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Author Topic: Dominion: Enterprise  (Read 412326 times)

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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #825 on: March 06, 2015, 07:26:06 pm »
+1

I don't think I understand your proposal.

XP has a fan expansion (progress). His close ones don't feel super thrilled to play with it, but would be ok with playing with someone else's fan expansion. Probably because they feel like XP couldn't be objective about the worth of his own fan cards, as opposed to someone else's, so playing with the latter seems like a safer bet.

His proposal is that you play with his cards from time to time, and he will play with yours. I am not sure who is the advantaged side in his 2-1 proposal, but from common experience with negotiation techniques, I expect you to be the favoured one.

Exactly.

Add me to the list of people who prefer the new convoy. I thought the last one looked kind of interesting, but never tried it because of all the words. Vendor to me is still somewhat unexciting, but it looks like a solid effect and I wouldn't call it boring. The one-shot ness of it makes it much less cool-feeling, but I can imagine it would feel great in a game with trade -token gainers.
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crlundy

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #826 on: March 08, 2015, 01:17:26 am »
+2

I know this thread has moved on from Dignitary, but I've only just caught up on what's happened in the long while since I've checked this thread. The reaction part of Dignitary may have gotten left behind when Harbor sailed in, but I think you said that was the idea behind the card and I thought it might still be on the back-burner of things to fix up. Has this wording been considered in avoiding the Fortress loop?
Quote
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, choose 4 cards in your hand and trash the rest.

Cf the original text. My suggestion is barely longer, but I know that can make all the difference.
Quote
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, trash all but 4 cards from your hand.

And if you think the top suggestion could be misconstrued as trashing the rest of all your cards (since all printed cards using "the rest" refer first to a set of revealed cards), then it'd have to be the longer still
Quote
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, choose 4 cards in your hand and trash the rest of your hand.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #827 on: March 08, 2015, 01:07:44 pm »
+1

Dignitary lives, man. It looks like this now:



I was avoiding doing the reaction this way for a long time, since you could potentially do a lot of Dignitary reactions by drawing more Dignitaries. But I've tested it and in practice it's just not an issue.

Anyway, this new version has been working fine for awhile now. I could change the top, but so far nobody in my IRL games is complaining that it's too much like Harbor.
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crlundy

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #828 on: March 08, 2015, 02:02:35 pm »
+1

Huzzah! I guess I was reading too quickly. Glad to see it lives on, I like trashing. I suppose it looses certain combos with Council Room and whatnot, but those won't come up too often anyway. Only thing is, shouldn't it say "+2 Cards" at the end instead of "draw 2 Cards"? "Draw" is only used when opponents draw cards (exceptions: draw-to-X, Outpost, Envoy).
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #829 on: March 08, 2015, 03:12:01 pm »
+1

Huzzah! I guess I was reading too quickly. Glad to see it lives on, I like trashing. I suppose it looses certain combos with Council Room and whatnot, but those won't come up too often anyway. Only thing is, shouldn't it say "+2 Cards" at the end instead of "draw 2 Cards"? "Draw" is only used when opponents draw cards (exceptions: draw-to-X, Outpost, Envoy).

Yes, I think the reason it says "draw 2 cards" is so that "+2 Cards" isn't on its own line at the bottom. It looked weird to me. Maybe it's not such a big deal and I should change it. Either way it gets the point across. I guess I also feel like "then draw X Cards" makes it clearer that you draw after doing whatever else. Maybe that's just in my mind.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #830 on: March 08, 2015, 04:29:49 pm »
0

I updated the OP.

• Removed Axeman, Committee, and Cathedral.
• Added Tinker, Harbor, and Conquest.
• Updated Convoy, Vendor, General, Dignitary, and Domain.
• The images are now high-resolution images that have been shrunk down using the img tag. This makes them look way nicer and means that you have easy access to printable versions.
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Minotaur

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #831 on: March 08, 2015, 05:40:01 pm »
+1

Dignitary lives, man. It looks like this now:



I was avoiding doing the reaction this way for a long time, since you could potentially do a lot of Dignitary reactions by drawing more Dignitaries. But I've tested it and in practice it's just not an issue.

Anyway, this new version has been working fine for awhile now. I could change the top, but so far nobody in my IRL games is complaining that it's too much like Harbor.

If you wanted to have it not stack with itself, you could instead have Dignitary set itself aside, trash a card, and return itself to your hand on your turn.  It seems like you could trash a ton of cards rapidly in a non-junking attack game, and handsize-neutral trashing is pretty strong when it's totally optional and you have the actual action not depend on trashing at all - it doesn't have the drawback of making itself obsolete like Spice Merchant.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #832 on: March 08, 2015, 05:58:47 pm »
0

Setting it aside is clunkier and takes at least another line of text. It works great on Horse Traders for multiple reasons, but it's not so great here.

I understand the concern about its power, but I'm really not so worried. If you have enough Dignitaries that you're actually pulling it off, your deck has too many Dignitaries. Especially now that it always reduces your hand size when played, it's just not practical to have so many of them. If it's ever a problem in even one of my playtest games, I'll re-evaluate it. So far this reaction has been working great.
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Minotaur

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #833 on: March 08, 2015, 06:02:37 pm »
+1

Setting it aside is clunkier and takes at least another line of text. It works great on Horse Traders for multiple reasons, but it's not so great here.

I understand the concern about its power, but I'm really not so worried. If you have enough Dignitaries that you're actually pulling it off, your deck has too many Dignitaries. Especially now that it always reduces your hand size when played, it's just not practical to have so many of them. If it's ever a problem in even one of my playtest games, I'll re-evaluate it. So far this reaction has been working great.

Cool, I just wanted to throw the option out there in case you hadn't thought of it yet.  This card would be strongest with a Village and a strong non-junking attack card, I would think.  But then again, it's more useful *with* a junk attack, just less combo-able early.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #834 on: March 09, 2015, 03:08:05 pm »
+1

Dignitary lives, man. It looks like this now:



Man, I thought I was following the discussion about Dignitary but I guess I wasn't closely enough. I didn't know you changed the bottom part but it looks neat! Together with the new top, Dignitary should be quite the versatile power-card but there's still a reasonable limit as to how many Dignitaries you want in your deck, which I like. I would like to play-test it when I find the time and right people.

I updated the OP.

• Removed Axeman, Committee, and Cathedral.
• Added Tinker, Harbor, and Conquest.
• Updated Convoy, Vendor, General, Dignitary, and Domain.
• The images are now high-resolution images that have been shrunk down using the img tag. This makes them look way nicer and means that you have easy access to printable versions.

It's true, everything looks even better now. You set is becoming more and more attractive with well-tested cards and interesting mechanisms. But may I ask what was the problem with Cathedral? I remember play-testing it and it seemed quite strong in combination with a village, especially when it also happens to be a TT gainer (Terrace).
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #835 on: March 09, 2015, 03:38:22 pm »
0

But may I ask what was the problem with Cathedral? I remember play-testing it and it seemed quite strong in combination with a village, especially when it also happens to be a TT gainer (Terrace).

I only tested Cathedral once or twice. It seemed strong and un-fun at the same time. And now I have Harbor and Wheelwright, which I think are filling my $5-terminal-draw quota. Admittedly neither of them is on-theme, but the number of Trade token cards has been on the upswing in general, I think. Let's see: Jubilee, Tinker, Convoy, Craftsman, Terrace, Barter, Vendor. Seven cards. It would be nice to have eight. Eight seems like a good number of cards for a normal-sized set theme to have. Eight Durations in Seaside. Eight on-trash abilities in Dark Ages (if you count Market Square and don't count Overgrown Estate or Sir Vander). Hinterlands has nine on-gain/buy cards.

So I would like to have another Trade token card. I would like to have another (ideally cheap) Attack card (I will probably test new Bookkeeper, but would prefer something more on-theme; also Conquest might not work out). I would like to have another terminal $5 card or two. Right now I've only got Barrister, Harbor, and Wheelwright. I may have to cut e.g. Refurbish to make room for all this stuff. There are 24 cards in the set now and there's only room for one more. Or I guess I could increase it to 400 cards and have room for ≈34 Kingdom cards. As if I had enough ideas to fill that out.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #836 on: March 09, 2015, 05:13:05 pm »
+2

Why is it so important to you that the size of your set is in accordance with original set sizes? Who cares? It's your own expansion, and you can do whatever you want. Why can't you set have 27 cards or 29?

That said, I think you should definitely include as many trade token cards as you have good ideas involving them. They're what makes your set most special. There's probably room for a cheap attack that you can make significantly stronger once by paying a trade token. I'm looking forward to your ideas.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 05:15:44 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #837 on: March 09, 2015, 05:28:21 pm »
+1

Why is it so important to you that the size of your set is in accordance with original set sizes? Who cares? It's your own expansion, and you can do whatever you want. Why can't you set have 27 cards or 29?

The idea is that you can just buy a copy of e.g. Seaside and use it to proxy up Enterprise. So although the total number of Kingdom cards is flexible, it would be good to keep the total number of cards at 300. Conscripts and Domains take up enough space that 25 Kingdom cards would fit.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #838 on: March 09, 2015, 09:09:57 pm »
+1

That reminds me: I think i read about somebody who playtested his cards by printing them on normal paper, simply putting them in a sleeve with an official card. Was that you? I find it hard to imagine printing on blanks (or allready printed cards even) would give satisfactory results. If you actually print on the cards, may i ask what printer you use?

On an unrelated note, it seems somehow your comment on Tinker got missing in the OP. Also, while at it, i should probably mention that i think Convoy is now a much better card than it was before.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #839 on: March 09, 2015, 09:14:46 pm »
+1

That reminds me: I think i read about somebody who playtested his cards by printing them on normal paper, simply putting them in a sleeve with an official card. Was that you? I find it hard to imagine printing on blanks (or allready printed cards even) would give satisfactory results. If you actually print on the cards, may i ask what printer you use?

I print on paper and put it in a sleeve with an official card. I think that's the way everybody does it. Even if I could print right onto cards, it would be completely impractical since I add, remove, and change my cards frequently.

On an unrelated note, it seems somehow your comment on Tinker got missing in the OP.

Thanks, I'll fix that.

Also, while at it, i should probably mention that i think Convoy is now a much better card than it was before.

Excellent! I hope this version works out. At least that first game with it seemed good.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #840 on: March 10, 2015, 07:44:26 pm »
+2

I hope you don't mind if i give some pointless babbling about your cards:



I like it. It's simple, clean, still has something to it. The only thing i'm a bit worried about is that it might make Oasis look a bit superfluous. Sure, Oasis draws a card, but Auction gives a buy, costs less, can't be drawn dead and can make ALL cards in your hand to money. It also seems to be pretty good for Big Money+Draw.




Another simple, clever idea. My favourite of your set.




I'll be honest: I'm not a fan of one-shots. Somehow i feel they go against the whole deckbuilding premise. Sure, not doing any would be wasted design space, but you make it the premise of an entire set. I'm not sure one-shots are a mechanic special enough to carry that. Most certainly it doesn't seem like the kind of set i'd recommend for a beginner to get used to Dominion, if that says anything.

Then again, most of us aren't beginners, and i'm definitely astounded how much variety you achieve while staying inside this one design space. One-shots ARE underrepresented in official Dominion, too, and even if you made a lot of them, there are so many cards that "one-shot-heavy" boards are unlikely anyhow. So i guess personal preference is all i can give as reasons why i'm a bit more sceptical here.

Looking at the individual cards, i see nothing wrong with Jubilee. It's probably balanced, and being the only "hard" trade token one-shot makes it a bit more interesting then it would be without. I guess i can spare you analysis of how good or bad it might be, you know that better than me. Interest-wise, it's good enough, but as there are a few more interesting trade token cards in the set, they steal Jubilee's spotlight. I feel it looks a bit like how Monument would look if Prosperity had not three, but eight +VP cards. So i guess that's another problem i have with having so many trade token cards - individual cards seem less exciting.




I'm not sure what the best use case for this is. It's interesting that what you get isn't dependant on Redistrict, but the card it trashed. Not sure i like the wording, but i guess "the trashed card" would seem to refer to Redistrict itself. I'm a bit indifferent, but it's obviously okay. I probably underestimate it.




Hmm... Now that i think about it, on-gain/on-buy IS a one-shot mechanic... Maybe i'm misjudging this entire thing... Either way, Floodgate seems cute. And it's cheap enough for its ability to be actually useful. I like it.




I didn't like this one at first, but it has some appeal. At least it's not like it's going to harm you at any point. It probably feels unsatisfying to trash it very early, and i don't think the one-time Lab makes up for it. On the other hand i think the idea is clever and interesting, which is why Gambler made it on my list of "other people's cards that i want to print to use myself".




A Village that rewards you for junk? Hm... I guess gaining some cheap engine components is easy enough, especially early, so you don't have to go for Mill Town megaturns to get something of it. Fine, i think.




I like the on-play, and i realize it interacts with the bottom. Still, i feel it's not as interesting as a whole, maybe because the bottom part is, well, Silversmith. Sorry if i'm being harsh. I'm a bit tired, i hope it doesn't shine through in me spilling unreflected nonsense...




One of the trade token cards i meant when i said there are more interesting ones than Jubilee. Actually i like it quite a bit. It's my second favourite of the set, right now.




Not as special as Tinker, but still nice. Very simple to grasp, too. I like it more than Terrace or Jubilee, but i don't really know why. Maybe because it's new?




Finally, a way to get trade tokens. If you had none of these, something would feel lacking. In that respect, i like it. The effect as such isn't really special, but not every card needs to be. The token gaining is enough to make it stand out, i think.




Dignitary finally gives us a trashing reaction, so that's cool. I'm one of those people who don't like discarding reaction cards, because i always feel it makes me lose something... Beggar is agonizing to me. Dignitarys reaction is something like a counterpart to its on-play, though, so i guess you just have to decide whether the cards in your hand are too good (keep some for later) or too bad (get something else). Don't know what to do when inbetween, but maybe that's the challenge.




I don't really know why, but i kind of dislike Conscripts Profiteer. Conscripts is basically a Silver most of the time, sure, and it can curse other players (once), but it can also be drawn dead. That alone might make some people feel they have been Swindlered. Still, i think my main concern is that Conscripts is pretty complex, especially for a card you can't decide against. I play with quite a few people who are not experienced Dominion players and if i give them a Curse or a Silver, they immediately get that i do something bad or nice. If they think they don't understand a card in the supply, hey, they can just ignore it and buy Smithy instead. Either way, if you don't want to play a Conscripts deck, i can still make you. I think that's really what i mean with "Swindlered" - not that the card is bad, but that the card isn't something i wanted. Sure, there's Masquerade and Ambassador that can give you different cards, but typically you'll get Estates or Coppers, anyhow.




It's allright. Like Convoy and Jubilee, it suffers from the fact they act a bit similar. The effect still seems good enough to be worth the spot, though. as i said, i like Convoy a tad more.




Much better than Profiteer. I can see how this avoids my complaints about Conscripts from before... Hmm. It's also clever how you made a semi-one-shot Curser work :)




I don't really like it. It has just too much going on, a bit like a minigame inside a game. Also, isn't Barrister strictly better than Explorer? Again, sorry if i'm harsh. Edit: No, of course it's not. Sorry, i didn't think. Still, i'm not really convinced of the mini game. :/




Hm, i guess the +1 action makes the most sense when you gain the card in hand... On it's own it probably isn't worth the jump to $5, but i guess buying this with a few Silvers makes it a really worthwile buy. It's good.




It seems like not only Domain, but every dual-type card makes this better. Hmm... A Lab that gets an advantage from dual-type cards? That's new. I like it :)




The "to $6" is the only thing keeping this from being strictly better than Saboteur, which seems a bit thin. Sure, Saboteur is weak and has the greatest effect when hitting Provinces (or, heaven forbid, Colonies), but still it will usually just hit Silvers and such. The +1 action makes this really spammable, too. I think it's too good.
I remembered this is a one-shot set and re-read the text. Of course it trashes itself. I think it's fine.




I had a very similar idea once (Stocks), which also gave a Silver in hand. The biggest difference was that it gave a Silver to the other players, too. That said, your card seems better balanced. I like it.




It's very simple and looks good. Not sure about the name, though. I feel it implies an attack type, as if you could only return attack cards with it. Good that that's not the case.




I think i allready mentioned i like this. Well, if not, i like this. It's nice and easy.




Good for you that Donald never made the vanilla $4 Peddler... He couldn't after this. It's not bad, but i'm not sure whether doing a Peddler+ at $4 isn't something you should avoid.

I don't know why, but i thought this costed $4... I'm really tired it seems... Either way, Peddler looks a bit weak for $5, but then again the one-shot bonus is really, really nice. I think it's fine.




The drawback is something i've waited to see on a card, and i think it's nice here. A nice mix of Library, discard for benefit, and Council Room (in a way). I think i like it :)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 07:50:39 pm by Asper »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #841 on: March 10, 2015, 10:17:11 pm »
+1

Just a minor thing I noticed: On Gambler it says "that card" two times when it could just say "it." You could shorten the text there which, so I've heard, is something you like to do ;)
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #842 on: March 10, 2015, 10:53:21 pm »
+1



I like it. It's simple, clean, still has something to it. The only thing i'm a bit worried about is that it might make Oasis look a bit superfluous. Sure, Oasis draws a card, but Auction gives a buy, costs less, can't be drawn dead and can make ALL cards in your hand to money. It also seems to be pretty good for Big Money+Draw.


I'm confused... how does this compare to Oasis in any way? Oasis is a cheap Peddler with a penalty. You could play a bunch of them, and then a draw-to-x. Or just play 1 or 2 as if it were a Peddler; discarding a worthless card in the process. Auction is automatically always going to be the last card you can play in a turn. (Edge case: Golem hits Black Market + Card Draw). It's more like a Secret Chamber, in that it turns your worthless cards into Coppers.
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Minotaur

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #843 on: March 11, 2015, 02:29:57 am »
+2



I like it. It's simple, clean, still has something to it. The only thing i'm a bit worried about is that it might make Oasis look a bit superfluous. Sure, Oasis draws a card, but Auction gives a buy, costs less, can't be drawn dead and can make ALL cards in your hand to money. It also seems to be pretty good for Big Money+Draw.


I'm confused... how does this compare to Oasis in any way? Oasis is a cheap Peddler with a penalty. You could play a bunch of them, and then a draw-to-x. Or just play 1 or 2 as if it were a Peddler; discarding a worthless card in the process. Auction is automatically always going to be the last card you can play in a turn. (Edge case: Golem hits Black Market + Card Draw). It's more like a Secret Chamber, in that it turns your worthless cards into Coppers.

All of these are "turn cards into coins" variants.  This card and Secret Chamber both penalize your handsize by one on top of that.  I'd say that this card is stronger than Secret Chamber, if not for the reaction.  Oasis obviously parties the best with Library variants.

Playing X copies of Oasis can have the same effect as playing Auction, except you will have one more card to work with and one less buy.  But you have to have exactly X copies.
Playing Auction once or playing Secret Chamber once can have the same effect as Auction, except for the + buy and Auction won't have terminal collisions.

The only other one I can think of right now is Vault, but that +2 cards is a big deal.  Village-Smithy-Secret Chamber.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #844 on: March 11, 2015, 05:07:30 am »
+1

I'm confused... how does this compare to Oasis in any way? Oasis is a cheap Peddler with a penalty. You could play a bunch of them, and then a draw-to-x. Or just play 1 or 2 as if it were a Peddler; discarding a worthless card in the process. Auction is automatically always going to be the last card you can play in a turn. (Edge case: Golem hits Black Market + Card Draw). It's more like a Secret Chamber, in that it turns your worthless cards into Coppers.

Try not to think of Oasis as a Peddler, but of a cantrip that turns one of your cards into a Copper. Auction does the same thing, but with all cards left in your hand. As Minotaur said, one Auction equals X Oasises, where X is the number of junk cards in your hand, with the penalty of exactly one card. Draw-to-X is an edge case i didn't think of, where the cards behave different.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 05:09:31 am by Asper »
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #845 on: March 11, 2015, 10:00:15 am »
+1

I'm confused... how does this compare to Oasis in any way? Oasis is a cheap Peddler with a penalty. You could play a bunch of them, and then a draw-to-x. Or just play 1 or 2 as if it were a Peddler; discarding a worthless card in the process. Auction is automatically always going to be the last card you can play in a turn. (Edge case: Golem hits Black Market + Card Draw). It's more like a Secret Chamber, in that it turns your worthless cards into Coppers.

Try not to think of Oasis as a Peddler, but of a cantrip that turns one of your cards into a Copper. Auction does the same thing, but with all cards left in your hand. As Minotaur said, one Auction equals X Oasises, where X is the number of junk cards in your hand, with the penalty of exactly one card. Draw-to-X is an edge case i didn't think of, where the cards behave different.

It looks like you're saying that Auction is a cantrip when obviously it's not. Oasis draws a card while Auction doesn't, and that can make a big difference. I think of Oasis as a sifter rather than a Peddler. Playing multiple Oases helps you cycle your deck and potentially find cards you want right now rather than next turn. Multiple Auctions in your hand do you no good. I'm not even saying that this is a reason for Auction to cost $3 because, from my point of view, these two cards are hardly comparable.
On the other hand, Auction is clearly stronger than Secret Chamber's on-play ability and the only thing that might make Secret Chamber not look utterly terrible next to Auction is its reaction part. And it's not even a good reaction. So Auction might as well cost $3. But, then again, Secret Chamber is like the worst card in Dominion at the cost of $2. We've had that topic already and I still think Auction would look way less compelling at $3 and it's fine at $2.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #846 on: March 11, 2015, 10:10:06 am »
+1

I'm confused... how does this compare to Oasis in any way? Oasis is a cheap Peddler with a penalty. You could play a bunch of them, and then a draw-to-x. Or just play 1 or 2 as if it were a Peddler; discarding a worthless card in the process. Auction is automatically always going be the last card you can play in a turn. (Edge case: Golem hits Black Market + Card Draw). It's more like a Secret Chamber, in that it turns your worthless cards into Coppers.

Try not to think of Oasis as a Peddler, but of a cantrip that turns one of your cards into a Copper. Auction does the same thing, but with all cards left in your hand. As Minotaur said, one Auction equals X Oasises, where X is the number of junk cards in your hand, with the penalty of exactly one card. Draw-to-X is an edge case i didn't think of, where the cards behave different.

It looks like you're saying that Auction is a cantrip when obviously it's not. Oasis draws a card while Auction doesn't, and that can make a big difference. I think of Oasis as a sifter rather than a Peddler. Playing multiple Oases helps you cycle your deck and potentially find cards you want right now rather than next turn. Multiple Auctions in your hand do you no good. I'm not even saying that this is a reason for Auction to cost $3 because, from my point of view, these two cards are hardly comparable.
On the other hand, Auction is clearly stronger than Secret Chamber's on-play ability and the only thing that might make Secret Chamber not look utterly terrible next to Auction is its reaction part. And it's not even a good reaction. So Auction might as well cost $3. But, then again, Secret Chamber is like the worst card in Dominion at the cost of $2. We've had that topic already and I still think Auction would look way less compelling at $3 and it's fine at $2.

Playing a lot of Oasises just means replacing a lot of Oasises. Not having them in your hand in the first place works just as well for that. The only real effect Oasis gives is discarding junk in your hand for coins, and Auction does that better. Also comparing multiple Oasises to multiple Auctions isn't reasonable - the biggest advantage of Auction over Oasis is that you need far less. That said, a single Auction with an arbitrary number of junk cards is still only one card behind the same junk with an equal number of Oasises.
Edited because i was talking nonsense..
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 10:14:58 am by Asper »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #847 on: March 11, 2015, 10:31:51 am »
+1

I still don't see it. After you play Oasis, you continue your turn like normal, except now you have an extra coin, a new card, and 1 less total card in hand. Just like having played a Peddler, except the 1 less total card in hand part. The main point is that it's not something you play at the end of your turn. You can follow it with a terminal, or just continue your engine; drawing and playing all sorts of more cards. Auction is forced to always be the last card you play. It won't cycle your deck; and it won't give you any money at all if you have no unused cards in your hand. If your entire hand is 1 Oasis, then Oasis is basically a Copper. If your entire hand it 1 Auction, then Auction is a Ruined Market.
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #848 on: March 11, 2015, 10:52:46 am »
+2

If your hand is one Auction and X Estates, you play Auction and discard those Estates, getting $X. If your hand is X Oases, you play those Oases, draw X cards, and discard those same X cards, getting $X. Essentially, Auction's impact is turning the junk in your hand into Oases.

There are differences, for sure. The Oasis strategy requires only X cards in your hand, while doing it with Auction requires X+1 cards, one being Auction, in exchange for only needing one Auction rather than X Oases. And of course you lose the opportunity you'd get with the Oases to discard other Oases and keep the cards you'd draw, but those are the cards you'd draw anyway if not for having that Oasis.


Yeah this doesn't really hold up.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 03:50:56 pm by TheOthin »
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #849 on: March 11, 2015, 10:59:40 am »
+2

If your hand is one Auction and X Estates, you play Auction and discard those Estates, getting $X. If your hand is X Oases, you play those Oases, draw X cards, and discard those same X cards, getting $X. Essentially, Auction's impact is turning the junk in your hand into Oases.

Well, that it certainly isn't. It's essentially turning the junk in your hand into Coppers.
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