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Author Topic: Emissary and Stash  (Read 548 times)

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majiponi

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Emissary and Stash
« on: June 07, 2022, 10:39:41 am »
+1

My deck is empty. My discard pile has nothing but a Stash.
I play Emissary.
I topdeck that Stash.
Did I shuffle?

(2) I topdeck that Stash with Star Chart. Did I shuffle?

I assume both Emissaries give me +1 Action and +2 Favors, but I am not sure.
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vidicate

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Re: Emissary and Stash
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2022, 11:57:41 am »
+1

Sounds right to me. Stash and Star Chart trigger on shuffle, and they don’t cancel the shuffle nor change it to something else that’s no longer called a “shuffle”.
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Donald X.

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Re: Emissary and Stash
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2022, 03:20:30 pm »
+5

Emissary says: "+3 Cards / If this made you shuffle (at least one card), +1 Action and +2 Favors."
Its FAQ says: "First draw 3 cards; then see if drawing those cards caused you to shuffle. If it did, you get +1 Action and +2 Favors. It only counts as shuffling if at least one card was in your discard pile."

It is seeming way simpler, and true to those texts, if all that Emissary cares about is that you had that one card in your discard pile. Emissary cares if you shuffled; it says "at least one card" to try to be clear. Star Chart says "When shuffling..." I sure think players will expect that you shuffled; there Star Chart is doing its thing, which only happens when you shuffle.

So then: If you play Emissary with e.g. 2 cards in your discard pile, but then due to Order of Masons you have no cards to physically shuffle, Emissary doesn't mind, you still get the bonus. I'm glad that was just tentative before.
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Jeebus

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Re: Emissary and Stash
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2022, 09:02:12 am »
0

What Emissay should say to make this unambiguous:

If you have less than 3 cards in your deck, +3 Cards, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Otherwise, +3 Cards.


Or, if it's ok that the Favors can be used to pay for Order of Astrologers/Masons:

If you have less than 3 cards in your deck, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Then, +3 Cards.


Wizard_Amul

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Re: Emissary and Stash
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2022, 10:36:28 am »
+1

What Emissay should say to make this unambiguous:

If you have less than 3 cards in your deck, +3 Cards, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Otherwise, +3 Cards.


Or, if it's ok that the Favors can be used to pay for Order of Astrologers/Masons:

If you have less than 3 cards in your deck, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Then, +3 Cards.


Close, but this doesn't work--if you play Emissary when you have no cards in your discard pile, you shouldn't get the +1 Action and +2 Favors (nothing to shuffle).

How about this:

If you have at least 1 card in your discard pile and fewer than 3 cards in your deck, +3 Cards, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Otherwise, +3 Cards.


Or, if it's ok that the Favors can be used to pay for Order of Astrologers/Masons:

If you have at least 1 card in your discard pile and fewer than 3 cards in your deck, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Then, +3 Cards.
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Jeebus

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Re: Emissary and Stash
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2022, 11:08:38 am »
0

Close, but this doesn't work--if you play Emissary when you have no cards in your discard pile, you shouldn't get the +1 Action and +2 Favors (nothing to shuffle).

How about this:

If you have at least 1 card in your discard pile and fewer than 3 cards in your deck, +3 Cards, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Otherwise, +3 Cards.


Or, if it's ok that the Favors can be used to pay for Order of Astrologers/Masons:

If you have at least 1 card in your discard pile and fewer than 3 cards in your deck, +1 Action and +2 Favors.
Then, +3 Cards.


Right! Too bad, then this solution is not that elegant anymore.

Maybe just replacing "(at least 1 card)" with "(with a non-empty discard pile)" would be an improvement.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 11:11:27 am by Jeebus »
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scolapasta

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Re: Emissary and Stash
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2022, 12:20:01 pm »
0

What about just:

Quote
If this would make you shuffle...

Though I know we went away from "would" with Trader, it's still used on some other cards.
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Donald X.

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Re: Emissary and Stash
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2022, 01:47:20 pm »
0

What about just:

Quote
If this would make you shuffle...

Though I know we went away from "would" with Trader, it's still used on some other cards.
A good starting point is to assume that every time "would" is used, it's a huge mistake. And then work from there.

As usual I like having a good wording for normal game situations; no-one is ever using Order of Masons to make their draw not work. Maybe there is a great wording I missed, but the shuffling check is normally easy to understand.
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