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Author Topic: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance  (Read 9298 times)

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timchen

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allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« on: April 03, 2012, 08:13:08 am »
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It has been quite a while after my first attempt at a puzzle. While the desired effect is much easier to achieve now with Scheme, it is still interesting to see Pearl Divers and Havens to have their day.

Ok, back to the main topic.

What is the complete dominance in Dominion? You and your friend were chatting after he beat you by more than a hundred points with massive Goons. (No worries, it is solely due to his early unbelievable lucky draws.)

"Just like what I did to you!", he said.

"Or when I kill your deck with multiple saboteurs? Or when I fatten your deck with coppers, estates, and curses and then cruise to victory?" While you are thinking, your friend just couldn't stop.

"what you are describing is massacre," you said, "sure it is a big win, but there is no intricacy, no elegance in it. And it can be pulled off by anyone, by better luck. Exactly like what you just have done."

"How about this", you contemplated for a while, "after you have set up your deck, you have no money to spend and only 1 buy per turn..."
"Ha. You must be thinking about the Horn of Plenty Mega turn aren't you", your friend interrupted.
"No, not at all. It's indeed a bit more intricate, but the win is usually not lopsided in those HoP games," you said.

"So after you have set up the deck, you have no money and no extra buy, yet after several turns, with all your opponent can do to stop you, you still end up with all the Colonies in your deck. How's that?"

"Highway to the end?" Your friend hesitated.
"Come on. even if you played all 10, the Colony still costs $1."

EDIT:

"Highway enough to Ironworks or Upgrade/remake/remodel?" Your friend then suggested.

"Oops. I didn't think of that. Apparently I didn't have enough sleep. Or maybe there is a good reason why I was beaten." You thought in your mind.

"Nah. That would be a stretch to be called as dominance. Your opponent literally has to sit there and wait for you to set that up."
You said so, but with uncomfortable feelings that once your friend knew what you were thinking he would complain for the same. Well, there is no clear cut distinction here, you always need some form of incompetency from the opponent to dominate him... 


"Alright, I give up. What is the scenario you have in mind?"

You shook your head and smiled. "That's what separates between us. If I were asked I certainly won't give up just after a minute or two. The loss is just pure bad luck." Of course you didn't say it out loud; this line is just what you were thinking.


The Challenge
1. 2-player game.
2. You end up with all 8 Colonies at the end of game.
3. In the engine-setup phase, your opponent is sufficiently incompetent. You can assume it is equivalent to he is passing every turn. In this phase you can have any numbers of coins and buys, but you are not allowed to buy any Colony.
4. After your deck setup is completed, that is, in your scoring phase, your opponent will do whatever he can to stop you from getting all the Colonies, even in the situation when he is clearly hopeless to win. In this phase you are not allowed to play any treasure, or any card that offers +buy or +coin. You can have them in your deck though.
5. In the setup phase, you may assume perfect luck or not, since your opponent is doing nothing it doesn't matter. In the scoring phase however, you should play with worst luck.
6. What is your idea of complete dominance?

EDIT: to clarify, the opponent won't magically have any card in their deck. However, they will try to acquire cards that will stop you with perfect luck in your scoring phase. I am sorry that I missed a big bunch of tricks there. They are all legitimate solutions to the original problem. For people who are still interested in my intended problem, here's a big constraint/hint:

7. You don't gain any cards (unless your opponent forces you to do so) in any of your turns in your scoring phase.

It's probably too big a hint; but you would get the idea why I think this is dominance.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 02:18:59 pm by timchen »
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DStu

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 08:41:26 am »
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I'm sure that's not what you want, but you could KC-Highway-Ironworks 8 Colonies quite easily. Assuming perfect shuffleluck, which can be simulated with Schemes probably. KC-KC-HW-HW-HW prepared on your deck draw you up to 9 cards. 5 Schemes in the deck (actually 2 are enough because of KC) are cantrips so they replace themselfs, and we just need to find KC-KC-IW-IW-IW to gain the Colonies, that's just 5 cards, so assuming we don't have anything else in the deck (Island) or say just one Chapel, that should work.

:e If I may not take IW, because they would give coin if I choose treasure just take Workshop.
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Galzria

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 08:58:51 am »
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I'm sure that's not what you want, but you could KC-Highway-Ironworks 8 Colonies quite easily. Assuming perfect shuffleluck, which can be simulated with Schemes probably. KC-KC-HW-HW-HW prepared on your deck draw you up to 9 cards. 5 Schemes in the deck (actually 2 are enough because of KC) are cantrips so they replace themselfs, and we just need to find KC-KC-IW-IW-IW to gain the Colonies, that's just 5 cards, so assuming we don't have anything else in the deck (Island) or say just one Chapel, that should work.

:e If I may not take IW, because they would give coin if I choose treasure just take Workshop.


That alone wouldn't work, as King's Court + Highway only reduces the cost by $1. Highway suffers from the same problem that Goons does, in that "While this card is in play" only applies to the original play, not the King's Court / Throne Room plays. However, I see no problems in having 8 Highway's in deck, followed by King's Court x2, + IW x3. However, I do believe that your opponent, in "doing all he could" to stop you, could mess around by playing a simple Masquerade, or even KC masquerade in this case - making it less than optimal.

Equally inelegant, would be something like King's Court x2 + Possession x3. Even if he possesses you, there is nothing he can do, and you're going to get 9 straight turns using his deck. This is still stopped by a simple Masquerade though.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 09:05:43 am by Galzria »
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

DStu

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2012, 09:21:01 am »
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That alone wouldn't work, as King's Court + Highway only reduces the cost by $1.

<- Has obviously not played enough the last weeks...

@opponent: He has not much choice, as you only need one turn, and he needs at least 3 to buy the Masq and play it.
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Galzria

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2012, 09:35:22 am »
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Perhaps this is a little bit less susceptible Masquerade pins:

Cards in play from previous turn:

Caravan x9

Cards in deck:

Curse x10
Upgrade x9
Highway x10

With 28 cards in your deck, 9 of which are curses, each hand on average should have at least 1, if not 2 curses in the starting 5 (~%32); This should provide enough of a buffer that even a KC+Masquerade combo can be softened (If it's fed by a Goons first, you still won't be crippled, and you'll be drawing 9 cards to open your turn). Even hand reduction attacks shouldn't hurt, and anything he sends over via Ambassador will be handled just like the curses. Once it's your turn, starting with 14 cards (or 12 if you had to discard), you can, with perfect shuffle luck, play out your Highway's, followed by Upgrading Curses into Colonies - Which, to me, is about as cruel as you can be. 1 turn, 8 cards, 12 point swing per card - However, if you want to make this work more frequently without the shuffle luck, add 9x Farming Village's to your deck (to skip curses), maybe 9x Scrying Pools, and perhaps 9x Embassy's (although now you've added a terminal, which could hurt your starting hand more than it helps your entire deck).

« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 09:37:38 am by Galzria »
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

jonts26

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2012, 09:53:41 am »
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I haven't worked out the exact details but ..

10 highways reduces cost to $1. Upgrades/Remakes can turn anything into colonies. In fact just 2 KC'd remakes could get you there. So you just need to set up your deck to be able to draw 10 highways, 2 KC, 2 Remakes and 10 other cards. Maybe store them on the NV mat.
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RisingJaguar

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2012, 10:07:42 am »
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Perhaps this is a little bit less susceptible Masquerade pins:

Cards in play from previous turn:

Caravan x9

Cards in deck:

Curse x10
Upgrade x9
Highway x10

With 28 cards in your deck, 9 of which are curses, each hand on average should have at least 1, if not 2 curses in the starting 5 (~%32); This should provide enough of a buffer that even a KC+Masquerade combo can be softened (If it's fed by a Goons first, you still won't be crippled, and you'll be drawing 9 cards to open your turn). Even hand reduction attacks shouldn't hurt, and anything he sends over via Ambassador will be handled just like the curses. Once it's your turn, starting with 14 cards (or 12 if you had to discard), you can, with perfect shuffle luck, play out your Highway's, followed by Upgrading Curses into Colonies - Which, to me, is about as cruel as you can be. 1 turn, 8 cards, 12 point swing per card - However, if you want to make this work more frequently without the shuffle luck, add 9x Farming Village's to your deck (to skip curses), maybe 9x Scrying Pools, and perhaps 9x Embassy's (although now you've added a terminal, which could hurt your starting hand more than it helps your entire deck).

Couldn't the other person buy the other caravan?
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Galzria

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2012, 10:20:44 am »
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Perhaps this is a little bit less susceptible Masquerade pins:

Cards in play from previous turn:

Caravan x9

Cards in deck:

Curse x10
Upgrade x9
Highway x10

With 28 cards in your deck, 9 of which are curses, each hand on average should have at least 1, if not 2 curses in the starting 5 (~%32); This should provide enough of a buffer that even a KC+Masquerade combo can be softened (If it's fed by a Goons first, you still won't be crippled, and you'll be drawing 9 cards to open your turn). Even hand reduction attacks shouldn't hurt, and anything he sends over via Ambassador will be handled just like the curses. Once it's your turn, starting with 14 cards (or 12 if you had to discard), you can, with perfect shuffle luck, play out your Highway's, followed by Upgrading Curses into Colonies - Which, to me, is about as cruel as you can be. 1 turn, 8 cards, 12 point swing per card - However, if you want to make this work more frequently without the shuffle luck, add 9x Farming Village's to your deck (to skip curses), maybe 9x Scrying Pools, and perhaps 9x Embassy's (although now you've added a terminal, which could hurt your starting hand more than it helps your entire deck).

Couldn't the other person buy the other caravan?

True enough - Although as Jonts points out, with Highway x10 ANY card can be Upgraded into a Colony, so perhaps the Curse pile need not be empty. And honestly, with just 5 or 6 Caravan's, you would be in a good starting spot. Especially if your deck has the Farming Village's / Scrying Pools.

Also, I'm not 100% clear, but my assumption was that while your opponent has been "effectively" passing each turn you build your engine, once you're revved up, his deck "magically" is as well. That is, his deck has everything he wants to counter-attack you / prevent you from winning. Yes, under those circumstances he could buy... well, he could win all by himself in a single turn many, many different ways - but I don't think his goal is to win / end the game. It's to prevent you from winning.

Now, if he is starting from 7 Copper, 3 Estate, hand size 5, there is nothing he can do, and you'll win every time (especially if you leave, say, 2 caravan's in the supply).

That is why I assume the worst thing he can do to you, is KC + Goons + Masquerade. I can't think of anything else that could potentially disrupt your deck more. Unless he plays Possession. :-P
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Deadlock39

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2012, 11:03:57 am »
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My interpretation of opponents doing anything to stop you was that they would play optimally during player interaction (Envoy, Masquerade, Ect.) not that they magically have the perfect counter to your strategy when you are ready to gain Colonies.  Perhaps not, but I would be surprised if there is an answer that is completely immune to KC/Masq and all the other nasty things that could be done.

WanderingWinder

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2012, 11:10:05 am »
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My interpretation of opponents doing anything to stop you was that they would play optimally during player interaction (Envoy, Masquerade, Ect.) not that they magically have the perfect counter to your strategy when you are ready to gain Colonies.  Perhaps not, but I would be surprised if there is an answer that is completely immune to KC/Masq and all the other nasty things that could be done.
Except that they have to start building that only after a while. Meaning that if after your build-up phase, you get everything in one turn, they won't have time to even buy a masquerade, let alone KC or do something with it.

Deadlock39

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 11:41:46 am »
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Yeah, I had that thought too.  It just seems some of the discussions were going the route of "Strategy A would work, but it has no defense against KC+Masq, so an opponent doing everything to stop you would break it."  I didn't really think that was the intention of the puzzle, so I wanted say so.

DStu

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 11:45:21 am »
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Yeah, I had that thought too.  It just seems some of the discussions were going the route of "Strategy A would work, but it has no defense against KC+Masq, so an opponent doing everything to stop you would break it."  I didn't really think that was the intention of the puzzle, so I wanted say so.

Yepp, I think it's this way. If it can KC-Masq, it could also KC-KC-Poss-Poss-Poss, and than have fun with minimal shuffle luck. Or just Plat-Plat-Copper, buy Colony. Good luck gaining 8 Colonies after that.
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Galzria

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2012, 11:54:17 am »
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The problem is, it's two ends of one spectrum:

Either your opponent cannot do anything except pass until your engine is built, in which case there is NOTHING he can do to stop you from winning;

OR

Your opponent "effectively" passes for simplicity's sake (that is, he is not hampering you during your "construction" phase), but when you're ready to move into a buying phase, his deck is set up as well.

In the second case, yes, your opponent can have a deck that is designed to buy a single Colony, or all 8, or do whatever he wants; therefore, I read the condition of "your opponent will do whatever he can to stop you from getting all the Colonies" to mean that his intent is STOPPING you, not trying to win himself. (And for the record, if he bought a Colony, you could still pull Possession / Ambassador shenanigans to get it back, or Possession / Masquerade).

When all is said and done, I'm looking at creating a strategy that takes the nastiest set of circumstances that your opponent can produce directly against you, and try overcome them. The first strategy that I listed, I believe would often (not always) negate a KC-KC-Goons-Masq play. It would NOT deal with KC-KC-Possession x3.

So I ask you, what would?
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

DStu

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2012, 11:59:49 am »
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... to mean that his intent is STOPPING you, not trying to win himself. (And for the record, if he bought a Colony, you could still pull Possession / Ambassador shenanigans to get it back, or Possession / Masquerade).

The point is, winning is a very good strategy if you want to stop someone from something (beside losing).

And I think there is nothing that can deal with Possession, let alone KC-Possession. We assume worst shuffle for you, that is best shuffling for you opponent. So anything you could do by construction can also be done by your opponent, even more. So if you have a strategy to gain 8 Colonies, your opponent also has it via Possession, but he is even more powerfull.
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Deadlock39

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2012, 12:33:05 pm »
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Yeah, I am just pretty convinced (even without Possession) there cannot possibly be a strategy that can stand up to a deck that is just designed to brutally attack you and nothing more.  Such a deck could play a stack of King's Courts, a few Margraves to obliterate any previous turn deck stacking you attempted (and knock you down to 3 cards), then play Saboteur 30 times, and finish it off with a King's Courted Masquerade with no cards left to pass you.  Of course, Lighthouse produces coins, so we can't even protect ourselves that way. (Edit... I guess you could have a Moat, so this point is kind of pointless.)

The only thing that you could possibly have left after something like that would be a bunch of cards you saved with Haven.  Perhaps that is the solution? Can you buy all 8 Colonies with 10 Haven'ed cards that don't produce coin?

Perhaps if I just have all the King's Courts in my deck, the opponent can't have them, but if the opponent isn't buying Colonies to stop you, is he also not allowed to 3 pile to stop you?  In that case, I can just buy every single card on the board, and he can't build anything at all.  Is the opponent playing from his own personal Kingdom where he can create the prefect attack?

Possession as with most puzzles completely warps the rules if you think about your opponent being allowed to Masquerade you an Ambassador and then play Possession 30 times. That would certainly screw up anything you possibly could have set up.

I've gone too far... I guess I just like reading and thinking about puzzle threads that actually have a solution, and I really don't think this one does if your opponent is allowed to play KC+Masq or other such nasty things. 

Anyway... A quick glance through the thread, gives me one solution that can stand up to anything but Possession (which I firmly believe has no possible defense).  Set up any of the previously mentioned solutions on your Native Village mat, and then Haven a Native Village for your super turn.  Your opponent can trash every card in your deck if he wants, and you will still be able to have your Colonies.

DStu

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2012, 12:39:53 pm »
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I don't understand why you all insist that your opponent magically gains all these cards to the deck while the puzzle only says
Quote
4. After your deck setup is completed, that is, in your scoring phase, your opponent will do whatever he can to stop you from getting all the Colonies, even in the situation when he is clearly hopeless to win.
which does not really support this, AND this would obviously spoil the puzzle. So why not just assume he has to play by the rules, which is a good starting point for an implicit assumption anyway?

I mean, if literally "your opponent will do whatever he can to stop you from getting all the Colonies", I can imagine lots of things beside the rules (and/or the law) that for sure stops me from getting the Colonies, but somehow I don't have the impression that the puzzle is about killing me.
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Deadlock39

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2012, 12:43:28 pm »
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Just to clarify... I am definitely in agreement with you DStu.  I think I went a bit too far overboard explaining my thoughts on how that interpretation...

...would obviously spoil the puzzle.

Galzria

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2012, 12:45:41 pm »
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That's just it. The issue is a little too black and white. Either he can have anything he wants/needs, or he can't. That is, either he wins, or he looses (If he must start from having passed every turn, all he has is 7 copper, 3 estate in his deck. He cannot, under any circumstances, prevent you from winning). So I was trying to open it up a little by saying that he was not *directly* trying to win, rather, he was trying to stop you from doing so (and stopping you by winning himself is invalid under those circumstances).

I agree that little is going to stop Possession (or more directly, KC+Possession). I don't believe that you having "the worst" shuffle luck is synonymous with him having "perfect" shuffle luck, but I think trying to solve "Opponent trying to prevent you" is more to the heart of the puzzle. You could, however, have a single moat in your hand to stop most "attacks" (obviously Possession and Masquerade are not attacks), but it would stop Goons, Militia, Margrave, etc.

My argument that he has the deck he wants stems from:

Quote
3. In the engine-setup phase, your opponent is sufficiently incompetent. You can assume it is equivalent to he is passing every turn. In this phase you can have any numbers of coins and buys, but you are not allowed to buy any Colony.

Hence, my earlier assertion:

Quote
Your opponent "effectively" passes for simplicity's sake (that is, he is not hampering you during your "construction" phase), but when you're ready to move into a buying phase, his deck is set up as well.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 12:51:09 pm by Galzria »
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

timchen

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 01:58:54 pm »
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I am sorry for the confusion here. Yeah, the real problem is that I overlooked the obvious highway+remake/ironworks/upgrade trick. (Or for that matter, you can just massive draw and remodel all your Platinums.) So congrats to those who have pointed this out. If you are still interested in my intended problem, please see the edit in the original post.
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DStu

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2012, 02:54:28 pm »
+1

This one does not quite work, but it is just so mean:

reduce your deck to NativeVillage,KCKCMasqGoons and a bunch of cards on the NV mat

repeat NV+pin until opponents deck is empty, then empty the mat.

Play KCsx3Possession+pass 3xPlat+Ambassador to opponent (everything needed taken from the NV-mat), use 8 turns of the opponent to buy each a Colony and ambassador it to you the next turn. Ends 7-1 Colonies because game ends before you can pass the last Colony.
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timchen

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2012, 03:05:39 pm »
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It actually works as you will gain the Colony immediately in his possessed turn. Don't even need to ambassador it. And yes, this is almost my intended solution. In some sense my intended solution is even meaner.

To further constraint the puzzle: you don't possess him so many times in a single turn such that he has no more chance to play his own turn. You would be kind enough to allow him to play his own turn a few times to show him that he is powerless to stop you.
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DStu

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2012, 03:11:24 pm »
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<- Has obviously not played enough the last weeks...
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Voltgloss

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2012, 03:29:32 pm »
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My solution lets the opponent have one, but only one, turn to himself.  An utterly useless turn.

1. Setup Phase

- Assemble KC/Masquerade/Goons. Use this to trash the opponent's entire deck.
- After having done this, release the pin and start gathering Ambassadors, Cities, at least three Possessions, between one and nine Caravans, and at least one Silver.
- Use Ambassador to send all ten Cities to your opponent, plus one Silver. 
- Then accumulate nine of the ten Chapels.  Use them to trash everything in your deck (including Chapels) except for: 
--- King's Court x2
--- Possession x3
--- Chapel x1
--- between 1 and 9 Caravans
- Wait to trash the last extra card(s) from your deck until you're able to do so while also playing at least one Caravan.
(The only empty supply pile by this time is Cities.)

2. Scoring Phase

- Your opponent has one chance to do something on his turn, but with ten not-fully-activated Cities and one Silver all he can do is buy something that costs $2.
- Thanks to last turn's Caravan, you get to draw 6 cards.  This is either KC/KC/Poss/Poss/Poss/Chapel, or some combination of KC/Poss/Chapel/Caravan.  Play enough Caravans to get KC/KC/Possx3 together, then play it.
- On the first possessed turn, use your opponent's one Silver to buy yourself the last Chapel (unless he helpfully did so already himself).  Now his Cities all give +$1 and +$1 Buy.
- On each of the remaining eight possessed turns, use your opponent's ten fully-activated-Cities and one Silver to buy yourself a Colony.
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timchen

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2012, 03:51:11 pm »
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I guess technically that is a solution, but it is somewhat abusing the constraint I have set.

The biggest downside is that you have to draw a very clear line between your setup phase and scoring phase. That is fine, but not the spirit of the puzzle. I said it is equivalent to he is passing every turn; this means that 1. he is not going to grab the cards that you need, 2. He is not going to attack you or build a faster engine to screw everything. It doesn't mean that he will just wait and pass and till you say "OK" and suddenly find he has 10 cities and a silver in hand and can do nothing. For one thing, in the spirit of the puzzle, he can buy a chapel himself when you are buying the chapels and use it to trash his cities. That certainly is "equivalent to passing" in the sense I explained above.

Also, the key in this solution is still a one turn kill with enough possessions.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: allfail's puzzle #3: the Complete Dominance
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2012, 04:04:02 pm »
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I'm pretty sure constraint 4 rules out any solution involving Goons, Militia or Margrave. Doesn't that put the (standard) Masq pin out of the question?

Edit: Nevermind, those happen in the setup phase.
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