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Author Topic: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3  (Read 10583 times)

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Donald X.

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Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« on: June 29, 2022, 03:00:11 am »
+15



Noble Brigand is a fixed Thief, and yet still too weak. Bandit turns out to be the actual fixed Thief.

Berserker is another Attack that attacks right away. But the Attack is more meaningful, and it comes with more stuff.



Ill-Gotten Gains is a cute concept, but in practice makes for bad experiences. It was hard to even try to make a replacement along the same lines; I don't want games to be about emptying a certain pile that also empties the Curses, plus the Duchies.

Cauldron isn't tied to gaining Cauldrons, so it doesn't empty its own pile, just the Curses, and it's not even great at emptying those. But it's a Silver with a +Buy so it doesn't have to always Curse them. And it ties into the when-gain theme, being better with cards like Border Village.



Silk Road was another borderline card. The experts were sure they didn't have to see it any more. I couldn't just replace it with another Victory card though - they take two extra cards, and the update pack just had room for one extra card. Hinterlands is no longer the set with 3 Treasures, 3 Victory cards, 3 Reactions; now it's, 2 Treasures, 2 Victory cards, 6 Reactions.

Trail is such a thing of beauty. It's like the most Hinterlandsy Hinterlands card. It plays into both the when-gain and filtering themes, and is a Reaction. You can imagine a board where there's no combo for it, but really it never happens.

Three cards got errata. As you know, I was avoiding while-in-play and also when-buy. So. Farmland is now when-gain. To avoid loops with Fortress, it can't gain Farmland. That was just the simplest fix. Haggler is this-turn; now you can Throne Room it. It still cares about bought cards, because it had to, but it triggers on gains like everything else. And then Highway is also a Throne-able this-turn.

Here's the set:



All together, the three update packs amount to 27 new cards - a full expansion, out of nowhere.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 03:20:19 am by Donald X. »
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2022, 03:07:19 am »
0

These are all really really cool! Sad to see Silk Road go, but Trail looks absolutely amazing. Throneable Highway sounds bonkers, but I like bonkers.
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faust

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2022, 03:28:03 am »
+6

Trail is such a thing of beauty. It's like the most Hinterlandsy Hinterlands card. It plays into both the when-gain and filtering themes, and is a Reaction. You can imagine a board where there's no combo for it, but really it never happens.
Fun story: I just started a game being unaware that there final previews were out, and saw Trail. "Cute card" I thought, then checked the board... there was no combo for it  :P
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NESComplex

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2022, 03:28:35 am »
+1

Trail is going to be super fun!  I love its simplicity and synergy thanks to all the keyword triggers.  Side note… I appreciate these revisions DonaldX… especially the fact that you could’ve just milked these 27 cards for a new expansion, but chose to revise earlier ones instead. Those who criticize your choices do it because they love your game, but as it’s your game (and a more than 15 year creative project) I understand your drive to refine and perfect it.
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dz

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2022, 03:28:55 am »
+3

Oops I forgot to do this yesterday. Well for some reason Nomads doesn't have a FAQ in DomBot yet, but I think that card isn't too difficult to figure out.

Guard Dog:
• When you play this, you draw 2 cards, then count the cards in your hand; if it's 5 or fewer, you draw 2 more cards.
• When another player plays an Attack card, you may play this before that Attack resolves; then the Attack still happens (unless you stop it another way, such as with a Moat you just drew).
• So if another player plays Berserker, and you respond with Guard Dog, you'll first draw 2 cards, then discard down to 3 cards in hand.
• As usual playing it means putting it into play and following its instructions.
• If you play this during another player's turn, you discard it from play during that turn's Clean-up.

Souk:
• For example, if you play Souk and have 3 other cards left in your hand, you'd get +$7 (and +1 Buy), and then lose $3 for a net gain of +$4
• You can't go below $0 but might end up with less $ than you started with.
• When you gain Souk, trash up to 2 cards from your hand; you don't have to trash any.

Berserker:
• When you gain a Berserker, if you have an Action card in play you play the Berserker; this means it will go into play, and you'll gain a cheaper card and then the other players will discard down to 3 cards in hand.
• They can still use cards like Moat then.
• If you gain a Berserker with no Actions in play, however, you don't play it.

Cauldron:
• If you gain three Actions before playing Cauldron that turn, then it won't give out a Curse.
• It doesn't matter how many non-Action cards you gained; the third time you gain an Action, each other player gains a Curse.
• This is cumulative if you play multiple Cauldrons.
• This a Treasure, so you play it in your Buy phase, but also an Attack, so cards like Guard Dog and Moat can be used in response to it.

Trail:
• When you play this, you simply get +1 Card and +1 Action.
• When you gain, trash, or discard this, other than in Clean-up, you may play it; see the When Discarded section.
• As usual playing it means putting it into play and following its instructions.
• If you play Trail on another player's turn, the +1 Action won't be useful, and you discard Trail from play in that turn's Clean-up.
• If you trash Trail, playing it means you get the Trail back; it will go into play, and be discarded into your discard pile in that turn's Clean-up.
• This still counts as trashing it; if you Remodel a Trail you can play it and then gain a Gold from Remodel, and so on.

(Additional ruling: If you gain or trash Trail during Clean-up (with Improve), you can't use its reaction.)

And even though these wordings don't change anything, here's a summary of those "non-functional changes" in Ingix's post.

-Philosopher's Stone/Diadem/Horn of Plenty: Dropped "when you play this."
-Young Witch: "Cards from that pile are Bane cards" -> "Its cards are Banes."
-Butcher: Simplified down to "You may trash a card from your hand, to gain a card, costing up to $1 more than it per Coffers you spend."
-Caravan Guard: Dropped reminder text.
-Hireling/Champion: Dropped "this stays in play" (although they obviously still stay in play forever).
-Champion: Clarifies that you get +1 Action "first."
-Mission: Clarifies that you can still buy Events.
-Encampment/Farmers Market/Temple/Wild Hunt/Experiment: "the Supply" -> "its pile"
-Settlers/Bustling Village: Dropped "look through your discard pile".
-Guardian: Now worded like most Duration effects now ("at start of next turn...until then..."). Don't worry about the wording on Monkey.
-Haunted Castle: "puts 2 cards from their hand onto their deck" -> "puts 2 of them onto their deck"
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 04:19:28 am by dz »
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NESComplex

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2022, 03:31:10 am »
0

My only shock was the loss of Silk Road.  I wonder what else was borderline 🤔
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Donald X.

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2022, 03:36:57 am »
+3

Also! RGG says: "We start shipping Prosperity on Thursday and Hinterlands on Friday."
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NESComplex

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2022, 03:38:14 am »
0

Also! RGG says: "We start shipping Prosperity on Thursday and Hinterlands on Friday."

My wallet hurts
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CaptainTheo

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2022, 04:10:29 am »
+1

I guessed wrong about Develop being removed but glad it stayed as I liked it more than Silk Road, which I found was rarely a good buy, and thought Silk Road was a likely removal too.

With Margrave staying, the addition of Berserker makes for two "discard down to three" attacks in the set. Berserker's gain ability looks like it will be equivalent to Workshop except that it doesn't get more powerful with cards that reduce costs.

Trail looks like the most interesting of the three new cards and continues with the theme of adding new reactions. Its discard effect looks very nice, especially in conjunction with something like Witch's House, and its trashing effect looks even better, and superior even to that of Fortress, also making it a great Trash for Benefit card.

Cauldron is consistent with the other two Treasure-Attack cards in costing $5 and providing $2, with a Buy thrown in unlike the other two. It looks like it will synergise well with gainers as this means fewer Actions need to be bought to curse everyone. It has a nice combination with the gaining of Death Cart.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2022, 04:34:19 am »
0

With Silk Road gone it kind of sucks that Farmland survived, as getting rid of 2 victory cards would have allowed for a new card to fill the blanks. On the other hand of the departing cards I kind of miss Embassy but I can't think of any of the other 7 want to keep, so in terms of update packs it's fine.

I would have preferred Margrave disappear over Silk Road, as I have remembered many games where it's been the comeback card (like any good alt VP), while Margrave is just too strong and not fun (and now not even the only Militia style Attack in the set). But you can't get everything you want, and I'm so grateful these sets were updated.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2022, 04:48:10 am »
0

I really wish Trail got an effect that was useful in a buy phase though. Something like +2 buys to be a Travelling Fair, or something like Pawn on top, or Cantrip Anvil/Mountains Gift, or Sky's Gift.

It's such a good design but there are many games where it would have really cool interactions with its trashing and discarding effects, but it will just suck to have it do nothing when you buy it then never line up. Every card can have that problem of being a bad buy, but "this card should work here but it doesn't" is a bad experience.

Still it will be really fun when it works. Looking forward to a pro pulling off an engine where Trail+Horse Traders is the only "village". I haven't cared about "waste of a slot" much since Adventures came out.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 04:50:30 am by NoMoreFun »
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Awaclus

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2022, 07:58:42 am »
+1

BERSERKER is a powerful Militia effect that can act as a Workshop instead if necessary. Oh, and it’s ALSO PROMPT.
TRAIL is a powerful 1-card draw that can act as a nonterminal instead if necessary. Oh, and it's ALSO PROMPT.
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2022, 08:49:26 am »
0

I feel like Silk Road wasn't different enough from Gardens to be its own card. I also have a particular fondness for cards that are when-gain and when-trash, so I'm happy to see a few of those.

I'm excited to get this new "expansion". It's basically like getting three expansions this year!

mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2022, 09:36:46 am »
0

Trail looks like it'll be lots of fun with any Remodel variant or trash-for-benefit

Cauldron would work really well with cards like Experiment and Port which make it easier to hit that 3 Actions. Supplies would also be a great combo with it
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BlackHole

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2022, 09:53:29 am »
0

Trail is cwazy just because of the way how it avoids getting put into the trash
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 09:54:44 am by BlackHole »
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navical

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2022, 09:57:51 am »
+1

How does Trail interact with Militia variants ("discards down to 3 cards in hand")? Do you end up with 3 cards in hand or 4, if you discard a Trail to someone else's Militia?
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vidicate

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2022, 10:07:39 am »
+1

How does Trail interact with Militia variants ("discards down to 3 cards in hand")? Do you end up with 3 cards in hand or 4, if you discard a Trail to someone else's Militia?

You pick and discard all at once, then react one by one. So you would have 4 in hand.

Also, because of this, if you discard multiple cards, react with a Village Green, choose to draw now which causes a reshuffle, then any remaining reactions you discarded can’t trigger.
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vidicate

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2022, 10:11:44 am »
+2

Still it will be really fun when it works. Looking forward to a pro pulling off an engine where Trail+Horse Traders is the only "village".

Thank you, now I very much want to take my horses down the trail to make some extra sales ;D
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2022, 10:44:03 am »
0

I’m personally sad to see I’ll gotten gains go. Another copper strategy bites the dust. But I am glad to Silk Road go. And now we have 2 militia variants in one expansion awesome.
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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2022, 12:17:39 pm »
0

Berserker is a fun combo with Collection, assuming there are desirable Action cards costing $4 or less in the kingdom, since it can come with a "bonus" Action in that case

Trails has a ton of combos, and I can't wait to explore more of them. I've already had a game with Trails + Horse Traders and Trails + Remodel, both of which were fun. Remodel a Trail to another Trail and you've got a Lost City effect!

It's too bad the reaction doesn't work during Clean-Up, since otherwise you could Improve a Trail to a $5 card without losing it, but I can see that it makes for simpler wording that way (I guess you could go "When you gain or trash this, or when you discard this other than in Clean-Up" to make the reaction for trashing and gaining work during Clean-Up, but that wording would be kind of weird just for that one combination). It's also interesting that, unlike Fortress, the trash-but-keep is optional rather than obligatory
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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2022, 12:19:56 pm »
+2

Oh, I just realized that with Trail's reaction, this is the first non-Night card that can be played during the Night phase! Trash it with Bat or Exorcist, and you can use its reaction to play it. Of course, you won't be able to do anything with the +1 Action, and unless you draw another Night card, you won't be able to do anything with that draw, but at least you avoid losing the card that way
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faust

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2022, 12:21:59 pm »
+4

Oh, I just realized that with Trail's reaction, this is the first non-Night card that can be played during the Night phase! Trash it with Bat or Exorcist, and you can use its reaction to play it. Of course, you won't be able to do anything with the +1 Action, and unless you draw another Night card, you won't be able to do anything with that draw, but at least you avoid losing the card that way
Any Action can be played during the Night phase with City-State or Innovation.
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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2022, 12:24:35 pm »
0

Oh, I just realized that with Trail's reaction, this is the first non-Night card that can be played during the Night phase! Trash it with Bat or Exorcist, and you can use its reaction to play it. Of course, you won't be able to do anything with the +1 Action, and unless you draw another Night card, you won't be able to do anything with that draw, but at least you avoid losing the card that way

No, wait, Berserker can also be played during Night if gained with a Vampire while you have at least one Action card in play
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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2022, 12:25:08 pm »
0

Oh, I just realized that with Trail's reaction, this is the first non-Night card that can be played during the Night phase! Trash it with Bat or Exorcist, and you can use its reaction to play it. Of course, you won't be able to do anything with the +1 Action, and unless you draw another Night card, you won't be able to do anything with that draw, but at least you avoid losing the card that way
Any Action can be played during the Night phase with City-State or Innovation.

Oh, right, I forgot about those
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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 3
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2022, 12:26:15 pm »
0

Oh, I just realized that with Trail's reaction, this is the first non-Night card that can be played during the Night phase! Trash it with Bat or Exorcist, and you can use its reaction to play it. Of course, you won't be able to do anything with the +1 Action, and unless you draw another Night card, you won't be able to do anything with that draw, but at least you avoid losing the card that way
Any Action can be played during the Night phase with City-State or Innovation.

And subsequently, any Treasure.
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