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Author Topic: Dominion: Enterprise  (Read 412340 times)

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Thanar

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #250 on: February 11, 2014, 12:50:28 am »
+1

Just by an extra Dominion expansion that you already have and use those cards as "blanks" with sleeves. For example, I bought an extra Hinterlands a while back to qualify an order for free shipping. A little searching with boardgameprices.com and the # of cards per expansion should be enough to figure out which one gives you the least cost per card and give you enough cards for Dominion: Enterprise.

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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #251 on: February 11, 2014, 11:58:21 am »
+1

ok, so, first of all: this looks really good. almost all cards are interesting and it feels like there's a lot of thought put into making this expansion.

Thanks! It's been in the works for a long time.

second, i'd encourage you to put some more stuff into the opening post, like the downloads for the current versions of all cards, and the "picture post", or maybe a link to it. it'd make it easier to find stuff without having to look for it in the thread.

Well, all the pictures are already in the top post, so I'm confused by what you mean there. As for the downloads, I'm not planning to update those sheets every time I change the cards. It took me quite a while to make those PDFs. I only put them together because Nic wanted them. If I put them in the OP, they'd become outdated pretty quickly. If I finalize the set and get a 100% assurance that it will never be published, I'll make the downloads more accessible.

third: i would love to play with these, but but how would go about getting them to be physical cards? I mean, obviously you can print them, but having cards made out of paper isn't exactly ideal. you could glue them onto blanks, but i don't have nearly enough blanks. you can buy them here:
http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/dominion-blank-cards
but that's ridiculously overpriced. i also don't use sleeves, because i play mostly online. my brother once made a cube of mtg cards by printing and glueing them onto a bunch of basic lands, but that doesn't really work here; there aren't any cards left to spare in dominion. i guess you could buy a copy of dark ages and use all of the cards ans pseudo-blanks, but that doesn't seem like a very elegant way. should i just start using sleeves?

Unfortunately, the only way I know to proxy up cards is with sleeves. If you want to play with the cards, you'll probably have to sleeve your entire Dominion set. I think that's worth doing in general, though.

Thanar is correct about buying sets to use for sleeved custom cards. Blanks are a waste of money. The most cost-effective way to do this is to buy a couple of Dominion: Base Cards boxes. They're $12 apiece on Amazon for 250 cards each. Then you can use your old Coppers, Provinces, etc. as fan cards. And you get nice, new base cards with art in the bargain! It's win-win. This solution doesn't give you blue-backed randomizers, though. If you need those, Hinterlands is your most cost-effective option.

If you don't already own Seaside, buy that. You can use Embargo tokens for Trade tokens and upside-down mats for Investment.
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Polk5440

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #252 on: February 11, 2014, 01:18:31 pm »
0

If you don't have sleeves, you can play with the cards one at a time using the blanks. Just have a printout of what the blanks are for that game. If you want to play with two or more fan cards at a time, sleeves are the best way to go.
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #253 on: February 11, 2014, 01:32:36 pm »
0

Quote
As for the downloads, I'm not planning to update those sheets every time I change the cards. It took me quite a while to make those PDFs. I only put them together because Nic wanted them. If I put them in the OP, they'd become outdated pretty quickly. If I finalize the set and get a 100% assurance that it will never be published, I'll make the downloads more accessible.
i see. makes sense.

Quote
Unfortunately, the only way I know to proxy up cards is with sleeves. If you want to play with the cards, you'll probably have to sleeve your entire Dominion set. I think that's worth doing in general, though.

Thanar is correct about buying sets to use for sleeved custom cards. Blanks are a waste of money. The most cost-effective way to do this is to buy a couple of Dominion: Base Cards boxes. They're $12 apiece on Amazon for 250 cards each. Then you can use your old Coppers, Provinces, etc. as fan cards. And you get nice, new base cards with art in the bargain! It's win-win. This solution doesn't give you blue-backed randomizers, though. If you need those, Hinterlands is your most cost-effective option.

If you don't already own Seaside, buy that. You can use Embargo tokens for Trade tokens and upside-down mats for Investment.

thanks, i own all extensions so 'll probably go with ordering two of the base boxes.

Quote from: Polk5440
If you don't have sleeves, you can play with the cards one at a time using the blanks. Just have a printout of what the blanks are for that game.
I've done that with promos previously, but it's not the same... is misses the certain feeling

eHalcyon

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #254 on: February 11, 2014, 04:09:40 pm »
+1

If you don't have sleeves, you can play with the cards one at a time using the blanks. Just have a printout of what the blanks are for that game. If you want to play with two or more fan cards at a time, sleeves are the best way to go.

You can also do this with non-blank cards.  "Scout is standing in for Craftsman in this game!"  You just need to pay attention so you don't forget it.
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Polk5440

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #255 on: February 11, 2014, 05:30:19 pm »
0

If you don't have sleeves, you can play with the cards one at a time using the blanks. Just have a printout of what the blanks are for that game. If you want to play with two or more fan cards at a time, sleeves are the best way to go.

You can also do this with non-blank cards.  "Scout is standing in for Craftsman in this game!"  You just need to pay attention so you don't forget it.

I tried this once. Never again -- I evidently can't pay attention.
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GeoLib

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #256 on: February 11, 2014, 05:32:06 pm »
+4

If you don't have sleeves, you can play with the cards one at a time using the blanks. Just have a printout of what the blanks are for that game. If you want to play with two or more fan cards at a time, sleeves are the best way to go.

You can also do this with non-blank cards.  "Scout is standing in for Craftsman in this game!"  You just need to pay attention so you don't forget it.

That's the best scout strategy I've seen!
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #257 on: February 11, 2014, 05:37:31 pm »
+1

If you don't have sleeves, you can play with the cards one at a time using the blanks. Just have a printout of what the blanks are for that game. If you want to play with two or more fan cards at a time, sleeves are the best way to go.

You can also do this with non-blank cards.  "Scout is standing in for Craftsman in this game!"  You just need to pay attention so you don't forget it.

I tried this once. Never again -- I evidently can't pay attention.

Dude, if Scouts could gain you more Scouts, that'd be ridiculously broken.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #258 on: February 28, 2014, 03:27:38 pm »
+4


I played this board with two other players last night. Overall it went quite well. It was a fun game where every single Kingdom card was gained at least once.

It was the very first game with Guide. Two of the players (including me) bought Guides and at different points in the game each of us used 2 tokens in order to play a single Guide 3 times. That was fun. The player who didn't buy Guide had a small criticism that it was hard to track what was going on when we played Guide and that the card was complex in a non-intuitive way, but admitted that he would probably have felt differently if he had been playing them himself. Overall I'm happy with the card's debut.

Jubilee was quite a popular buy, which is a feat considering Fool's Gold is on the board (although Fool's Gold is less dominant in 3-player games). It was especially nice to Develop a $3-cost Domain into a Jubilee and a Committee. I'm no longer as concerned that the card is a dud. It was well-liked, although I'm sure that Jubilee and Guide giving each other a boost is significant.

I didn't get much feedback on Barrister, although I enjoyed playing with it since I ended up with all 3 Domains in my final deck. Late game I developed an Estate into a Barrister on my deck. When I played it, I happened to trash one opponent's Domain and then pick up all 3 from the trash (the other 2 being there from early-game Develop plays). One of my opponents attempted to steal some back, but to no avail.

Committee still appears to work fine at $4. One player went strongly for Committees and Convocations, eventually getting quite a slim deck and gaining a bunch of good cards. He revealed Province and Gold once, gaining a Gold. It was a popular card.

One of the playtesters didn't like Convocation because it seemed so much better than Lab at $5. This also applies to Hunting Party, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate criticism. He got quite lucky and almost always pulled 3 cards with each Convocation play, but he still has a point. He suggested replacing +1 Action with +1 Buy. I'm considering this. I would of course raise the number of revealed cards (probably to 5) if I were to try it. On one hand, it would fit the terminal-card-draw slot I've been trying to fill. On the other hand, it seems like a particularly bad combo with Mill Town, which is the main reason I really want a Smithy variant in the set. Also, I'm not sure I really want terminal draw that specifically pulls an Action into your hand. Maybe that wouldn't be so bad, I don't know. I'll probably playtest it more as-is, but I'm open to changing or scrapping it. It's very off-theme.

It was a very close game. I barely won with a final score of 33-32-31. Glad I scraped together all three Domains!

EDIT: Oh, also I played a 3-player game with Recruiter on Wednesday. Unfortunately I don't remember the exact setup.


One of the players in that game loves nasty Attack cards and just loaded up on these. I admit, I was seriously considering just not playing my Barrister or Bureaucrat in order to not enable his ridiculous Recruiter deck. All the Curses got handed out and he won in a landslide. So the fear that Recruiter's Reaction effect is so strong that it might keep you from buying other Attack cards is definitely founded. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean I'm going to change or scrap it yet. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, unlike the theoretical Revenge reaction that hurts the attacker, people not buying other Attack cards doesn't stop you from wanting to buy Recruiter. Second, the fact that the person who went strongly for cursing won the game is not unique to Recruiter. If I and the other player had bought more Recruiters to fight back, we would have stood a better chance. Third, I don't think Recruiter would really keep you from buying the more powerful Attack cards, like Witch. This board only had Barrister and Bureaucrat for other Attack cards.

I'm a bit concerned that all 10 Recruiters got bought. Now this is the same guy who will run out the Thief pile whenever possible, so maybe I'm reading too much into it. Still, it could potentially be problematic if it always happens. I think chances are good that it's going to need a nerf of some sort, but I'll test it a bit more as-is.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 12:09:41 am by LastFootnote »
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manthos88

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #259 on: March 04, 2014, 01:07:07 pm »
+1

Hey... nice new cards you got there! I haven't been here for some time now. I like Guide. I remember you once talked about a card with a mechanism that will play itself again. Seems you made it happen. Nice!

I also like Recruiter! It's good you added another card that can gain Conscripts. But, i fear, as you do as well, it might be too strong. On first glimpse, it looks it is. I mean, if i have 3-4 of these in my hand, i can militia you and also give you 2-3 Curses if you get that Witch to lay a Curse on me... :D
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Polk5440

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #260 on: March 09, 2014, 11:20:19 am »
+1

LastFootnote, I like a lot of the cards in the set, but I am still not sold on some of uses of the trade tokens. Maybe it's my aversion to having more tokens and mats flying around, but to justify having them around, the tokens must be the easiest way to implement the idea of the card.

For example, consider:

Simple Jubilee
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Actions. +$2.
You may play this card again immediately. If you do, trash it. 

Much simpler. Easy to understand. No tokens. I think Jubilee has the Merchant Guild problem. There are a few cases where amassing coin tokens via Mercant Guild can be interesting and playing them all at once, but the much simpler Bridge mechanic works just as well most of the time. Sometimes getting coin tokens elsewhere doesn't save the card, either. Same with Jubilee. It's not sufficiently enhanced by trade tokens even if there are other ways to get the tokens.

The trade tokens are at their best when spending them like a limited stimulate resource that temporarily beefs up a card (and it's the easiest way to implement that temporary bonus).

-----


Also, I think there may be too many remodel variants (Redistrict, Craftsman, Exchange). The trade token remodel variants are less interesting now because of Butcher. I would consider replacing Craftsman or Exchange. I really like Redistrict.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #261 on: March 09, 2014, 12:16:31 pm »
+2

LastFootnote, I like a lot of the cards in the set, but I am still not sold on some of uses of the trade tokens. Maybe it's my aversion to having more tokens and mats flying around, but to justify having them around, the tokens must be the easiest way to implement the idea of the card.

For example, consider:

Simple Jubilee
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Actions. +$2.
You may play this card again immediately. If you do, trash it. 

Much simpler. Easy to understand. No tokens. I think Jubilee has the Merchant Guild problem. There are a few cases where amassing coin tokens via Mercant Guild can be interesting and playing them all at once, but the much simpler Bridge mechanic works just as well most of the time. Sometimes getting coin tokens elsewhere doesn't save the card, either. Same with Jubilee. It's not sufficiently enhanced by trade tokens even if there are other ways to get the tokens.

The trade tokens are at their best when spending them like a limited stimulate resource that temporarily beefs up a card (and it's the easiest way to implement that temporary bonus).

Well, I appreciate the idea. I agree that if I can implement a card idea without tokens, that's preferable. Fund is such a card. As GendoIkari pointed out, I could use Trade tokens to implement Fund, rather than trashing it and replacing it with Silver. But I think it's simpler and more compelling as-is.

Jubilee, though, is not such a card. "Simple Jubilee" is not even close to Jubilee in functionality, and moreover it has to cost at least $5, being a better Silver in most cases. The initial concept behind Jubilee was "two-shot Silver". I decided to give it +2 Actions (instead of +1 Action or making it a Treasure) as a way to spice up the card and make you want it in more situations. Simple Jubilee is "Silver you can trash to play it again". I already have that card. It's Fund.

So while I appreciate the fact that many consider tokens clunky, I do think they're the simplest way to implement all the Enterprise cards that currently use them. Some people actually like tokens, for what that's worth.

Side Note: I'm strongly considering changing Jubilee so that it returns itself to the Supply rather than trashing itself. That way you can use them as the only village in your deck, but you have to keep buying them back.

Also, I think there may be too many remodel variants (Redistrict, Craftsman, Exchange). The trade token remodel variants are less interesting now because of Butcher. I would consider replacing Craftsman or Exchange. I really like Redistrict.

Well, one counterpoint that I've already made is that Guilds only has 13 cards and 3 of them are remodels (Butcher, Stonemason, Taxman). Also, Craftsman isn't a Remodel variant at all. It's a Workshop variant. I sort of consider Refurbish to be a Remodel variant, but not completely.

Other than being a remodel variant that uses tokens in some way, I'd say that Exchange and Butcher are pretty much completely different. Craftsman and Butcher are more similar, being cards that you can spend more tokens on to get more expensive cards. But as I mentioned earlier in the thread, my goal is to make them as different as possible, and I think I've succeeded. Butcher is terminal; Craftsman is not. Butcher costs $5; Craftsman costs $4. Butcher trashes a card; Craftsman does not. In the end, the core concept behind Butcher is "flexible Remodel". The concept behind Craftsman is "Workshop you can build up by combining them". That's why it has +1 Action, so you can play two and get $5 cards without using all your terminal Actions up on Craftsmen themselves.
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clloxin

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #262 on: March 09, 2014, 02:06:53 pm »
+1

I find it funny that people dislike trade tokens. I find them the most genius way to use semi one-shots. Also, great job on the expansion. It is the most interesting and clean expansion, and also actually feels like it could be real.
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #263 on: March 09, 2014, 05:44:46 pm »
+1

please don't replace trade tokens...

Nik

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #264 on: March 09, 2014, 08:48:18 pm »
+1

If you need 25 cards, and some might be replaced, may I suggest some cards?:

Cardinal: $4
+1 card +1 action. Gain a trade token. Each other player discards a Trade token.
-------
Court: $3
+1 card +1 buy. Count your Trade tokens. +1 coin per Trade token. Spend a Trade token. If you do, +2 coins.
-------
Camp: $4
+2 coins. Gain a Trade token. When another player plays an Attack card, reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain a Trade token.
-------
Trader: $4
Spend two Trade tokens. If you do, gain a card costing up to $5. You may overpay for this card. For each $1 you overpay, take a Trade token.
-------
Road: $5
+1 card +1 action. Trash a card from your hand costing $5 or more other then a Road. If you do, +3 coins.
-------
Bakery: $5
Trash this card. If you do, choose one: +2 coins on this turn and the next; take two Trade tokens; or +2 cards +1 action.
-------
Seamstress: $4
+1 card +1 action. Each other player gives you a Trade token; or reveals that they have no Trade tokens.
-------
Circus: $5
Trash this card and spend a Trade token. If you do, +3 coins +1 buy.
-------
Coat or Arms: $5.
$1. You may spend a Trade token. If you do, each Treasure in your hand produces +1 this turn and +1 buy. When you gain this, gain a Trade token.
-------
Museum: $3
Worth 2VP for every unspent Trade tokens at the end of the game.
-------
Theater: $4.
+2 cards +1. When you gain this, gain a Trade token.

Do you like them?


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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #265 on: March 09, 2014, 10:48:07 pm »
+2

Cardinal: $4
+1 card +1 action. Gain a trade token. Each other player discards a Trade token.
-----
Court: $3
+1 card +1 buy. Count your Trade tokens. +1 coin per Trade token. Spend a Trade token. If you do, +2 coins.
-------
Camp: $4
+2 coins. Gain a Trade token. When another player plays an Attack card, reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain a Trade token.
-------
Trader: $4
Spend two Trade tokens. If you do, gain a card costing up to $5. You may overpay for this card. For each $1 you overpay, take a Trade token.
-------
Road: $5
+1 card +1 action. Trash a card from your hand costing $5 or more other then a Road. If you do, +3 coins.
-------
Bakery: $5
Trash this card. If you do, choose one: +2 coins on this turn and the next; take two Trade tokens; or +2 cards +1 action.
-------
Seamstress: $4
+1 card +1 action. Each other player gives you a Trade token; or reveals that they have no Trade tokens.
-------
Circus: $5
Trash this card and spend a Trade token. If you do, +3 coins +1 buy.
-------
Coat or Arms: $5.
$1. You may spend a Trade token. If you do, each Treasure in your hand produces +1 this turn and +1 buy. When you gain this, gain a Trade token.
-------
Museum: $3
Worth 2VP for every unspent Trade tokens at the end of the game.
-------
Theater: $4.
+2 cards +1. When you gain this, gain a Trade token.
Most of these are completely useless in kingdoms without other trade token cards.
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Archetype

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #266 on: March 10, 2014, 12:01:01 am »
+1

Cardinal: $4
+1 card +1 action. Gain a trade token. Each other player discards a Trade token.
-----
Court: $3
+1 card +1 buy. Count your Trade tokens. +1 coin per Trade token. Spend a Trade token. If you do, +2 coins.
-------
Camp: $4
+2 coins. Gain a Trade token. When another player plays an Attack card, reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain a Trade token.
-------
Trader: $4
Spend two Trade tokens. If you do, gain a card costing up to $5. You may overpay for this card. For each $1 you overpay, take a Trade token.
-------
Road: $5
+1 card +1 action. Trash a card from your hand costing $5 or more other then a Road. If you do, +3 coins.
-------
Bakery: $5
Trash this card. If you do, choose one: +2 coins on this turn and the next; take two Trade tokens; or +2 cards +1 action.
-------
Seamstress: $4
+1 card +1 action. Each other player gives you a Trade token; or reveals that they have no Trade tokens.
-------
Circus: $5
Trash this card and spend a Trade token. If you do, +3 coins +1 buy.
-------
Coat or Arms: $5.
$1. You may spend a Trade token. If you do, each Treasure in your hand produces +1 this turn and +1 buy. When you gain this, gain a Trade token.
-------
Museum: $3
Worth 2VP for every unspent Trade tokens at the end of the game.
-------
Theater: $4.
+2 cards +1. When you gain this, gain a Trade token.
Most of these are completely useless in kingdoms without other trade token cards.

To add on to what Awaclus said, Trade Tokens aren't another type of currency. They act as a way to turn 1-shot cards into 2-shots or more.  The ability to take a Trade Token intended for one card and use it on another is just a cool bonus - not the primary effect. The way that you seem to be interpreting them is that they are specifically earned to boost the power of other cards.

Also, awesome set LFN! I don't think I've commented here(?), but I've been following along since the beginning and am very pleased with how its developed. Slick designs with some cool effects. Keep up the good work! :)
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #267 on: March 10, 2014, 01:29:10 pm »
+3

please don't replace trade tokens...

I don't plan to. Polk5440 was just suggesting that there might be a simpler way to implement Jubilee specifically, and that Trade tokens should be reserved for "get one when you gain a card, spend it when you play the card for a bonus" effects. As I outlined, I disagree that Jubilee can be made simpler. Whether or not Jubilee is worth doing in general is another topic, but it's been quite popular in most of our playtests.

If you need 25 cards, and some might be replaced, may I suggest some cards?:

Cardinal: $4
+1 card +1 action. Gain a trade token. Each other player discards a Trade token.
-------
Court: $3
+1 card +1 buy. Count your Trade tokens. +1 coin per Trade token. Spend a Trade token. If you do, +2 coins.
-------
Camp: $4
+2 coins. Gain a Trade token. When another player plays an Attack card, reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain a Trade token.
-------
Trader: $4
Spend two Trade tokens. If you do, gain a card costing up to $5. You may overpay for this card. For each $1 you overpay, take a Trade token.
-------
Road: $5
+1 card +1 action. Trash a card from your hand costing $5 or more other then a Road. If you do, +3 coins.
-------
Bakery: $5
Trash this card. If you do, choose one: +2 coins on this turn and the next; take two Trade tokens; or +2 cards +1 action.
-------
Seamstress: $4
+1 card +1 action. Each other player gives you a Trade token; or reveals that they have no Trade tokens.
-------
Circus: $5
Trash this card and spend a Trade token. If you do, +3 coins +1 buy.
-------
Coat or Arms: $5.
$1. You may spend a Trade token. If you do, each Treasure in your hand produces +1 this turn and +1 buy. When you gain this, gain a Trade token.
-------
Museum: $3
Worth 2VP for every unspent Trade tokens at the end of the game.
-------
Theater: $4.
+2 cards +1. When you gain this, gain a Trade token.

Do you like them?

While I appreciate the thought, Awaclus and Archetype have nailed down the problem with most of your cards. Any Trade token card may be the only one in a given game, so each one must both give you Trade tokens and give you a use for them. But that doesn't necessarily mean that your post is devoid of good ideas; some of these effects could be made into cool cards. I'll try to talk about mechanics, rather than specific cards.

Attack that makes players lose Trade tokens: Cardinal and Seamstress do this. The problem here is that other players can easily avoid the attack by not buying Trade token cards. This in turn means that these Attack cards themselves won't get bought. So it would likely result in a lot of dead cards on the table, which is never ideal.

Play effect that gets better as you accumulate Trade tokens: Court does this. I think it's a mechanic with some potential. The key is that you have to spend at least one Trade token every time you get the effect that counts tokens (which Court does). Otherwise you're eventually going to get ridiculously powerful effects. (I suppose Pirate Ship does this, but still.) Also, such a card almost has to be able to get Trade tokens when played. If you only get them when you gain the cards, eventually they dwindle down to uselessness, at which point you might as well trash those cards. Craftsman kind of already does this, but there you have to actually spend more tokens to get the larger effect. I think there may be a good card somewhere in this space of 'better when you have more tokens'.

Victory card that counts Trade tokens: Museum does this. This concept I'm not so hot on. If it's the only Trade token card in the game and you get tokens when you gain it, it basically counts itself. Donald tried that and it eventually turned into Duke. It might be possible that instead of gaining tokens when you gain the Victory card, it's also an Action or Reaction that gains tokens, but I don't love that either. For one thing, VP tokens (from Prosperity) do this more elegantly. For another, I generally want players to spend their Trade tokens to get cool effects. When one card says, "Hoard all your tokens," it works against all the other Trade token cards on the board.

Reaction that makes Trade tokens: Camp does this. This could work if stapled to an Action card that uses the tokens. If Recruiter doesn't work out, I may try something like this.

Trash a card costing at least $X for a big benefit: Road does this. I don't think the threshold (saying "a card costing at least $5") is a great idea. Cards that trash a card for a scaling benefit depending on the cost of the card (Trader [from Hinterlands], Bishop, Apprentice, Salvager, etc.) are nice because you can use them on Estates early on and then you can choose to use them on expensive cards later for big effects. Something about having to trash a really expensive card to get any sort of benefit turns me off. It seems like it wouldn't be a popular buy.

Expensive one-shot that gives one of several powerful options: Bakery does this. Generally, if I'm going to have a choose-one ability, I want the choices to be related in some way, e.g. Gambler. I feel cards that are just a bunch of different options as their core ability is Intrigue's schtick, although it's fine to do them elsewhere (Count from Dark Ages). This isn't necessarily out of the question, but I don't find it super compelling.

Those are the big ones. Trader is "spend a few tokens to gain a $5 card", which Craftsman already covers. Circus is "trash a card and spend a Trade token for an effect", which is redundant once you factor in that the card needs to also gain tokens. On any board without other Trade token cards, it's basically just a normal one-shot. Coat of Arms's role is "spend a token for extra Coins and a Buy", which I feel Fund sufficiently fills. Once you factor in that a card needs to both spend and use tokens, Theater doesn't really have a concept at all.

That's it! I may very well try a card like Court or Camp, so I appreciate you taking the time to suggest these ideas.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 01:31:06 pm by LastFootnote »
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Polk5440

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #268 on: March 12, 2014, 02:07:41 pm »
+1

You are correct. I have been misreading Jubilee. I couldn't understand why it was priced at only $2.

You are correct that it needs the trade token, unless you want to make it a one-shot duration. But that's not any simpler.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #269 on: March 12, 2014, 03:02:10 pm »
+1

I'm considering changing the wording of General to reduce confusion with Gambler and Vendor and to make it work with Conscripts (and Jubilee if I change that to return to the Supply).

Quote
General
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an Action card from your hand twice; when you would trash that card or otherwise remove it from play during your Action phase, don't. When you discard that card from play, put it on top of your deck.

So you still save your one-shots from getting trashed, but you can only play them twice per turn. It uses a new and perhaps imprecise phrasing, though. I'm wondering if there are interactions that I'm not considering.

True One-Shots
• Island sets aside two other cards onto your Island mat but does not itself get set aside. It gets topdecked during Clean-up.
• Feast, Embargo, Pillage, Conscripts, and Investment all do their thing twice and then get topdecked during Clean-up.
• Madman and Treasure Map don't do their thing at all because they don't get returned to their pile or trashed, but they still get topdecked during Clean-up.

Optional One-Shots
• Jubilee, Gambler, and Vendor can each do their bonus ability twice because those abilities are not contingent on trashing them.
• Mining Village and Redistrict can't do their bonus abilities at all because those abilities are contingent on trashing them.

These outcomes are all acceptable to me. I'm sure there are some card interactions I'm missing, though.

EDIT: Other advantages to this wording.

• It's cute thematically that General prevents Conscripts from "fleeing".
• It makes tracking WAY easier than even Throne Room, since the cards that General plays always stay in play until Clean-up.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 10:12:55 am by LastFootnote »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #270 on: March 13, 2014, 05:48:16 am »
+1

I really don't like the "don't" wording, but I think there was a topic where Donald X approved that above "you can't". Good Guy General protects the Mining Village from the player, bails out the Gambler and keeps the Jubilee going.

In fact with this the card's perfect as halfway between a Throne Room and a King's Court - you get it twice now, and once next turn, no exceptions.

This version won't protect cards from my fan card Cargo, while the old version did. That's of course neither here nor there. I don't think there are any real cards to worry about in the Buy phase.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #271 on: March 13, 2014, 01:30:30 pm »
+1

Whoa, I just realized that using General on Death Cart gives you $10 and saves your Death Cart. Oh, well. I'm not going to kill General just because of one potential mega combo.

New versions of General and Jubilee, plus a mocked up version of Windfall:

« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 11:39:31 pm by LastFootnote »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #272 on: March 14, 2014, 11:29:54 am »
+1

Whoa, I just realized that using General on Death Cart gives you $10 and saves your Death Cart. Oh, well. I'm not going to kill General just because of one potential mega combo.

Then it dies the next turn. Halfway between TR and KC. Although maybe not; you can elect not to play it, or next hand may have an action you want to trash. You also avoid the overshoot (for when you lack +buys). In fact General is better than KC in quite a few situations, but it's not going to make megaturns as often - I think it's probably fine at $5.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #273 on: March 14, 2014, 11:41:59 am »
0

Whoa, I just realized that using General on Death Cart gives you $10 and saves your Death Cart. Oh, well. I'm not going to kill General just because of one potential mega combo.

Then it dies the next turn. Halfway between TR and KC. Although maybe not; you can elect not to play it, or next hand may have an action you want to trash. You also avoid the overshoot (for when you lack +buys). In fact General is better than KC in quite a few situations, but it's not going to make megaturns as often - I think it's probably fine at $5.

But you could easily have a General in your next hand, too. There's no reason you can't keep the Death Cart train going indefinitely with a few Generals. You can even General a General, which plays a Death Cart. Then you topdeck a General and a Death Cart.

I'm not saying it needs a fix. Just pointing out that you could easily play a one-shot more than three times using Generals (though not in a single turn).
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KingZog3

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #274 on: March 14, 2014, 11:54:42 am »
+1

Whoa, I just realized that using General on Death Cart gives you $10 and saves your Death Cart. Oh, well. I'm not going to kill General just because of one potential mega combo.

Then it dies the next turn. Halfway between TR and KC. Although maybe not; you can elect not to play it, or next hand may have an action you want to trash. You also avoid the overshoot (for when you lack +buys). In fact General is better than KC in quite a few situations, but it's not going to make megaturns as often - I think it's probably fine at $5.

But you could easily have a General in your next hand, too. There's no reason you can't keep the Death Cart train going indefinitely with a few Generals. You can even General a General, which plays a Death Cart. Then you topdeck a General and a Death Cart.

I'm not saying it needs a fix. Just pointing out that you could easily play a one-shot more than three times using Generals (though not in a single turn).

You still get 2 Ruins that junk your deck with DC. Also Trader/Feodum exists. This doesn't sound as crazy because it needs an engine to do this repeatedly. Otherwise you're depending on luck to line up a $5 and $4 card with extra junk around in your deck.
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