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Author Topic: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3  (Read 9036 times)

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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2022, 12:31:19 pm »
+3

Potentially fun combo with Berserker: Duration + Barbarian + Berserker

You have a Duration card in play. Your opponent plays a Barbarian, trashes a $6 Action card. You gain a Berserker, and play it. Could be especially fun if your opponent had drawn a lot of cards before playing that Barbarian
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Chappy7

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2022, 12:59:22 pm »
+2

I’m personally sad to see I’ll gotten gains go. Another copper strategy bites the dust. But I am glad to Silk Road go. And now we have 2 militia variants in one expansion awesome.

One card that mentions Copper =/= "Strategy"
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2022, 04:00:31 pm »
0

Haven't played any yet, but at first glance this looks like you hit it out of the park.   All these look great and all the replaces are great too.  I will actually miss silk road, but trail looks really neat too
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GendoIkari

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2022, 04:06:22 pm »
0

Is Berserker's "if you have an action in play" condition primarily there to stop it from screwing people over in the first 1-2 turns?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2022, 05:09:08 pm »
0

Any reason why Haggler doesn't say "gain a card you bought" kind of like the new Swamp Hag? It seems just like a clearer/simpler version of "gain a card, if you bought it".
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2022, 05:10:28 pm »
0

I wonder why Berserker isn't a Reaction card; it seems to meet all the requirements.

GendoIkari

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2022, 05:13:14 pm »
0

I don't know how I feel about the fact that playing a card from the Trash automatically means that the card is now part of your deck. We know from many other Command card examples that playing a card, leaving it there, does not cause the card to become part of your deck. It seems somewhat counterintuitive that "leaving it there" now means not only that the card doesn't move, but it also has an extra meaning that the card doesn't become part of your deck. I guess there's a new rule that any card that ends up in your play area automatically becomes part of your deck?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2022, 05:15:05 pm »
+3

I wonder why Berserker isn't a Reaction card; it seems to meet all the requirements.

No "when you gain this" cards are Reactions... Trail is specifically because of the Discard part.
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CaptainTheo

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2022, 05:35:44 pm »
+3

Oh, I just realized that with Trail's reaction, this is the first non-Night card that can be played during the Night phase! Trash it with Bat or Exorcist, and you can use its reaction to play it. Of course, you won't be able to do anything with the +1 Action, and unless you draw another Night card, you won't be able to do anything with that draw, but at least you avoid losing the card that way
Another way you can play a non-Night card during your Night phase is if you gain a card (either costing up to $4, or an Imp) with Devil's Workshop, and play it with something like Innovation.


Also I notice from the Dominion Wiki that the man depicted on Berserker is based on the same person as for Navigator.
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mDuo13

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2022, 06:22:43 pm »
+4

Also I notice from the Dominion Wiki that the man depicted on Berserker is based on the same person as for Navigator.

Based purely on the art, it looks like Dale Yu has an awful lot less hair and a lot more anger at the world than he did back when Seaside 1st edition came out. I guess it has been a pretty tough 13 years or so. I like to imagine that the character depicted in both cards might also be the same person after some tough years at sea or something. Unclear what the other cards in his traveller pile would be though!
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trivialknot

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2022, 06:46:13 pm »
+3

The ex-cards are all cards that I liked in principle, but are limited by how much they suck in practice.

Silk Road, the alt-VP that rewards slogs.  I like Alt-VP, and one less alt-VP card means it shows up slightly less often.  But the experience was usually very similar to Gardens, but narrower.  Gardens is already fairly narrow.  When is Silk Road better than Gardens, when half of your deck is Victory cards?  Isn't that the same condition for Scout being good?

IGG, a peddler variant that instead of drawing a card makes your opponent draw one card less.  Or a relic variant, if you prefer that analogy.  This isn't that strong as a baseline, and it's worse if your opponent can trash or sift the curse.  The main thing it had going for it was the IGG rush, which was fun for being a different experience, but arguably made the game worse.  I'm sure there are many ways to fix this card, maybe we'll see them in the future, or in variants.

Noble Brigand, I wish it trashed treasures besides silver and gold.  But it was a stepping stone to Bandit so I can't complain.  And Berserker, now that's an interesting card.

I remember at the time it came out, Hinterlands was more complex than previous sets, and it seemed like some cards just put multiple unrelated abilities together.  Mandarin puts together the on-gain ability, the +$3, and the topdecking ability, how do those gel together exactly?  Well maybe it never really gelled for Mandarin, but it gelled for Jack of All Trades.  Since then, card complexity has gone up, so the complexity of Hinterlands doesn't stand out as much.  What stood out was how Hinterlands pushes larger more money-ish decks.  Besides Spice Merchant, all the trashers are liable to gain more cards than they trashed (Trader, Develop, Jack of All Trades).  The villages are relatively non-standard and awkward (Border Village, Crossroads, Inn, and now Trail).  I like that the new cards preserve Hinterlands' invisible theme while also promoting more visible elements of the theme.
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AJD

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2022, 06:52:49 pm »
+3

I don't know how I feel about the fact that playing a card from the Trash automatically means that the card is now part of your deck. We know from many other Command card examples that playing a card, leaving it there, does not cause the card to become part of your deck. It seems somewhat counterintuitive that "leaving it there" now means not only that the card doesn't move, but it also has an extra meaning that the card doesn't become part of your deck. I guess there's a new rule that any card that ends up in your play area automatically becomes part of your deck?

That's not an "extra meaning" for "leaving it there"; that's the entire meaning of "leaving it there"—you leave it where it is, instead of putting it in your play area. Trail doesn't say "leaving it there" (i.e., in the Trash), and the text of Trail specifies that the card may be in the Trash, so Trail self-playing from the trash moves it into the play area for the same reason that Golem playing a card moves it into the play area from set-aside-cards land. The stop-moving rule doesn't apply the way it would for say, Throne/Horse because Throne doesn't know to look for the Horse in the supply; but Trail does know to look for itself in the trash.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 06:53:51 pm by AJD »
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Donald X.

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2022, 12:15:31 am »
0

Is Berserker's "if you have an action in play" condition primarily there to stop it from screwing people over in the first 1-2 turns?
Yes.
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Donald X.

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2022, 12:15:56 am »
0

Any reason why Haggler doesn't say "gain a card you bought" kind of like the new Swamp Hag? It seems just like a clearer/simpler version of "gain a card, if you bought it".
Both wordings were obvious and I went with the one that seemed better here.
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AJD

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2022, 01:40:22 am »
+2

Is Berserker's "if you have an action in play" condition primarily there to stop it from screwing people over in the first 1-2 turns?
Yes.

My fiancé just played Necropolis using Way of the Owl and pulled it off anyway. 😁
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2022, 01:50:16 am »
+1

I’m personally sad to see I’ll gotten gains go. Another copper strategy bites the dust. But I am glad to Silk Road go. And now we have 2 militia variants in one expansion awesome.

One card that mentions Copper =/= "Strategy"

Interestingly Silk Road was one of the strategies where additional Coppers weren't such a bad idea
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 01:51:41 am by NoMoreFun »
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Jeebus

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2022, 07:01:33 am »
0

(Additional ruling: If you gain or trash Trail during Clean-up (with Improve), you can't use its reaction.)

Why is this ruling needed, since it says "other than during Clean-up" on the card?

-Mission: Clarifies that you can still buy Events.

So "Projects" was forgotten then. Hinterlands has neither after all.
EDIT: Forgot that Mission wasn't in Hinterlands.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 07:36:35 am by Jeebus »
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Ingix

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2022, 07:25:42 am »
+3

[
-Mission: Clarifies that you can still buy Events.

So "Projects" was forgotten then. Hinterlands has neither after all.

The obvious: Mission is from Adventures, which has Events, but no Projects.

Those errata are simply what the next printing of the card will say (as currently planned). Putting the reminder on Mission is supposed to help with the kinds of cards a player is guaranteed to have around. If they also have Renaissance, they will most likely make the leap to see that those can be bought as well.

That this errata was published now, at the end of Hinterlands 2E preview, has more to do with the fact the digital changes are easier to make and more importantly easier to distribute. Instead of waiting for each set to be reprinted with a few cards changing and chaning it online then, the changes were combined to a big one.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 07:26:49 am by Ingix »
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Jeebus

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2022, 07:35:47 am »
+1

How does Trail interact with Militia variants ("discards down to 3 cards in hand")? Do you end up with 3 cards in hand or 4, if you discard a Trail to someone else's Militia?

You pick and discard all at once, then react one by one. So you would have 4 in hand.

Where is this ruling from? The last ruling I have read about this, and I'm pretty sure the last one from Donald in this forum, is that you discard one at a time for Militia (the way it had been from the start).

vidicate

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2022, 09:18:16 am »
0

How does Trail interact with Militia variants ("discards down to 3 cards in hand")? Do you end up with 3 cards in hand or 4, if you discard a Trail to someone else's Militia?

You pick and discard all at once, then react one by one. So you would have 4 in hand.

Where is this ruling from? The last ruling I have read about this, and I'm pretty sure the last one from Donald in this forum, is that you discard one at a time for Militia (the way it had been from the start).

Aren’t you one of the people that (constantly) fact-checks the FAQs, including “other rules clarifications”? See Village Green. Related: Have you been playing that when you draw 1 with VG’s reaction in response to a Militia-effect, that you immediately discard again? That scenario is the same as the question I was answering.

But back to the discard all-at-once question: The quote you linked doesn’t seem definitive at all. @MrSir712 makes a great point in that thread (emphasis added)-
Quote
But my original point was that following basic logic: out of any group of cards that is discarded, the one which appears on the top of the discard pile must be visible. Now if the cards are discarded individually there are no groups (as the only card in each "group" is the one being individually discarded) and as such each player in any physical game has the right to demand the names of each card discarded individually, and that is absurd.
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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2022, 09:40:08 am »
+3

(Additional ruling: If you gain or trash Trail during Clean-up (with Improve), you can't use its reaction.)

Why is this ruling needed, since it says "other than during Clean-up" on the card?

Presumably to clear up the ambiguity over whether "other than during Clean-up" applies to all three abilities, or only to the discarding
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vidicate

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2022, 09:54:42 am »
+1

First impressions, haven’t played any preview cards yet:

Berserker looks so cool. Another straight gainer Attack like Vampire, yay! The main reason I love Mercenary and Catapult is that they are so unique as the only straight trasher Attacks. And the Knights, of course (Anna and Natalie). (Donald, pleeease don’t remove Mercenary, like you hinted in your past “what-if” Dark Ages 2E musings.)
Haha I just imagined these two in the same kingdom—Skirmisher + Berserker, lulz. I think they might actually be the same dude, when he’s both on and off duty, or perhaps before and after unemployment ;D ;D Oh! Maybe that’s why they can’t trigger each other’s attack :o Yep, that’s now my head-canon.

Cauldron looks solid. Nice to pick up for just the convenient +Buy, at a minimum. And the Curse is a cool extra while engine building. Also, it has good synergy with terminal gainers/remodelers.

Trail- first thought was “why does this cost 4?”, but I have to assume it was tested at cheaper prices and had some cwazy explosions at 2 and even 3 coin. Someone was saying it’s superior to Fortress. I recently played a Broker+Fortress engine (with Upgrade and some help from Fishing Village). It was nice to keep trashing (TfB) the same Fortress (and play them when you draw multiples) to both build and draw the deck. If I had Trail instead, I think the main difference is I would need a couple more copies of Trail for the consistency and I wouldn’t be able to spam the Upgrades as much, on the other hand I could easily skip the Fishing Villages. If it was an Apprentice engine instead, Fortress is probably favored over Trail.
Thematically, it feels like Trail and Tide Pools would be good names for Victory cards. Hey, did you hear about Farmland and Trail? So I decided to grow crops on the old road behind my property, and wouldn’t you know it—as soon as we started tilling the soil, my remaining servants decided to blaze a new path across the other side of my land and inexplicably found gold in the stream running nearby! What a whacky time that was.

I’m glad the other cards (Develop, Margrave, Fool’s Gold) that people were predicting for removal didn’t get cut. You guys had me scared, although I don’t get Fool’s Gold very often. IGG is fun, but I won’t miss it too much—been there, done that. I always thought Nomad Camp could just be $3, although I guess that can give some swingy/imbalanced openings. Nomads feels very solid at its price point though. Someone was saying Witch’s Hut looks worse than Embassy? You nuts, mayn. Embassy was fine, but WH looks far more desirable to me. The main thing I like, at first sight, is they’re both soft-terminal (meaning cards that can deal with “over-terminaling”), but with WH you are much happier with collisions.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2022, 06:20:11 pm »
+1

I don't know how I feel about the fact that playing a card from the Trash automatically means that the card is now part of your deck. We know from many other Command card examples that playing a card, leaving it there, does not cause the card to become part of your deck. It seems somewhat counterintuitive that "leaving it there" now means not only that the card doesn't move, but it also has an extra meaning that the card doesn't become part of your deck. I guess there's a new rule that any card that ends up in your play area automatically becomes part of your deck?

That's not an "extra meaning" for "leaving it there"; that's the entire meaning of "leaving it there"—you leave it where it is, instead of putting it in your play area. Trail doesn't say "leaving it there" (i.e., in the Trash), and the text of Trail specifies that the card may be in the Trash, so Trail self-playing from the trash moves it into the play area for the same reason that Golem playing a card moves it into the play area from set-aside-cards land. The stop-moving rule doesn't apply the way it would for say, Throne/Horse because Throne doesn't know to look for the Horse in the supply; but Trail does know to look for itself in the trash.

What I mean is that before Trail, it was never known that a card moving to your play area caused it to be part of your deck. Maybe that should have just been obvious, but nothing ever mattered for it.  Without such a rule, “leaving it there” only would affect a played card’s location; not its ownership. Because that rule exists, “leaving it there” now also prevents the card from becoming yours.

It was the same when Fortress was released. A new rule had to be added, specifically written or not, that says that a card you don’t own moving to your hand causes that card to be part of your deck.
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vidicate

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2022, 09:05:52 pm »
+2

Interesting. I’m going to use the word “acquire” to denote a card becoming your card (i.e. it is included in your deck at end of game, unless at some point it is “unacquired”).

Ways to acquire a card (edit: assuming the card wasn’t already yours):
* Anytime you gain a card, in any way and for any reason.
* A card is passed or put into your hand. Precedent: Masquerade, Fortress
* Anytime you Exile a card.
* Anytime you set aside a card. Precedent: Inheritance
     * (unless the original instruction later moves the card somewhere else you don’t control(?), e.g. the Supply) Precedent: none?
* Anytime you play a card edit: in your play area. Precedent: Trail
* (edit) Anytime you take a card in exchange for another.
—hypotheticals—
* A card is put or passed into a zone you control, e.g. deck, play area, Tavern mat. Precedent: none, other than the scenarios already covered

That was fun. Did I miss any? I thought I could come up with more hypotheticals, but alas I am tired this week.

And I’ll leave it someone else for the unacquire list. :D
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 01:52:12 pm by vidicate »
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2022, 10:34:11 pm »
0

After playing for a while I am here to report that Cauldron actually sucks.  By the time you are ready to gain three actions, you might as well just buy a province.  Usually buying enough 2s and 3s to activate it means your engine is a lot weaker.  Truth be told it would be a great card if it were the second action and not the third action.

It's a 5 cost woodcutter that in very limited situations can give out a curse?  :o Gross

even donald x says so in the explanation

Cauldron isn't tied to gaining Cauldrons, so it doesn't empty its own pile, just the Curses, and it's not even great at emptying those. But it's a Silver with a +Buy so it doesn't have to always Curse them. And it ties into the when-gain theme, being better with cards like Border Village.
[/s]

misread the card.  Looks much better now.  :P

The other 2 are great though.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 01:16:01 am by Honkeyfresh »
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