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Author Topic: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky  (Read 4007 times)

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Commodore Chuckles

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Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« on: April 20, 2022, 10:36:22 pm »
+6

This contest involves a mechanic I am developing called Sneak. This is the same as the Jackpot ability I wrote about a while ago, but I'm changing its name in order to better fit with a new theme for a new set I want to make.

Sneak is an ability that you can use any time on your turn other than clean-up, but only once per turn. It can be used before resolving beginning-of-turn effects, in the Night phase, or any time in between. When a card has the Sneak type, it means you can play it using its Sneak ability, indicated by the text "Sneak:", instead of its regular ability. So, if a card has both the Sneak and Action types, it means that once per turn, you're allowed to play the card at any time using its Sneak ability, but then any other plays of the card (or copies of it) have to be in the Action phase, using its Action ability. The Sneak type is indicated by a dark blue color, and Sneak - Action cards should have both colors.

Some examples (I'll make pictures later):

-------------------------

Swordsmith
Action - Sneak - $5
+3 Cards
Sneak: +3 Cards, then put 3 cards from your hand onto your deck in any order.

It's just a plain draw card when you use the action ability, but the Sneak has lots of uses, depending on when you use it.
Action phase: It can possibly save you from a dud turn.
Buy phase: You can draw Treasures and then also top deck dead Action cards.
Night phase: You can draw and top deck cards you just bought.

---------------------------

Scheming Court
Action - Sneak - $5
You may play an Action card from your hand twice.
Sneak: Replay a card you have in play twice.

Again, a card where the Action part is already an official card (Throne Room), but the Sneak is a bonus. It's basically a once per turn King's Court, but it can also work on Treasure and Night cards.

-------------------------

Machine Shop
Action - Sneak - $4
+$1
Cards cost $1 less this turn.
Sneak: +2 Buys. Gain a card to your hand costing up to $3.

The Sneak is less useful here when used in the Buy or Night phases, but the gained card can be better if you've already played one or more Machine Shops. Also note that the buying power is overall more limited compared with Bridge because only the Sneak gives you +Buys.

-----------------------------

Hidden Village
Action - Sneak - $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Sneak: +1 Card. Put a card you have in play on your deck.

Lets you replay a card if you have the Actions left over for it, or Scheme a card in the Buy or Night phases. The fact that it's a Sneak ability helps to avoid infinite loops.

--------------------------------

This is an example of a pure Sneak type (or close to pure, at least):

Secret Mission
Sneak - Duration - $5
Sneak: Take another turn after this one where you can only play Action cards.

This is a redo of the Voyage card I made. Originally, it was a Night card that forced you to end your Night phase so you couldn't play another one. I realized that with the Sneak mechanic I could drop that part. Also, instead of an explicit Action-only restriction it had you discard your hand at the end of your Action phase, but it was pointed out that Village Green could still give you infinite turns. Making Action-only explicit is simpler anyway. I also had to choose a different name obviously!

------------------------------

Lastly, here's a card that uses the Sneak ability without actually having the Sneak type:

Jeweller
Action - Treasure - $5
If this is your Action phase, +2 Cards. Otherwise, +$1 and +1 Buy. Either way, you may use your Sneak to return this to your hand.

It's not a Sneak type, so it can only ever be played in the Action or Buy phases. But, once per turn, you can return it to your hand after playing it. I made it an Action - Treasure so that returning it to your hand is still useful even if there are no Villages on the board.

----------------------

Things to keep in mind overall are all the different phases that the Sneak can be used in, as well as the fact that it allows things that would break the game if they could be used more than once per turn.

Also, I'd like some feedback on how well you think this mechanic works overall. My main concern is boards with more than one Sneak card on them. It seems possible that, because of the once per turn restriction, one of the Sneak cards would end up with only its plain ability being used. I thought about making the restriction instead "once per turn per pile", but that seems too complicated. Does anyone have any other ideas?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2022, 10:59:03 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2022, 12:36:15 am »
+1

Sneak is an ability that you can use any time on your turn other than clean-up, but only once per turn. It can be used before resolving beginning-of-turn effects, in the Night phase, or any time in between.
The rules of Nocturn say "In games using Night cards, the Night phase happens after the Buy phase - it goes, Action, Buy, Night, Clean-up." If there's a Sneak card, but no Night cards, is there still a Night phase? In other words, can you trigger things that happen at the end of your buy phase and then play a Sneak?


When a card has the Sneak type, it means you can play it using its Sneak ability, indicated by the text "Sneak:", instead of its regular ability. So, if a card has both the Sneak and Action types, it means that once per turn, you're allowed to play the card at any time using its Sneak ability, but then any other plays of the card (or copies of it) have to be in the Action phase, using its Action ability.
If you play an Action - Sneak card during your Action phase using the Sneak ability, does it cost you an Action?


The Sneak type is indicated by a dark blue color, and Sneak - Action cards should have both colors.
Do you have a custom color code for the card image generator?


Also, I'd like some feedback on how well you think this mechanic works overall. My main concern is boards with more than one Sneak card on them. It seems possible that, because of the once per turn restriction, one of the Sneak cards would end up with only its plain ability being used. I thought about making the restriction instead "once per turn per pile", but that seems too complicated. Does anyone have any other ideas?
I don't know that this is such a big concern. In Kingdoms without a village you are often forced to pick between different terminal cards. If both Sneak cards aren't viable, a player will have to choose which one will work better for her strategy.
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lompeluiten

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2022, 05:27:22 am »
0

is it me, or is Sneak unnecessary complex. In most cases it just reads:
You can play it, without costing an action for other effect.
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infangthief

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2022, 06:06:52 am »
+1

Quote
Replica
$6 Treasure - Sneak

$4
+1 Buy. Gain 2 Coppers.

Sneak: Gain a copy of each non-Victory card you have gained this turn.

Anti-synergises with itself. Or if you've gained cards in your Action phase it might be worth Sneaking a copy of them before playing a regular Replica in your Buy phase.

Withdrawing this entry, see instead Investment in #27.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 06:41:29 am by infangthief »
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2022, 06:10:47 am »
+3

is it me, or is Sneak unnecessary complex. In most cases it just reads:
You can play it, without costing an action for other effect.

As I understand it, you just get one total Sneak play per turn. So if you have multiple cards with Sneak (whether they're the same or different), you can use one of them for their Sneak ability, and the others you can only play for their regular ability.

It functions a bit like a bonus action in D&D (am I remembering that right?)
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Timinou

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2022, 12:31:01 pm »
+2

Minor point, but I think there should be a dividing line between the card's normal ability and the Sneak ability, just to remind players that they can only do one and not both.
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Joxeft

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2022, 06:41:44 pm »
0

Trapper
Action - Sneak - $4

Choose one: +2 Actions and +1 Card; or gain a card costing up to $4; or trash a card from your hand.
-
Sneak: Exile a trapper from the supply and +$1.


Feedback is appreciated.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 09:35:54 am by Joxeft »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2022, 07:01:26 pm »
+1

Sneak is an ability that you can use any time on your turn other than clean-up, but only once per turn. It can be used before resolving beginning-of-turn effects, in the Night phase, or any time in between.
The rules of Nocturn say "In games using Night cards, the Night phase happens after the Buy phase - it goes, Action, Buy, Night, Clean-up." If there's a Sneak card, but no Night cards, is there still a Night phase? In other words, can you trigger things that happen at the end of your buy phase and then play a Sneak?

Yes. The assumption is that the Night phase always existed, but you couldn't do anything in it until Nocturne.

When a card has the Sneak type, it means you can play it using its Sneak ability, indicated by the text "Sneak:", instead of its regular ability. So, if a card has both the Sneak and Action types, it means that once per turn, you're allowed to play the card at any time using its Sneak ability, but then any other plays of the card (or copies of it) have to be in the Action phase, using its Action ability.
If you play an Action - Sneak card during your Action phase using the Sneak ability, does it cost you an Action?

No.

is it me, or is Sneak unnecessary complex. In most cases it just reads:
You can play it, without costing an action for other effect.

As I understand it, you just get one total Sneak play per turn. So if you have multiple cards with Sneak (whether they're the same or different), you can use one of them for their Sneak ability, and the others you can only play for their regular ability.

Correct.

Secret Mission needs a „if the previous turn was not yours“ restriction.

Does it? You can't play Secret Mission on a Secret Mission turn, because it's not an Action card.

Minor point, but I think there should be a dividing line between the card's normal ability and the Sneak ability, just to remind players that they can only do one and not both.

Yes, this is a good idea.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 07:07:05 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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jakav

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2022, 07:21:17 pm »
+1

My submission this week is Maze:

Quote from: Maze
Maze • Action - Sneak • Cost: 4
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
                   
Sneak: +2%

Without the Sneak, Maze is simply a cantrip buy. With the Sneak ability it is also a source of VP. It has the Sneak ability so that it does not dominate games. It should be priced well, and you will rarely want more than 2 of them. I don't like how the colors turned out, but I don't know how to make it better.

Feedback is appreciated.
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jakav

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2022, 08:03:33 pm »
0

My submission this week is Maze:

Quote from: Maze
Maze • Action - Sneak • Cost: 4
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
                   
Sneak: +2%

Without the Sneak, Maze is simply a cantrip buy. With the Sneak ability it is also a source of VP. It has the Sneak ability so that it does not dominate games. It should be priced well, and you will rarely want more than 2 of them. I don't like how the colors turned out, but I don't know how to make it better.

Feedback is appreciated.
Broken. Sure, you can only use one as cantrip double VP gainer but that is nonetheless crazy.

I think you can't. By using the sneak ability you are foregoing the other abilities on the card. That would turn it into a Ruined Village with the VP. Quoting the OP:
"When a card has the Sneak type, it means you can play it using its Sneak ability, indicated by the text "Sneak:", instead of its regular ability."
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 08:05:15 pm by jakav »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2022, 04:00:47 am »
+6

*not relevant for weeks contest but wanted to share*

Im fine now! Medecine is working, life just sucked for a week. I have some interest in dominion still, but im not hyper fixated on it like last year when i discovered it, so ocassionally ill pop in here and submit ideas, but usually i just lurk here a bit.

For those curious, my medecine that i tried is Ritalin, 50MG, for ADHD. It helps energy and concentration, but i have tons of habits and systems i need to change. Medecine on its own is just a support wheel and not good to rely on.

Regardless: i like this forum a lot: keep grinding out card ideas and contests! you are all nice and understanding people here.
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UltimateGeek

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2022, 09:56:49 am »
0

Scheming Court
Action - Sneak - $5
You may play an Action card from your hand twice.
Sneak: Replay a card you have in play twice.

Again, a card where the Action part is already an official card (Throne Room), but the Sneak is a bonus. It's basically a once per turn King's Court, but it can also work on Treasure and Night cards.

If the intent of the sneak is to replay the card even if it leaves play by being set-aside, or getting trashed, then consider phrasing it:

You may play an Action card from your hand twice.
Sneak: Play a card you have in play. Play it again.

I think it's possible to interpret the current wording as meaning you can only play it a 2nd time if it's actually "a card you have in play".

But with segura's concern, perhaps it's better to restrict its main ability to also be only in-play cards:

Play an Action card from your hand. If it is still in play, play it again.
Sneak: Play a card you have in play. If it is still in play, play it again.

I think that better balances its power with the likes of $5 Crown: It can't Throne Room cards that leave play like Horse, but its sneak can, as you describe, "once-per-turn King's Court" any card.
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UltimateGeek

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2022, 02:53:37 pm »
+1



$5 Action - Attack - Sneak: Marcher Lord
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player draws a card.
-
Sneak: Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.

Rev history:
  • 1.0: Initial version
  • 1.1: Added blue color to half
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 08:09:24 pm by UltimateGeek »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2022, 07:05:53 pm »
+2



Quote
War Engineers - $4
Action - Sneak
+1 Buy
+$2
----
Sneak: If this is the first time you played a War Engineers this turn, +1 Villager. Otherwise, +3 cards.

 A Woodcutter variant. The sneak ability is variable and dependent on if you have already played a War Engineers that turn. The Villager gain is mainly to enable the draw 4 ability in the rare cases that you have no +actions. I justify the draw 4 as it can only ever be used once a turn and the rest of the card is not entirely the best out there. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Changed the color on it. Not sure I like it, but that is what I got.

Edit 2: Changed the draw from sneak to +3 Cards. Changed the card coloration again.

Edit 3: Added Sneak card type. Fixed text only version.

Old Version
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 08:17:59 pm by Xen3k »
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Joxeft

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2022, 09:36:55 am »
0

Trapper
Action - Sneak - $4

Choose one: +2 Actions and +1 Card; or gain a card costing up to $4; or trash a card from your hand.
-
Sneak: Exile a trapper from the supply and +$1.


Feedback is appreciated.
Any feedback.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2022, 01:10:55 pm »
+1

My Submission:


Quote
Secret Village • $3 • Action - Sneak
+2 Actions
+$1
You may rotate the Sneaks.


Sneak: +2 Cards
Quote
Secret Church • $4 • Action - Sneak
+1 Action
Trash up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 Buy per Treasure card trashed. +$1 per Action or Victory card trashed.


Sneak: +3 Cards
Discard a card.

Quote
Secret Storehouse • $5 • Action - Sneak
+1 Card
+1 Action
Do this twice: Discard any number of cards, then draw that many.


Sneak: +3 Cards
Quote
Secret Realm • $6 • Sneak - Victory
Sneak: +4 Cards
Discard a card.


Worth 1VP per 2 Sneak cards you have (round down).


My submission is a 4 card rotator pile of Secret place:  Secret Village, Secret Church, Secret Storehouse, and Secret Realm. I wanted to take advantage of the Sneak abilities once-per-turn limitation by making it a more difficult choice for the player. As they advance the pile and gain the better cards, they have to decide whether to use one of the earlier card's Sneak ability if it might cost them a much better use of an ability later in the turn.

As for the non-sneak abilities, I wanted things that went well with the ability to have a bigger hand. Disappearing money isn't a clear fit, but it does help to have more cards if one is going to disappear and not replace itself. Trashing and sifting are more obvious examples of cards that benefit from drawing, and a Victory card's dead-draw penalty (if you don't use SR's Sneak) is mitigated (in theory) by having more cards.

Originally, the pile's Sneak abilities went +2 Cards, +3 Cards, +4 Cards, +5 Cards, but a quadruple-Lab-Victory card at $6 (even one you could only use once a turn) seemed to busted, so I added the sifting as an intermediate step to slow the power build. Secret Realm also originally gave a flat +2VP, but I felt it was too easy for someone not playing the pile to just swoop in and grab one or two of them, getting an extremely strong card without having to grapple with the opportunity cost of not being able to use the earlier cards' Sneak abilities. The scaling only emphasizes the need to manage that opportunity cost, as the more Sneak cards you have, the more you will get beyond the first (i.e. whose Sneak ability you can't use).
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2022, 01:14:37 pm »
0

Also, am I the only one who's been singing this to myself while designing these cards?

Quote
Who's that dapper swindler out of Tammany Hall?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 06:16:31 pm by emtzalex »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2022, 04:35:41 pm »
+2


Quote
Retainer • $4 • Night - Sneak - Duration
Set a card you have in play aside. During clean up, after drawing your new hand, put that card on top of your deck, then discard this.
-
Sneak: Gain a card costing exactly $1 per differently named card you have in play.

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2022, 06:09:45 pm »
+2



Quote
War Engineers - $4
Action
+1 Buy
+$2
----
Sneak: If this is the first time you played a War Engineers this turn, +1 Villager. Otherwise, +4 cards.

 A Woodcutter variant. The sneak ability is variable and dependent on if you have already played a War Engineers that turn. The Villager gain is mainly to enable the draw 4 ability in the rare cases that you have no +actions. I justify the draw 4 as it can only ever be used once a turn and the rest of the card is not entirely the best out there. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Changed the color on it. Not sure I like it, but that is what I got.
I’d also test this with +3 Cards. Sure, the effect is not too easy to set up (one splitter and two War Engineers) but a triple Lab sounds pretty wild.

It's actually a lot easier to set up than you think. You don't even need a splitter, you can just play a War Engineer and then Sneak a War Engineer, since Sneaking doesn't take an Action. You'd need a Village to be able to play any Actions afterwards, but still.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2022, 08:53:16 am »
0



Quote
War Engineers - $4
Action
+1 Buy
+$2
----
Sneak: If this is the first time you played a War Engineers this turn, +1 Villager. Otherwise, +4 cards.

 A Woodcutter variant. The sneak ability is variable and dependent on if you have already played a War Engineers that turn. The Villager gain is mainly to enable the draw 4 ability in the rare cases that you have no +actions. I justify the draw 4 as it can only ever be used once a turn and the rest of the card is not entirely the best out there. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Changed the color on it. Not sure I like it, but that is what I got.
I’d also test this with +3 Cards. Sure, the effect is not too easy to set up (one splitter and two War Engineers) but a triple Lab sounds pretty wild.

It's actually a lot easier to set up than you think. You don't even need a splitter, you can just play a War Engineer and then Sneak a War Engineer, since Sneaking doesn't take an Action. You'd need a Village to be able to play any Actions afterwards, but still.
Sure, I assumed natural engine play. But of course the card could be broken in money decks as well.

Ok, really good feedback. I kinda didn't fully contemplate the implications of Sneak not costing an action. Gonna drop the draw to 3 cards. I think it will still be good in Big money, but I agree it is more reasonable to only draw 3 at the $4 price point.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2022, 01:19:49 pm »
0

I don’t think that it will be crazy in money decks as it is more likely that you draw into a dead War Engineer than having two in play such that you can play them for Woodcutter plus draw.

Yeah, that was the idea, but a small nerf shouldn't hurt it too much. IDK, could change it back before the end of the challenge.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2022, 06:39:53 am »
0

Withdrawing my previous entry, I like this one better:

Quote

Investment
Cost 5 Debt
Treasure - Sneak

$2
----
Sneak: Exchange this for a Province. Take 1 debt per card in the Investment pile.

In the regular WDC I was trying the idea of "take some debt to exchange this for a Province", but the problem is you can do several in a game-ending mega-turn and no-one cares about debt there. It's a good fit for a sneak ability, though, because it means you can only do it once per turn.

EDIT 28th Apr: Changed from Inheritance (above) to County Fair (below). Same idea, but I want it to be more spammable.

Quote
County Fair
Cost 4 Debt
Action - Sneak

+1 Action
+1 Card
+1 Buy
----
Sneak: Exchange this for a Province. Take 1 debt per card in the County Fair pile.

Considered various things for the top half, but this one seems best. Spammable, but weak enough that the whole card can cost 4. The debt cost is so that you have to buy them rather than gain them.

EDIT 28th Apr: And changing it again. Just cantrip +buy is too boring.

Right, think this is my final version:

Quote
Homestead
Cost 4 Debt
Action - Sneak

+2 Cards
+1 Buy
You may discard 2 cards for +2 Actions.
----
Sneak: Exchange this for a Province. Take 1 debt per card in the Homestead pile.

EDIT 29th Apr: Contest not closed yet? Just realised that top half of Homestead looks too strong in comparison with Inn. Maybe Peddler variant costing 5 is the way to go.

Quote
Surveyor
Cost 5 Debt
Action - Sneak

+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
----
Sneak: Exchange this for a Province. Take 1 debt per card in the Surveyor pile.

Different name for each of those attempts as I'm trying to be thematic with what the card does:
  • Investment seemed a good name for a treasure, you go into debt, and maybe the investment will work out well with a Province at the end of the day.
  • County Fair when it was just +Buy, because of the market theme, and it has things to do with land.
  • Homestead as in small village, and in the US the homestead thing is to do with acquiring land I think.
  • Surveyor now that it has +$1, that's someone who gets paid, and they're surveying some land that might become yours one day.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 02:43:32 am by infangthief »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2022, 10:15:32 pm »
0

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Timinou

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2022, 10:06:13 am »
+4



Quote from: Daggersmith
Action-Sneak - $5
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck. Put 3 of them into your hand and discard the rest.
-
Sneak: Play a non-Command, non-Duration Action, Treasure, or Night card costing up to $5 from the supply, leaving it there.

I didn't put the Command type on Guild Master as I don't think this can loop because of the once-per-turn restriction on Sneaking.

EDIT: Renamed card.  Thanks for pointing it out, emtzalex!

EDIT2: Added a cost restriction to the Sneak ability.  While being able to Sneak a play of Platinum, Fortune, or City Quarter might be exciting, I think the card is more balanced this way.

Original version:

« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 09:39:10 am by Timinou »
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week #35: Getting Sneaky
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2022, 03:30:37 pm »
+4



Quote from: Guild Master
Action-Sneak - $5
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck. Put 3 of them into your hand and discard the rest.
-
Sneak: Play a non-Command, non-Duration Action, Treasure, or Night card from the supply, leaving it there.

I didn't put the Command type on Guild Master as I don't think this can loop because of the once-per-turn restriction on Sneaking.

This card's name is nearly identical to the official card Guildmaster.
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he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.
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