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Author Topic: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1  (Read 7134 times)

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Donald X.

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Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« on: June 27, 2022, 03:00:12 am »
+17

Hinterlands 2E! What were the odds. But here it is.

Each day for 3 days I'll show 3 cards leaving, and the 3 replacing them, and talk about all six. The last day will throw in the miscellaneous minor errata, and then more minor errata, for other sets. Oops that errata's been spoiled already somehow. Well it will happen then.

As with the other two sets, I had no specific objective for Hinterlands beyond... actually, you know what? This set could use more of a theme. I love having lots of when-gain cards, but it's just a bit invisible. What about... Reactions? The set already has three of them. Yeah, let's go with that. A Reactions subtheme. And then, just taking out bad-to-print cards for good-to-print ones.



Mandarin is very weak. You heard it here. Good rules of thumb: never get involved in a land war in Asia; don't buy Mandarin.

Weaver has no relation to it; Mandarin was doing nothing for the set. Weaver is a Reaction, starting in on that new subtheme. It's a Workshop, and you can play it when you discard it. Also fitting Hinterlands' other invisible theme, which is filtering.



Embassy is dull but okay; it lost out on numbers. It was a borderline card that people really didn't need to exist.

Wheelwright is unrelated. You discard a thing to gain a thing. Another way to discard those Tunnels and Weavers. And note that it's the second new way to gain cards, for the set where cards do things when you gain them.



Oracle isn't weak or strong really, but it's crazy slow. It's the bane of playtesting; they endlessly flip over the card you actually wanted to playtest. I haven't played with it in years, except for one game to make sure I really wanted to get rid of it. I did.

Witch's Hut again ties into the filtering theme. It's both the new Embassy and the attack that replaces Oracle.

As usual, the preview cards will be playable on dominion.games; in fact for those of you who aren't subscribing, previews will include all of Hinterlands.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 03:13:00 am by Donald X. »
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NESComplex

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2022, 03:14:02 am »
+1

I love the the gain-chain potential!
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dz

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2022, 03:18:28 am »
+3

I'm back with more FAQs.

Weaver:
• You either gain 2 Silvers, or a card costing up to $4 (which might be a Silver).
• You can play this when you discard it; see the When Discarded section. (Oops we can't read it yet. Well you already know Tunnel/Faithful Hound/Village Green.)
• As usual playing it means putting it into play and following its instructions.
• If you play it on another player's turn, it's discarded in that turn's Clean-up.

(Additional ruling: This doesn't work with Elder.)

Wheelwright:
• You may discard any type of card, but can only gain an Action card.
• If you discard an Action card, you can gain a copy of it.

(Additional ruling: if you do discard, you have to gain an Action card if there is one to gain)

Witch's Hut:
• You reveal the discarded cards even if they aren't both Actions.
• If they're both Actions - even if they also have other types - each other player gains a Curse.

(Additional ruling: Yes this reveals Patron.)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 03:27:32 am by dz »
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Augie279

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2022, 03:21:03 am »
+5

Surprised Embassy got cut. Also rip Mandarin-Capital for the three people who cared about that.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2022, 03:51:38 am »
0

Embassy I rarely played with it. Honestly it was on my hate list and then overtime put it as a mediocre. So I’m happy to see embassy replaced. There’s only one card I disliked more in this set. It’s replacement wheelhouse is interesting I could see myself discarding an estate for a 2$ action card or a discarding a silver for a 3$ action or a duchy/province for a 5$ action card. Plus it lets you draw a card and gives you an action. So far wheelhouse is my favorite.

Mandarin was cool at first because you could ensure you have enough to buy a 5$ card the next turn, but that could also mean it would be longer before you could play actions. Plus the action of the card was mediocre at best. And then I didn’t find myself wanting more than one mandarin in my deck. So mandarin went from being cool to close to the bottom of the barrel, there’s only 4 cards I dislike more than mandarin. It’s replacement weaver is a reaction. Which is going to have some synergy with oasis, margrave, cartographer, ect. I like when there’s a new card in the synergy. I think I’m going to like weaver a lot.

Oracle I liked it a tiny bit more than mandarin, but the attack I’ve always found weak and with the benefit i only disliked 5 cards more. It’s replacement witch’s hut is interesting, just think if you discarded to weavers with it. You could gain 2 cards costing up to 4$/4 silvers and give everyone a minus point card plus of course by drawing 4 cards first. It would be quite the combo, heck I would do another action if I could if I only had one weaver. So obviously this will have synergy with weaver too! Not bad, not bad at all. Still might be worth doing if you played the witch’s hut and ran out of +actions and then you could put those action cards to use to attack, that’s something totally worth doing unlike embassy, I feel like witch’s hut is a better replacement for embassy.
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CaptainTheo

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2022, 04:23:38 am »
+4

Mandarin was an obvious cut and I won't miss Oracle, which I found a bit tedious, but I'm stunned that Embassy was cut... thought that one was completely safe! That is definitely a card I'll miss.

At least Witch's hut is somewhat similar and interesting.

There seem to be a lot of new workshop variants lately.

Based on the recommended set it means we know the names of all of the new cards, with one exception, as that identified six new cards, only one (wheelwright) of which appears in this list of previews.
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ossiangrr

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2022, 08:55:26 am »
0

Wheelwright: Can you choose to discard a card when there wouldn't be an action to gain?

For example: The kingdom is all actions of cost 4+, and Tunnel.
Can I play Wheelwright and choose to discard Tunnel to trigger its When-Discard effect?

The reason I ask is that the pesky "Do X to do Y" wordings sometimes implies there must be a Y, in some games.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 08:58:33 am by ossiangrr »
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2022, 09:59:02 am »
0

Hey, Hinterlands got a new icon! Is that to prevent confusion with Menagerie?
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Joxeft

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2022, 10:10:49 am »
0

No, its just for second editions (I think).
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Awaclus

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2022, 10:16:30 am »
+2

Why isn't Witch's Hut listed as the replacement for Embassy? It's literally just Embassy with less sifting and the junking attack moved to on-play instead of on-gain.
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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2022, 10:38:54 am »
+1

Wheelwright: Can you choose to discard a card when there wouldn't be an action to gain?

For example: The kingdom is all actions of cost 4+, and Tunnel.
Can I play Wheelwright and choose to discard Tunnel to trigger its When-Discard effect?

The reason I ask is that the pesky "Do X to do Y" wordings sometimes implies there must be a Y, in some games.

I would say yes. You do as much as you can do. So, in this scenario, you discard a Tunnel. Then you gain an Action card costing up to $3. In this case, there's nothing to gain, so you don't gain anything. There's no if-clause before the "you may discard a card"
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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2022, 10:40:25 am »
0

Mandarin was an obvious cut and I won't miss Oracle, which I found a bit tedious, but I'm stunned that Embassy was cut... thought that one was completely safe! That is definitely a card I'll miss.

At least Witch's hut is somewhat similar and interesting.

There seem to be a lot of new workshop variants lately.

Based on the recommended set it means we know the names of all of the new cards, with one exception, as that identified six new cards, only one (wheelwright) of which appears in this list of previews.

Yeah, Mandarin required some rather specific combos to really be useful, so I won't much miss it, but I'm really sad to see Embassy go
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IceHot

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2022, 11:04:49 am »
+2

Nice Baba Yaga reference on the Witch Hut
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Whizkid

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2022, 11:13:21 am »
0

It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2022, 11:26:18 am »
0

Liking the new cards. Always bummed to see cards go for a reason other than being terrible - I never had problems with Oracle resolving slowly - but it’s not like iconic cards have left the set. So far this is my favorite 2022 update as far as removed cards goes.
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mxdata

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2022, 11:46:51 am »
+1

Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far
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J Reggie

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2022, 11:49:43 am »
+1

Embassy was fun to get in games where silver was junk, but that rarely mattered anyway because Embassy itself can filter them. And once again I'm loving the new art.

Donald X.

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2022, 11:59:17 am »
+4

Why isn't Witch's Hut listed as the replacement for Embassy? It's literally just Embassy with less sifting and the junking attack moved to on-play instead of on-gain.
Because "attack" is a slot and "be Embassy" isn't. And the format I picked doesn't let me show a card replacing two cards; all I can do is mention that in the text.
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Chappy7

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2022, 12:39:50 pm »
+1

Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me.  Love it.  At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.
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trivialknot

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2022, 02:23:40 pm »
0

Oracle and Embassy both had their issues, but in general I do like the idea of a draw card that sifts while only increasing handsize by 1.  It's a limitation makes engine building a bit more challenging, sometimes producing wheel-spinning engines that barely increase handsize at all.

Glad to see the concept live on in a much more interesting card, Witch's Hut.  It seems like the choice of whether to discard actions may often be an interesting decision.  I expect that sometimes it will lead to snowballs, where one player hands out almost all the curses.  In other games, it may lead to terminal draw decks that are happy drawing actions dead.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2022, 03:01:36 pm »
0

Witches Hut. So good they had to give it two piles!   8)



This actually happened 2 games in a row.  But the third it did not...  :o
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2022, 03:11:02 pm »
0

FWIW all of these cards are fairly weak. Some edge application, but mostly they are very pedestrian.  In the games where we played you pretty much had to play non-optimally to even get them in your deck. 

Of the 3 wheelwright is the only one I would probably even buy on a regular basis, but I imagine there would probably be better 5 cost options there.

After really hitting it out of the park IMHO on seaside and prosperity 2E's, this one lands with a thud.  Really underwhelming. 

I mean Oracle at 3 is better than weaver at 4.  Compared to oracle even though it replaced Mandarin (which i really don't like getting) per costs. But even Mandarin is a much better card than this for most decks.

Embassy is better than Witches Hut too as it doesn't really on drawing 2 actions you want to throw away) in mega draw or action engines with little draw Witches hut would be good for a deck (but embassy would be better). I guess Wheelwright holds up vis a viz Mandarin, but not to embassy. Witches Hut will be bought/be ok in games where it's the only draw or curser, but pales in comparison to witch on most boards, which is a fairly weak 5 cost curser.

Maybe more play will change my opinions as it's a very small sample size, but I imagine not too many will be excited to see these cards in a halfway decent kingdom.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 03:41:21 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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CuriousMind

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2022, 03:22:47 pm »
+1

If the dominion.games bots had emotions, they'd be sad to see Oracle go — it's one of their favourite cards!  ;D
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2022, 03:38:14 pm »
0

It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.

Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no?  Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Hinterlands 2E Preview 1
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2022, 03:39:33 pm »
0

Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far
In oner game I played we both bought witches hut and only handed out 2 curses the entire game
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