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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights  (Read 4102 times)

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Marpharos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2022, 12:56:22 pm »
+1



This one is for Seaside. Lets you set up your next hand. Stacking them lets you silver flood your next hand.

With the order of this as it stands, you gain the silver after you've top-decked. Might be intentional, but you could consider gaining the silver to hand first?
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2022, 02:07:58 pm »
0

My submission for Seaside:

Siren
Action-Duration-Night
$5
If it's your Night phase, at the start of your next turn, +$2
Otherwise, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure or Duration card from their hand, or reveals a hand with neither.


Most ships are duration cards, and I thought a mermaid/siren should attack those more than anything else. Also, I wanted it to affect durations in play, but thought that wouldn't actually be fun. Undecided whether it should hit a treasure and a duration, or just one or the other.

You could probably get away with pricing this at $3.
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Marpharos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2022, 02:51:41 pm »
+1

My submission for Seaside:

Siren
Action-Duration-Night
$5
If it's your Night phase, at the start of your next turn, +$2
Otherwise, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure or Duration card from their hand, or reveals a hand with neither.


Most ships are duration cards, and I thought a mermaid/siren should attack those more than anything else. Also, I wanted it to affect durations in play, but thought that wouldn't actually be fun. Undecided whether it should hit a treasure and a duration, or just one or the other.

You could probably get away with pricing this at $3.

Yeah, you're right it is super weak as it stands. It might need to give $2 next turn regardless of whether it was played at night, or have the attack part only happen at Night. Or I might completely revamp it..
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2022, 02:55:33 pm »
+9



Quote
Embark
$6 - Night

Trash a Copper, Silver and Gold you have in play.
If you do, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy or +$1 token to an Action Supply pile you have no tokens on.

FAQ: This can trash some of the mentioned Treasure cards and fail to trash others. You only get to move a token if you trash all three.

Embark on Adventures! It requires some prep and doesn’t come cheap, but the winnings could be great.

As suggested in the prompt: a bit wordy but easy to understand. I’m going for that sweet spot of complexity - a card that lures you with the promise of big power plays, but isn’t trivial to play optimally.

Feedback is appreciated, especially on the price. Comparing to Teacher, Embark can be quicker to set up the first time. But 1) it needs to connect with the Treasures, and 2) it needs additional fodder if you want to place more tokens after the first one.
On the other hand, the first token is the most impactful, and at least Embark is a worse Monastery when it doesn’t connect.

P.S. Any way to fix the fonts in SoH on mobile?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 03:05:24 pm by Dubdubdubdub »
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2022, 06:18:58 pm »
0



This one is for Seaside. Lets you set up your next hand. Stacking them lets you silver flood your next hand.

With the order of this as it stands, you gain the silver after you've top-decked. Might be intentional, but you could consider gaining the silver to hand first?

that is the point. you can topdeck the silver if you have several, as night cards are nonterminal.

I would consider making the topdecking optional. It is a nice mixture of effects and while topdecking an unused Action is good as a Scheme-like effect, it could really hurt you if you have to topdeck junk. Sure, nobody forces you to play the Longshoreman but I don’t think that the card would become too strong with optional topdecking.

yeah i don't think it'd be too strong either but the thing i wanted to do - "hold a card for next turn, draw one fewer", inspired by the deckbuilder i'm working on - would probably vanish into a broader utility card if I did that. better to keep it focused.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 10:17:10 pm by spineflu »
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Chappy7

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2022, 06:27:11 pm »
+3



Is this wording okay, or do I need to do something like "if you have no more than one copy of any card in play..."

Anyway this is for Cornucopia.  It wants a variety of cards in play, and it helps you get there.  It's a slow non-terminal trasher, and a potential sifting lab to start your next turn. And if you do manage to trigger its affect, then it will be easier to trigger another lucubrate (Thanks thesaurus) on your next turn.  You won't be able to use the duration part for more than one per turn though.
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4est

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2022, 08:36:49 pm »
+8



I'm updating my submission (OP updated here) for this week to Wolf. Similar top as Coyote, but now with a simpler and more interactive Reaction that essentially allows you to play this as an Exile Smugglers. When one Wolf howls, the rest can join in! Name/image change for thematic purposes (I don't think Coyotes howl together, right?).
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2022, 05:14:52 am »
0



I'm updating my submission (OP updated here) for this week to Wolf. Similar top as Coyote, but now with a simpler and more interactive Reaction that essentially allows you to play this as an Exile Smugglers. When one Wolf howls, the rest can join in! Name/image change for thematic purposes (I don't think Coyotes howl together, right?).

Nice improvement! Makes it simpler and more universally useful.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2022, 05:27:35 am »
+1

I suggest reordering "a card costing up to $6 from the supply that was gained this turn" into "a card costing up to 6$ that was gained this turn from the supply"
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2022, 09:41:58 am »
0

I suggest reordering "a card costing up to $6 from the supply that was gained this turn" into "a card costing up to 6$ that was gained this turn from the supply"

Two points:
• I think all official cards say where to exile from so this technically would allow you to exile a card from somewhere other than the supply, no? This could probably be explained in the FAQ but is not consistent with the official cards.
• It's minor, but it is also functionally different, in that with the original of someone gains a card from the trash, you could exile a copy (from the supply); with the new wording you can't. Like I said, minor.

I think I'd suggest going with "a card from the supply costing up to $6 that was gained this turn" just reordering the "from the supply" and the "costing up to $6".
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2022, 11:02:17 am »
0

I suggest reordering "a card costing up to $6 from the supply that was gained this turn" into "a card costing up to 6$ that was gained this turn from the supply"

Two points:
• I think all official cards say where to exile from so this technically would allow you to exile a card from somewhere other than the supply, no? This could probably be explained in the FAQ but is not consistent with the official cards.
• It's minor, but it is also functionally different, in that with the original of someone gains a card from the trash, you could exile a copy (from the supply); with the new wording you can't. Like I said, minor.

I think I'd suggest going with "a card from the supply costing up to $6 that was gained this turn" just reordering the "from the supply" and the "costing up to $6".

Their grammar is slightly ambiguous, but in silverspawn's wording, "from the Supply" still applies to the card being Exiled, not the "that was gained this turn." If it said "a card costing up to $6 that was gained from the Supply this turn", THEN "from the Supply" would apply to where the card was gained from.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2022, 02:05:24 am »
+4

24 Hour Warning

Here are the list of submissions I have so far:

Please let me know if I have missed any.
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LTaco

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2022, 09:37:21 am »
+7



For Empires: This is a split pile that features returning to your Action phase. Both of those mechanics are featured in the Empires expansion.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2022, 10:35:55 pm »
+6

Bed And Breakfast
Night - Reserve - $3
Put this and a card you would discard from play this turn on your Tavern Mat.
-
At the start of your turn, you may call this to play an Action or Treasure card from your Tavern Mat.

For Adventures. Note that the card you play leaves the Tavern Mat and is discarded as normal.
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Joxeft

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2022, 10:39:19 pm »
+2

Night Worker
Night - Liaison - Cost:4
+2 Favors per card you've gained this turn.

Feedback is appreciated.

For: Allies
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 10:41:26 pm by Joxeft »
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2022, 01:53:36 am »
0

Bed And Breakfast
Night - Reserve - $3
Put this and a card you would discard from play this turn on your Tavern Mat.
-
At the start of your turn, you may call this to play an Action or Treasure card from your Tavern Mat.

For Adventures. Note that the card you play leaves the Tavern Mat and is discarded as normal.

I think this could be $4 or maybe even $5. Comparing to Royal Galley, this is more flexible, easier to connect and it works on Treasures.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2022, 11:00:50 am »
+5

Contest Closed

Sorry, I got distracted and forgot to post this last night. I'll try to get the judging posted in the next couple of days.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2022, 01:18:01 pm »
+4

Here is the final list of submissions. Please check to make sure I have your current submission on here and let me know if anything is missing or out of date.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2022, 11:44:40 am »
+9

Sorry for the delay. I have been slammed at work and ended up having to go in over the weekend, so didn't get as far with this as I had hoped. I will try to have results by tomorrow.
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2022, 07:33:42 pm »
+9



Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights



Night cards!!! Sorry this took so long. This ended up being one of my busiest work weeks all year, and judging this was much harder than I expected. Anyway, on to the submissions.






Quote
Last Watch - $4 - Night - Reaction
If it's your Night phase, put up to 2 cards onto your deck when you discard them from play this turn. Otherwise, +2 Cards.
-
At the start of your turn, you may play this from your hand.



Last Watch by Builder_Roberts
Hinterlands


A Night - Reaction, that can either topdeck 2 cards if played during your Night phase, or give a player +2 Cards if played using its reaction, which lets a player play it at the start of your turn. This card is way too strong. Using Clerk's Reaction to limit the +2 Cards to the start of your turn is not much of a limitation at all, because it is still "at the start of your turn" after you resolve it. Which means that if you draw a LW using LW, you can react with it as well (this works with Clerk and Way of the Chameleon). As long as it's your only card that draws on-play, it is a Laboratory that costs $4 instead of $5. That is a huge benefit (especially with a gainer or remodeler), and on a lot of boards will warrant foregoing other drawing cards. But even if you're using some other +Cards and get it later in your turn, that's barely a penalty, as you can topdeck (and thus, barring discarding attacks, play at the start of your next turn) not only the copy you got late, but another LW (or other beneficial card) as well.








Sir Nightking
cost $5 - Night - Attack - Duration - Knight
At the start of your next turn: +1 Card, and each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes one costing $3 - $6, and discards the rest; If anyone trashes a Knight, trash this.

Until then, when another player plays a Knight, it won't affect you.



Sir Nightking by majiponi
Dark Ages


If there were Night cards in Dark Ages, one of the Knights could be a Night. In this case, it's a Night - Duration, which gives +1 Card at the start of your next turn. Until then, the player who plays Sir Nightking is protected from other Knight attacks. The danger of such a form of protection is that it can discourage other players from buying Knights, which then renders the protection meaningless. That's somewhat less of a risk here, as Sir Nightking could be anywhere in the deck, and other players may already have bought copies; however, in this case the risk of your opponent getting Sir Nightking might be enough to keep players from buying Knights in the first place. Most Knight cards are pretty terrible without their attack, so the possibility that your opponent will be protected is a pretty big discouragement.

I'll admit that I don't particularly like trashing attacks, so I can't say I'd love to see this in a Kingdom. I do think making one a Night adds an interesting bit of mechanical diversity, and it's certainly a creative effort. But ultimately I don't know if it's enough of a new to justify it as a fan card.










Quote
Cat Burglar - $4
Night - Looter
For each card in your hand, choose a different thing: Gain a Spoils; trash a card from your hand; gain a Copper onto your deck; gain a Ruins; gain a Curse.



Cat Burglar by Xen3k
Dark Ages


This is an interesting take on a Night card. It has two primary functions, as a trasher and to gain Spoils. To do both you need to leave an extra card (besides the one you're trashing) in your hand. If you have more than two cards, you get a piece of junk: a Copper (onto your deck), Ruins, or Curse. I like the use of both Spoils and Ruins, which (along with trashing) gives a lot of the Dark Ages flavor. I also like the mechanic of a thing-per-card-in-hand.

In the vast majority of cases, a player will be able to only trash a card and gain a Spoils. Unless they draw Cat Burgler with 3 Estates, players will not be forced to take any of the junk. The only exception is in a game with a junker, and even there, once the pile of junk runs out (which is likely to happen if you have both the junker and CB junking the same card). Once a player starts greening they may again risk having more than one card in their hand they don't want to trash, but at that point using CB as a trasher is likely less important.

The fact that players will rarely get self-junked is not a huge problem, but it makes CB look fairly strong as compared to Marauder (which is terminal, and junks a Ruins instead of trashing a card). Except that players will often have to choose between leaving a card (generally a Treasue) in their hand (in addition to the card they want trashed) in order to gain a Spoils. This makes for an interesting strategic choice. Overall, this is certainly an interesting submission.









Quote
Dr. Jekyll • $3P • Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Exchange this for a Mr. Hyde.
Quote
Mr. Hyde • $2P* • Night - Attack
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. You may trash a Potion you have in play to exchange this for a Dr. Jekyll.
(This is not in the Supply.)



Dr. Jekyll (with Mr. Hyde) by n_sanity
Alchemy


A pair of cards that exchange for one another. Dr. Jeckyll a double Lab with +Buy that always changes into Mr. Hyde, a pure attack Militia variant that only turns back if you trash a Potion you have in play. Using a Potion cost definitely fits the mechanical theme of Alchemy, and (importantly) it keeps Dr. Jeckyll from being played by Command cards (even with discounting). It also somewhat fits narrative theme (although that story takes place far later than any of the cards in Dominion are set).

I have to admit that I am at a loss as to the cards' strategic value. My first thought was that both are quite good, and I didn't see the downside in having either. Obviously the double-Lab is very powerful, but a non-terminal strong handsize attack is as well. However, it's clear that a player wouldn't want too many Hydes, as each one after the first is useless. The question then becomes, how many copies of each to buy, and how many Potions to feed them. It would obviously take some testing, but I think the ideal scenario would be to play this in a solid engine, and have 2 copies, one in each form. Ideally you would have additional +Buy or a gainer allowing you to buy a Potion each turn to feed the transformation until they run out.

This certainly creates some interesting questions about how it should best be used. It also creates an issue which no existing card does, which is the depth of the Potions pile. Overall a really creative and novel submission.








Quote
Horselord • $5 • Night
Gain a Horse per non-Horse card you have gained this turn.

This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile).




Horselord by segura
Menagerie


A simple Horse-gainer, that gains card per non-Horse card you had gained that turn. It certainly fits the theme of Menagerie, and both being a gainer and counting how many cards a player has gained are good Night card mechanics.

While this has some potential to be pretty strong, in the absence of either actual or alt +Buy, this feels far too weak. If it only every gained you 1 Horse, it would be (all but) strictly worse than Laboratory at the same price. Even if it sometimes gained 2 Horses, it would be pretty weak compared to Paddock, which although (usually) terminal also provides $2 of payload at the same price (and, in some decks, lets you use the Horses you gained during that turn).

This is a good idea, but I don't think the balance is right. While it would probably be too good at $4, it is too weak to be a $5 card.








Set:  Dark Ages

Card Name:  Crypt Raider

Cost:  2

Type:  Night - Attack

Text:  If you have a Ruins in play, you may trash it.  If you do, gain two Spoils.  If you have no Ruins in play, each player, including you, gains a ruin from the supply. 
-
When you gain this, return all Ruins from the trash to the supply and gain two ruins.



Crypt Raider by Homersolo
Dark Ages


Another entry from Dark Ages, and another card that gains both Ruins and Spoils. Crypt Raider can covert Ruins into Spoils, or junk everyone (including the player playing it) with a Ruins. It also gives a player 2 Ruins when it is gained (and revives all of the Ruins from the trash). Using both Ruins and Spoils definitely sets it in Dark Ages, and gaining and trashing cards in play are good ways to use a Night card.

As an initial note, since this card gains Ruins, it should have the "Looter" type (as Death Card, Marauder, and Cultist all do). Also, you forgot to capitalize "Ruins" twice, once at the end of the text and once when all players are gaining one (you also used the singular, even though it is always "Ruins" plural--see Marauder).

This is another interesting take. The obvious comparison is Death Cart, which gives coins for trashing Ruins (DC will trash any Action card, but Ruins are the obvious choice), this gives Spoils, which function (somewhat) like delayed $. The fact that it involuntarily keeps giving Ruins an interesting twist, and it's negative effect is mitigated by the fact that you are also junking your opponents.

Strategically, this is a bit of a tough sell. All the cards involved--the CR, the Spoils, and (except RL) the Ruins are dead cards. This makes CR fairly unappealing in most engines, since they don't want all of those dead cards around. On the other hand, most big money decks will have a hard time colliding CR with the Ruins (absent some dumb luck), and if they are BM + terminal draw, the fact that the Ruins need to be in play will make that even more of a challenge. Thus, while the card is interesting mechanically and not unbalanced in theory, in practice I have a hard time seeing when it would make its way into a player's deck.
 








Quote
Wolf • $3 • Night - Reaction
Exile a copy of a card costing up to $6 from the Supply that was gained this turn.

When another player plays a Wolf, you may play this from your hand.



Wolf by 4est
Menagerie


Wolf is a Night - Reaction which (in effect) allows a player duplicate a card they gained on their turn, with the extra copy going into Exile. However, by doing so, they risk their opponent reacting with their own Wolf, and effectively getting their own double as well. A solid fit for the themes of Menagerie.

I used the word "duplicate" intentionally, since (as you noted) the effect is nearly identical. Unlike Duplicate, Wolf is non-terminal, puts the card in Exile, and slightly cheaper. However, Duplicate's Reserve ability means the card you Duplicate doesn't have to be bought the same turn (which is especially valuable since neither Duplicate nor Wolf add to a player's payload, meaning they're less able to buy a better card). I still think the balance is probably right, since you can use Wolf much more easily with terminal draw cards. And while Wolf is less useful for gaining Action cards or Treasures to build your deck, it is way more valuable during later greening, as it lets you put a bonus copy of Duchy into Exile.

The Reaction is a very interesting twist. You compared it to Smugglers, but it feels very different. The first Wolf gives more of a bonus copy, or, in the case of Victory cards, it's almost more like getting VP tokens. By Reacting with a Wolf, you effectively undue the advantage that the previous player got from playing Wolf (this is less true in a game with more than 2 player). If you happened to 2 Wolves when your opponent Exiles a Duchy, you actually revere the benefit to yourself (if there are enough copies left). My worry is that this pushes into the territory of a Reaction that is so adverse that it's not worth it for a player to do the thing that could get reacted to. However, I don't think that's the case here. By the time you are buying Duchies, an opponent having enough Wolves to have 2 copies in hand seems like an ultimately far weaker strategy.

A really strong entry: it fits the theme, seems fun to play, and offers a really interesting new idea.








Quote
Hideaway
$3 - Night - Victory
Choose one: Gain a Silver, put a card from your discard pile on top of your deck, or +1 Card at the end of this turn (after drawing).
-
Worth 1 VP.



Hideaway by LibraryAdventurer
Intrigue


A Night - Victory card that offers players 3 choices: gaining a Silver, topdecking a card from their discard pile, or getting an extra card for the following turn (vulnerable to handsize attacks). This fits Intrigue's themes of dual cards and cards that give your choices, and a Hideaway fits the set's flavor.

The first thing I think of is Great Hall / Mill, but those are not great comparisons, because they are both cantrips, meaning they, in effect, don't take up space in your deck/hand. Hideaway is a stop card, so it does take up a space, but unlike a traditional Victory card, it is not drawn dead. However, unlike GH/M, you can't load multiple copies of these into your deck without having to worry about it being in your way. On the other hand, the card's abilities are solid enough to make it buyable in most games. Early on the Silver gaining is nice, and the fact that it's a Night card means that you can use the second ability to topdeck a card you just gained that turn (or some other card in your discard pile you want back more quickly). That ability can also be quite useful with Travellers or rotator piles. And if all else fails, the +1 Card on the following turn is almost always a positive.

My sense of this card is that in most games, most players will buy a single copy (maybe two). This means the VP it provides will have very little impact on the final score, suggesting that making it a Victory card might not be that significant to gameplay.








Boarding House
Night - $3
This turn, if you didn't remove any tokens from your:
Coffers Mat, +1 Coffers
Villagers Mat, +1 Villager



Boarding House by NoMoreFun
Renaissance


Boarding House is a pure Night card that can give a Coffers and a Villager, but only if you didn't use that particular resources on the turn it was played. While the card has to be from Renaissance (the only set with Villagers), I would've appreciated you specifying that. It uses two good mechanics for Night, getting tokens and working based on what happened that turn.

Generally speaking, a player will know they will have a BH to play when deciding to withdraw Coffers. That is not true for Villagers, which may well be pulled off to play a terminal draw card which will put the BH in a players hand (causing them to miss the bonus). Even with Coffers, it will often be hard for a player to choose to missing a higher price point (getting a Gold instead of a Province, or a $4 instead of a $5  card) for a single Coffers. Without getting a Villager, BH is nearly strictly worse than Candlestick Maker (not giving +Buy and its Coffers not being available until the following turn). This issue is made worse by the fact that, generally speaking, the turns on which you pull down the Villagers to play more Action cards are, in many cases, going to be turns on which you draw more cards, and therefore are more likely to draw BH. This, plus the fact that you can't use either the Coffers or Villager you gain until the following turn make it seem to far on the weak side to me.

Even if you gained the tokens unconditionally, I'm not sure this would be overpowered at $4. (Compare to Patron, which gives you $ this turn and gives you a villager under somewhat similar conditions). That's less interesting, but if you left the condition in place, I think you could maybe even give +2 tokens and price it a $4.








Quote
Name: Thieves' Guild
Types: Action, Treasure, Night
Cost: $6
Text: +3 Cards, +1 Buy; +1 Coffers per card you've gained this turn.



Thieves' Guild by scott_pilgrim
Guilds


Thieves' Guild is a (sometimes) terminal draw card that gives +Buy and a Coffers per card gained this turn. Since it has 3 types, it can be played in any of the (official) phases before Clean-up. And while it does the same thing in each, the effect is different.

In your Action phase, it's a fairly traditional terminal draw card (albeit a bit expensive). If you can properly balance copies of it with villages, it can power a very solid engine. When further combined with some non-terminal (or further supported by villagers) gainers, it could be even better. During your Buy phase you can play it without spending an Action, but you can't play any of the Action cards you draw (without Villa/Cavalry), and you still can't play it before buying cards (although you can get the benefit of gaining Treasures like HoP and ST). During your Night phase, the +Cards and +Buy are all but worthless (the +Cards might help if you also have a Night trasher), but you will generally have gained all your are going to gain that turn (unless you draw a Devil's Workshop), so get the full benefit of the +Coffers. 

I really like a multi-type card that has the same on-play effect whenever it's played, and there's all kinds of interesting ways you can play this. The fact that it costs $6 for something that often costs $5 is a bit tough, but I think it will be very buyable in a lot of games. It's also got some really strong potential in both engines and Big Money decks. This is a really solid entry.









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Alehouse • $5 • Night - Reserve
Gain a card costing up to $5 other than Alehouse. You may put this on your Taven mat to topdeck it.

When you gain a Night card you may discard this from your Tavern mat.



Alehouse by binbag420
Adventures


A Night-Reserve that gains a card, and can topdeck that card if you move Alehouse to the Tavern mat. It comes off the Tavern mat when you gain another Night card. The Reserve aspect is a really interesting mechanic. However, a $5 that gains other $5 is way too strong. The only cards that gain any $5 cards (Altar, Artisan) cost $6, and have some kind of additional limitation (trashing or topdecking) or, if they are cheaper (Importer, War Chest), have an even bigger limitation. The fact that this is also non-terminal makes it that much stronger. In way too many games, players would just default to buying one of these, and use them to help rush some strong $5 like Minion. Then at the end of the game, it's much too easy to use it to get extra Duchies.

This is a really good idea, but this implementation is way to strong. If you priced it at $4 and made it gain cards costing up to $4, that would be a lot more balanced (although I'm still not sure there'd be a very good reason for it to be a Night card).








Tomb Raider

+2 Coffers

$3 Night




Tomb Raider by CaptainReklaw
Guilds


Tomb Raider is nothing if not simple. For $3, it's a Night card that gives you +2 Coffers. The card's name seems like it might fit better in Dark Ages or Adventures, but that's not a huge problem. This design actually gets directly at what I find to be the most interesting question about Night cards that give +Coffers: the relative strength of having +$X to spend this turn or +X Coffers that you can't spend until a future turn. One one hand, the Coffers can be held as long as you'd like, and accumulated for bigger buys. On the other hand, by delaying payload, you are delaying buying the card that will make you deck stronger, which will then let you buy yet better cards, potentially having a snowball effect (especially early in the game). TR call the question by costing the same as Silver, and giving the same payload, but in the form of Coffers and in your Night phase.

Initially Silver will probably be the better choice, and that will probably remain the case for the first few turns (unless you are trying to hit a big price point early, e.g. Inheritance or Canals). In mid-game that could turn around, although you'd have to be careful about the balance of the two.

The card scores high for simplicity, and is definitely an interesting design with interesting implications on balance and strategy.










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Sprit Guide • $3 • Night - Duration - Angel
You may put a card you would discard from play this turn onto your deck. You may rotate the Angels. At the start of your next turn, +1 Card.
Quote
Martyr • $4 • Night - Angel
Trash this and a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $3 more than either trashed card.
Quote
Defender • $5 • Night - Duration - Attack - Angel
At the start of your next turn, +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$1. Until then, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you and they discard a card from thier hand.
Quote
Diety • $6 • Night - Angel
Put your deck and discard pile into your hand. Trash up to 4 cards from it.



Angels pile by Augie279
Allies


This is a 4-card rotator pile from Allies: Sprit Guide, Martyr, Defender, and Deity. They are all Night cards. Spirit Guide lets you topdeck a card from play and gives you +1 Card at the start of your next turn (effectively putting the card in your hand, if you want, or otherwise just increasing your hand's size). Martyr is a one-shot; while technically a remodeler, you are unlikely to be trashing anything costing more than it, meaning that, effectively, it will generally just gain a card costing up to $7. Defender is a Guardian variant, which gives a Lost City effect in addition to the +$1, and it makes player who play Attack cards discard a card. Finally, Deity is an incredibly strong trasher, getting you all your cards not in play or outside the game (set aside or on a mat) and letting you trash 4 of them.

SG is pretty reasonable $3 card. Making the pile rotator a Duration will tend to slow the process of getting the pile rotated (since it takes an extra turn to get it back into your deck, potentially missing a shuffle). Given how strong the other cards are this might not be so bad.

Martyr is very strong. Compare it to Feast, which cost the same, was terminal, could only gain a $5 card, and didn't have any trashing. While Martyr is limited by the 4 copies that exist (and by the fact that they will be rotated to the bottom of the deck) it's still extremely powerful.

Defender would somewhat more balanced, if it didn't have the Counter-Attack). It's effectively a Guardian and a Ghost Town combined into a single card, with the combined cost of the two (but without the gain-to-hand). This by itself would be strong at $5, since by combining the two cards into one you both save a buy when you get it and (much more importantly) save a card in your hand when you play it. In addition to making a already-strong card stronger, the counter-attack itself may not be the greatest idea. Generally speaking, counter-attacks, if they render an attack card not worth playing, leads to players not buying the attack cards, meaning the counter-attack is never used, and all it does is render one or more other cards unplayable. A single-card discarding may not do that to a lot of attack cards (e.g. Witch) but could render others unbuyable (e.g. Urchin). Of course, Defender itself is an Attack, but since it's a Night - Duration that doesn't do anything when you play it, you can simply save it for last, and then it only matters if you have 2 Defenders and no other cards.

By itself as a trasher, Deity is absurdly powerful, non-terminally trashing 4 cards, while ensuring that you have access to whatever cards you want to trash. But that's not all. It also lets you play all of your other Night cards, including the other Angels. With a Deity and 2 SGs, you can play Deity every turn, using it to draw a SG and using that to topdeck Deity for next turn. If you add 2 Defenders, this can't even be stopped with an attack like Minion or Pillage. That's way to strong of a combo to come out of a single pile.

This was an ambitious design, but it ended up being much too powerful. 









Quote
Longshoreman • $2 • Night
You may discard the top card of your deck. Put a card from your hand onto your deck. You may gain a Silver to your hand.



Longshoreman by spineflu
Seaside


Longshoreman is Night card that does up to 3 things. It can discard a card from your deck, it topdecks a card from your hand, and it can gain a Silver to your hand. Gaining to your hand during your Night phase is, of course, of limited value, but if you have multiple Longshoremen you can chain them (if you have at least one other card to topdeck) to put Silver onto your deck. While the name works, I'm having some trouble fitting the mechanic into Seaside. I guess there's a way in which Native Village and Lookout are interested in the top of your deck, but that's a bit of a stretch.

The card itself seems like something of a borderline proposition. I could see buying it on a $2/$5 open for the Silver gaining. But generally speaking, you would rather play the good cards in your hand this turn then put them back on your deck for next turn. The obvious exception is a terminal collision, and the case for this would certainly be improved if you were opening it with a Margrave or Torturer. I'm also having a bit of trouble with the use of discarding the top card of your deck. I'm not sure how many cards junk onto your deck now that Sea Hag is retired. It could sometimes trigger a shuffle, but then the only cards you are leaving out are the ones in play or in your hand. That might occasionally be what you want, but it seems pretty rare. This just does not seem like a card that I would want in most games.








Lychnobite
Night - Liaison
$2

Discard any number of cards from your hand. For each card discarded +1 Favor



Lychnobite by xyz123
Allies


A simple Liaison, Lychnobite turns leftover cards into Favors. The Liaison mechanic fits Allies well, and the name--meaning someone who works at night and sleeps during the day (I had to look that up)--fits both mechanics and the (somewhat vague) theme of Allies. The obvious use for this is with Victory cards that you can't play anyway, but a player can also hold back Treasures they don't need for extra favors (e.g. if a player has 4 Coppers and a Lychnobite, they can play 3 Coppers, buy a Silver, and discard the last Copper).

Power level can be a bit tricky to determine with Liaisons, because there are 23 different Allies they might be paired with. Comparing it to Underling, it feels more than a little weaker. While Underling is a cantrip, giving you +1 Favor while taking no cards from your hand, Lychnobite requires 2 card slots for the first favor. It scales up from there, giving you an extra Favor for each slot it takes. This could be a big advantage with certain Allies. For example, with League of Bankers, you may decide it's worth foregoing a Silver and discarding your whole hand for +4 Favors (meaning you get +$1 every turn for the rest of the game). On the other hand, Lychnobite seems to have something of the opposite effect of Cave Dwellers.

One issues is that, with League of Shopkeepers, it's basically unplayable. All of the bonuses you get from LoS have no use during your Night phase, and you only get them when you play a Liaison. So, unless there's another Liaison in the game, Lychnobite does nothing (unless you have a card with an on-discard Reaction, like Tunnel or Village Green). While there's only a 1 in 23 chance of this being the Liaison, it is a pretty big issue for me that this just doesn't work with one of the official Ally cards.

Even without LoS, I'm not sure this is the best possible Night - Liaison. You can discard cards any time, and your Night phase is when that has the least consequence. Something that gained Favors based on how many cards you'd gained that turn (or something like that) might have been more Night-esque. That said, I think it's reasonably balanced, and would be fun to play with most of the Allies.








Quote
Pawnshop • $4 • Night
Exile up to 2 cards from your hand.
For each card exiled this way, you may gain a cheaper non-Victory card you don't have a copy of in play.



Pawnshop by Gamer3000
Menagerie


Pawnshop is an Exiler that can gain a cheaper card, if you don't have a copy in play. Exiling both fits with Menagerie's mechanics and works during the Night phase, and the not-in-play limitation is strengthened in its impact by being a Night card. As with Mastermind, the picture contains a gratuitous animal to fit it into Menagerie. This certainly fits the themes.

There are 3 cards which work as deck thinners by Exiling a card from your hand: Bounty Hunter, Displace, and Sanctuary. None of them Exile more than one card. Exiling is a strong ability, because it can thin your deck without costing you the VP from having the cards you are getting rid of (the one drawback is with Curses, which still give you -VP). Pawnshop would be too strong at $4 if it just Exiled the cards. But the gaining is even stronger, even with the restriction. There are often solid, useful $5 and $6 Kingdom cards that you would take if you could, but aren't worth buying. With Pawnshop, once you collide it with a Province, you can get one of those for free. It's even better with cards that disappear from play like Experiment or Wine Merchant. But even if you never gain a card, a non-terminal double-Exiler is too strong.








Welder
Night - Victory ($6)

Discard a card. For each type it has, gain a card costing up to $4.
---
Worth 1 VP per 2 different card types you have (round down).



Welder by AJL828
Intrigue


Welder is a gainer that is also worth Victory points. Both its dual types and it's caring about other card's types fit Intrigue well (the name not especially, but no less so than Mill). I'm not sure that it's ability is especially suited to be a Night card, as discarding can happen at any time (but being a gainer is a good fit).

For it's gaining ability, it gain's the standard "costing up to $4", but can gain extra cards if the card you discard has multiple types (on the other hand, if you don't save a card to discard, you can't gain anything). It's worth 1 VP per 2 types you have. Since it is a Victory - Night, and you will almost certainly also have Action and Treasure cards, these are worth at least two. Between Attack, Reaction, and Duration, it will often not be hard to get it up to 3. (In a pinch, you could even add a Curse; if you have more than 1 Welder and it gets you to the next multiple of 2, it would be worth it).

The obvious comparison here is to Nobles, who cost the same, are worth 2VP, and are playable. Nobles are always good for at least a terminal +3 Cards, and if you can get them together (or combine them with other engine components) they can be quite strong. Welder, by contrast, will often only have the effect of a Workshop (albeit a non-terminal one), and that will often come at the cost of at least one $1 out of your payload (if you have to hold back a Copper or better). On the other hand, if you are trying to rush some $4 cards, it can be valuable. And Welder gets a lot stronger with certain combos: Shelters (which make Welders worth 3VP from just the base deck, and gain you 2 cards), Ruins (if you're getting junked with them anyway), and on-discard Reactions (which give you extra gains and their abilities).

Overall, I think it's pretty balanced when compared to Nobles (being worth the same with the potential to be worth more, while having a generally-but-not-always weaker effect). It's certainly an interesting card, and fits well in Intrigue, but it could just as easily have been an Action card with +1 Action.








Siren
Action-Duration-Attack-Night
$3
If it's your Night phase, at the start of your next turn, +$2
Otherwise, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure or Duration card from their hand, or reveals a hand with neither.



Siren by Marpharos
Seaside


Siren is an Action-Duration-Attack-Night card from Seaside. It's like Werewolf, having one ability if played during the Action phase and a different one if played at Night (with only one being an Attack). Both the name and the interaction with Duration cards are good fits with Seaside, and the next-turn-vanilla bonus is similar to a number of official Night cards.

I don't love that this is a pure Attack card when played during your Action phase. I'd point out the fact that Sea Hag was pulled from the 2E of Seaside. This is especially true where, as here, the Attack might fail (not just because it's block with a Reaction, but here, also because a player might not have any Treasure or Duration cards). While Werewolf is sometimes only an Attack, that's during your Night phase, when not getting anything from the card is less disruptive. Also, you can load your deck with Werewolves, playing one of them for a terminal draw and using the rest for their Attacks at Night. Siren makes you choose, and if you play it during your Action phase, you could get nothing. That makes it seem like a card that would be hard to buy in most games.
 









Quote
Embark
$6 - Night

Trash a Copper, Silver and Gold you have in play.
If you do, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy or +$1 token to an Action Supply pile you have no tokens on.



Embark by Dubdubdubdub
Adventures


Embark is a Night card that trashes a Copper, Silver, and Gold from play, and moves one of the player-tokens from Adventures. Interacting with cards in play and moving those tokens are both good things to do with a Night card (the latter fitting it well into Adventures' theme and only working with this crossover).

This is an interesting card, and one I'd be a sucker for. The need to collide all three of the cards means it's hard to activate (especially since you have to forego buying a Gold to pay for Embark) without some drawing/sifting before you get any tokens. But that could come from some combination of cantrips and sifters (you can activate this with just 4 cards, so you can still do it after a single play of Cellar or Warehouse). Until then, you can use Embark to trash some of your Coppers (but it will also get a Silver or Gold if you play them).

This card seems like a lot of fun, and a card I would love to play. I think it might be a bit on the strong side, and definitely plays vastly better with engines than with other strategies. But I think it's a great card that definitely fits what I was looking for.









Quote
Lucubrate • $4 • Night - Duration
You may trash a non-duration card you have in play. Discard a non-duration card you have in play. If you have no duplicates in lay, at the start of your next turn, +3 Cards, then discard 2 cards.




Lucubrate by Chappy7
Cornucopia


A Night - Duration from Cornucopia, Lucubrate cares about what cards are in play, which is good for a Night card, and it cares about variety, which fits with Cornucopia. The name (which means to write or study, especially at night) doesn't particularly fit.

The card itself seems quite weak, and fairly hard to pull off. It's an okay Copper trasher, but probably weaker at that than Monastery (and definitely weaker overall, as Monastery can trash Estates and Curses from your hand). The discarding is okay. Now, if you just have 4 or 5 cards in your hand, it might be doable to trigger the drawing. But in any kind of engine you are almost certainly going to have multiple copies of multiple cards, which will make triggering the duration ability impossible. Also, you suggested that "if you do manage to trigger its affect, then it will be easier to trigger another lucubrate (Thanks thesaurus) on your next turn." This is wrong, because you will have two copies of Lucubrate in play. It's very hard to have no duplicates by your Night phase. Even Magic Lamp (a card you only need to trigger once) lets you play duplicate Treasures after you have triggered it.









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Jubilee • $4 • Action - Night
If it isn't your Night phase, +1 Card, and +2 Actions.
Otherwise, you may reveal a Fireworks from your hand. If you did, return to your Action phase, then play it.
Quote
Fireworks • $5 • Action - Night
If it isn't your Night phase, +3 Cards.
Otherwise, you may reveal a Jubilee from your hand. If you did, return to your Action phase, then play it.




Jubilee and Fireworks by LTaco
Empires


A pair of Action - Night cards, Jubilee and Fireworks are on a split pile, representing the set they are from, Empires. If played before your Night phase, they are simple engine components, a Village and a Smithy, respectively. During your Night phase, you can play one to reveal the other, returning to your Action phase to play the second card. This is an interesting take on a Night phase ability, borrowing Villa's return-to-Action phase ability (which triggers during your Buy phase), and simulating the +1 Action you get by playing one of the cards.

By itself, a Village / Smithy split pile at +$1 would be interesting, and perfect for engines. In a sense, Village and Smithy are the purest engine components, with Village providing extra Actions to play Smithy non-terminally, and Smithy (hopefully) drawing more Villages to keep things going. The Night ability strengthens this even further, as you can restart the engine even if you have to play a draw card terminally, but only if you have one of each. And even then, you have to choose whether you want to play a Fireworks and get more cards (but risk another terminal collision), or play a Jubilee and have more Actions.

The strength of these cards is mitigated somewhat by the fact that there are only 5 of each. I do suspect that this will often mean the pile gets rushed, and have something of a tendency to push players into an engine strategy (letting your opponent get all of these is bad news). That makes this a little more singularizing than would be ideal, but this is still a really solid entry. I also appreciate what I am almost certain is an X-Men reference.










Bed And Breakfast
Night - Reserve - $3
Put this and a card you would discard from play this turn on your Tavern Mat.
-
At the start of your turn, you may call this to play an Action or Treasure card from your Tavern Mat.



Bed And Breakfast by Commodore Chuckles
Adventures


A Night - Reserve card, Bed and Breakfast puts itself and a card you would discard from play onto your Tavern mat. At the start of your turn you can call it to play an Action or Treasure card from your Tavern mat (presumably, but not necessarily, the card you put on there with B&B). The Reserve mechanic puts it squarely in Adventures mechanically (the name is fine), and interacting with cards in play is a good trick for a Night card.

When I came up with the idea for this contest, but before I won the last one, I designed a bunch of cards with different mechanics from the other sets, and this is almost identical to the one I designed for Reserve cards. Mine only worked with Action cards, and it set them aside on the card. The second one is important, because it prevents a player from playing Reserve cards that got to the Tavern mat by themselves, which B&B allows. My biggest issue there is with Wine Merchant. If you have WM, you can use B&B to move Coppers to your Tavern mat, then call it to play the WM (leaving the Coppers there). This is even stronger if you also have Miser. This works with other Reserve cards as well, but isn't as good (although, if there are no other villages, it could be pretty good with Rat Catcher or Guide). Alternatively, you can also use it to dump non-Action / non-Treasure playable cards (like Monastery when you're done trashing) onto your Tavern mat. That's less of a big deal.

Aside from that (imo busted) trick, the card is pretty similar to Royal Galley, but without the +1 Card. The only difference is that B&B can hold a card past the first turn. While this allows for some better combos, I'm not sure how often I'd take B&B over RG (RG costing more, but the difference between $3 and $4 is not that significant). I can't say this wouldn't have been my submission if I hadn't been hosting the contest, but I don't think I would have won if it had been.








Night Worker
Night - Liaison - Cost:4
+2 Favors per card you've gained this turn.



Night Worker by Joxeft
Allies


Finally, we have Night Worker. A Night - Liaison card, it gives 2 Favors per card gained that turn. Being a Liaison puts it squarely into Allies, and adjusting based on the number of cards you gained is good for a Night card. The name is a bit on the nose, but strictly speaking works.

As I mentioned with Lychnobite, a pure Night - Liaison doesn't work with League of Shopkeepers. Aside from that, this feels a little bit on the strong side. No Liaison all but ensures a player will get +2 Favors. The only ones that give you 2 on-play do so conditionally (Emissary has to trigger a shuffle, Broker has to trash an Estate). Compared to Guildmaster, it gives at least twice as many Favors (more if Guildmaster is played after a gainer). This seems to be giving those Favors out more easily than the other cards.




Thanks for all the submissions. There were a lot of interesting takes on using a Night card. Judging Night cards is also harder than I expected

There also seems to be some new participants. Welcome, and I hope you'll continue to participate.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 07:40:50 pm by emtzalex »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2022, 07:39:39 pm »
+3


Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights


The Results

Thanks to everyone who participated. Here are the results:


Honorary Mentions:

Cat Burglar by Xen3k

Wolf by 4est

Tomb Raider by CaptainReklaw




Third Place:

Embark by Dubdubdubdub




Second Place:

Jubilee and Fireworks by LTaco













Winner:

Thieves' Guild by scott_pilgrim
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2022, 07:49:23 pm »
+2

Wow. well, I guess I actually have to get into the judge's head to win these sorts of things, huh. When I originally created this card, it seemed the consensus was that Last Watch was fine as-is, but your comments are going to be taken into consideration. I hope my other two cards weren't as op as you think this one is.

Congrats to scott_pilgrim! I hope the next contest is as cool as this one was!
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2022, 08:37:27 pm »
+1

Thanks for the (very unexpected) win! (And thanks also for finding the time to judge despite being so busy!)

The next contest will be up soon.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2022, 09:13:36 pm »
0

This was an ambitious design, but it ended up being much too powerful. 

Welp, you can't say I didn't try. Thanks for the feedback though; split pile fan cards aren't really done and I'm glad I could get a bit of grasp on the power level of them. Might update this a bit in the future to be more balanced.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest #159: Some Nights
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2022, 08:57:06 am »
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@emtzalex the level of detail you went into for judging each card was impressive. Thank-you
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