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Author Topic: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)  (Read 163187 times)

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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2012, 02:17:28 am »
+1

OK, I've updated Clerk and Cathedral and reworded Mill Town. Hi-res versions of the cards can be found here.
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Thanar

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2012, 07:09:56 am »
+1

Many thanks for your work on this set! I'll be printing it out and trying it this weekend.

As I was downloading the images, I did notice that the title text "Gambler" on the gambler.png images has some aliasing (jaggies), unlike all of the other cards, which are very smooth. This is the case with both the low and hi-res versions of that card. I thought I'd let you know in case you wanted to fix it.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2012, 09:59:10 am »
+1

Many thanks for your work on this set! I'll be printing it out and trying it this weekend.

As I was downloading the images, I did notice that the title text "Gambler" on the gambler.png images has some aliasing (jaggies), unlike all of the other cards, which are very smooth. This is the case with both the low and hi-res versions of that card. I thought I'd let you know in case you wanted to fix it.

Unfortunately, those jaggies were there even before I transformed the image into the .PNG format. The 'G' in that font at that size just looks like that, even as you type it in. I noticed it myself when I created the card. Thanks for the attention to detail, though!

Anyhow, if you test out the cards, please let me know how they work out.

EDIT: I just changed Conscripts, partly for set-cohesiveness reasons and partly for simplicity. It no longer gains the Curse into your opponents' hands.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 04:17:47 pm by LastFootnote »
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Thanar

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2012, 01:02:41 am »
+2

I playtested all the cards in Dominion:Enterprise tonight with a couple of friends who are familiar with Dominion and several expansions, but had never seen this fan variant.

We played three games, using 7 cards from Enterprise in each game, along with a couple of standard cards, like Village, Remodel, Steward, and Masquerade, and one card from another fan variant, Dominion: Tributary (Dignitary and Hero).

Every game was fun and every game was fairly close. And almost every card was used, and we did work out some interesting combinations of cards as well.

In our first game, the initial buys centered around Mercenary which was a popular buy. But the standout card was Cathedral, which made for a rather quick game, though one with interesting decisions about which cards to put back.

Also in that game, Monopoly also allowed one player to get an early gold which helped him to a victory. I do think that Monopoly can lead to some high variance depending on when it is bought. It is easier to predict things early on, but you might draw it right after a reshuffle when it's harder to guess the cards coming up. We quickly discovered that it did synergize well with Mercenary. Once I left a better card on top of the deck with Mercenary so that the Monopoly that immediately followed was guaranteed to hit.

Aqueduct was also used mostly in an attempt to catch up from being behind in victory points near the end of the game. It definitely helped, but didn't turn the tide.

Clerk didn't seem to be too effective a reaction, at least with the attacks that we were using (from this expansion). The ability to trash one or two cards is not always that helpful when the attack itself (e.g. Tax Collector) is going to trash a card worth 2 or more. It generally left a pretty worthless hand at the end.

Gambler was another card that didn't seem to have much impact on the game. Bought early on, it generally led to trashing a card or two before getting trashed itself when it ran into something of value. It didn't seem very worth buying later in the game. So it was probably the most "meh" card of the entire set.

In the second and third games we removed Cathedral, which allowed Inventor to really shine. Careful use of the card allowed for some very finesse endgames (e.g. Platinums trashed for the benefit of Colonies to clinch a win).

Surveyor seemed interesting, but the one time I bought it and used it it matched up with my hand full of Silver, instead of my hand with the Platinum, but I triggered it anyway just to get it out of my deck... Another player bought one and used it three times without using the self-trash effect. So, it didn't do much for us, but perhaps we didn't really try to make it work...

The Barracks and Conscripts combo was used to good effect in the second game, paired with the Tax Collector to ensure that attack got played many times, leading to my only victory of the night. We were using the Hero card that game, which happens to allow you to gain a prize (from Cornucopia) if you have two Curse cards in hand when you play it! So this actually made me avoid playing the second Conscript in one situation since it potentially could set up the Hero perfectly with gaining a curse in hand. So the change you just made to Conscript to make it a regular gain seems wise.

Mill Town seemed to get used as an OK village variant, since the discard of a card often didn't cause much harm. In our games it rarely triggered the gain of a card, probably because we weren't buying it primarily for that ability and were often trashing Copper.

Finally, Fund was used a couple of times, mostly for the ability to trash it to get a Province with 7 coin, rather than making much use of the extra buy.

After all of that, I don't have any specific suggestions for improvement at the moment, but I might come up with some after a bit more playtesting.

By the end of the night, everyone agreed that the set was interesting, entertaining, and definitely worth playing with again. Kudos to LastFootnote for designing it.

Thanar
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2012, 01:51:51 pm »
+1

Hey, thanks a lot for testing these out! I usually play with 4 or 5 Enterprise cards at a time, but it's cool to hear that games with 7 of the cards were still fun.

In our first game, the initial buys centered around Mercenary which was a popular buy. But the standout card was Cathedral, which made for a rather quick game, though one with interesting decisions about which cards to put back.

Hmm, it's interesting to hear that Cathedral was so powerful. I'll have to do some more playtesting and see if the card needs to be toned down. Did you use the version that gave one Cathedral token when gaining it, or the version that gained two? Did the trashing even get used much?

Quote
Also in that game, Monopoly also allowed one player to get an early gold which helped him to a victory. I do think that Monopoly can lead to some high variance depending on when it is bought. It is easier to predict things early on, but you might draw it right after a reshuffle when it's harder to guess the cards coming up. We quickly discovered that it did synergize well with Mercenary. Once I left a better card on top of the deck with Mercenary so that the Monopoly that immediately followed was guaranteed to hit.

Monopoly is one of the cards in the set that I'm least happy with. I like the card concept, but I can't really decide how to balance it. Did it ever not gain a Gold when played?

Quote
Clerk didn't seem to be too effective a reaction, at least with the attacks that we were using (from this expansion). The ability to trash one or two cards is not always that helpful when the attack itself (e.g. Tax Collector) is going to trash a card worth 2 or more. It generally left a pretty worthless hand at the end.

Clerk is the other card I'm not yet happy with. Mostly I need a better action effect. As for the reaction piece and its use against Tax Collector, the idea was that Clerk would allow you to trash a Copper or Curse, after which Tax Collector would be unable to hurt you. Did you play that Tax Collector only hit if the victim had 5 or more cards in hand?

In general, though, Clerk is meant to work best against pure discard attacks like Militia and Goons.

Quote
Gambler was another card that didn't seem to have much impact on the game. Bought early on, it generally led to trashing a card or two before getting trashed itself when it ran into something of value. It didn't seem very worth buying later in the game. So it was probably the most "meh" card of the entire set.

Yeah, there's no point to buying Gambler after the first few turns. It's definitely an early game card.

Quote
In the second and third games we removed Cathedral, which allowed Inventor to really shine. Careful use of the card allowed for some very finesse endgames (e.g. Platinums trashed for the benefit of Colonies to clinch a win).

Sounds good. Hopefully it's not too powerful.

Quote
Surveyor seemed interesting, but the one time I bought it and used it it matched up with my hand full of Silver, instead of my hand with the Platinum, but I triggered it anyway just to get it out of my deck... Another player bought one and used it three times without using the self-trash effect. So, it didn't do much for us, but perhaps we didn't really try to make it work...

Yeah, sounds like you got unlucky with it. Maybe it's underpowered as is, though. I'll have to test it some more.

Quote
The Barracks and Conscripts combo was used to good effect in the second game, paired with the Tax Collector to ensure that attack got played many times, leading to my only victory of the night. We were using the Hero card that game, which happens to allow you to gain a prize (from Cornucopia) if you have two Curse cards in hand when you play it! So this actually made me avoid playing the second Conscript in one situation since it potentially could set up the Hero perfectly with gaining a curse in hand. So the change you just made to Conscript to make it a regular gain seems wise.

Yeah, I'm glad I changed Conscripts. It just synergized too well with Tax Collector and simpler card wordings are usually better.

Thanks a lot for the feedback!
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Thanar

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2012, 04:06:09 pm »
+1

Hmm, it's interesting to hear that Cathedral was so powerful. I'll have to do some more playtesting and see if the card needs to be toned down. Did you use the version that gave one Cathedral token when gaining it, or the version that gained two? Did the trashing even get used much?

We used the version that gave one Cathedral token when gaining it, and the trashing was definitely used in every case. I don't think the card is too powerful. I think it is just a solid card and some of the other cards might not be powerful enough. It definitely works well with a money-based strategy, similar to how Courtyard works well with money.

I was trying to figure out an easy way to allow the purchasing of additional Cathedral tokens for more money when you buy the Cathedral (i.e. spend another coin (or two?) when purchasing the Cathedral to get another token with it). It could make for an interesting choice between getting a Gold at 6 or getting a Cathedral with 2 trash tokens... Might be worth trying.

Quote
Monopoly is one of the cards in the set that I'm least happy with. I like the card concept, but I can't really decide how to balance it. Did it ever not gain a Gold when played?

I failed to gain a Gold with it when I played it. I think that happened at least one other time. The problem is that if you fail to get a gold with it, it is a significant setback, since it is a one-shot card that costs four and is then gone. To me it was more of a gamble than Gambler (bigger gain when you succeed, bigger loss when you fail). Perhaps make the self-trashing conditional on guessing correctly?

We also didn't think that it lived up to its name, since trashing one card from the supply doesn't significantly affect the supply. Also, it is rare that any one player would buy very many of them, since its main use is to get a Gold earlier on in the game and its utility decreases later on (plus it can be a bit harder to guess the Kingdom card later on).

You could change the text below the line to read "When you buy this or trash this..." so that you get two opportunities to trash from the supply per Monopoly, rather than one.

Quote
Clerk is the other card I'm not yet happy with. Mostly I need a better action effect. As for the reaction piece and its use against Tax Collector, the idea was that Clerk would allow you to trash a Copper or Curse, after which Tax Collector would be unable to hurt you. Did you play that Tax Collector only hit if the victim had 5 or more cards in hand?

I agree that the action effect of Clerk is not very good/interesting. Perhaps you could also let the person choose to leave one of the three cards on top of the deck? It seems kind of thematic, shuffling papers around on a desk, from the inbox to the outbox...

And now that you mention it, we didn't play the Tax Collector correctly after using the Clerk reaction. I remember still trashing a card for it even though I had already trashed down to fewer that 5 cards with the Clerk.

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Yeah, there's no point to buying Gambler after the first few turns. It's definitely an early game card.

As an early game card, I don't find Gambler to have a stronger effect than, say, Masquerade or other good cost 3 openers that have a bit of trashing. And I think its effect should be stronger than a Masquerade, since you're only going to get to play Gambler a few times before you're "forced" to trash it.

It also doesn't "feel" like a Gambling card, since the only gamble is whether or not it will get trashed. I usually think of gambling in association with a chance to make a lot of money, and getting the silver or other (fairly early-game) buy that I don't want to trash just isn't that big of a reward.

Quote
Hopefully Inventor is not too powerful.

I don't think it is too powerful. Probably similar strength to Cathedral (or a bit less), and it works well with money (like Smithy), but is more helpful near the end of the game, where Cathedral is a bit better earlier on.

Quote
Maybe Surveyor is underpowered as is, though.

To beef Surveyor, how about gaining the card on top of your deck? It seems like it would be fair to get to play it next turn, since you don't get to play it this turn as you have to discard it. You also might want to bump the cost up to 4 with that change since it might compare too favorably to Mint, for instance.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 09:05:53 pm by Thanar »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2012, 08:03:54 pm »
+1

Sorry I didn't respond to this for so long! I got distracted by Legend of Grimrock and only recently got back to updating this set. I actually wrote most of this post weeks ago but didn't actually submit it. The parts that I've just written today are marked with 'UPDATE'.

We used the version that gave one Cathedral token when gaining it, and the trashing was definitely used in every case. I don't think the card is too powerful. I think it is just a solid card and some of the other cards might not be powerful enough. It definitely works well with a money-based strategy, similar to how Courtyard works well with money.

I was trying to figure out an easy way to allow the purchasing of additional Cathedral tokens for more money when you buy the Cathedral (i.e. spend another coin (or two?) when purchasing the Cathedral to get another token with it). It could make for an interesting choice between getting a Gold at 6 or getting a Cathedral with 2 trash tokens... Might be worth trying.

Hmm, I'm not sure I'm too gung-ho about allowing extra tokens for additional cash. I don't want Cathedral to get much more wordy or complex than it already is. It sounds like a good idea for a card in general, though.

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I failed to gain a Gold with it when I played it. I think that happened at least one other time. The problem is that if you fail to get a gold with it, it is a significant setback, since it is a one-shot card that costs four and is then gone. To me it was more of a gamble than Gambler (bigger gain when you succeed, bigger loss when you fail). Perhaps make the self-trashing conditional on guessing correctly?

We also didn't think that it lived up to its name, since trashing one card from the supply doesn't significantly affect the supply. Also, it is rare that any one player would buy very many of them, since its main use is to get a Gold earlier on in the game and its utility decreases later on (plus it can be a bit harder to guess the Kingdom card later on).

You could change the text below the line to read "When you buy this or trash this..." so that you get two opportunities to trash from the supply per Monopoly, rather than one.

I really love these ideas. I think the trashing being conditional on a correct guess is a winner for sure. I also like the 'When you buy or trash this' idea, except if I phrase it that way, you'd be able to trash the entire Monopoly pile when you bought your first Monopoly. I'll try to phrase it another way such that you can trash more than one card per Monopoly bought. Perhaps 'When you buy this or play it', like Noble Brigand. I may give the card a dramatic overhaul.

Quote
I agree that the action effect of Clerk is not very good/interesting. Perhaps you could also let the person choose to leave one of the three cards on top of the deck? It seems kind of thematic, shuffling papers around on a desk, from the inbox to the outbox...

Yeah, I was trying to keep the theme a bit in mind when designing the action portion, more to give me ideas than anything. Although once I find an effect I like, I can easily change the name and art to match.

The real issue is that I basically need the action effect to be interesting, unique, situationally useful, and to fit on two or three lines, because the reaction effect takes up most of the space on the card. That's a pretty tall order.

UPDATE: I've decided that trying to make Clerk a balanced $2 card is too difficult. I've decided to bump its cost and I've thought up a more unique ability for it. Since its cost is now higher, I feel better about changing the reaction to allow an unlimited number of cards to be trashed.

Clerk
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: 4
Gain a Silver. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it on top of your deck.
------------------------------------------------------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, trash any number of cards from your hand.

I'm going to playtest this version. I'll post later with my findings.

Quote
As an early game card, I don't find Gambler to have a stronger effect than, say, Masquerade or other good cost 3 openers that have a bit of trashing. And I think its effect should be stronger than a Masquerade, since you're only going to get to play Gambler a few times before you're "forced" to trash it.

It also doesn't "feel" like a Gambling card, since the only gamble is whether or not it will get trashed. I usually think of gambling in association with a chance to make a lot of money, and getting the silver or other (fairly early-game) buy that I don't want to trash just isn't that big of a reward.

Yeah, I'll admit it's ironic that Gambler is one of the 'safest' cards to buy. Thematically, the idea is that you're giving him stuff from your Kingdom to gamble away. Usually he loses (which is what you want), but eventually he 'wins'.

The big thing that Gambler has over Masquerade is its +1 Action. So it's really more comparable to Lookout, Spice Merchant, or even Loan. So opening Masquerade/Silver is way better than Gambler/Silver, but Gambler/Militia or Gambler/Monument should net you better results.

Quote
To beef Surveyor, how about gaining the card on top of your deck? It seems like it would be fair to get to play it next turn, since you don't get to play it this turn as you have to discard it. You also might want to bump the cost up to 4 with that change since it might compare too favorably to Mint, for instance.

I'd also considered this option. My idea was actually to put the revealed card back onto your deck instead of gaining the new card onto your deck, but they amount to the same thing unless the Supply pile for the card is empty, in which case you probably wouldn't reveal a card anyhow.

UPDATE: Instead of changing how the card works, I've decided to drop Surveyor's cost from $3 to $2. I think it'll be much more palatable at the lower price point. It's the kind of card you'd be happy to pick up with an extra buy and a couple of extra coins.

UPDATE: Also, I've decided to try Fund out at $5 and without the 'discard your hand' bit. Even I was forgetting to discard my hand every time I played it. It'll work a lot differently, since before it specifically prevented mega-turns and now you pretty much need one in order for them to really shine. I'm not a big fan of mega-turn-based decks, but I know some people are, and the card's wording is much simpler this way.
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theory

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2012, 10:49:37 am »
+1

These are amazing cards.  I love them!
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2012, 12:00:01 am »
+2

These are amazing cards.  I love them!

Wow! With that vote of confidence, I'm starting to think this expansion may be close to completion. I'd still like to playtest the cards a bit more, but pretty soon I'll finalize it and post it on BGG for wider consumption.
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aestrivex

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2012, 12:43:58 am »
+1

I like the set.  I really like fund, cathedral, and barracks.  I have a couple of balancing comments.

I'm not sure why aqueduct costs 4 and not 3.  It is not clear to me anyway that the effect of aqueduct is more powerful than tunnel.  Probably this is a very minor point because the number of situations in which you would actually want to buy aqueduct in most games is limited to endgame, and in those situations rarely does the difference between a 3-cost victory card and a 4-cost victory card matter.  However this could come up in the context of a gardens/silk rush, in which case aqueduct is more reasonably costed and much more useful at 3. (unless you argue that its one time effect is so powerful that it automatically merits 4 -- but this strikes me as a weak argument).

Inventor is correctly costed at 5 since it is strictly better than smithy.  That said, it seems a somewhat weak 5.  I realize that you have been twiddling with inventor but I'm not sure it "fits" quite yet.  As you know 5s are the premier level of actions in dominion.  This card is something I would envision buying probably only if a) i need drawing power and there is no other viable alternative in the spread or b) by chance if i hit 5 and there is nothing else that i really want.  Its remodel effect is potentially helpful, but that you can only use it once makes it exclusively an endgame card.  That means that if there are other drawers at 5 I would never buy this thing -- i would take rabble over inventor probably 100% of the time and i think rabble's attack is very weak.

I think barracks could option into a village, but that it is fine as it is.  The exact effect of the option seems very unimportant to balancing it, because the real point of the card is the ability to just play an attack from your deck.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2012, 02:26:11 am »
+1

I'm not sure why aqueduct costs 4 and not 3.  It is not clear to me anyway that the effect of aqueduct is more powerful than tunnel.  Probably this is a very minor point because the number of situations in which you would actually want to buy aqueduct in most games is limited to endgame, and in those situations rarely does the difference between a 3-cost victory card and a 4-cost victory card matter.  However this could come up in the context of a gardens/silk rush, in which case aqueduct is more reasonably costed and much more useful at 3. (unless you argue that its one time effect is so powerful that it automatically merits 4 -- but this strikes me as a weak argument).

Well, the comparison between Tunnel and Aqueduct is misleading. You generally buy Tunnel for one of two things. First, you can buy it in the endgame when you have $3 or $4. At that point, it might as well just be a Victory card worth 2 VP. Even if you happen to use the reaction portion before the game ends, you probably won't be cycling back around to the Gold. Will I pay $3 just for a vanilla Victory card worth 2VP? Of course. It beats buying an Estate.

Second, you can buy it at the start of the game and try to use its reaction as much as possible. That's a fairly big risk. You're buying a card that's going to hurt your economy if you can't get it to fire, when you could have bought a Silver. You get 2 VP to compensate, but you don't see that benefit for a long time and it's rather paltry compared to your potential loss of momentum. So, would I pay $3 for a pure Reaction card that gained me Gold on discard? Given the right helper cards, I definitely would.

It seems like a card that combines these two $3 effects should be worth more than $3. But the fact that you use one portion of the card during the beginning and mid-game and the other only at the end means that the total can cost less than the sum of its parts.

Aqueduct, on the other hand, is almost always an endgame card. If you compare it to Tunnel, you should be comparing it to endgame Tunnel. Endgame Tunnel is 2 VP for $3. Endgame Aqueduct is 2 VP plus a bonus for $4. Seems correct to me.

Quote
Inventor is correctly costed at 5 since it is strictly better than smithy.  That said, it seems a somewhat weak 5.  I realize that you have been twiddling with inventor but I'm not sure it "fits" quite yet.  As you know 5s are the premier level of actions in dominion.  This card is something I would envision buying probably only if a) i need drawing power and there is no other viable alternative in the spread or b) by chance if i hit 5 and there is nothing else that i really want.  Its remodel effect is potentially helpful, but that you can only use it once makes it exclusively an endgame card.  That means that if there are other drawers at 5 I would never buy this thing -- i would take rabble over inventor probably 100% of the time and i think rabble's attack is very weak.

Now that I've improved Clerk and replaced Monopoly with Boycott, Inventor has become the card in this set that I'm least happy with. I agree that as an engine component, it's the worst of the card drawers. I was hoping that its endgame remodeling utility would be enough to justify that. Perhaps I was wrong. It's certainly the card in the set that I find the least interesting and that I'm most willing to change at this point. I'll try to brainstorm some ideas for it.

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I think barracks could option into a village, but that it is fine as it is.  The exact effect of the option seems very unimportant to balancing it, because the real point of the card is the ability to just play an attack from your deck.

Yes. The idea was that if you had other terminal Actions in your hand, you'd choose the Village-like effect. If not, you'd dig for an Attack card. In reality it shows up in your hand with just one other Action a lot of the time, a la Shanty Town. I'm OK with this, at least for now. I'm willing to alter the non-Attack option, but I'd like it not to be too wordy.

Thanks for your feedback!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 02:29:26 am by LastFootnote »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2012, 02:46:37 pm »
+1

Perhaps you could improve Inventor by making it a one-shot Expand instead of Remodel?  That might be too powerful though.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2012, 04:53:40 pm »
+1

Perhaps you could improve Inventor by making it a one-shot Expand instead of Remodel?  That might be too powerful though.

Well, that is certainly an option, although I think I'd rather improve the non-one-shot component of it to make it a more palatable purchase before the endgame. Perhaps I'll end up doing both.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2012, 05:14:15 pm »
+1

OK, here's a new, slightly altered version of Inventor:

Inventor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard one and draw the rest. You may trash this card immediately. If you do, trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
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aestrivex

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2012, 02:40:45 pm »
0

Aqueduct, on the other hand, is almost always an endgame card. If you compare it to Tunnel, you should be comparing it to endgame Tunnel. Endgame Tunnel is 2 VP for $3. Endgame Aqueduct is 2 VP plus a bonus for $4. Seems correct to me.

fair enough.
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aestrivex

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2012, 02:41:40 pm »
0

OK, here's a new, slightly altered version of Inventor:

Inventor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard one and draw the rest. You may trash this card immediately. If you do, trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.

i think this is much better.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2012, 12:00:23 am »
+1

Sorry to necro my own thread, but I'm wrapping up this expansion soon and I'm looking for feedback on a few changes I've made.


The original version of Barracks was:

Barracks
Type: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: +2 Actions; or reveal cards from your deck until you reavel an Attack card, discard the other revealed cards, and play that Attack card.

When you gain this, gain a Conscripts card (from the Conscripts pile).

One issue with this version was that the +2 Actions was pretty much never useful. A village that doesn't draw is pretty bad in general, but in a game with Curses being thrown around (a.k.a. most games with Barracks), it's nigh useless. Also, in games with no other Attack cards, you had to buy a crappy Barracks for each Conscripts. That's one useless card for you for each round of Curses you gave to your opponents. It's almost never worth it.

So here's the new version, which keeps the core mechanics the same while dramatically changing how it plays.

Barracks
Type: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Choose one: gain a Conscripts card (from the Conscripts pile); or reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Attack card, put that Attack card into your hand, and discard the other revealed cards.

So far I really like this version. It seems to play quite differently depending on whether there are other Attack cards available or not, but in both cases there are interesting tactical decisions to be made.


After about 4 wildly different iterations of Inventor, I've finally returned to a version very similar to my original idea for the card (which predates this thread).

Inventor
Type: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: +3 Cards; or +1 Action and set this card aside on your Inventor mat.

At the start of your turn, you may remove this from your Inventor mat and put it into your hand.

This may not seem like it could be worth $5, but with smart play, you can really get a lot out of it. Just off the top of my head, here are some uses for it:

1. If you've got a Village/Inventor engine and you know that using your last action to play Inventor will probably result in drawing a bunch of dead Action cards, you can instead save it for the next turn you have a Village in hand.
2. In a big money deck, you can save it if you already have enough coins in hand to buy whatever card you want to buy, especially if you don't want to trigger a reshuffle.
3. If you're building a mega-turn deck, you can buy Inventors and put them all onto your mat as they come up, then at the beginning of your last turn, put them all into your hand, giving you a huge initial handsize increase.
4. With Throne Room, you can use the first play of Inventor to draw 3 cards, then if you drew an Action and/or you have enough money in hand, you can play it again for +1 Action and set it aside.


I'm thinking of nerfing Cathedral. It's a really strong big money enabler as it stands, on par with Wharf. I'm considering having it trash 2 cards from your hand rather than the top 2 cards of your deck when you spend a token. Or maybe that wouldn't even be a nerf, depending on what stage of the game you're at. Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.


Finally, I've replaced all of the dull-brown coin symbols on the cards with more authentic bright yellow versions.

I'm on the home stretch with this set and I want it to be the best it can be. Thanks in advance for any feedback!
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 12:06:12 am by LastFootnote »
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Finalized)
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2012, 11:15:49 am »
+2

Well done.  In Mill Town, you've finally created a card that would make me want a Counting House.
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Finalized)
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2012, 01:10:47 pm »
+1

These are all really good!
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Finalized)
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2012, 04:10:09 pm »
0

Really cool theme and very polished presentation. Good job!

Clerk's reaction seems very very powerful. If you start Chapel, you might trash four cards and buy a Silver over turns 3 and 4. Clerk can get that all accomplished in one hand! And the Silver will be on top of the deck! I'm not saying that's bad necessarily, for a card to scare people away from Sea Hag.

Mill Town and Aqueduct are my kind of cards. I'd love to play with them. Can you imagine this turn 3?
Hand: 2 Coppers, Estate, Mill Town, Watchtower.
Mill Town to draw a Copper. Discard the Estate, reveal 3 Coppers to gain a Mill Town that goes on top of the deck via Watchtower.
Watchtower to draw three cards, maybe Mill Town, Copper, Estate.
Mill Town to draw a Copper. Discard the Estate. Reveal 5 Coppers to gain a nasty 5.

On subsequent turns, Mill Towning to gain an Aqueduct (that you might trash with WT) to make sure what you'll get from WTing is just Mill Towns and Coppers is wild. Very exciting!
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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Finalized)
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2012, 04:39:51 pm »
+1

Hmm. Also, Cathedral big money looks really really really powerful. It's a one-time trasher (that is almost guaranteed to blow 2 Estates) and the best of both worlds in Smithy and Courtyard. A Cathedral - Nothing start is likely super strong.

Can you imagine Cathedral with Mint? Cathedral would likely set up a turn with 6 Coppers to buy Mint. Later on it would throw Mint plus Silver/Gold/etc back on top.
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engineer

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Finalized)
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2012, 04:41:43 pm »
+1

I haven't had a chance to play with any of these cards, but they certainly look great.  I like your designs -- novel, but not unnecessarily complex.

Also, the artwork is incredible.  Where did you get it? Did somebody on the forum make those pictures for you?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Finalized)
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2012, 11:55:33 am »
+1

Well done.  In Mill Town, you've finally created a card that would make me want a Counting House.

These are all really good!

I haven't had a chance to play with any of these cards, but they certainly look great.  I like your designs -- novel, but not unnecessarily complex.

Also, the artwork is incredible.  Where did you get it? Did somebody on the forum make those pictures for you?

Thanks! As for the artwork, I found it mostly through Google searches. Not all of it is in the public domain, but for a fan expansion that won't be published, I figured it wouldn't be a huge deal.

Clerk's reaction seems very very powerful. If you start Chapel, you might trash four cards and buy a Silver over turns 3 and 4. Clerk can get that all accomplished in one hand! And the Silver will be on top of the deck! I'm not saying that's bad necessarily, for a card to scare people away from Sea Hag.

Ah, you have a keen eye. Clerk does make buying Attacks on turns 1 and 2 riskier, but after that it's not really a big factor. The chance that you'll have a Clerk and four cards that you want to trash on turn 5 onwards is pretty slim and it only gets slimmer. So although I was also concerned about it, is hasn't turned out to be a problem in practice.

Hmm. Also, Cathedral big money looks really really really powerful. It's a one-time trasher (that is almost guaranteed to blow 2 Estates) and the best of both worlds in Smithy and Courtyard. A Cathedral - Nothing start is likely super strong.

You are correct, sir, and I'm going to tweak Cathedral again. I'm currently considering something like this:

Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. Return 2 cards to the top of your deck. You may spend a Cathedral token. If you do, trash the top card of your deck and gain a card with the same cost.

When you gain this, take 2 Cathedral tokens.

I'm waiting for the rest of the Dark Ages reveal to make sure there isn't a card that's too similar to this effect. There are several other very minor tweaks I'm going to make to the cards at that time as well. (Gambler looks at your top card rather than revealing it. Conscripts gets returned to the Conscripts pile when played rather than being trashed, etc.)
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Polk5440

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2012, 06:30:28 pm »
+1

I'm a big fan of this one, but Mill Town might run faster if you "reveal 3 or more Coppers from your hand and gain a card costing up to the number of Coppers revealed" since we wouldn't be stuck in the awkward analysis-paralysis of trying not to reveal too many or too few Coppers. Why can't Mill Town gain a card that costs $2, anyway?

Well, the reason that Mill Town can't gain $2 cards is that I was afraid that it would be too easy to run out piles with it. A hand with 3 Mill Towns and 2 Coppers could gain 4 Estates, after all. Now that I think about it, I see no real problem with the gaining being 'up to' the number of Coppers revealed as long as you still have to reveal at least 3 Coppers. I'll change the wording. I think I actually have to reword the card anyway, because as it's currently written, I think you could gain, say, a Familiar by revealing 3 Coppers.

First of all, nice mini-set utilizing the one-shot theme!

One thing I thought of when reading the cards:

I don't think your concern about gaining too many cards with Mill Town and running out piles should be limited to just $2 cards. I think Mill Town would be a go-to card a lot of the time.

For instance, have you played any Mill Town - Tactician - terminal draw games? Goal: get a a deck of 2 Tacticians, 8 Coppers, and as many Mill Towns and Smithies as possible (making sure #Smithies < # Mill Towns at all times). Mill Town's gain and your normal buy should accomplish this very quickly. Then double Tac and reveal 8 Coppers for Provinces. I played this solitaire for two games and exhaused the Province pile on turn 11 in game 1 and turn 10 in game 2. Contested, the Mill Town and Smithy pile would run out extremely quickly. 
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2012, 12:21:05 pm »
+1

I'm a big fan of this one, but Mill Town might run faster if you "reveal 3 or more Coppers from your hand and gain a card costing up to the number of Coppers revealed" since we wouldn't be stuck in the awkward analysis-paralysis of trying not to reveal too many or too few Coppers. Why can't Mill Town gain a card that costs $2, anyway?

Well, the reason that Mill Town can't gain $2 cards is that I was afraid that it would be too easy to run out piles with it. A hand with 3 Mill Towns and 2 Coppers could gain 4 Estates, after all. Now that I think about it, I see no real problem with the gaining being 'up to' the number of Coppers revealed as long as you still have to reveal at least 3 Coppers. I'll change the wording. I think I actually have to reword the card anyway, because as it's currently written, I think you could gain, say, a Familiar by revealing 3 Coppers.

First of all, nice mini-set utilizing the one-shot theme!

One thing I thought of when reading the cards:

I don't think your concern about gaining too many cards with Mill Town and running out piles should be limited to just $2 cards. I think Mill Town would be a go-to card a lot of the time.

For instance, have you played any Mill Town - Tactician - terminal draw games? Goal: get a a deck of 2 Tacticians, 8 Coppers, and as many Mill Towns and Smithies as possible (making sure #Smithies < # Mill Towns at all times). Mill Town's gain and your normal buy should accomplish this very quickly. Then double Tac and reveal 8 Coppers for Provinces. I played this solitaire for two games and exhaused the Province pile on turn 11 in game 1 and turn 10 in game 2. Contested, the Mill Town and Smithy pile would run out extremely quickly.

I think your point is extremely valid and clearly Tactician/Mill Town is a power combo. Probably it's even better than Tactician/Coppersmith or Tactician/Bank. That being said, it is just one combination and I'm not convinced that it's worth tweaking Mill Town over, when the card works quite well in general as it is. For one thing, even if all the players race for such a double-Tactician deck, I'm guessing the it might still be an interesting game. Even if it's not, at least it's short!

More importantly, there are several attacks that at least hamper that strategy. Junk-givers and discard-based attacks are probably the most effective, although concentrated trashing attacks might be viable as well.
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