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Author Topic: Weaver  (Read 563 times)

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dirkdebeule

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Weaver
« on: July 03, 2022, 02:32:46 am »
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The Wiki says: “When discarding multiple Weavers, if playing one of them triggers a reshuffle (e.g. it gains a Cavalry, then you can't play any of the other Weavers”
Can someone explain this in detail because I don’t get the interaction between Weaver and the reshuffle.
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Ingix

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2022, 03:32:26 am »
+3

When you discard a Weaver it goes to your discard pile. If you then play it via its triggered ability, you get it out of your discard pile and put it into play, then do it's effect.

Some time ago a rule was changed, that now says that in order for a card to be played, it needs to be where the effect that plays it expects it to be (with some exceptions that aren't relevant here).  The Weaver's Reaction expects it to be in the discard pile. If the discard pile was shuffled in the mean time, the Weaver left the discard pile, so the rule kicks in an prevents you from playing that Weaver.

In practical terms, the card is really "lost", it's at an unknown location inside your deck now.
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dirkdebeule

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2022, 03:51:12 am »
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Are you sure your not confusing with Trial?
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Awaclus

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2022, 05:50:03 am »
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Are you sure your not confusing with Trial?

Weaver works the same way.
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dirkdebeule

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2022, 06:05:59 am »
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Ok, lets say this counts for the first weaver (the reshuffle thing ), but how to explain why you can’t play afterwards the next weavers you have to / can discard and want them to gain silvers ?
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Ingix

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2022, 06:34:48 am »
+1

The question opened with:

> The Wiki says: “When discarding multiple Weavers,

This is about discarding multiple Weavers at once, at the same time. They all go to your discard at the same time, then you handle their Reactions one after the other.

That's how "discard your hand" or "discard down to 3 cards in hand" are supposed to happen (this will be in the Hinterlands rulebook and was a question of debate for some time).
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dirkdebeule

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2022, 07:28:06 am »
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The Stop Moving Rule says: “If a card isn't where the effect would expect it to be, or has moved away from there and then back, it can't move the card.” It does not say “can’t play the card”. So I think the Weavers still can be “played” meaning execute the discard function. 
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AJD

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2022, 08:56:26 am »
+1

The Stop Moving Rule says: “If a card isn't where the effect would expect it to be, or has moved away from there and then back, it can't move the card.” It does not say “can’t play the card”. So I think the Weavers still can be “played” meaning execute the discard function.

There's a recent rule modification from Donald X. io the effect that if you can't move a card into play, you can't play it (with a carve-out exception for Throne/Horse-type situations, because everybody loves Throning their Horses).
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dirkdebeule

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2022, 09:57:56 am »
+1

Ok
So: when you have 0 cards in your deck and:
- Opponent plays Militia
 -> You discard e.g. two Weavers
      -> you “move” one Weaver back from discard pile to your Play Area to play it
      -> you gain e.g. a card which says “+ 2  cards when gaining” and put it on the other Weaver in discard pile
      -> you shuffle discard pile which becomes complete deck and get 2 cards from it in hand
      -> the Stop-moving rule is activated on the second Weaver
      -> second Weaver is not in discard pile anymore ( where it should be to activate te discard function of playing it), so you can’t “move” it to your play area and can not play it.
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Jeebus

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2022, 07:08:52 am »
+1

The Stop Moving Rule says: “If a card isn't where the effect would expect it to be, or has moved away from there and then back, it can't move the card.” It does not say “can’t play the card”. So I think the Weavers still can be “played” meaning execute the discard function.

There's a recent rule modification from Donald X. io the effect that if you can't move a card into play, you can't play it (with a carve-out exception for Throne/Horse-type situations, because everybody loves Throning their Horses).

Yes, for a long time the lose-track rule (or stop-moving rule) was: If a card is lost track of, it can't be moved (but it can still be played). But in 2021 a new rule was added: If a card is lost track of, it can't be played either - with the exception that Throne Room variants can replay it. So if you Throne Room a Mining Village and trash the Mining Village the first time you play it, you can still replay it. The new rule mainly limits interactions with Faithful Hound and Vassal, Village Green and Vassal, and discarding several Village Greens. Trail and Weaver work the same as Village Green.

Jack Rudd

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Re: Weaver
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2022, 08:41:08 am »
+1

Yes, for a long time the lose-track rule (or stop-moving rule) was: If a card is lost track of, it can't be moved (but it can still be played). But in 2021 a new rule was added: If a card is lost track of, it can't be played either - with the exception that Throne Room variants can replay it. So if you Throne Room a Mining Village and trash the Mining Village the first time you play it, you can still replay it. The new rule mainly limits interactions with Faithful Hound and Vassal, Village Green and Vassal, and discarding several Village Greens. Trail and Weaver work the same as Village Green.
Of course, if you're discarding several Village Greens in practice, what you'll probably do is activate the "play next turn" option with some of them rather than forcing a lose-track, but the option is there.
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