Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3]  All

Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom  (Read 4063 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

infangthief

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 353
  • Shuffle iT Username: infangthief
  • Respect: +10000 (I wish)
  • Respect: +630
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2022, 03:30:09 am »
0

Is there any way to lose Well Served, or do all players have it for the whole game?
Logged

Xen3k

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 358
  • Respect: +460
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2022, 07:16:36 am »
0

Is there any way to lose Well Served, or do all players have it for the whole game?
They have it the whole game. It is a way to avoid cramming all those rules onto Servants Quarters. I guess it could grab a Landmark instead of giving a State to everyone, but that seems like a new mechanic entirely.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +4743
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2022, 07:35:55 am »
+1

Fief - $3
Action

Discard a card for + $3.
You may rotate the Fief pile.
-
Setup: Make a split pile out of these and 4 copies each of a random unused Kingdom card costing $4, $5 and $6.
The problem I see with this is that about half of the $6 cards in the game are weak for their cost and the bottom card of these piles wants to be strong. Might work better if the bottom card of the randomly-made split pile was a $2, so the bottom card would be a $5.
I don't agree with the premise that the bottom cards needs to be strong. Of the official rotating piles,
- Warlord is better than Territory
- Sorcerer is better than Lich
- Sorceress is better than Sibyl
- Hill Fort is better than Stronghold.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

spineflu

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1331
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2022, 09:01:55 am »
0

i'm not sure i agree with your middle two takes there faust.
Logged

Timinou

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 486
  • Respect: +628
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2022, 09:38:45 am »
0

i'm not sure i agree with your middle two takes there faust.

Disagree with Sorceress and Sibyl, but I find Lich to be skippable in most games.
Logged

Lackar

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Respect: +16
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2022, 10:15:07 am »
0

Distant Traveler
$2 Action - Reserve

+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern Mat.
-
At the start of your turn, you may call this. If you do Gain a Distant Lands.
-
Setup: Add Distant Lands outside of the supply pile.

Is the wording correct on the Setup? Thoughts on the price?
This is a card with a fairly irrelevant price as you donít want it early anyway (unless the Kingdom is a junk festival).
Any suggestions? Do you think the card is irrelevant in total? I could add +1 card or a victory token. I also thought about adding the same rule as distant lands about it being worth points if on the Tavern mat.
Logged

Joxeft

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 118
  • Respect: +98
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2022, 05:59:15 pm »
0

Im not sure if it is under priced or over. Also Setup: Add Distant Lands outside of the supply pile.
Distant Traveler
$2 Action - Reserve

+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern Mat.
-
At the start of your turn, you may call this. If you do Gain a Distant Lands.
-
Setup: Add Distant Lands outside of the supply pile.

Is the wording correct on the Setup? Thoughts on the price?
This is a card with a fairly irrelevant price as you donít want it early anyway (unless the Kingdom is a junk festival).
Any suggestions? Do you think the card is irrelevant in total? I could add +1 card or a victory token. I also thought about adding the same rule as distant lands about it being worth points if on the Tavern mat.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 06:05:15 pm by Joxeft »
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1277
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1936
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2022, 10:45:10 pm »
+2

Contest closes in 24 hours
Logged

Lackar

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Respect: +16
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2022, 11:48:16 pm »
0

Distant Traveler
$2 Action - Reserve

+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern Mat.
-
At the start of your turn, you may call this. If you do Gain a Distant Lands.
-
Setup: Add Distant Lands outside of the supply pile.

Is the wording correct on the Setup? Thoughts on the price?
This is a card with a fairly irrelevant price as you donít want it early anyway (unless the Kingdom is a junk festival).
Any suggestions? Do you think the card is irrelevant in total? I could add +1 card or a victory token. I also thought about adding the same rule as distant lands about it being worth points if on the Tavern mat.
Edited the original to add making it worth getting early and hope it's worth it.
Logged

alion8me

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
  • Shuffle iT Username: alion8me
  • Respect: +178
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2022, 12:52:49 am »
+2

Quote
Viceroy

Trash a card from your hand.
You may play an Action or Treasure that shares a type with it from your hand three times.

Heirloom: Bequeathment

Action - $5
Quote
Bequeathment

$1
Gain a card from the set-aside pile.
-
Setup: Set aside an unused Kingdom Action pile costing $3 or $4.

Treasure/Heirloom - $2

Logged

MochaMoko

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
  • Shuffle iT Username: MochaMoko
  • Respect: +106
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2022, 01:43:37 am »
+2



Quote
Band of Laborers
Action
+③
Discard 2 cards. Choose one:
+2 Cards; or play the set-
aside card, leaving it there.
-
Setup: set aside an unused
Action costing or .

These experienced folks are great at making a pretty penny. They've picked up a variety of skills from their travels. Sometimes when you've got a missing role to fill when making your little event, you tell them, hey can you guys do that thing for me. And they sing you a song, nail you some hammers, watch you some towers. It was a better idea to just go find that silly fellow with the lute. Maybe next time.
Logged

Trinity_

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
  • she/her
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2022, 06:34:06 pm »
+1


Quote
Warmongering
$1 Event
Once per turn: +1 Buy. Reveal the top 3 cards of the Warmonger deck. You may buy one of those cards this turn. Put the unbought cards on the bottom of the Warmonger deck at the end of the turn.
---
Setup: Make a Warmonger deck from at least 10 different unused Attack Kingdom cards.
I'm a fairly long time lurker of the design contest board, but I thought I might as well register so I could throw my hat in for this contest with a design I had already been thinking about.

Warmongering is a straightforward riff on Black Market, adding a selection of cards you can buy from "outside the game". The obvious card trait to call out to narrow down the selection for a set aside deck and to differentiate the effect from that of Black Market somewhat is Attack, which I think is great for guaranteeing that the Kingdom has opportunities for interaction. It also makes even more obvious the main draw of the Black Market effect - adding diverse terminal payload to an engine, for which Attacks are often perfect.

This much text is an awful lot for a landscape, but I think that might be forgivable for what is ultimately a relatively straightforward concept without any of Black Market's Treasures in the Action Phase and Buying without Buys fiddliness. It also wouldn't truly be a feasable card for a Dominion expansion given its requirements of your collection, but I can maybe imagine it as a promo. If I am to admit one major potential balance-related flaw of this design, it's that some Attacks - chiefly Ambassador - threaten to be very swingy if offered early and exclusively to a single player, but I don't know if further complicating or nerfing the card would be worth it just to deal with that.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2022, 07:07:49 pm by Trinity_ »
Logged

spineflu

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1331
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2022, 09:42:01 pm »
+1

Welcome to the forum!
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1277
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1936
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2022, 12:06:04 am »
+5

Contest Closed
I'll try to post the judging tomorrow. Here is the list of entries, please let me know if I missed any:

Excavate by JW
Fief by Faust
Spellcaster's Guild by emtzalex
Rally by AJL828
Facilitator by xyz123
Key by Chappy7
Foreign Lands by Carline
Trading Vessel by infangthief
Crusader by Firestix
Middleman by LastFootnote
Merchant Road by 4est
Grand Duke by Timinou
Wheel of Time by UltimateGeek
Work Assistant by Joxeft
Morph by LibraryAdventurer
Commune by spheremonk
Matchmaker by NoMoreFun
Distant Traveler by Lackar
Experimental Theologian by spineflu
Servants' Quarters by Xen3k
Viceroy by alion8me
Band of Laborers by MochaMoko
Warmongering by Trinity_
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1277
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1936
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2022, 12:07:00 am »
+11

I was very pleased by the diversity of ideas I got in this contest!

Excavate by JW
So, this is half Guildhall, half University. I think it will be more awkward than either of them, since engines are the main thing that want Villagers, but many engines are allergic to Treasures. Does it really need the extra Treasure pile? Given that Guildhall doesnít add another kingdom Treasure pile to the game, it seems like this wouldnít need to either. I think Guildhall, University and Sculptor already covered this ground pretty well.

Fief by Faust
It seems lot of people liked this idea. Well, so do I. A make-your-own rotating split pile is a super cool idea, and one that I hadnít even considered. About the implementation, though, the top card seems too strong. Compare to Horse Traders: it costs $4 and forces you to discard 2 cards, but this costs $3 and only forces you to discard 1. Also, maybe the bottom card should be $6 or greater? That would open up more possibilities. Someone also suggested making it a $2-to-$5 pile instead, which is also worth considering.

Spellcasterís Guild by emtzalex
I like it. Favors are already a way to expand a cardís abilities in unpredictable ways, and this adds to that.

Rally by AJL828
This is basically a Seer, but it only works on one card. It has the potential problem of swinging heavily on how good the Supporter is, particularly whether or not the Supporter is terminal. If itís something you donít want, then you wonít get it and you have no reason to get Rally either. Iím not sure this adds much to the game that isnít already added by Seer.

Facilitator by xyz123
The basic idea is similar to Band of Misfits, but thereís no other way to play the set-aside cards, and you donít need to worry about piles emptying. Iím not sure this adds much that Band of Misfits doesnít already add.

Key by Chappy7
So you canít normally gain the locked cards, right? I ask because it says the locked cards are added ďto the supplyĒ, but my understanding is that being ďin the supplyĒ means that you can gain the card. Either way, this is similar to the Potion mechanic in that itís an extra hoop you have to jump through to get a card. Potions are one of the least-liked mechanics in the game because jumping through that extra hoop is often awkward and not fun. Unfortunately, I suspect that this card would be similar.

Foreign Lands by Carline
This is another card whose value is going to swing heavily on how good the added pile is. If the added pile is a bad terminal, then itís hard to see when this would ever be worth going for: it will be at most 8 VP, but cost $10 and 2 Buys and take up two spaces in your deck. If the added pile is something you want anyway, this becomes that ďworth 1 VP per copy of thisĒ outtake that Donald tried and said didnít work. There can be in-between scenarios, but I think the extremes will happen a lot, like they happen with Obelisk.

Trading Vessel by infangthief
This offers very interesting choices around player interactivity, which I like a lot. The problem is, itís a Merchant Ship variant. Merchant Ship sucks. If it gives your opponents a benefit, it double sucks. I suspect this would end up being Woodcutter 2.0, a card only bought grudgingly for the +Buy. Put on a different Vanilla bonus and you have a solid card.

Crusader by Firestix
So, this has the interesting restriction of the extra pile having to be a Victory card. At first I thought this would be less interesting than the other entries simply because of how relatively few Kingdom Victory piles there are, but now Iím rethinking that. Victory cards are different from other Kingdom piles in that the point at which you actually want them in your deck varies dramatically depending on the card. Nobles is something you want as soon as possible, Mill is good to get early, Tunnel is good to get once you can support it, Gardens and Silk Road are either grabbed at the end or rushed in the beginning, Distant Lands is a midgame card, Fairgrounds is an endgame card. So basically the strategy for this card is going to be very different depending on what the Holy Land card is, and that makes it very interesting.

Middleman by LastFootnote
This seems like exactly the wrong amount of randomness. Black Market is fun because you really have no idea what youíll turn over. Plus, the power of whatever you get is limited by the fact that thereís only one copy. With this, you have a good but not perfect idea of what youíll turn over, often creating expectations that will frustratingly lead to disappointment. I can see the complaints when the game is over: ďYou only won because you happened to get more X!Ē I do like how simple and easy to resolve it is: no choice to make, just gain the top card. I wonder if it would be better if the pile were more diverse? Maybe it would be too similar to Black Market then.

Merchant Road by 4est
I like it. This is a good implementation of the idea of a Treasure that gives you $ per Action card you have in play. The problem with that idea is that the value will vary wildly depending on the Kingdom; this solves that nicely by limiting it to one card and guaranteeing that card is non-terminal. I think I would get rid of the ability to gain the Good, though. That part doesnít seem needed and a $5 Treasure that gains Grand Markets is pretty broken. A 5/2 split might be gg. I know the gaining would make this easier to use if thereís a really pathetic Good like Pearl Diver, but Iíve seen plenty of games where Pearl Diver empties simply because itís a cantrip. The fact that the extra pile is always non-terminal might lead to less diverse strategies than some of these other entries. But I think the interesting decisions will still be there, and the fact that it's guaranteed not to be a dud terminal might actually make it more interesting.

Grand Duke by Timinou
This is too strong. It combines two abilities that on their own are both very strong. Other $5 gainers canít play an additional $5 ability on this turn and the next, and Captain canít gain $5 cards. You have to discard a Victory card but that doesnít seem too hard, for the same reason that Villainís attack is weak: in the beginning youíll have Estates, then later on youíll have Provinces.

Wheel Of Time by UltimateGeek
Wow, points for craziness! Of course, the immediate complaint will be, ďwhat if somebody starts off with an obviously better card?Ē This situation definitely seems unfair: if Player A wants Player Bís card, they first need to rotate the pile to gain Saidin, then play Saidin, but that still wonít actually play the card they want, so Player B gets 2 plays of a good card to Player Aís 2 plays of a bad card. And then Player B can just rotate the card back before Player A can actually play it! In the long run enough other things can happen to even out the number of plays, but in Dominion, the first few turns are crucial. So while I think all the rotating wackiness could be fun once youíre able to play multiple cards from the pile every turn, as it is this is horribly unbalanced. At the very least the price range of the cards should be limited, maybe to just $3 and $4, but even then some lopsided games would emerge.

Work Assistant by Joxeft
So basically this is like the +1 Card token but you canít choose the pile to put it on and you have to play another (cantrip) card first. I think this will lead to lots of interesting strategic decisions about how many of this and the extra card to buy and when. However, I would drop the part about returning to your Action phase, that just adds unnecessary complication. I suspect the reason you added this is to help if the extra pile is a Treasure, but I think the best way to fix this is to instead limit the type to Action cards.

Morph by LibraryAdventurer
I love the how this works thematically. The shapeshifter can become anything, but always has to start out as its true form. The part about taking debt if the played card is over $5 is definitely clunky, though. I think a better way to limit the power of this card is to instead force the true form card to be something cheap. That would also be cool thematically: the shapeshifterís true form is something small and pitiful, but then it can become something big and monstrous.

Commune by spheremonk
This is more of the pure Black Market-stye randomness that I was looking for in a card like Middleman. Iím torn about whether or not this should have the Attack type, since the effect on other players varies so wildly. I think what I would do is make it an Attack and drop the Goat. The idea of an Attack fills your deck with a bunch of random mediocre cards seems very amusing. Overall, this looks fun.

Matchmaker by NoMoreFun
I think Iíd like this better as an Event that lets you put a pair of tokens on two Action piles. That would be simpler while also making an additional interesting choice with regard to the Action piles. I do like the basic idea. But throwing in another card that can play either of the cards to me seems too complicated.

Distant Traveler by Lackar
To me this really seems like an auto-buy, and then a no-brainer when using. The interesting choice in Distant Lands is whether to gain it or a $5 card that will help your engine. You get this and then you donít need make that decision. The decision of whether to leave it on your Tavern Mat will also rarely come up. With this the Distant Lands pile will nearly always empty long before the game ends, leaving plenty of time for a final placement back on the Tavern Mat.

Experimental Theologian by spineflu
I think this will need a ton of support to be worth going for, and I think the strict cost restrictions on the cards it can work with end up making this less interesting than it could be. Maybe if instead of $3 and $5 it was a card costing less than this and a card costing more than this?

Servantsí Quarters by Xen3k
So basically this causes you to gain extra points and extra junk when you buy a Victory card. And really, if you consider the fact that the extra points even out, it will just be extra junk. This will push the game towards megaturns. The game already favors these, so it will mostly serve to make sloggy games more sloggy. I actually think this would work better without the extra Duchy and Estate piles, since the normal Duchy and Estate piles are often ignored themselves. Either way, the idea doesnít interest me too much; I donít think sloggy games need to be more sloggy.

Viceroy by Alion8me
Viceroy seems interesting. Is it too strong? Trashing a Copper and then playing a Silver 3 times seems bonkers to me. You have to line them up, of course, but then thereís a swinginess problem. The basic idea doesnít really need the Heirloom, but being able to gain a bunch of cheap Action cards to trash will definitely help. Would the card be more interesting without this obvious helper, though?

Band of Laborers by MochaMoko
This seems OK. It doesnít really grab me, though. The vanilla effects feel arbitrary. Iím not sure what else to say about it.

Warmongering by Trinity_
Itís a Black Market for Attacks. This could actually mitigate the problems of Black Market randomly giving out powerful Attacks, because, well, everything this gives you is an Attack. Granted, some Attacks are garbage, but the probability of all 3 revealed cards being garbage seems small. This might perhaps have a similar problem with the Hexes in that being hit with a lot of different Attacks is often more brutal than being hit with the same Attack over and over, but it might not be so brutal as to be totally unfun. I think this mostly avoids the randomness problem of Hexes, though, since thereís strategy in choosing the Attack to buy. Overall, this could be fun.

Runners-up: Fief by Faust, Crusader by Firestix, Spellcaster's Guild by emtzalex

Second place: commune by spheremonk

Winner: Merchant Road by 4est
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3209
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +4743
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2022, 08:25:50 am »
+1

Fief by Faust
It seems lot of people liked this idea. Well, so do I. A make-your-own rotating split pile is a super cool idea, and one that I hadnít even considered. About the implementation, though, the top card seems too strong. Compare to Horse Traders: it costs $4 and forces you to discard 2 cards, but this costs $3 and only forces you to discard 1. Also, maybe the bottom card should be $6 or greater? That would open up more possibilities. Someone also suggested making it a $2-to-$5 pile instead, which is also worth considering.
I was comparing to Gladiator rather than Horse Traders. Horse Traders is a pretty weak $4, and it would be even sadder without the reaction and the +Buy. Gladiator is a $3 that can also produce $3. Fief is probably a bit better because it is more reliable in the early game, but that is a feature, not a bug - the top card of a rotating pile should be powerful.

It's true that making it $2-$5 might work better, you'd just need to find a simple effect that doesn't take up much space for the $2.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

4est

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 280
  • Shuffle iT Username: 4est
  • Respect: +1062
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest #148: Expand The Kingdom
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2022, 09:24:46 am »
+2

Wow, there were so many tremendous ideas this week, was not expecting the win, thanks Commodore Chuckles. I'll try to get the next context up later today.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]  All
 

Page created in 0.098 seconds with 22 queries.