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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...  (Read 3030 times)

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Galaxi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2022, 05:30:08 pm »
0

This cannot be fixed via changing the costs. The simply problem is that the gift for the other players is not much of a gift in the presence of DoubleSplitters that do nearly the same thing as the Artefact.

If the Kingdom card did something else, a Baracks Artefact would be much stronger.

Saying that the power level of the card can't be fixed by changing the cost seems crazy to me. I don't see how this wouldn't almost always be worse than Port at 4 for instance. What am I missing?
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2022, 05:42:58 pm »
+2

This cannot be fixed via changing the costs. The simply problem is that the gift for the other players is not much of a gift in the presence of DoubleSplitters that do nearly the same thing as the Artefact.

If the Kingdom card did something else, a Baracks Artefact would be much stronger.

Saying that the power level of the card can't be fixed by changing the cost seems crazy to me. I don't see how this wouldn't almost always be worse than Port at 4 for instance. What am I missing?

I think what he means is that the concept of the card can't be fixed by changing the cost. The problem with Charitable Village isn't necessarily the power level, it's that the Artifact and the effect of the card are redundant. The effect of the card makes the Artifact's Barracks effect nigh irrelevant.
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Galaxi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2022, 06:03:40 pm »
0

This cannot be fixed via changing the costs. The simply problem is that the gift for the other players is not much of a gift in the presence of DoubleSplitters that do nearly the same thing as the Artefact.

If the Kingdom card did something else, a Baracks Artefact would be much stronger.

Saying that the power level of the card can't be fixed by changing the cost seems crazy to me. I don't see how this wouldn't almost always be worse than Port at 4 for instance. What am I missing?

I think what he means is that the concept of the card can't be fixed by changing the cost. The problem with Charitable Village isn't necessarily the power level, it's that the Artifact and the effect of the card are redundant. The effect of the card makes the Artifact's Barracks effect nigh irrelevant.

In certain kingdoms that might be true, but I feel like most of the time it isn't. Having an extra action at the start of your turn is wildly different than having it somewhere in your deck. If a village is your only source of +2 action, you often NEED to get it in your starting hand to even get the engine going that turn. +1 action at the start of turn makes the requirements for your starting hand way looser. And this is on top of already requiring the kingdom to be properly engine-heavy, otherwise the 2 actions per turn with another strategy, or for instance with another +2 action card, might very well be better. I'm by no means a top player, and I also have limited experience with full random, but having a kingdom where everything aligns for this card's artifact to be irrelevant seems like it can't happen often enough to make it uninteresting.

Edit: I can also add for reference that I have access to base+renaissance+menagerie when I playtest, in case that matters
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 06:07:08 pm by Galaxi »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2022, 10:42:04 pm »
+3

Builder
Action - $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Choose one: +$1, or take the Hammer.

Hammer
Artifact
The first time you shuffle on your turn, first gain a card costing up to $4.

I wanted to make an Artifact that gives interesting tactical choices. If you're not about to shuffle, there's more of a risk that another player will snatch the Hammer away from you before you can use it. And getting stuck with it when all the good cheap cards are gone isn't good either. But maybe you want it at the very end to gain some Estates.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 05:21:49 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2022, 04:09:14 am »
+3

Here is your friendly 24 hour announcement!
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2022, 09:10:49 am »
0

Builder
Action - $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Choose one: +$1, or take the Hammer.

Hammer
Artifact
When you shuffle, first gain a card costing up to $4.

I wanted to make an Artifact that gives interesting tactical choices. If you're not about to shuffle, there's more of a risk that another player will snatch the Hammer away from you before you can use it. And getting stuck with it when all the good cheap cards are gone isn't good either. But maybe you want it at the very end to gain some Estates.

this + warehouse/forums (or other cycling) ends games real fast

unsure whether thats a feature or a bug

Joxeft

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2022, 10:19:55 am »
0

I have withdrawn my submission for a new one.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2022, 10:31:10 am »
0

Builder
Action - $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Choose one: +$1, or take the Hammer.

Hammer
Artifact
When you shuffle, first gain a card costing up to $4.

I wanted to make an Artifact that gives interesting tactical choices. If you're not about to shuffle, there's more of a risk that another player will snatch the Hammer away from you before you can use it. And getting stuck with it when all the good cheap cards are gone isn't good either. But maybe you want it at the very end to gain some Estates.

this + warehouse/forums (or other cycling) ends games real fast

unsure whether thats a feature or a bug
Also, this + Gamble is pretty ridiculous.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2022, 10:31:52 am »
+5



Quote
Greengrocer $2P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
When you buy this, you may overpay. If you do, take the Secret Ingredient
Quote
Secret Ingredient Artifact
At the start of your turn, +P

Hey look a minigame called "buy potion cost cards without a potion".

FAQ: you can overpay by any amount in order to take the Secret Ingredient; do note that overpaying by $0 or by debt doesn't count/is not allowed, per the rules of overpay outlined in the Guilds rulebook.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 07:57:33 pm by spineflu »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2022, 05:21:28 pm »
+1

Builder
Action - $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Choose one: +$1, or take the Hammer.

Hammer
Artifact
When you shuffle, first gain a card costing up to $4.

I wanted to make an Artifact that gives interesting tactical choices. If you're not about to shuffle, there's more of a risk that another player will snatch the Hammer away from you before you can use it. And getting stuck with it when all the good cheap cards are gone isn't good either. But maybe you want it at the very end to gain some Estates.

this + warehouse/forums (or other cycling) ends games real fast

unsure whether thats a feature or a bug

Good point. OP updated.
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2022, 04:04:57 pm »
+7

The contest is closed.
The judging will be in a day or two.

Here's the list of entries I'm judging - let me know if I missed any:

Telescope + Astronomer by Builder_Roberts
Cursed Stone + Road by Joxeft
Seal of Loyalty + Pawn Shop by Augie279
Doorbell + Door by J410
Magic Brew + Scientist Association by fika monster
Quill + Scribe by 4est
Broom + With in Training by faust
Building Permit + Reconstruct by AJL828
Mystery Box + Night Porter by xyz123
Smuggler's Map + Junk by emtzalex
Toolbox + Charitable Village by Galaxi
Hammer + Builder by Commodore Chuckles
Secret Ingredient + Greengrocer by spineflu
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 04:17:31 pm by infangthief »
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2022, 05:51:11 pm »
+5

Judging is ... not here yet. Sorry, very busy few days.
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infangthief

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2022, 01:55:28 am »
+6

Judging at last, thanks for your patience!

Great entries and a lot to think about and admire. I haven't been able to playtest any, so apologies if my estimations are off - I've done my best.

Telescope + Astronomer
by Builder_Roberts
A Laboratory where you get to pick 2 cards from 4 sounds strong already, then the possibility of a free Warehouse effect at the end of your turn. But then $6 is a lot, so maybe ok. An interesting twist might be if the Telescope made you topdeck instead of discard, then you could use it to help set up for regaining it with an Astronomer next turn (though that might increase the game-slowing decisions). Either way, looks like a good Navigator replacement.
Cursed Stone + Road
by Joxeft
Silver with a bonus if you're happy to restrict your buying choices. DXV has said he doesn't like $4 Silver+ cards, because people just buy them when they would have bought Silver anyway. I'm not sure I agree with him, so I'm not going to count that against this card. Cursed Stone is an interesting penalty that will always be relevant - at the very least it prevents you buying more Roads, Silvers or Golds, and there are nearly always Action cards with $ in them.
Seal of Loyalty + Pawn Shop
by Augie279
This does a lot! Double Broker, with the option to get the Artifact. Seal of Loyalty is very useful, especially with future Pawn Shops (if you still have it when you play them). Very good thematically too.
Doorbell + Door
by J410
This seems very weak to me, because discarding a card hurts a lot. At $3 this would be fine. Having Doorbell is an advantage, but using it just gives me a Village with a little bit of sifting, which is hard to get excited about.
Magic Brew + Scientist Association
by fika monster
I like the Magic Brew effect; permanent Transmogrify seems very strong (though I think the wording needs improving - see other exchange cards). And I like the Ally's pick your own Artifact idea, great flexibility. "Usable" would need defining in an FAQ. I think it still has the Importer problem that faust pointed out.
Quill + Scribe
by 4est
Scribe/Quill seems really interesting. At first I thought it was so overpowered, like if you start your turn with Quill then your first Scribe is a Village and all subsequent Scribes are Lost Cities. But then I realised that, if it is that powerful, then you're very unlikely to start your turn with the Quill (but you still have the penalty of 1 fewer card end of last turn). So, a high risk strategy which kind of forces your opponent to mirror you. How does Quill work if you've played Outpost? Finalist
Broom + Witch in Training
by faust
Another step down the Witch ladder, and I like the theme of the Witch school having only one broom to go round everyone. The only way to give out more curses than your opponents is to get extra copies, which is a different dynamic than standard Witch. And very interesting I think. In multiplayer it would be annoying if the player on your left decides not to get any Witches in Training, but that does increase the interdependence of different players' strategies. Finalist
Building Permit + Reconstruct
by AJL828
Remodel variant that gains to your hand. The Building Permit looks like a powerful Artifact that will be fought over, which is good, but getting it is probably hard enough that there is some chance you will still have it at the start of your next turn. There is also the possibility of using Building Permit on the same turn that you get it, if you try hard.
Mystery Box + Night Porter
by xyz123
Quote
Mystery Box
Artifact

At the start of your turn receive the next Boon.
Quote
Night Porter
Night
$3

Choose two: Gain a Horse; +1 Villager; +1 Coffer (The choices must be different).

You may discard a non-Victory card costing $2 or more to take the Mystery Box.
Another strong Artifact that you can get by handicapping yourself. Seems like a great use of Boons and I like the Night Porter options, though I think it should probably cost $4. The choice of whether to take the Mystery Box is probably well balanced in some kingdoms (eg is it worth holding back a Silver to take it?); in others I think you'll hardly ever get to keep the Mystery Box till the start of your next turn, but at least it will be always influencing play. Finalist
Smuggler's Map + Junk
by emtzalex
Laboratories that stay out an extra turn, so long as you play at least one per turn. And if everyone does that then everyone has the Smuggler's Map whenever they need it, all very harmonious. Seems solid, similar to Caravan but with a bit more to think about.
Toolbox + Charitable Village
by Galaxi
A cheap double-Village, with the drawback of giving someone else an extra Action at the start of their turn, which is handy for them for engine reliability. I'd be inclined to make it so all other players start with an extra Action, and increase the cost to $3, but might be fine as is.
Hammer + Builder
by Commodore Chuckles
Quote
Builder
Action - $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Choose one: +$1, or take the Hammer.
Quote
Hammer
Artifact
The first time you shuffle on your turn, first gain a card costing up to $4.
The Hammer ability seems really good, and the Builder choice makes you estimate when you next expect to shuffle. I like "when-shuffle" triggers. I was going to say that a workshop with +$1 already seems too strong for $4, but there is Inventor, so I must be wrong there! Finalist
Secret Ingredient + Greengrocer
by spineflu
A Market with a Potion cost. It's all about getting the Secret Ingredient, for which you will need an ordinary Potion and $3. Then once you've got it you can get Greengrocers really fast, and much easier to get any other Potion-costing cards, until someone takes the Secret Ingredient off you. Fun but very swingy.

So my finalists are:
Quill + Scribe by 4est
Broom + Witch in Training by faust
Mystery Box + Night Porter by xyz123
Hammer + Builder by Commodore Chuckles

... and I'm going for:
Runner-up: Mystery Box + Night Porter by xyz123
Winner: Broom + Witch in Training by faust
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #154: And another thing...
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2022, 04:18:19 am »
+2

Thanks for the win!

I have thought up a new contest, it should be posted very soon.
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