Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2]  All

Author Topic: WDC 151: Now or Later  (Read 1716 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Galaxi

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Shuffle iT Username: Galaxi
  • Respect: +29
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2022, 11:26:21 am »
+1

Inferno
Action/Duration - $4
Now, at the start of your next turn, or both (you must decide now), trash 2 cards from your hand for +$1.
By "trash 2 cards from your hand for +$1", do you mean "+$1 and trash 2 cards from your hand"?

Really like the card btw :) (at least if I understood it correctly)
Logged

Joxeft

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
  • Respect: +89
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2022, 11:29:38 am »
+3

Inferno
Action/Duration - $4
Now, at the start of your next turn, or both (you must decide now), trash 2 cards from your hand for +$1.
By "trash 2 cards from your hand for +$1", do you mean "+$1 and trash 2 cards from your hand"?

Really like the card btw :) (at least if I understood it correctly)
Means the same thing as +$1 and trash 2 cards from your hand but only if you trash 2 cards.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 11:35:20 am by Joxeft »
Logged

infangthief

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 344
  • Shuffle iT Username: infangthief
  • Respect: +10000 (I wish)
  • Respect: +606
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2022, 02:50:16 pm »
+3

I think the history of this is that cards used to say things like "Trash 2 cards from your hand. If you did, +$1." But to the uninitiated "if you did" there looks weird, like, what, I thought I had to trash 2 cards, do you mean I had a choice or something? You have to realise that it's possible to play the card with only 1 card left, and then it makes sense.

So more recently DXV has favored the "for" wording instead of "if you did". Because it means the same, but looks less weird. And handy that it takes up less space too.

I think that's how it is, anyway.
Logged

Galaxi

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Shuffle iT Username: Galaxi
  • Respect: +29
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2022, 05:27:31 pm »
+2

I think the history of this is that cards used to say things like "Trash 2 cards from your hand. If you did, +$1." But to the uninitiated "if you did" there looks weird, like, what, I thought I had to trash 2 cards, do you mean I had a choice or something? You have to realise that it's possible to play the card with only 1 card left, and then it makes sense.

So more recently DXV has favored the "for" wording instead of "if you did". Because it means the same, but looks less weird. And handy that it takes up less space too.

I think that's how it is, anyway.

I see, I'm used to the "if you did" formulation, so I were unsure what "for" meant here. Thanks for the clarification   ;D
Logged

Holger

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 667
  • Respect: +373
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2022, 06:42:32 pm »
+2

Quote
Dock - Project - Cost: 7

At the start of you Buy phase choose one: +$1; or put a token here and at the start of your turn remove it and +$1.

Feedback is appreciated.

I don't think Dock should cost $7, considering that Canal costs the same.

Then what should it cost? In many games without +Buy this is (with a few exceptions) better than Canal. It guarantees a Key effect, and it can store it for a turn in advance, which is significant smoothing. True, it is less good in engines where you will gain several engine parts in one turn, but I believe that those only happen about half the time. Can it cost 6?

I think I'd try it at $6. I don't think it's stronger than Hireling. +1 Card at start of turn is usually better than +$1 or occasionally +$2 per turn (though Hireling costs an Action and takes a shuffle to get into play). OTOH, it's clearly better than Treasury at $5.

Canal is stronger not only in most games with reasonable +buy, but also with Workshop variants: Gaining a $5 instead of a $4 is big advantage...
Logged

Joxeft

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
  • Respect: +89
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2022, 06:46:41 pm »
0

That is not the current version. Also there is a reason why I said (with a few exceptions).

Quote
Dock - Project - Cost: 7

At the start of you Buy phase choose one: +$1; or put a token here and at the start of your turn remove it and +$1.

Feedback is appreciated.

I don't think Dock should cost $7, considering that Canal costs the same.

Then what should it cost? In many games without +Buy this is (with a few exceptions) better than Canal. It guarantees a Key effect, and it can store it for a turn in advance, which is significant smoothing. True, it is less good in engines where you will gain several engine parts in one turn, but I believe that those only happen about half the time. Can it cost 6?

I think I'd try it at $6. I don't think it's stronger than Hireling. +1 Card at start of turn is usually better than +$1 or occasionally +$2 per turn (though Hireling costs an Action and takes a shuffle to get into play). OTOH, it's clearly better than Treasury at $5.

Canal is stronger not only in most games with reasonable +buy, but also with Workshop variants: Gaining a $5 instead of a $4 is big advantage...
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 06:33:09 pm by Joxeft »
Logged

infangthief

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 344
  • Shuffle iT Username: infangthief
  • Respect: +10000 (I wish)
  • Respect: +606
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2022, 01:55:11 am »
+2

I think the history of this is that cards used to say things like "Trash 2 cards from your hand. If you did, +$1." But to the uninitiated "if you did" there looks weird, like, what, I thought I had to trash 2 cards, do you mean I had a choice or something? You have to realise that it's possible to play the card with only 1 card left, and then it makes sense.

So more recently DXV has favored the "for" wording instead of "if you did". Because it means the same, but looks less weird. And handy that it takes up less space too.

I think that's how it is, anyway.

I see, I'm used to the "if you did" formulation, so I were unsure what "for" meant here. Thanks for the clarification   ;D

Actually, I'm very unsure of my ground here.
Here is a relevant post from DXV:
In some cases, "you may" helps me get a more natural phrasing; I prefer not to tell you to do something and then check if you did it, because it looks weird to casual players.

Certainly it seems like DXV has a preference to use "for" or "to" instead of "if you did". But it seems like the stronger preference is to use "you may" as well; "you may <do something> for <something nice>" or "you may <do something> to <do something nice>".

The only example I can find of a non-optional thing using "for" or "to" is Embargo; it changed from "Trash this. Add an Embargo token" (2017) to "Trash this. If you did, add an Embargo token" (2019) and then to "Trash this to add an Embargo token" (2020).

Whereas there are several instances of "if you did", where it could have been "to" or "for": eg Trading Post (2016), Madman (2017), Pillage (2020), Desperation (2020). (The years refer to the latest versions of these cards on http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com)

So, er, maybe some of these will be changed to "to" or "for" in the future. But it seems just as likely they would also get a "you may".
Logged

scolapasta

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 557
  • Respect: +711
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2022, 02:38:24 pm »
+1

I think the history of this is that cards used to say things like "Trash 2 cards from your hand. If you did, +$1." But to the uninitiated "if you did" there looks weird, like, what, I thought I had to trash 2 cards, do you mean I had a choice or something? You have to realise that it's possible to play the card with only 1 card left, and then it makes sense.

So more recently DXV has favored the "for" wording instead of "if you did". Because it means the same, but looks less weird. And handy that it takes up less space too.

I think that's how it is, anyway.

I see, I'm used to the "if you did" formulation, so I were unsure what "for" meant here. Thanks for the clarification   ;D

Actually, I'm very unsure of my ground here.
Here is a relevant post from DXV:
In some cases, "you may" helps me get a more natural phrasing; I prefer not to tell you to do something and then check if you did it, because it looks weird to casual players.

Certainly it seems like DXV has a preference to use "for" or "to" instead of "if you did". But it seems like the stronger preference is to use "you may" as well; "you may <do something> for <something nice>" or "you may <do something> to <do something nice>".

The only example I can find of a non-optional thing using "for" or "to" is Embargo; it changed from "Trash this. Add an Embargo token" (2017) to "Trash this. If you did, add an Embargo token" (2019) and then to "Trash this to add an Embargo token" (2020).

Whereas there are several instances of "if you did", where it could have been "to" or "for": eg Trading Post (2016), Madman (2017), Pillage (2020), Desperation (2020). (The years refer to the latest versions of these cards on http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com)

So, er, maybe some of these will be changed to "to" or "for" in the future. But it seems just as likely they would also get a "you may".

I'd say the issue is that something like "Trash a card from your hand for $1" could be read with an implied "you may". Yes, those of us on the forums know it doesn't, but a casual player might wonder, "well l I if I don't want $1, do I have to trash?"
Logged
Feel free to join us at scolapasta's cards for discussion on any of my custom cards.

MochaMoko

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
  • Shuffle iT Username: MochaMoko
  • Respect: +106
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2022, 05:41:19 pm »
0

Churn
Action/Duration - $3
Now, at the start of your next turn, or both (you must decide now), discard 2 cards for +$3

Edit: Changed the card from trashing to discarding

To avoid the mess of having to ask about how the "for" thing works, I'd just say "+③ and discard 2 cards," similar to how Galaxi interpreted it before. Just have both things happen no matter what. Yes, then you'd be able to get +③ even if you discard 1 or 0 cards, but I don't think that's much of a problem.
Logged

Xen3k

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 315
  • Respect: +405
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2022, 08:46:06 pm »
+5



Quote
Way of the Cicada
Way
Now and at the start of you next turn, Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +$1.

A simple way that acts like a duration. Not sure if someone already made something like this. Feedback is appreciated.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
  • Respect: +1706
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2022, 02:19:05 am »
+2



Quote
Way of the Cicada
Way
Now and at the start of you next turn, Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +$1.

A simple way that acts like a duration. Not sure if someone already made something like this. Feedback is appreciated.

It may not qualify for the competition, but "Now and at end of this turn: +1 Card" causes a lot fewer headaches with rules.

What you have there is probably a good $2 card.
Logged

infangthief

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 344
  • Shuffle iT Username: infangthief
  • Respect: +10000 (I wish)
  • Respect: +606
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2022, 03:54:51 am »
+1

Quote
Tall Ship
$4 Action - Duration - Liaison

Now and at the start of your next turn:
+2 Cards and each other player gets +1 Favor.

A tall ship requires a significant amount of cooperation, so yeh, give out Favors. This is similar to my entry in WDC 148, but I think it's ok to reuse?

Considered various "until your next turn, when another player does <X> they get +1 Favor", but straightforward giving them Favors is simplest (and is the best match for this contest criteria!). Also it prevents you short-circuiting the benefit by taking 2 turns in a row, which seems important with so many ways to do that now, not least Island Folk.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3165
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +4624
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2022, 04:24:38 am »
+9



Quote
Pirate Cove - $3
Action/Duration

+1 Card
+3 Actions

Either now or at the start of your next turn:
You may discard an Estate from your hand; if you didn't, trash this.

Alternate title "Village of Barons".

Clarification: You may choose to trash it on the turn you played it.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 522
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +603
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2022, 12:51:23 pm »
+2



A picky exiler that may force you to exile good stuff, but no worries, if you exile good stuff that costs less that 4 you can get it right back by gaining.

Might compare too favorably to Cobbler and Falconer? Both gain $4s to your hand, but one is non terminal and one can be played on someone else's turn. Niether of them are total powerhouses though so IDK.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 03:41:30 pm by Chappy7 »
Logged

infangthief

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 344
  • Shuffle iT Username: infangthief
  • Respect: +10000 (I wish)
  • Respect: +606
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2022, 01:06:36 pm »
0

Where do you exile the card from?
From your comments it looks like you mean from your hand, but I think that needs specifying on the card - the exile mechanism has no default location to exile things from.
Logged

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 522
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +603
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2022, 02:03:09 pm »
0

Where do you exile the card from?
From your comments it looks like you mean from your hand, but I think that needs specifying on the card - the exile mechanism has no default location to exile things from.

Yes it's from your hand.  My bad

« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 02:06:20 pm by Chappy7 »
Logged

emtzalex

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 566
  • Respect: +957
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2022, 02:48:09 pm »
0



This should probably have some accountability language in case a player has no cards in hand that are not already in Exile. Also, "Exile" should be capitalized every time (see Bounty Hunter, Sanctuary):

Quote
Exile a card from your hand that you don't have a copy of in Exile (or reveal you can't).

I presume it's you intend that the player still gains the card, even if they were unable to Exile anything.
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 522
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +603
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2022, 03:38:45 pm »
0



This should probably have some accountability language in case a player has no cards in hand that are not already in Exile. Also, "Exile" should be capitalized every time (see Bounty Hunter, Sanctuary):

Quote
Exile a card from your hand that you don't have a copy of in Exile (or reveal you can't).

I presume it's you intend that the player still gains the card, even if they were unable to Exile anything.

Ah frick you're right.

Yes, it was split into two sentences so the gaining happens regardless of the exiling.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 03:40:47 pm by Chappy7 »
Logged

spineflu

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1342
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1283
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2022, 06:22:08 pm »
+1

24 hour warning

spineflu

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1342
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1283
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2022, 12:19:04 am »
+2

whoops forgot to close it. contest closed. i'll get judgment out soon.

spineflu

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1342
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1283
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2022, 10:42:40 pm »
+4

Judgment
Lots of solid entries this week. Yall took my "keep it simple" recommendation to heart - lots of these are really tight and concise, and as a result, I didn't have much feedback - they're probably good to go as-is. Take a bow, all of you, you did good work here.

Now for some bad work, by which I mean my judgment of your cards. I'm writing this on way too little sleep after an exhausting weekend; as such, I'm sure there are typos galore. Please bear with me.

Quote
Lunar Witch Action - Attack - Duration $6
Each other player gains a curse.
Now and at the start of your next turn: +2 Cards

Does Witch need a buff? Like I'm sure this is fine, but it being the amalgam of witch and wharf does not enthuse me to play with it - those are both power $5s.

Quote
Galleon Action - Duration $5
You may set aside an Action or Treasure card from your hand. Either now or at the start of your next turn, play that card twice

Hey, an inverse galley. This is good. It might compare a little favorably to Crown, but that's probably ok since this can't play in the Buy Phase, right? Finalist.

Quote
Transporter Action - Duration $3
Choose one: Draw until you have 6 cards in your hand, or at the start of your next turn, +2 Cards.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may spend $1 to Exile it or put it onto your deck.

I like the while this is in play effect. I think this is probably underpriced if you always just pick the "next turn" option - compare/contrast with Expedition, Den of Sin.

Quote
Dock Project $7
At the start of your Buy phase choose one: +$1; or put a token here and at the start of your turn remove it then +$1 and +1 Buy.
I did not expect to be judging any projects for this. I think this would be done better as like... a sinister plot type deal, rather than tacking new functionality/modality on. I also think this is overpriced for what it gives you - I'd price it closer to $5.

Quote
Expeditionist Action - Duration $5
+2 Cards
Discard any number of cards.  Either now or at the start of your next turn: +1 Card per card you discarded.
I like this. A fun riff on Dungeon. Might have issues tracking number of cards discarded across turns, but maybe that's fine.

Quote
Postal Cart Treasure - Duration $5
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy and +$1 per Postal Cart any player has in play.
This is a really fun inter-player interaction. There may be a political/kingmaking aspect in who buys these and when you play them in 3+player, but that is for someone who is more of a stickler for that aspect of dominion to kvetch about, i think that stuff is fun. Finalist.

Quote
Traveling Inventor Action - Duration $5
Either now or at the start of your next turn, gain a card to your hand costing up to $4.
Frankly I'm shocked this isn't a real card. Seems like it'd fit in no problem.

Quote
Recast Action - Duration $4
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Trash a card from your hand and gain a card to your hand costing exactly $1 more than it.
Is splitting a remodel over two turns enough of a nerf to justify the gaining to hand while keeping the price the same? I'm not convinced. This is probably too good. I like the art you hunted down for it though.

Quote
Errand Boy Action - Duration $2
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Action and +1 Buy
Like Traveling Inventor, this also should probably exist as a real card; really love the simplicity of it. Also, welcome to the forum.

Quote
Wayfinder Action - Duration $4
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them and put the rest back in any order.
I think this can get away with costing $3 honestly. It just does the setup, there's no attached payout. I wouldn't be surprised if something like this that is also an on-play silver shows up as a costing-$5 navigator replacement in seaside v2 (although maybe those replacement cards have been announced and I just didn't see them).

Quote
Desperado Action - Duration $3
Either now or at the start of your next turn:
+4 Cards
Reveal your hand. Discard 1 card per Treasure card revealed
I'm not sure this would play the way you describe - it might be advantageous to do an early greening mostly treasure deck with this. +4 cards is a lot, and if you've got the chaff to toss, it's no penalty.

Quote
Buttinski Action - Duration - Attack $4
Now and at the start of next turn: +$1 and you may trash a card from your hand.
Until the start of your next turn, when any player trashes a card, they gain a Silver.
I'd rephrase the card with the "until the start of your next turn" part first to reinforce the "you'll gain a silver from the trashing" part. I would hate to see this in a game with four players and feodum, as it stacks between players - if everyone has one out, trash a feodum for .... seven? silvers. I think sevens right. It's a ridiculous number, in any event.
It's an interesting effect, and you should workshop it some more. I'm not sure silverflooding is an attack, per se, but it probably is something an opponent would want the opportunity to opt out of, so calling it an attack fits.

Quote
Lamb Action - Duration - Reaction $5
Now, or at the start of your next turn, +2 Cards and +1 Buy.
-
When you gain a card, you may play this from your hand.
This is interesting but I feel like it's too good to always go for the duration draw played off buying+gaining a card. Like it's Den of Sin but swapping the on-buy for plus-buy.

Quote
Churn Action - Duration $3
Now, at the start of your next turn, or both (decide now): +2 Actions, +$2, discard 2 cards.
This is a really cool idea. Finalist.

Quote
Way of the Cicada Way
Now and at the start of your next turn, Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +$1
I really didn't expect to be judging any ways. I think this would be better if it just gave +1 card, like NoMoreFun said - it's less flexible and fun, but that's probably fine. I also think it'd be tough to track.

Quote
Tall Ship Action - Duration - Liaison $4
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+2 Cards and each other player gets +1 Favor.
Another in the list of cards that feel like they should exist. Lots of them this contest. I like the giving favors as a penalty but given the variability in Allies, it might be sort of a freebie, yknow?

Quote
Pirate Cove Action - Duration $3
+1 Card
+3 Actions
Either now or at the start of your next turn:
You may discard an Estate from your hand; if you didn't, trash this.
I think the baron hubris thing is super cool, actually, but it probably shouldn't be on a village. Way too easy for someone to collect too many terminals and then break their own deck on shuffle luck putting all the estates at the bottom, yeah? Put that on draw or payload and it'll be much better.

Quote
Royal Decorator Action - Duration $5
Now and at the start of your next turn: Exile a card from your hand that you don't have a copy of in Exile (or reveal you can't). Gain a card into your hand costing up to $4
An interesting take on Bounty Hunter. You might want to tweak the wording on the 'gain a card to your hand...' part to connect it to the exile sentence, so that both are implied as the now-and-later part.

Winner: Postal Cart by emtzalex
Runners Up: Churn by NoMoreFun; Galleon by Gubump

Congrats, emtzalex!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 08:03:22 am by spineflu »
Logged

emtzalex

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 566
  • Respect: +957
    • View Profile
Re: WDC 151: Now or Later
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2022, 11:16:48 am »
+1

Wow, thanks.

I'll try to have the next contest up later today.
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.
Pages: 1 [2]  All
 

Page created in 0.094 seconds with 21 queries.