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Author Topic: Inn and Gatekeeper  (Read 587 times)

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majiponi

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Inn and Gatekeeper
« on: May 03, 2022, 07:05:21 pm »
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(1) My opponent has played Gatekeeper.
I have an Inn in discard. I gain another.

(a)  I reveal it and shuffle my deck. Nothing will happen.
(b)  I reveal that Inn, shuffle my deck, and Exile what I've gained.

Are both correct?


(c)  I play a Sheepdog as Vassal (using Way), play a discarded Scavenger, and topdeck a Copper. (He doesn't know.) Can I deny Exiling? (Has he lost track?)
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dz

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Re: Inn and Gatekeeper
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2022, 09:05:37 pm »
+1

(1) My opponent has played Gatekeeper.
I have an Inn in discard. I gain another.

(a)  I reveal it and shuffle my deck. Nothing will happen.
(b)  I reveal that Inn, shuffle my deck, and Exile what I've gained.

Are both correct?

I assume A is referring to the Inn you gained, and B is referring to the Inn that was originally in your discard pile. If so, then they're both correct.

(c)  I play a Sheepdog as Vassal (using Way), play a discarded Scavenger, and topdeck a Copper. (He doesn't know.) Can I deny Exiling? (Has he lost track?)

Ugh, Way of the Mouse is so annoying to think about.

I think the ruling would be that Gatekeeper (somehow) knows that the Inn you gained didn't get moved by Scavenger, so it can exile it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Inn and Gatekeeper
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2022, 11:12:26 pm »
+1

It used to be that a card that has been covered up cannot be moved by an effect such as Gatekeeper. But this actually changed with the 2019 errata, so now cards in the discard can be moved even if covered up. So “stop moving” rule doesn’t apply and the gained Inn will be exiled unless you shuffled it into your deck. Having another Inn in your discard doesn’t change anything; and when revealing an Inn to shuffle it into your deck you have to specify if you are revealing the new one or the old one.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 11:18:44 pm by GendoIkari »
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majiponi

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Re: Inn and Gatekeeper
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2022, 12:27:59 am »
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It used to be that a card that has been covered up cannot be moved by an effect such as Gatekeeper. But this actually changed with the 2019 errata, so now cards in the discard can be moved even if covered up. So “stop moving” rule doesn’t apply and the gained Inn will be exiled unless you shuffled it into your deck. Having another Inn in your discard doesn’t change anything; and when revealing an Inn to shuffle it into your deck you have to specify if you are revealing the new one or the old one.

I mean, I can topdeck Inn with Scavenger without revealing, so he doesn't know whether the Inn in my discard is what I've gained or not, unless I gained it from Black Market.
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Jeebus

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Re: Inn and Gatekeeper
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2022, 07:36:21 am »
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So, is this the scenario?

Opponent has played Gatekeeper.
I have an Inn (A) in discard. I gain an Inn (B).
I react with a Sheepdog, and play Scavanger (via Mouse), and topdeck a Copper.
Does Gatekeeper exile Inn B?

I think the answer has to be yes. You're theorizing that as far as Gatekeeper knows, the topdecked card could be Inn B, and the Inn on top of your discard could be Inn A? Cards "knowing" things isn't really part of the rules. You know which card you moved. You know that Inn B hasn't moved. The only thing that matters for Gatekeeper is whether another ability has moved Inn B. It's never a question of what Gatekeeper "knows". You know that it hasn't moved.

Donald X.

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Re: Inn and Gatekeeper
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2022, 02:01:31 pm »
+3

Gatekeeper can find a card in your discard pile even if you've messed with your discard pile. If you shuffle an Inn in, you have to indicate whether or not it's the one Gatekeeper cares about.

In situations where you actually can't tell if a card is "the card" something refers to, the answer is that it isn't. So if you gain an Inn with another in your discard pile, shuffle them both into your deck, and before resolving Gatekeeper manage to Chancellor so they're back in the discard pile, Gatekeeper can't find the Inn, even though it must be one of them.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Inn and Gatekeeper
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2022, 02:48:14 pm »
+2

It used to be that a card that has been covered up cannot be moved by an effect such as Gatekeeper. But this actually changed with the 2019 errata, so now cards in the discard can be moved even if covered up. So “stop moving” rule doesn’t apply and the gained Inn will be exiled unless you shuffled it into your deck. Having another Inn in your discard doesn’t change anything; and when revealing an Inn to shuffle it into your deck you have to specify if you are revealing the new one or the old one.

I mean, I can topdeck Inn with Scavenger without revealing, so he doesn't know whether the Inn in my discard is what I've gained or not, unless I gained it from Black Market.

There's no accountability, true. But that doesn't matter, if you didn't topdeck your gained in then you have to exile it. If you did, then you don't. It's up to you to be honest about whether or not the Inn is still in your discard pile after you play Scavenger.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Inn and Gatekeeper
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2022, 02:50:26 pm »
+3

In situations where you actually can't tell if a card is "the card" something refers to, the answer is that it isn't. So if you gain an Inn with another in your discard pile, shuffle them both into your deck, and before resolving Gatekeeper manage to Chancellor so they're back in the discard pile, Gatekeeper can't find the Inn, even though it must be one of them.

This is already covered by the rule saying that a card moving and then moving back is no longer moveable, right? Wouldn't it be the same outcome even if you only have a single Inn to start with?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 10:38:16 am by GendoIkari »
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Donald X.

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Re: Inn and Gatekeeper
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2022, 01:11:45 pm »
+1

In situations where you actually can't tell if a card is "the card" something refers to, the answer is that it isn't. So if you gain an Inn with another in your discard pile, shuffle them both into your deck, and before resolving Gatekeeper manage to Chancellor so they're back in the discard pile, Gatekeeper can't find the Inn, even though it must be one of them.

This is already covered by the rule saying that a card moving and then moving back is no longer moveable, right? Wouldn't it be the same outcome even if you only have a single Inn to start with?
Yes.
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