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[LastFootnote]

How does the investment mat interact with the end game? Do they count towards your deck at the end of the game? This would matter for action-victory cards, Vineyards, Gardens, and possibly Fairgrounds and Silk Road as well.

Same as Island, Native Village, Haven, etc.  They go back to your deck at the end of the game.

scott_pilgrim is right. Apparently the fact that set-aside cards always get returned to your deck at the end of the game is somewhere in the rules, although I can't find where.

[NoMoreFun]

What ratios of card types are you trying to reach? Have you got a checklist you're referring back to?

EDIT: Also want to gush about your two trasher attacks. I'm in the process of making my own set and it seems so hard to come up with a decent trashing attack, and you've come up with two.

[LastFootnote]

What ratios of card types are you trying to reach? Have you got a checklist you're referring back to?

I'm aiming for about half terminals and half non-terminals. Investment needs a good number of non-terminals to be worth going for. 3 villages, but I'm counting self-trashing villages and throne rooms as less. No more than 3 deck thinners. Probably no more than 3 remodels. I'm sort of counting Refurbish as a remodel right now. Committee, Gambler, and Dignitary are deck thinning, but I kind of wish I had a stronger trasher. Probably it's not a big deal, especially since there are a fair few Copper-using cards in the set.

EDIT: Also want to gush about your two trasher attacks. I'm in the process of making my own set and it seems so hard to come up with a decent trashing attack, and you've come up with two.

Thanks. Axeman came about because I realized that there were cards that combined each two kinds of attacks (discarder, mucker, junker, trasher), except discarder-trasher. (This was before Sir Michael, mind you.) It seemed to me that the simplest way to do such a card was to have it trash a good card from your hand. Of course, that's an incredibly harsh attack, so I gave the option of gaining a cheaper card in its place. I was then too worried that players would simply use opponents' copies of the card to VP rush at the end of the game. Trash Gold, gain Duchy, etc. So the gained card goes onto your deck. This also nerfs the attack a little more in the earlier parts of the game, and that's good too. I'm skipping a few development steps, but that's the gist of it. I called that card Tax Collector. It cost $6.

It left the set because I was still afraid the attack was too harsh. I had run a solitaire game where I got hit by the Attack every turn (since that could easily happen in a multi-player game. I just couldn't get anywhere. My deck was treading water. I replaced it with a discarder-mucker instead. You can currently still see that version in the OP.

One time when we were playing with Taxman, my wife suggested that I should make a card named "Axeman". I decided to bring the old Attack back and add the "can't buy this if you have no Actions in play" clause from some of Donald's outtakes. I haven't done another stress test on it, so it's possible I'll axe it for the same reason. But I'm hoping that 4 turns of build-up before you get hit by it will be enough to make it workable.

I don't really think of Barrister as a true trasher, since it only trashes Domains. It was originally just a trashing Attack that could steal all Treasure cards (including Domains), but I couldn't make it different enough from existing Thief variants to be interesting. So it is as you see it. I don't really want two harsh trashing attacks in the set, so it works out. I still need to try Domain at $3. I realized recently that at that price it can provide an additional buffer against Axeman, which is cute in game that have both Axeman and Barrister.

So my advice to you is to constrain your design space in some way when designing trashing Attacks (or any cards, really). It can help creativity. That being said, a set doesn't need to have a trashing Attack at all. None of the small sets do, and neither does Prosperity.

[mail-mi]

One time when we were playing with Taxman, my wife suggested that I should make a card named "Axeman". I decided to bring the old Attack back and add the "can't buy this if you have no Actions in play" clause from some of Donald's outtakes. I haven't done another stress test on it, so it's possible I'll axe it for the same reason. But I'm hoping that 4 turns of build-up before you get hit by it will be enough to make it workable.

I see what you did there...

[Nic]

LF, do you have printable sheets of these cards, or are there directions somewhere for putting together a template? I'll be spending the weekend up in the mountains, with a crowd that likes Dominion but wouldn't go for playing with proxied cards. I sleeved my entire collection a few months ago, so I can just slip some paper into the sleeves (for blanks, excess Ruins, Rebuild &c.). What I need is a .pdf of properly sized cards that I can just take to Kinko's, order ten copies, and cut them out myself.

[LastFootnote]

LF, do you have printable sheets of these cards, or are there directions somewhere for putting together a template? I'll be spending the weekend up in the mountains, with a crowd that likes Dominion but wouldn't go for playing with proxied cards. I sleeved my entire collection a few months ago, so I can just slip some paper into the sleeves (for blanks, excess Ruins, Rebuild &c.). What I need is a .pdf of properly sized cards that I can just take to Kinko's, order ten copies, and cut them out myself.

I'm on it. I'll post the here tonight.

[Nic]

Sweet. Feel free to toss in some cards that you want tested. (If there's space left over, I wouldn't say no to Crystal Ball or Archivist, either.  )

[LastFootnote]

Sweet. Feel free to toss in some cards that you want tested. (If there's space left over, I wouldn't say no to Crystal Ball or Archivist, either.  )

As it turns out, there is exactly enough space for the 24 Kingdom cards I have right now and the ancillary cards (Conscripts and Domain).

[LastFootnote]

It appears that I can only have 4 attachments per post. Here are the Kingdom card sheets.

[LastFootnote]

Here are the Conscripts and Domain sheets. You'll need 10 copies each of kingdom1.pdf, kingdom2.pdf, and kingdom3.pdf. You'll only need 2 copies of conscripts.pdf and 1 copy of domain.pdf.

When printing all these sheets, I had to set "Page Scaling" to "None" in order to get them to come out the right size. Your printer or the print shop's printer may or may not have such an option, but I thought I'd mention it. If the cards come out a little small, it's probably no big deal. They'll just require less cutting to fit in the sleeves. Still, if possible, I'd ask the person at Kinko's to print out a test sheet so you know they're being printed at approximately the right size.

I use upside-down Seaside mats for the Investment mats and Embaro tokens for Trade tokens.

Thanks for wanting to test these out! I hope it goes well. If you have time, let me know how your group liked the various cards.

EDIT: I updated the image post with the latest changes.

• Domain now costs $3. I'm hoping this will create more interesting play in games with trash-for-benefit cards.
• Guide and Recruiter have been added.
• Lodge has been reworded but remains functionally the same.

[dondon151]

On Barrister, "Treasures" is spelt incorrectly.

[NoMoreFun]

Can you make the image post the OP?

[LastFootnote]

On Barrister, "Treasures" is spelt incorrectly.

Thanks. Fixed.

Can you make the image post the OP?

I will do that if I have time today.

[NoMoreFun]

I like Lodge now. It's similar to terrace; simple card with a niche with a one time ability to get you out of a pickle. Exchange and Guide on the other hand are more opportunistic.

Most of the trade token cards seem right for their price points without their trade token ability (with the obvious exception of Terrace), although in some cases it's more in a "strictly better" sense than a "competitive with other cards of the same cost" sense.

I didn't think Guide would be a $3 though. How likely is one of the 3 cards revealed to be dead? It compares favourably to Oracle, and that's before the trade tokens. Excellent card design, but seems a bit strong at $3. Playtesting will have the answer.

Recruiter (my card is now "Pioneer") seems good. I like the combo with General (and Throne Room, and Procession).

Well done on completing a big box set. Now it's time to refine, but this is way, way better than the fan expansions on bgg.

[LastFootnote]

The OP has finally been updated. It contains a little blurb on each card, plus a zero-to-five star rating showing how much playtesting each card has gotten.

Most of the trade token cards seem right for their price points without their trade token ability (with the obvious exception of Terrace), although in some cases it's more in a "strictly better" sense than a "competitive with other cards of the same cost" sense.

Well, that's fine with me. Exchange and Lodge I think would be weak $5 cards without their tokens, but obviously strictly better than their $4 counterparts. Lodge without tokens is obviously way worse than Margrave, so I wouldn't mind if it got a boost. There's not a lot of room on the card, though. I hope the token ability is powerful enough to make up for it. Man, I've tried so many cards for the "+3 Cards" slot. I really hope Lodge works out.

I didn't think Guide would be a $3 though. How likely is one of the 3 cards revealed to be dead? It compares favourably to Oracle, and that's before the trade tokens. Excellent card design, but seems a bit strong at $3. Playtesting will have the answer.

Maybe you're right. I haven't playtested it yet. I'm not too worried about it relative to Oracle, though. Oracle sifts before drawing, which is significant, and of course it also attacks.

Well done on completing a big box set. Now it's time to refine, but this is way, way better than the fan expansions on bgg.

Thanks. It's not complete, though, even in the "enough cards" sense. I need one more card to get up to 25 Kingdom cards and fill the 300 card box. This set has already had so much refining, but as you say, it will ideally have a lot more.

[NoMoreFun]

You don't need a +3 cards, just 3 decent terminal drawers if that. Seaside only has wharf (if you count ghost ship, then you'd need a lot more to keep up with Base).

You do seem to have a lot of terminal silvers, but nothing wrong with that. You could make Barrister hit everyone, then +3 cards (self sabotage woohoo).

Like I said though, lodge is good, it's just sharing space with Vault.

[LastFootnote]

Mill Town specifically wants +3 (or more) Cards in the set. It loves Envoy.

Barrister could be +2 Cards instead of +$2. I've considered that. It'd be even closer to Rabble, though, and maybe make a last-minute Domain rush too good. Probably not, though.

It's a bit lame that all three Attack cards give +$2. But on the other hand, it makes the Barracks decision easier. Do I need $2 more this turn? Dig for an Attack!

[mail-mi]

if you want a smithy+, here's an option.

Card, $5
+3 cards (maybe something else).
You may spend a trade token. If you do, +1 action and discard a card.
--
When you gain this take a trade token.

[LastFootnote]

if you want a smithy+, here's an option.

Card, $5
+3 cards (maybe something else).
You may spend a trade token. If you do, +1 action and discard a card.
--
When you gain this take a trade token.

I appreciate the thought, but that seems less compelling than Lodge to me. Trade tokens for +Actions isn't off the table, but the set probably doesn't need more nonterminal draw.

If I were to use this, I don't think "and discard a card" is necessary. It's a one-use ability and probably doesn't need further penalizing.

[NoMoreFun]

Would it be worth tying Wheelwright's penalty to the discard, so it can combo with exchange and other draw to X enablers? It adds "intent" to the copper when you want it to hurt.

I thought this when I was pondering how strong exchange without the trade token is. It's decent and you don't need to buff it. Being able to turn a gold into a province and still play another action is great. Governor's Remodel is very useful and that has a penalty (although it's also on a card that gains gold).

Will the final card be a 3rd conscripts card? Dark ages has 3 ruins cards and 3 spoils cards. So glad to see a 2nd.

[LastFootnote]

Would it be worth tying Wheelwright's penalty to the discard, so it can combo with exchange and other draw to X enablers? It adds "intent" to the copper when you want it to hurt.

I'm confused. First of all, it already combos with draw-to-X enablers. Even though you can discard bad cards with Wheelwright, it still benefits from disappearing Coins and Actions. Second, what do you mean by "when you want [the Copper] to hurt"? Other players have the option of gaining a Copper to hand. It's not mandatory. If it were mandatory, it would have to be an Attack, but it would fall into the unfortunate realm of Attack cards that can help as often as hurt. Imagine if Bishop or Vault's optional benefits were mandatory.

I thought this when I was pondering how strong exchange without the trade token is. It's decent and you don't need to buff it. Being able to turn a gold into a province and still play another action is great. Governor's Remodel is very useful and that has a penalty (although it's also on a card that gains gold).

I'm not sure whether I've ever compared Exchange to Governor before. It's true that Exchange is way better at remodeling. It may also be true that Exchange without the Trade token ability is fine at $5. I don't care, though, because the whole concept of the card is remodel-to-hand. A card that's just a non-terminal Remodel isn't worth doing. So even if it's balanced without that ability, unless it's broken with the ability, I'm not changing it. If I had to weaken it, I'd bump it to $6, which has the added benefits of letting you Exchange Exchanges into Provinces and giving me a $6 card for the set. Hmm, this is sounding pret-ty good. Maybe I'll try it out.

Will the final card be a 3rd conscripts card? Dark ages has 3 ruins cards and 3 spoils cards. So glad to see a 2nd.

I'm glad that you're glad. But the chances of a third Conscripts card are slim. Unlike Spoils, each Conscripts-gaining card effectively adds another Attack to the set in terms of the ratio of cards that slow the game down. And it's the same Attack! Lame. I'm hoping that Recruiter works and that it's different enough from Barracks to be worth doing. I would have preferred if some iteration of Profiteer had worked out.

Profiteer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player gains a Conscripts from the Conscripts pile.

I playtested it in a few games. Nobody ever bought it but me. Even when I won, they were all like, "Thanks for the free Attack cards, sucker!"

[KingZog3]

Why does there have to be 3 conscripts cards? There's only 1 Mercenary card, and only 1 Madman card. I thought this was in the same "Card to get another card" boat.

[LastFootnote]

Why does there have to be 3 conscripts cards? There's only 1 Mercenary card, and only 1 Madman card. I thought this was in the same "Card to get another card" boat.

The more cards that are in the box, the more ancillary cards you can get away with having, I think. Conscripts basically takes up a slot that could have held a Kingdom card. But since there's still room for 25 Kingdom cards in the set, I think it's OK to have it. It's nice to have multiple Kingdom cards that can use each ancillary card for two reasons. First, the ancillary card seems more justified. It's not taking up a whole slot just for the sake of one card. Second, it allows you to do more simple cards. Marauder is an incredibly simple card but still feels fresh because it gets to use two kinds of ancillary cards for its complexity.

I think Attack cards in general are very good candidates for ancillary card usage because it's so hard to make fresh Attacks just by cobbling together existing mechanics. So much of that space has already been explored. Although I hadn't considered it earlier, it makes sense that Conscripts and Domain are both tied into Attacks. Look at Dark Ages. Urchin/Mercenary, Marauder, Cultist, and Pillage all use ancillary cards.

Anyhow, if Conscripts weren't an Attack, I would probably try to fit in a third card that uses them. It is an Attack, though, and the set only wants so much attacking.

As an aside, Barracks and Conscripts predate the publication of Dark Ages, so I didn't create Conscripts with Madman or Spoils in mind. Although I did take "return this to the pile" from those cards once Dark Ages came out. Conscripts used to just trash themselves.

[NoMoreFun]

Exchange is perfectly priced and I look forward to playing with it when I get the chance.

[silverspawn]

ok, so, first of all: this looks really good. almost all cards are interesting and it feels like there's a lot of thought put into making this expansion.

second, i'd encourage you to put some more stuff into the opening post, like the downloads for the current versions of all cards, and the "picture post", or maybe a link to it. it'd make it easier to find stuff without having to look for it in the thread.

third: i would love to play with these, but but how would go about getting them to be physical cards? I mean, obviously you can print them, but having cards made out of paper isn't exactly ideal. you could glue them onto blanks, but i don't have nearly enough blanks. you can buy them here:
http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/dominion-blank-cards
but that's ridiculously overpriced. i also don't use sleeves, because i play mostly online. my brother once made a cube of mtg cards by printing and glueing them onto a bunch of basic lands, but that doesn't really work here; there aren't any cards left to spare in dominion. i guess you could buy a copy of dark ages and use all of the cards ans pseudo-blanks, but that doesn't seem like a very elegant way. should i just start using sleeves?