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### AuthorTopic: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health  (Read 3098 times)

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#### faust

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##### Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« on: May 24, 2022, 02:15:33 pm »
+8

Alright, possibly this mechanic is just on my mind because I'm getting married in a month, but let's do it!

I am introducing a new keyword: combine.

You can be instructed to combine any number of cards. To do so, you set them aside together, in order, with some numbered token, and you take the corresponding card from the combinations pile (not in the supply) and put it in your discard pile:

The Combination card gets all types that are on any of the cards set aside with its numbered token. When you play it, you execute all on-play instructions of the set-aside cards in order. That's it! Effectively, all the cards you combine become a single card!

Here is a simple example of what a card using the keyword might look like:

- the cost of the Combination card is the sum of all costs of the combined cards, including Debt or Potions
- the name of the Combination card is the string "[first_card_name] + [second_card_name] + ...". Thus, two Combination cards are considered to have the same name if and only if they are made up of the same cards in the same order (the +s are in the string so that the new name doesn't accidentally turn out to the name of an existing card)
- there are 30 numbered Combination cards by default, and if there is no Combination card left, the setting aside fails. You may specify a different number of Combination cards for your submission though.
- the set-aside cards are not returned to the deck at the end of the game. However, the Combination card is worth any VP of a card it is made up of.
- any when-gain, when-buy or when-trash effects of the combined cards are ignored for the Combination. Other below-the-line effects (while in play, Reactions etc.) carry over to the Combination.
- cost reduction lowers the cost of a Combination by 1, not 1 times the number of cards it is made up of.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 03:13:49 am by faust »
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#### infangthief

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2022, 04:15:42 pm »
+2

Alright, possibly this mechanic is just on my mind because I'm getting married in a month, but let's do it!
Congratulations.

Nice idea (the mechanic. And also getting married.)

A question:
When you play it, you execute all on-play instructions of the set-aside cards in order. That's it! Effectively, all the cards you combine become a single card!
Can a Combination card do below-the-line things like reacting, or "while this is in play" things?
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#### jakav

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2022, 06:20:16 pm »
+3

My submission for this contest is Grow:
 Quote from: GrowGrow  Cost: 2  Action+1 ActionYou may combine a Victory card and another card from your hand.

FAQ: You first get an action, then you combine a victory card from your hand with any other card from your hand.

Feedback is appreciated.

I also have a bunch of questions:

Shouldn't non-landscape cards have a type to tell you to bring out the combination pile?

Can a combination be combined again?

Does it only take one Action to play a combination, not combining the action cost? Or does it take two?

Do combinations essentially have this wording?

Quote from: Combination 1
Play all the set-aside cards with the first token, in the order that they were set aside.

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#### Joxeft

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2022, 06:34:12 pm »
+1

 QuoteTrapper - Action - Cost: 4Combine this with another action card that you have in play that dose not move when it was played.

The idea is to pile up actions even when its combined with other cards.

Feedback is appreciated.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 09:37:35 am by Joxeft »
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#### Erick648

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2022, 08:46:35 pm »
+3

A question:
When you play it, you execute all on-play instructions of the set-aside cards in order. That's it! Effectively, all the cards you combine become a single card!
Can a Combination card do below-the-line things like reacting, or "while this is in play" things?
I'd assume not, or combining Fortress with a self-trasher would let you play it infinite times.
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#### faust

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2022, 01:01:56 am »
+1

A question:
When you play it, you execute all on-play instructions of the set-aside cards in order. That's it! Effectively, all the cards you combine become a single card!
Can a Combination card do below-the-line things like reacting, or "while this is in play" things?
I think given Erick's observation, it will be safest to say that below-the-line effects are ignored, though in spirit I would want that to be possible.
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#### faust

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 01:06:11 am »
0

Shouldn't non-landscape cards have a type to tell you to bring out the combination pile?
No? They're not part of the supply. Spoils and Spirits do not require a special type on cards that use them.

Can a combination be combined again?
Yes.

Does it only take one Action to play a combination, not combining the action cost? Or does it take two?
It takes one Action (or none if the Combination card has Treasure or Night type).

Do combinations essentially have this wording?

Quote from: Combination 1
Play all the set-aside cards with the first token, in the order that they were set aside.
More or less, but this is not a perfect representation. For one, the Combination card may carry a VP value. Also, playing a Combination only counts as a single card play for cards like Conspirator.
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#### infangthief

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 01:55:37 am »
0

Do combinations essentially have this wording?

Quote from: Combination 1
Play all the set-aside cards with the first token, in the order that they were set aside.
More or less, but this is not a perfect representation. For one, the Combination card may carry a VP value. Also, playing a Combination only counts as a single card play for cards like Conspirator.
And it makes a difference for things like vanilla tokens from Adventures. If you were playing all of the set-aside cards then you would get bonuses from any tokens on any of the piles. If you're just following the instructions on each card then you don't.

A question:
When you play it, you execute all on-play instructions of the set-aside cards in order. That's it! Effectively, all the cards you combine become a single card!
Can a Combination card do below-the-line things like reacting, or "while this is in play" things?
I think given Erick's observation, it will be safest to say that below-the-line effects are ignored, though in spirit I would want that to be possible.
That's a shame. Does this mean you only get the VP value of a card if it is not a below-the-line VP?
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#### infangthief

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2022, 02:50:58 am »
0

A question:
When you play it, you execute all on-play instructions of the set-aside cards in order. That's it! Effectively, all the cards you combine become a single card!
Can a Combination card do below-the-line things like reacting, or "while this is in play" things?
I think given Erick's observation, it will be safest to say that below-the-line effects are ignored, though in spirit I would want that to be possible.
How about Combination cards getting a rule that something special happens to them when you trash them? Like, you return it to its pile and trash its set-aside cards. First, before any other "when you trash" effects.
That would allow them to do below-the-line stuff without running into the Fortress problem. (Though there may be other similar problems I haven't thought of.)
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#### faust

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2022, 03:13:12 am »
+1

A question:
When you play it, you execute all on-play instructions of the set-aside cards in order. That's it! Effectively, all the cards you combine become a single card!
Can a Combination card do below-the-line things like reacting, or "while this is in play" things?
I think given Erick's observation, it will be safest to say that below-the-line effects are ignored, though in spirit I would want that to be possible.
How about Combination cards getting a rule that something special happens to them when you trash them? Like, you return it to its pile and trash its set-aside cards. First, before any other "when you trash" effects.
That would allow them to do below-the-line stuff without running into the Fortress problem. (Though there may be other similar problems I haven't thought of.)
I think making a special trashing rule may be confusing. I have now modified to this:
- any when-gain, when-buy or when-trash effects of the combined cards are ignored for the Combination. Other below-the-line effects (while in play, Reactions etc.) carry over to the Combination.
It's also not ideal, but the best I could come up with to maintain most of the functionality.
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#### infangthief

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2022, 05:22:13 am »
0

Do combinations essentially have this wording?

Quote from: Combination 1
Play all the set-aside cards with the first token, in the order that they were set aside.
More or less, but this is not a perfect representation. For one, the Combination card may carry a VP value. Also, playing a Combination only counts as a single card play for cards like Conspirator.
And it makes a difference for things like vanilla tokens from Adventures. If you were playing all of the set-aside cards then you would get bonuses from any tokens on any of the piles. If you're just following the instructions on each card then you don't.

Hmm, if Combination cards don't have any wording on them, then combining a Combination card might not actually do much. (If I'm just following the instructions on the set-aside Combination card, not actually playing that card, all I find is "this is not in the Supply"!)

Perhaps the Combination 1 card should say something like "See set aside group 1"?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 05:36:19 am by infangthief »
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#### infangthief

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2022, 09:12:02 am »
+2

EDIT 26th May - only combine with a Treasure you bought, not just gained some other way.
EDIT 28th May - withdrawing this idea, buying Treasures is no fun, and it does seem a bit broken if you have a way to thin your deck.

Withdrawn v0.1 and v0.2:
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 02:09:27 am by infangthief »
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#### Joxeft

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2022, 09:47:28 am »
+1

Here's my entry:

Quote
Magnet
\$5 Treasure - Night

\$1
If it's your Night phase, combine this and a copy from the Supply of a Treasure that you have gained this turn.
I think that you limit the combine to once and say something like this. If it's your Night phase and this is not a combination yet then combine this and a copy from the Supply of a Treasure that you have gained this turn. This is because that this in some big money decks can sock up and win the game really fast making them about as good as golds or better.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 09:52:48 am by Joxeft »
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#### infangthief

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2022, 10:04:06 am »
+2

I think that you limit the combine to once and say something like this. If it's your Night phase and this is not a combination yet then combine this and a copy from the Supply of a Treasure that you have gained this turn.
I was trying to make a self-combining card that can grow and grow.
To make this one grow you have to put some effort into it - you have to buy (or gain) a Treasure (which is not often something you want to do), and also you have to skip playing the existing Combination in your Buy phase, so you're probably wasting the \$ this turn.

But perhaps it is still too powerful, you might be right. And I was thinking your self-combining Trapper entry was even more crazily powerful!
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#### fika monster

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2022, 02:17:04 pm »
+6

Beep boop

V3 with improved wording (appearently i cant spellcheck)

V4: Ok this should hopefully be maxifully clear.

Quote
Fallen City
Action Duration Attack, \$5
At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards +1 Action.

Until then, at the start of each other player's Clean-up phases, you may choose an action they would discard from play and combine it with a Burden, putting it into their discard pile.

Quote
Burden
Action, \$1*
+1 Card

(this card is not in the supply)

There are Thirty Burdens in the Non-supply, +10 for each additional player
« Last Edit: May 31, 2022, 04:47:09 pm by fika monster »
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#### Augie279

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2022, 03:22:05 pm »
+2

The Workshop of combiners because why not. Can do a lot but needs time to build up its skills.
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they/them

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2022, 04:15:46 pm »
+2

Quote
Partnership
\$5 - Treasure
+\$2.
You may trash a non-Copper card you have in play to combine any two other cards you have in play.

I think the Combine example Event in the OP is strong enough to cost \$5. It'll be a strong effect.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 04:18:29 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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#### GendoIkari

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2022, 04:27:43 pm »
0

Beep boop

Quote
Fallen City
Action Duration Attack, \$5
At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards +1 Action.

Until then, at the start of another player's Clean-up phase, you may combine a Burden with an action card they would discard from play.

Quote
Burden
Action, \$1*
+1 Card

(this card is not in the supply)

There are Thirty Burdens in the Non-supply, +10 for each additional player

Where does the non-Burden card come from here? Do you take it away from the player who would discard it, or do you get a copy of it from the supply and use that?
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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2022, 04:58:00 pm »
0

Quote
Fallen City
Action Duration Attack, \$5
At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards +1 Action.

Until then, at the start of another player's Clean-up phase, you may combine a Burden with an action card they would discard from play.

Where does the non-Burden card come from here? Do you take it away from the player who would discard it, or do you get a copy of it from the supply and use that?
"An Action card they would discard from play" seems pretty clear to me.
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#### Gubump

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2022, 04:59:06 pm »
0

Beep boop

Quote
Fallen City
Action Duration Attack, \$5
At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards +1 Action.

Until then, at the start of another player's Clean-up phase, you may combine a Burden with an action card they would discard from play.

Quote
Burden
Action, \$1*
+1 Card

(this card is not in the supply)

There are Thirty Burdens in the Non-supply, +10 for each additional player

Where does the non-Burden card come from here? Do you take it away from the player who would discard it, or do you get a copy of it from the supply and use that?

I assume the intent is that the opponent combines their to-be-discarded Action with Burden, making it "worse."

@fika monster: If this is the intent, then this is misworded as the rules for combining are stated, as you'd steal your opponent's card as worded. This is my suggestion, assuming my interpretation of your intent is correct:
Quote
Until then, at the start of each other player's Clean-up phases, you may have them combine a Burden and an Action they would discard from play.
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#### Gubump

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2022, 05:06:40 pm »
+1

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#### GendoIkari

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2022, 05:17:38 pm »
0

Beep boop

Quote
Fallen City
Action Duration Attack, \$5
At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards +1 Action.

Until then, at the start of another player's Clean-up phase, you may combine a Burden with an action card they would discard from play.

Quote
Burden
Action, \$1*
+1 Card

(this card is not in the supply)

There are Thirty Burdens in the Non-supply, +10 for each additional player

Where does the non-Burden card come from here? Do you take it away from the player who would discard it, or do you get a copy of it from the supply and use that?

I assume the intent is that the opponent combines their to-be-discarded Action with Burden, making it "worse."

@fika monster: If this is the intent, then this is misworded as the rules for combining are stated, as you'd steal your opponent's card as worded. This is my suggestion, assuming my interpretation of your intent is correct:
Quote
Until then, at the start of each other player's Clean-up phases, you may have them combine a Burden and an Action they would discard from play.

Oh that makes sense, and is a really neat idea for an attack!
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#### Joxeft

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2022, 06:13:27 pm »
+1

This is way to good with 1 lab and a barge this is about as good than buying 4 labs which cost \$20 and 4 buys for just \$8 and 1 buy. I think that you should make this cost like 10 or make it combine 2 \$4 cards instead of 2 \$5 cards and make it cost \$7.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 06:19:50 pm by Joxeft »
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#### spineflu

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2022, 11:55:37 pm »
+1

I went and made a knights-esque unique pile for this.
Sorry in advance. I'll include some commentary about how each one is different.
It should only need 10 Combination cards, since I think I effectively locked out recursion.

General overview:
Each farmer allows terminally* combining of two* differently-named* Action cards*, which lets you take the respective combination card. The farmer stays in your deck and acts as a BoM-esque command card for specifically the cards it* set aside; the cards set aside do not change or shift once set aside*.

Things with an asterisk aren't on every card - that's one of the parameters I played with.
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#### infangthief

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##### Re: Fan Mechanics Week 38: In Sickness and in Health
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2022, 04:12:11 am »
+1

Self-combining on-play (as tried by both Joxeft's "Trapper" and my "Magnet") causes weirdness (if the combining can happen more than once).

The weird thing is that you can end up with a Combination's constituent cards going awol from its set aside area.

Suppose, by combining, you get Combination 1, whose on-play effect includes: "Combine this and X. Trash this."
Now you play Combination 1:
• You combine Combination 1 with X, setting it aside with X and a "2" token, and putting Combination 2 in your discard pile.
• You trash Combination 1, moving it from set aside to the trash. This works because it was Combination 1's own effect which set it aside, so it knows where to find itself to trash itself.
Now what does Combination 2 do when you play it? Presumably it just does X. That is all that is set aside with the "2" token - Combination 1 is no longer there!

The same happens if you self-combine with anything that can move itself. "Trash this", "Set this aside", "Put this on your Tavern mat", "Exile this", "Combine this(!)" etc.

Joxeft, I think your Trapper entry almost avoids this, by only allowing you to combine with a card that is in play (so it must be a card that did not move itself when it was played). But it could still happen because of cards which have optional trashing/moving; you could combine Trapper and Death Cart (which was still in play because you trashed a different Action card with it). So Combination 1 is Trapper+Death Cart. Then when you play Trapper+Death Cart, you could combine it with Village, then you could choose to trash it (i.e. trash Combination 1). So Combination 2 came into existence as Trapper+Death Cart+Village, but quickly became just Village. And Combination 1 (Trapper+Death Cart) is in the trash, available to be gained by anyone with a Lurker.

I'm thinking this is not really a problem, just unexpected weirdness.

And yes, Magnet can combine with another Magnet. Magnet+Magnet could combine itself with X, to briefly create Magnet+Magnet+X, before combining itself with Y. End result is you have two new combinations: X, and Magnet+Magnet+Y.

This is crazy and fun. At least, I think so. Thanks faust.
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