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Author Topic: Prosperity 2E  (Read 7649 times)

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Sparafucile

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2022, 09:26:39 am »
0

The play effect of Mint is situational but not weak. You often need payload after getting rid of those Coppers and besides Kiln and Treasurer, Mint is the only non-Remodel Platinum gainer in the game.
*cough* Tragic Hero *cough*

Also Specialist

And Hero, Haggler, horn of plenty, Camel, ( Mine, taxman as specialized treasure upgraders), forge.   (And not counting all the remodel/upgrade/displace variants)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 09:40:40 am by Sparafucile »
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Imrahil3

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2022, 11:14:01 am »
0

The play effect of Mint is situational but not weak. You often need payload after getting rid of those Coppers and besides Kiln and Treasurer, Mint is the only non-Remodel Platinum gainer in the game.
*cough* Tragic Hero *cough*

Also Specialist

And Hero, Haggler, horn of plenty, Camel, ( Mine, taxman as specialized treasure upgraders), forge.   (And not counting all the remodel/upgrade/displace variants)
All technically correct, but most of those are a lot more work than buying Mint and hitting $9 once.
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Gherald

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2022, 11:37:04 am »
0

Technically Camel doesn't gain anything ;D

Haggler is probably the best Platinum gainer in general (Hoard-like), since Specialist will usually get used for something else
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GendoIkari

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2022, 01:14:58 pm »
0

The play effect of Mint is situational but not weak. You often need payload after getting rid of those Coppers and besides Kiln and Treasurer, Mint is the only non-Remodel Platinum gainer in the game.
*cough* Tragic Hero *cough*

Also Specialist

And Hero, Haggler, horn of plenty, Camel, ( Mine, taxman as specialized treasure upgraders), forge.   (And not counting all the remodel/upgrade/displace variants)

Pretty sure that by "non-Remodel" they meant the entire family of remodel cards, not just Remodel. So that would cover Mine. How does Camel get you a Platinum?
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vidicate

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2022, 01:56:07 pm »
0

The play effect of Mint is situational but not weak. You often need payload after getting rid of those Coppers and besides Kiln and Treasurer, Mint is the only non-Remodel Platinum gainer in the game.
*cough* Tragic Hero *cough*

Also Specialist

And Hero, Haggler, horn of plenty, Camel, ( Mine, taxman as specialized treasure upgraders), forge.   (And not counting all the remodel/upgrade/displace variants)
But that was the point- gainers (that gain a Platinum) that aren’t Remodelers. Everything you said after Camel Train wouldn’t count. (PPEdit: ninja’d by Gendo)

Technically Camel doesn't gain anything ;D

Haggler is probably the best Platinum gainer in general (Hoard-like), since Specialist will usually get used for something else
Well Camel Train is kind of a reverse Mint/Specialist in this regard. One needs you to have a Platinum in hand in the first place, the other just needs you to actually gain one later to enjoy the Exiled one.

All technically correct, but most of those are a lot more work than buying Mint and hitting $9 once.
Of the “Platinum gainers” listed so far I would rate their ease of gaining/acquiring the Plat in this order:
Hero, Tragic Hero, Haggler, Horn of Plenty, Camel Train, Specialist, Mint, Kiln, Treasurer.
Of course, that’s not factoring in the difference in gaining the particular card in the first place; cost, Traveler, etc.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2022, 02:06:37 pm »
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Of the “Platinum gainers” listed so far I would rate their ease of gaining/acquiring the Plat in this order:
Hero, Tragic Hero, Haggler, Horn of Plenty, Camel Train, Specialist, Mint, Kiln, Treasurer.
Of course, that’s not factoring in the difference in gaining the particular card in the first place; cost, Traveler, etc.
Right… so in practice Mint is one of the best.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2022, 02:36:03 pm »
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The play effect of Mint is situational but not weak. You often need payload after getting rid of those Coppers and besides Kiln and Treasurer, Mint is the only non-Remodel Platinum gainer in the game.
*cough* Tragic Hero *cough*

Also Specialist

And Hero, Haggler, horn of plenty, Camel, ( Mine, taxman as specialized treasure upgraders), forge.   (And not counting all the remodel/upgrade/displace variants)

Pretty sure that by "non-Remodel" they meant the entire family of remodel cards, not just Remodel. So that would cover Mine. How does Camel get you a Platinum?

Oh you guys mean Camel Train, not Way of the Camel. Autolink shows the Way for all the animal names (except Monkey now), so I thought you meant that at first.
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Gherald

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2022, 03:11:03 pm »
+1

Guys, Tragic Hero is a Remodel variant  ;)
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Awaclus

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2022, 04:14:45 pm »
+2

Guys, Tragic Hero is a Remodel variant  ;)

More like a Swindler variant, it just attacks you instead of the opponent.
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vidicate

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2022, 04:40:04 pm »
0

Of the “Platinum gainers” listed so far I would rate their ease of gaining/acquiring the Plat in this order:
Hero, Tragic Hero, Haggler, Horn of Plenty, Camel Train, Specialist, Mint, Kiln, Treasurer.
Of course, that’s not factoring in the difference in gaining the particular card in the first place; cost, Traveler, etc.
Right… so in practice Mint is one of the best.
Tragic Hero: buy it - increase your handsize a little on the turn you play it - Bam! Platinum
Haggler: buy it - play it on the same turn you hit enough $ to buy a Colony (no specific other card required to have nor line up with Haggler) - buy a Colony - Bam! Platinum (and Colony in the same buy, woot)
Mint/Kiln - buy it - hit enough to buy a Platinum - play the Mint/Kiln on the turn you’ve finally lined it up with the Platinum - Bam! Platinum (but wait, I already had one, and I had to get it the hard way…)

In execution, Mint is very straightforward though—almost as simple as Hero.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2022, 04:04:05 pm »
0

So I am a copper strategist, yes I know that’s not really a real strategy. So yes I hate mint because I would rather keep my coppers which is why I like the dark ages expansion so much. And yes I’m not really into big money strategies. For me it gets less strategic in big money strategies while the dark ages work your way up offers lots of synergy, and I just would rather trash my coppers with rats. I absolutely love rats! But I find it boring to trash my coppers with mint, however it’s not quite as boring to trash my coppers when I can pull off counting house and forge combo. Cards like mint and chapel get rid of your coppers fast. Which I find boring. But cards that trash coppers slowly or require a combo of cards to pull off is much more fun. Im not saying mint is weak, I’m saying it bores me to death. And as for chapel at least I get to choose what I trash, so yes I like chapel. If the trashing of treasures with mint was an option instead of force I would like it, but then it would be an overpowered card.
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silverspawn

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2022, 04:07:26 pm »
+4

The powerlevel of Mint wouldn't change much if it was optional
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Awaclus

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2022, 06:25:23 pm »
+1

So I am a copper strategist, yes I know that’s not really a real strategy. So yes I hate mint because I would rather keep my coppers which is why I like the dark ages expansion so much. And yes I’m not really into big money strategies.

You're into small money strategies?
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pate

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2022, 09:59:48 pm »
+5

I’m not sure if I’m on to anything here but allies rulebook was likely  made when prosperity2e was already planned.  That said the suggested prosperity games included expand, kc, quarry, rabble, talisman, bank, city, mint, trade route, vault.  I would find it strange that they would make suggested sets include cards they knew they were going to axe from the game within the year.
The seaside 2nd edition suggested sets didn’t include any of the axed cards. 
That said I would be surprised if trade route or mint made the cut.
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CaptainTheo

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2022, 05:45:19 pm »
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Unlike Seaside I'm struggling to think of how 8 cards can be axed as while a few cards are weak, most of them still feel quite fun. The only ones that I can think of to be obvious axes are:
  • Contraband - being unable to buy a card is a significant pain
  • Royal Seal - I like the concept but there are plenty of other ways to gain cards on your deck now and it seems overpriced
  • Trade Route - Extremely weak compared to Forager. Even if it gave you +1 action like Forager does, it would generally still be worse than that card other than kingdoms that include decent Action-Victory or Treasure-Victory cards.

Perhaps Counting House too, which is admittedly weak but has a cool effect. Also possibly Mountebank as it's just not fun to pick up that much junk, and Seaside axed similarly vicious attacks like Ambassador, Sea Hag and Ghost Ship.

As to other candidates for axing:
  • Loan - not a great card but it has an original concept and there's not a lot wrong with it. Occasionally it can even be useful for deck cycling.
  • Talisman - not my favourite card but there aren't many cards that get you duplicates and gets a lot stronger if there is a cost-reducer in the kingdom - and these seem to be becoming more common.
  • Venture - similar to Loan in some ways and again I wouldn't like it to go as it is fairly original and can be quite good if you can get rid of Copper.
  • Hoard - again, this feels too original to get rid of and a neat way of gaining lots of Gold.
  • Goons - arguably overpowered and the attack is annoying, but quite a popular card and a cool concept of gaining Victory cards. Granted, it could be modified.

Surely not King's Court, which is overly-powerful but fun, or Forge, which is one of the few ways to trash one's entire hand. Or Mint, which can be a nice way of getting rid of lots of Coppers early.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2022, 06:41:28 pm »
+3

The preponderance of Treasures on everyone’s list suggests to me that the game has shifted toward engines quite a bit since Prosperity. I feel like most of the treasures in Prosperity just need a $1 discount to be viable again.
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4est

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2022, 07:52:32 pm »
+1

Interesting find on the recommended sets. If it's accurate, I could see Trade Route staying but perhaps with errata to eliminate tokens and mat, using language like “+$1 per Victory supply pile that isn't full.“ Still weak, but eh, trashing is trashing. I could definitely see Mint and Talisman staying too, both of those cards are fine.

My Prosperity 2E predictions:
  • Mountebank, Goons, Royal Seal, and Venture are all out.
  • Counting House gets replaced with something with something else that cares about Coppers.
  • We get three new VP token cards, including a Treasure.
  • We get a card that lets you play Treasures in your Action phase.

*Edit: forgot how the update packs work, most likely 100 cards, which means 9 new cards and probably 9 removals.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 08:34:51 pm by 4est »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Prosperity 2E
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2022, 09:22:27 pm »
+2

The preponderance of Treasures on everyone’s list suggests to me that the game has shifted toward engines quite a bit since Prosperity. I feel like most of the treasures in Prosperity just need a $1 discount to be viable again.

I think this has more to do with the fact that a lot of the Prosperity Treasures were weak to begin with - it's been my biggest beef with the set for a long time now. Some Treasures, like Fortune and the new Sunken Treasure, are good engine supplements. Hopefully we'll get some more of those when the second edition comes out.

The two cards I think have definitely gotten worse since they first came out are Hoard and Mint, both because the value of Gold has declined so dramatically.
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