra VPs from late-game copper buys) in games where you can't trash coppers. You already need to buy three Morays to get the same 15 VP with 10 coppers that Fountain gives you for free.

Replacing a starting Copper by Silver is problematic because a 5/3 opening is usually much stronger than a 4/4 opening. And Moray would be stronger without an Heirloom attached...

Let me explain my logic here: In any game with extra buys (ex: any game with market or workers village) it is insanely easy to mass coppers at the end of the game because coppers have zero cost. 1 VP per 2 zero cost cards can be heavy. In games without extra buys or copper gaining cards, it's basically useless. That is why it has an heirloom so it always has a meaningful and exciting impact on the game. In games with extra buys, and you didn't trash your starting coppers it'll be easy to make the Moray worth more than a province.

I understand the opening could be unfair, but it puts a nice twist that I think is fun. Dominion has always had an element of luck, that being said I have whined when my friend gets a 5/2 start with certain kingdom cards.

Moderator: Sorry if having silver as an heirloom seemed cheeky, but I always thought starting with a silver would be interesting. (We've tried giving my nephew a starting silver to give him a chance: he still lost horribly.)
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2022, 09:28:07 pm »
+4

24 hour warning

These are the submissions I have so far. Please let me know if I missed yours:

Pot of Gold by Augie279
Midas by majiponi
Offering by Gamer3000
Lure by Builder_Roberts
Burglar by Gubump
Crone by Marpharos
Homestead by segura
Tyranny by X-tra
Ledger by nyxfulloftricks
Financier by kru5h
Lycantrope by n_sanity
Old City by J410
Coin Press by Xen3k
Crook by 4est
Sprite by spineflu
Copper Mine by xyz123
Beachcombers by Dubdubdubdub
Gilders Guild by NoMoreFun
Amphitheater by emtzalex
Moray by CaptainReklaw
Forest Village by AJL828
Decay by Chappy7
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Joxeft

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2022, 10:21:07 pm »
+1

Writer
Action - Cost:4
Trash any number of coppers from your hand, then gain a Silver per 2 cards trashed this way (rounded up).
Feedback is appreciated.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 09:05:59 am by Joxeft »
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Augie279

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2022, 10:48:58 pm »
+4

Writer
Action - Cost:4
Trash any number of cards from your hand, then gain then half that many silvers.

Feedback is appreciated.

Should probably be reworded to match Bishop [Trash any number of cards from your hand, then gain a Silver per 2 cards trashed this way (rounded down/up).]

Edit: ...Wait, this only mentions one base card (Silver) so it wouldn't be eligible for this anyway.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2022, 10:51:01 pm by Augie279 »
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arowdok

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2022, 11:13:56 pm »
+3

Here is my entry

Quote
Serenity
$10
Event
You may trash a Province, a Duchy, and an Estate from your hand for +20%.
Just to be clear the player must trash all 3 cards to get the +20%. This card is a fun quest for players to accomplish. Like Colonies and the Events Alliance and Dominate or any powerful Green card pile, this new card should reward players to go big and make a strong engine decks that can draw through Green cards and double their score. I really enjoy this idea as many slow engine decks get running then find their is not enough Green card left in the supply to catch up and this presents a method to help catch up. But does not stale out the game as player still need to collect this Green cards from the supply pushing the game toward an end state, except when they card pull from the trash but that feels a bit narrow.

Here are my other cards I made this week but they felt not as great but others might enjoy using them or improving on them later. I really enjoyed this contest as many cards want to reward players with game objects and Base cards are a great thing to reference as every game uses them and players don't have to fish out other piles.


Quote
Prestige
$5
Treasure
+1 Buy
+1 Coffers
This turn, when you gain an Estate, gain a Gold onto your deck.
This turn, when you gain a Duchy, Queue a Silver and a Copper from the Supply.
This turn, when you gain a Province, you may Exile it.
I tried to make a card that mentions the 6 common base cards and this card does a lot because of that. Frist, it is a treasure as it is not strong enough to be a terminal Action and being a Treasure saves space no having the +1 Action. Second, it gives a Coffers due +$1 how felt weak it that effect is and to reduce text size which saves spaces for the important bits. Third, the +1 Buy opens the door for multiple purchases of Green cards doubling this cards effectiveness. Fourth, the Estate bonus is mostly to get players decks started. Fifth the Duchy line requires the use of a Fan machinic with is linked below but should help Midrange Big money decks keep the money flowing but also Junking themselves up with low powered cards. Last the effect to Exile Provinces helps players Green earlier without much punishment other then playing this card with is a stop card and only generates +$1 money.
Also an easy reminder for Queue rules
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20894.msg875641#msg875641

Quote
Capital Spending
$3
Event
Choose one: Gain a Copper and Exile a Gold from the Supply; or Exile a Duchy from your hand to gain a Gold onto your deck.
This card does a few things, first the the majority of the card Camel is the early gain effect, as buying Camel or this new card rewards rushing multiple Golds. Second this card helps midrange Big money decks clean out Duchies and set up for a Province. Third if player Buys this a few times early for the Exiled Golds they can get $5 money to snag an early Duchy to help get to Gold instead of just hoping to get to $6 which a Camel start can make much harder.

Quote
Lofty Pursuits
$5
Project
At the start of your Buy phase, you may discard an Duchy to look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Gold from it and put it into your hand.
This card is like turning the 1st Duchy into a Harem like card.

Quote
Recover
$5
Event
Once per turn: +1 Buy. Look through your discard pile, reveal up to one of each of these cards from it: A Colony, a Province, a Duchy, an Estate, a Platinum, a Gold, a Silver, a Copper, and/or a Curse, and set them aside. If you did, then at the start of your next turn, put them into your hand.
This card does a lot and was the best card I could make that uses all 9 Base cards (except Potion). It is quite a long test box but feels like the effect is easy to understand and shouldn't need to much rereading.

Quote
Reduction
$3
Event
Trash a card from your hand. If it's anÖ
Copper, +2 Coffers
Estate, Gain 2 Horses
Otherwise, +2 Villagers
This card slowly cleans out the player's decks of start cards or other junk and gives some small rewards much like the action card Sacrifice.
Quote
?
$10
Event
Gain a Gold onto your deck. Gain a two Duchies.
This card reward players who hit $10 with the % of a Province and helps set up the next turn but the Double Duchies might start to hurt. Sorry no image this idea was scrapped before I made a mock up.

Quote
Trawling
$5
Action
Reveal the top 5 cards of your deck. From those cards, put a Copper, a Silver, a Gold and a different Treasure card into your hand. Discard the rest.
FAQ: This card can draw at most 1 Copper, 1 Silver, 1 Gold, and 1 other Treasure (such as a Potion or a Spices) but this last Treasure card cannot be a Copper, a Silver, or a Gold.
This card has the potential to draw a lot of money but is terminal and requires players to fill there deck with targets and get lucky.

Quote
Wellspring
$4
Action
Choose one: Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Copper, a Silver, and/or a Gold from it and put them into your hand or +1 Card and +1 Action.
This card has replacement mode because as with Counting House, it sucks far too much to draw this right after the shuffle.
This card has a very high ceiling to generate lots of money but may take a while to get working as the players must acquire the Treasures and a large enough deck for them to be in the discard pile reliably.

Quote
DI
$5
Action
+3 Cards then discard a card. If it was an...
Estate or Copper, +$1
Duchy or Silver, +1 Coffers
Province or Gold, gain a DI
Curse or Ruins, Exile it
This card was based on emtzalex's Amphitheater, which I liked but disliked the punishment for Discarding Curses. Also only mentioning Curse and Gold by name felt wrong and mostly tacked on it felt better to me to doubled down on references and pair them up to save space.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2022, 04:08:28 am »
+1

Writer
Action - Cost:4
Trash any number of cards from your hand, then gain then half that many silvers.

Feedback is appreciated.

As noted by another user above, this does not have two base cards in it, so would not qualify.
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binbag420

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2022, 05:43:40 am »
+1

Empire - Event

Cost: 8Debt

Move your empire token to a non-Victory supply pile costing up to $4.
ó
Setup: Place your Empire on the Curse pile. (When you gain a Province gain a card from the pile with your Empire token.)



An old event concept. not as centralising as it seems but pretty powerful. Helps to maintain an engine while greening, if ur willing to pay the price.
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Joxeft

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2022, 09:06:35 am »
0

Writer
Action - Cost:4
Trash any number of cards from your hand, then gain then half that many silvers.

Feedback is appreciated.

As noted by another user above, this does not have two base cards in it, so would not qualify.
Fixed, thank you.
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binbag420

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2022, 03:20:44 pm »
0

Quote
think this needs to be able to gain $5s. Workshopping while greening is not very impressive


Note that that the token starts on the Curse pile. Iíd buy this extremely often whenever i wanted to go for provinces. I donít want it to be a total autobuy anyway
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binbag420

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2022, 04:13:57 pm »
0

No? I didnít claim the reason it was good was because it hurt you. I just clarified it started on the curse pile since i thought you missed that since you were arguing it was too weak.

I donít think itís too automatic in games without cursers, sometimes you go for three-piles or alt VP or just green late enough that Empire isnít worth gaining. Ofc itíll be strong in a lot of boards but hardly as automatic as many other powerful events. And yes itíll be weaker in games with cursers. I donít see the issue with this.
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binbag420

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2022, 04:27:48 pm »
0

I personally prefer it on the curse pile, seems more interesting. I donít see it being that much less swingy in power with your changes.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2022, 09:19:35 pm »
+5

Contest Closed

Judgment coming soon!
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2022, 10:30:36 pm »
+9

Weekly Design Contest 160: Judging

There were a lot of really creative entries this week! Pretty much every card-shaped thing had something to like about it, and a lot seemed to me like they could pass as official card-shaped things (and particularly interesting ones at that!). Below are my comments on each card:

Pot of Gold by Augie279

I like the simplicity. I like things that reward you for getting Duchies. My only issue with it is that I feel like the ďalwaysĒ-effect is too strong and the ďbonusĒ-effect too weak (not in terms of power level, just in terms of interestingness). Iím not sure of a nice fix off the top of my head. A solid entry though.

Midas by majiponi

This is an interesting idea, but Iím not sure how well it works in practice. The treasure-trashing penalty just means you wait until your Coppers are gone before you buy it, which you were probably going to do anyway because it costs $8. But I guess it nerfs the obvious TfB combos that have you trash actions and then fuel the TfB with all the Gold you got. Actually, that initially seemed like the main use to me, but the fact that you junk yourself with Copper when you do it might make it not worth getting at all. Iím not quite sure what to think about this oneÖ

Offering by Gamer3000

I like this one a lot. Itís a really unique idea and itís still pretty simple. My feeling is that itís overpriced, but I donít have anything to base that on and Iím not too concerned with balance anyway. This is definitely a contender.

Lure by Builder_Roberts

I really like the simplicity. I think itís probably rarely (if ever) worth getting without trashing, but with trashing it becomes an interesting choice whether to take Lure or Silver.

Burglar by Gubump

I like the attack a lot, it is creative, novel, and like Bandit Fort, punishes you for using Silver and/or Gold. Itís not enough to completely shut down a player using lots of Silver/Gold, but thatís fine because it costs $3 and doesnít need to have a dominating effect. It accentuates other kingdom-dependent sources of coin, which is good design. This is a contender.

Crone by Marpharos

Itís a weaker Witch that defends against itself. Thatís sort of an interesting concept, but I think thereís a problem inherent to it. If it appears in the same kingdom as Witch, youíll always take Witch because itís basically just better. But as others pointed out, it canít cost less than Witch, because in the non-mirror itís the same as Witch. Maybe you could work around this with a Potion or Debt cost, but Iím not sure that does much to fix the issue.

Homestead by segura

This is really neat. I think itís underpriced, but I donít care much about balance, it would be easy to adjust with playtesting, and the concept is really good. This is going on my top n list.

Tyranny by X-tra

This is very clean and simple. Itís like a Duchy, but two cards instead of one, but they can both be trashed (or just the Curse can be trashed, if itís near the end of the game). I like that itís so similar to Duchy while still being neither clearly better nor clearly worse, though I imagine on a lot of individual boards it will be either clearly better or clearly worse. I like it overall.

Ledger by nyxfulloftricks

I love this. Itís like a super-ultra Peddler, or a non-terminal Coppersmith with maybe some draw, or something; but then it junks you with more of the fuel that it drives on. I canít even begin to wrap my head around whether itís balanced, but itís definitely game-warping. I think it will be most interesting in engines with some trashing but not a lot, where you can sort of keep up with the junk youíre getting but still keep some around for the Ledgers. This is definitely a strong entry.

Financier by kru5h

So either itís the 3 terminal options from Courtier, or else itís a mini Silver-flooder that produces a lot of coin right now. I like the simplicity and this feels like it could be a real published card. Iím guessing which option you choose will generally depend on whether you need exactly $4 right now. Nice card.

Lycantrope by n_sanity

I love the attack, and I love how the on-gain effect hands out a defense for the attack, and how that deters you from opening with it. Iím not so sure about it being a Night-Action with the +2 cards effect; it seems to me like maybe there could have either been a simpler or a more interesting effect to go along with the attack, but thereís nothing particularly wrong with it. I think this is going in my top n list.

Old City by J410

I like this, itís very simple and it makes sense in terms of playability: the extra card draw compared to Village cancels out with the extra junk card(s), but then you trash those junk cards and now youíre left with just this powerhouse card. So it takes some effort, but in the end youíve got a Lost City. This seems like what Cache/Banquet should have been (a strong top half thatís not already available in every game), and what I like in comparison to Lost City is that it doesnít just accelerate everyone, but has an accelerating effect that slows you down to make up for it. I think this deserves to be on the top n list.

Coin Press by Xen3k

So I understand the wording changes, but it wound up as something thatís hard to grok just from reading it. Essentially the effect is get a Silver to hand, or turn two Silvers into a Gold (in-hand), or turn two Coppers into a Silver (or trash other stuff into Silver but thatís uncommon). I think this card is doing a little too much all at once, though I recognize all the effects are all sort of on the same theme. I donít think itís a bad card, just not for me. I do kind of like the idea of ďmeldingĒ treasures into stronger treasures though.

Crook by 4est

So itís like half a Trading Post, combined with a trashing/junking attack. I like the attack, but it might get nasty in conjunction with discard attacks. Itís neat that the attack can actually help other players in the beginning of the game, which is when the top half of the card is most appealing. Clever design.

Sprite by spineflu

This combines (perhaps not intentionally) some things I liked from previous entries (discarding Silver as an option to an attack, Copper-gaining-to-hand as an attack). Otherwise it seems weak, and not-obviously-fixably weak. Copper-to-hand seems like a weak attack to me, and even if it is strong in a particular game, they have another option to avoid it. Trashing a treasure to gain a Gold is reminiscent of Taxman, one of the weakest cards in the game, though this is better as it always gets Gold and doesnít top-deck it. But itís slower since itís a Duration. So thereís some nice ideas in this card but Iím not sure it really works.

Copper Mine by xyz123

I really like the attack on this, though it might be really nasty (itís hard for me to estimate since I canít think of any existing cards to compare it to). Not much else to say about it. Cool idea!

Beachcombers by Dubdubdubdub

I really like this card-shaped thing, because it really feels like it could have been an official Ally. The power level seems in line with existing Allies. ďSpend a favor for +$1Ē is too strong (and also just turns Favors into Coffers), but at the cost of gaining a Copper it gives you some interesting decisions. If you really need that $1 to push you over an important threshold, or if itís late in the game and you donít think youíre going to see the Copper again, it becomes really tempting, but with potentially a long-term cost (or maybe not if you have strong trashing). The option to pick up a few extra VP late in the game is nice too. My only complaint is that itís slightly awkward that itís limited to three times per turn; I donít see a way around that though. This is one of my favorite entries, well done!

Gilders Guild by NoMoreFun

Iíve noticed that I tend to like NoMoreFunís card-shaped things, and this is no exception. This is another Ally entry, and also another really compelling one that feels like it could be an official Ally. The power level seems about right. In some sense you get +$1.5 value out of each Favor spent, but itís very limited in what it can do. But there are often lots of ways to gain Silver, and you (pretty much) never wouldnít rather have a Gold, so it gives a nice boost to your deck if you can find ways to take advantage of it. This is another contender for my top n list.

Amphitheater by emtzalex

I like some of the ideas with this one, but I think the execution is a little off. For one thing, the Curse option feels awkward to me, and I almost get the feeling itís just there to make the card qualify for the contest. I think the most appealing idea with this card is the way that it can build up coin (by discarding and re-drawing Gold) if youíre overdrawing your deck (which you may well be, since it draws 3 cards semi-non-terminally). But I donít think +$1 is nearly enough of a reward for that to ever be worth building a strategy around. I also like conditionally non-terminal cards, and this is a neat way to do it, but I think itís weak at its price point. So I think with some changes this could be a really nice card, but as it is it doesnít quite do it for me.

Moray by CaptainReklaw

I like alt-VP and I like that this actually makes some sense balance-wise at $7, which is an awkward price to design alt-VP at. Unfortunately, I think itís terribroken as it is now. In the vast majority of games, itís just an expensive Duchy, but in the games where itís good, itís potentially worth a ton of VP. It has the problem though that if itís worth a lot of VP, itís nearly impossible to get, since a Copper-flooded deck wonít generally hit $7. Actually, I think that makes it a really interesting card. You have to get several of them first, then start flooding your deck with Copper. But unfortunately there wonít be many games where itís worth going for at all, and the extra awkwardness of being hard to get when itís strong just further nerfs an already weak card. I almost wonder if you could get away with 1 VP per Copper, instead of 1 VP per 2 CoppersÖit would be completely game-warping but maybe in a fun way?

Forest Village by AJL828

I really, really love this idea. Itís unique, simple, and different. I like how it slightly anti-combos with itself by making your hand size bigger after every play (and therefore more likely to have Copper/Silver/Gold in it). I also like how it encourages you to focus on kingdom cards and build a deck with alternative sources of coin. This really feels like it could be an official card. Definitely a top n card!

Decay by Chappy7

This is a pretty neat concept. I like the anti-Mine idea, and the handing out your -$1 token if you canít anti-Mine anything makes sense, since you ďshouldĒ (in some sense) lose a $1 from your hand. Itís a little wordy for a hex, but the idea is intuitive enough that I think itís okay.

Writer by Joxeft

This is actually a pretty cool idea: you compress Coppers into Silvers. You donít change the total coin your deck produces (unless you trash an odd number of Coppers), but you make them take up less space. I wonder if it might be better as an event that trashes from play, since you probably only use it once or twice anyway.

Serenity by arowdok

This is a neat one too, and pretty unique. It gives you an extra way to generate VP by set-collecting on the different types of VP cards. I think itís overpriced, comparing to Colony, but Iím not too concerned about pricing. I like the way this changes how the game plays. This is going on the top n list.

Empire by binbag420

I like the novelty, but I worry that the effect is underwhelming at any price point. Usually by the time youíre buying Provinces, youíre not going to see the cards you get much more. 8D seems way too much to me, but maybe the fact that it stops you from getting Curses justifies it in some games? Iím not quite sure what to think of this card overall, but I appreciate the idea.





So it turns out I had some difficulty restraining myself from putting things on the top n list, which I guess means you all did a really good job this week! Sorting the list required some really tough choices.

Runners Up
9. Burglar by Gubump
8. Lycantrope by n_sanity
7. Offering by Gamer3000
6. Serenity by arowdok
5. Old City by J410
4. Homestead by segura
3. Ledger by nyxfulloftricks
2. Gilders Guild by NoMoreFun
1. Beachcombers by Dubdubdubdub

Winner
0. Forest Village by AJL828
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Builder_Roberts

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #66 on: August 19, 2022, 10:49:18 pm »
0

Congrats to AJL828!

Quote
I think itís probably rarely (if ever) worth getting without trashing, but with trashing it becomes an interesting choice whether to take Lure or Silver.

That's fair. I might as well just add trashing to it.

makes it so that gold is essentially split into 2 easy payments of $3.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 10:50:28 pm by Builder_Roberts »
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Builder_Roberts

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2022, 09:02:02 am »
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This is too automatic in the opening. See the entry about Hovel in the Secret History of Dark Ages.

I don't see the part you mean of the secret histories. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hovel
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2022, 10:09:40 am »
+2

Thank you for the win! :D I just posted the new contest as well!
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Builder_Roberts

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2022, 10:19:44 am »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2022, 10:42:22 am »
+2

I don't see the part you mean of the secret histories. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hovel

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Shelters#Secret_History

Yeah, I read that. I'm asking what part he means. It doesn't seem related at all.

What they are referring to is how Lure allows people to trash their Estates/Shelters in the first two turns and that, according to the testing noted in that Secret History, this is too good to pass up. This would make the early game too automatic as the optimal play is to use Lure to trash yourself into a deck of all Copper straight away.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2022, 01:08:36 pm »
+1

What they are referring to is how Lure allows people to trash their Estates/Shelters in the first two turns and that, according to the testing noted in that Secret History, this is too good to pass up. This would make the early game too automatic as the optimal play is to use Lure to trash yourself into a deck of all Copper straight away.

Oh! I  disagree. Might as well rework it anyway.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2022, 02:01:32 pm »
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You can "disagree" (translate: ignore) with the playtesting experiences of the designer. But it is highly unlikely that this leads to good cards. Especially when it is about elementary stuff like feasibility of trashing in the opening.

Don't misinterpret. It's rude. I meant what I said and I said what I meant.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #160: Two Base Cards
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2022, 02:48:55 pm »
+2

Passing up something in order to trash one of your starting 10 cards in your first two turns doesn't seem problematic to me - in fact, I think it sounds strategically interesting. There are effects in the game that already let you do that, and even more, like Doctor.
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