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Author Topic: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes  (Read 1814 times)

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infangthief

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Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« on: May 13, 2022, 07:13:26 am »
+5

This week's Fan Mechanics contest uses a new mechanism I've come up with called Trefoils, described here.

Your challenge is to design a Trefoil.

Things that I'll be thinking about in judging include:
  • Does it encourage you to make interesting decisions, or prioritise different things from normal?
  • How often would it either dominate games or have no impact?
  • Are there particular cards or situations which would make it completely broken?
  • Does it make sense referring to 3 piles, or might it just as well refer to only 1 pile?
  • Thematic flavour.

Contest will close next Friday. Good luck!

Any feedback, questions or comments on the mechanism itself are welcome, either here or in the Trefoils thread. And I reserve the right to tweak the mechanism in response to feedback, but I'll post something clearly if I do!
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Joxeft

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2022, 09:28:13 am »
+3



Feedback is appreciated.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 09:29:17 am by Joxeft »
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2022, 10:57:09 am »
+4

Very interesting idea.

Here is a link to a template in Shard of Honor's card image generator (I'm mostly saving it for my own reference, but I figured I would share with the class).
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

fika monster

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2022, 03:53:29 pm »
+4

Heres my Trefoil take: Both a hindrance AND opportunity. A trefoil Command card if you will.


FAQ:
If the other trefoil cards are gone from the supply, you may not play them, instead following the OG's instruction

If the card is part of a split pile, or an rotating pile, You play the Top action card in it. If the top of the pile is a victory card or treasure, you default to the other Trefoil card. If that one is not available either, you play the Original cards effect.

The bottom under the line effect on the original card still happens, and the simulate

Rationale/design goal for this: Command cards are fun, and i've wanted to do a Command-way in the past, but it doesnt work as a way, either because its busted, or get cumbersomes with limitations. Doing it as a trefoil means that three cards get radically changed in the kingdom.
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Joxeft

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2022, 10:46:05 pm »
+1

Heres my Trefoil take: Both a hindrance AND opportunity. A trefoil Command card if you will.


FAQ:
If the other trefoil cards are gone from the supply, you may not play them, instead following the OG's instruction

If the card is part of a split pile, or an rotating pile, You play the Top action card in it. If the top of the pile is a victory card or treasure, you default to the other Trefoil card. If that one is not available either, you play the Original cards effect.

The bottom under the line effect on the original card still happens, and the simulate

Rationale/design goal for this: Command cards are fun, and I've wanted to do a Command-way in the past, but it doesn't work as a way, either because its busted, or get cumbersome with limitations. Doing it as a trefoil means that three cards get radically changed in the kingdom.
Do you like this image better?
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.fj8DWjIffc2zaF83FE9VlgHaFK%26pid%3DApi&f=1
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2022, 12:00:52 am »
+3

Quote
Heads of the Cerberus
Trefoil
If you have played two differently-named Trefoils this turn, you may buy cards from the trash for $2 less than their cost.
-
Setup: Put one of the Trefoil piles in the trash.

I went first with thinking up something that comes in threes, and then tried to think of something that fits it.
Yes, The Cerberus' heads are the first things that came to mind that comes in threes...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 12:06:08 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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lompeluiten

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2022, 05:18:06 am »
+4

So something like this:

Triple Workshop

Whenever you buy an trefoil card, you may gain another trefoil card costing the same or less $
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spineflu

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2022, 08:15:44 am »
+4


Quote
🙈 🙉 🙊 • Trefoil
Attack type Trefoils do not affect players who did not play them. Directly after another player plays a Trefoil, you may play a Trefoil from your hand.

trefoil attacks are auto-moated
and they are all interrupting/out-of-turn reactions.
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fika monster

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2022, 10:55:18 am »
0


Do you like this image better?
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.fj8DWjIffc2zaF83FE9VlgHaFK%26pid%3DApi&f=1
[/quote]

thanks for the suggestion, but i prefer the Stooges/fools idea. Altough i should find a medieval ish variant
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beri

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2022, 11:33:49 am »
+1

I feel it’s fun if these three cards interact with one another.

When playing a Trefoil card:
- you may treat it as another Trefoil card you have in play.
- you may discard two cards to first play a different Trefoil card from the Supply, leaving it there.
- you may discard a Trefoil card to play the played card twice. (Threene room)
- you may reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Trefoil card. If you do, put that card on top of your deck and discard the rest.

When playing the first copy of a Trefoil card:
- if you have two (three) different Trefoil card(s) in play, each opponent gains a Copper (a Curse and trash a Trefoil card from play).
- if you have two (three) different Trefoil card(s) in play, +$1 (+$2).

When discarding a complete set of Trefoil cards:
- set aside the top 2-3 cards of your deck. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand.
- gain 2-3VP / you may gain a Duchy.
- you may trash one to put the other two on top of your deck.

If you have at least one Trefoil card in play:
- on your turns, Trefoil Action cards can be played without Actions, Trefoil Treasure cards produce +$1.
- when buying a Trefoil card, +$1 +1 Buy.
- during your Buy phase, you may buy cards from the Trash, costing $1 less for each differently named Trefoil card you have in play.

On your turns, Trefoil cards cost $1 less for each copy of them you have in play.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 04:14:12 am by beri »
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2022, 12:24:10 pm »
+5

My Submission:

Quote
Triumvirate • Trefoil
After you finish playing a Trefoil card, you may play an Action or Treasure card from a different Trefoil pile from your hand.


My submission is Triumvirate. It creates a Sauna/Avanto effect with the Trefoil cards, allowing them to be chained (but only if the player has cards from a different pile). The strength of this is going to depend a lot on what cards end up with Trefoil tokens. If they end up on Village + Smithy + Hunting Grounds, it will be stupid powerful, but they are more likely to end up on some mix of engine components and terminal money or attack cards. I don't think it's out of line with something like Lost Arts + Smithy/Torturer.
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fika monster

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2022, 04:13:15 am »
+1


Feedback is appreciated.

This feels rude, but i think this one is far too simple/basic. It doesnt really change the game meaningfully in most games. the way i see it, it usually just makes a strong 5 able to open with.

Some suggestions to keep the "gaining the card more easily" theme:

Put a forum effect on the cards: (so, +1 buy when you buy it)
When you buy X card, you may overpay for another trefoil card

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faust

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2022, 04:33:23 am »
+5



Quote
Knot
Trefoil

The first time you play a Trefoil on any of your turns, reveal your hand and play the revealed Trefoils in any order.
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infangthief

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2022, 04:49:16 am »
+1

Beri, please can you clarify which of these (if any) is your submission?
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beri

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2022, 06:52:43 am »
0

Oh, I wasn’t particularly entering the contest, just giving out ideas for whoever would like them and want to try them. :)
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Joxeft

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2022, 09:14:53 am »
+2

(I have changed my submission)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 10:46:16 am by Joxeft »
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2022, 06:32:48 pm »
+3



Quote
Salt, Sulphur, & Mercury
Trefoil
Once per turn, after you play a Trefoil, you may choose one: Gain a cheaper Trefoil; or exchange it for a Trefoil costing up to $2 more that it.

Makes the Trefoils either gainers (of cheaper Trefoils) or self upgrading(to more expensive Trefoils). This is completely untested and there are certainly going to be Trefoils where this is pretty useless, but there are some combinations that will be bonkers and game warping. Not sure how appealing that is, but this is an interesting idea I had. I was thinking of allowing you to exchange the Trefoil for a non-Trefoil card with the second ability. Salt, Sulphur, & Mercury are the three Principles of alchemy. Feedback is appreciated.
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infangthief

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2022, 09:16:28 am »
0

24 hour warning

Entries so far:

Council by Joxeft
Three Stooges by fika monster
Heads of the Cerberus by LibraryAdventurer
Triple Workshop by lompeluiten
?Three Monkeys? by spineflu
Triumvirate by emtzalex
Knot by faust
Salt, Sulphur, & Mercury by Xen3k
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Augie279

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2022, 12:57:18 pm »
+2



A Trefoil that rewards complete sets. Best to cheer on whoever's behind, giving you benefits for doing so. Probably broken if Horses are selected with this but hey that's thematic so
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infangthief

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2022, 10:17:47 am »
+3

Contest Closed

Entries:

Council by Joxeft
Three Stooges by fika monster
Heads of the Cerberus by LibraryAdventurer
Triple Workshop by lompeluiten
?Three Monkeys? by spineflu
Triumvirate by emtzalex
Knot by faust
Salt, Sulphur, & Mercury by Xen3k
Derby by Augie279
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infangthief

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2022, 05:31:04 am »
+6

Sorry for the delay in getting round to judging. Here it is at last.

Council by Joxeft
Get a coin back after you buy a card. However I think +Buy when you buy a card generally does not work - with cost reduction it allows you to auto-empty a pile, in this case all three trefoil piles.

Three Stooges by fika monster
Interesting, and it's kind of funny how you have to remember to buy different Trefoil cards than the ones you actually want. Ties them together and gives a little bit of command-type flexibility. The downside I see is what happens when there is a big difference in cost between the trefoil piles - eg you could have 6 Grand Market emulators by your second shuffle.

Heads of the Cerberus by LibraryAdventurer
Very thematic (although didn't Cerberus prevent the dead from leaving the underworld?) I assume this is a "in your buy phase" thing, and in setup the trashed pile is chosen at random? A small hurdle to getting access to one pile (and then getting one of them makes it slightly easier to get more of them).

Triple Workshop by lompeluiten
Simple Border Village / Haggler kind of idea, restricted to the three piles. To begin with I misread and thought that gaining another one was compulsory, which I think would actually be more interesting (no I would rather not be getting an extra Chapel with every Village!). But fine as it stands, anyway.

?Three Monkeys? by spineflu
Changes the interaction in the game; instead of attack effects you now have cards being played by everyone. But playing a Trefoil card out of turn is likely to help the active player more than it helps you (as it also lets them play another without using an Action). Fun/complicated in multiplayer working out who's next to make a decision on if they want to play a card!

Triumvirate by emtzalex
A Sauna-Avanto idea is the first thing that came to my mind for Trefoils. This is well-worded, and needing to play them from different piles ties them together well. It seems a bit dominant if one of the trefoil piles gives you terminal draw.

Knot by faust
Good name for a Trefoil (although actually this entry doesn't tie the three piles together as much as some!). Limiting it to only the Trefoil cards that you have in hand at the time feels like an appropriate power level to add interest without making it too dominant. I would recommend setting aside the revealed Trefoil cards to keep you honest and make it easier for everyone to keep track.

Salt, Sulphur, & Mercury by Xen3k
Gaining and exchanging between the different Trefoil cards, which looks entertaining, perhaps even more so if it were compulsory. It's good that it's exchange rather than trash/gain, so the cheaper ones don't run out so fast.

Derby by Augie279
I can't work out if I love this one or hate it. You have to play at least 5 Trefoil cards to trigger it, but then there's a massive jackpot (like horse-racing, right?), so you'll probably try and find a way. Then some combinations of trefoil piles will make it easy and it'll go crazy. Needs clarification on how it would work with split piles. I didn't know what Derbys had to do with '3's until looking on wikipedia, so nice naming!

Lots of great ideas, and several of them became my favourite as I thought about them. But overall I think my two favourite ones are Heads of the Cerberus and Knot.
Cerberus has more going for it thematically, but in the end I think Knot is more interesting more often, so:

Winner: Knot by faust
Runner-up: Heads of the Cerberus by LibraryAdventurer
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fika monster

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2022, 11:23:50 am »
+2

Question: would it have been fine to add "Trefoil cards costing up to X" to avoid the grandmarket or Overlord dillema?

Otherwise, well judged!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 11:25:58 am by fika monster »
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infangthief

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2022, 04:58:16 pm »
+1

Question: would it have been fine to add "Trefoil cards costing up to X" to avoid the grandmarket or Overlord dillema?

Otherwise, well judged!
Yes, maybe "costing no more than this"? But then it probably needs to become optional or else the most expensive Trefoil cards become unplayable. Or you could add something like "Setup: ensure all trefoil piles cost less than $5."

As for Overlord, I think in any case you would need to specify that they can only play non-Command Trefoil cards.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2022, 05:42:48 pm »
+1

Question: would it have been fine to add "Trefoil cards costing up to X" to avoid the grandmarket or Overlord dillema?

Otherwise, well judged!
Yes, maybe "costing no more than this"? But then it probably needs to become optional or else the most expensive Trefoil cards become unplayable. Or you could add something like "Setup: ensure all trefoil piles cost less than $5."

As for Overlord, I think in any case you would need to specify that they can only play non-Command Trefoil cards.

There's another problem with the original language, which is that as it is playing a Trefoil card does nothing but lock a player into an infinite loop:

Say the Trefoil cards are A, B, and C. If you play A, Three Stooges tells you that instead of following its instructions, you should instead play B or C. If you play B, then TS say that instead of following B's instructions, you should play A or C. This continues endlessly, with the player never able to escape the loop. Thus, it should probably be changed to:

Quote
When you play a Trefoil, instead of following that card's instructions, follow the instructions of a card from a different Trefoil pile.

Setup: Only put Trefoil tokens on piles costing between $2 and $5 {or whatever range you want}.
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fika monster

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #37: The Best Things come in Threes
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2022, 06:19:09 am »
0

Question: would it have been fine to add "Trefoil cards costing up to X" to avoid the grandmarket or Overlord dillema?

Otherwise, well judged!
Yes, maybe "costing no more than this"? But then it probably needs to become optional or else the most expensive Trefoil cards become unplayable. Or you could add something like "Setup: ensure all trefoil piles cost less than $5."

As for Overlord, I think in any case you would need to specify that they can only play non-Command Trefoil cards.

There's another problem with the original language, which is that as it is playing a Trefoil card does nothing but lock a player into an infinite loop:

Say the Trefoil cards are A, B, and C. If you play A, Three Stooges tells you that instead of following its instructions, you should instead play B or C. If you play B, then TS say that instead of following B's instructions, you should play A or C. This continues endlessly, with the player never able to escape the loop. Thus, it should probably be changed to:

Quote
When you play a Trefoil, instead of following that card's instructions, follow the instructions of a card from a different Trefoil pile.

Setup: Only put Trefoil tokens on piles costing between $2 and $5 {or whatever range you want}.

oh woops. I considered that, but felt it was clunky adding the text. but the way you wrote it is pretty simple.
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