Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All

Author Topic: Allies is online  (Read 13728 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

vidicate

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
  • Shuffle iT Username: vidicate
  • Something clever goes here
  • Respect: +111
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2022, 08:33:36 pm »
+2

Rotating the Castles sounds like fun. And I can imagine someone rotating the Ruins, searching desperately for a +Buy.

Is Clash now the first card type that nothing actually refers to or depends on?

Gathering? Reaction?
Gathering is referred to by the Landmark, Defiled Shrine.
Logged
WHERE ARE THE TURTLES?!!! …WHERE ARE THEY?!
-----
Felix: Let's see if you guys are as good as they say.
Grif: Prepare to be sorely disappointed.
-----
Who da man? I da man. I always suspected. -Dr. House

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4434
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2022, 12:59:35 am »
+2

Rotating the Castles sounds like fun. And I can imagine someone rotating the Ruins, searching desperately for a +Buy.

Is Clash now the first card type that nothing actually refers to or depends on?

Gathering? Reaction?

Gathering is referred to by the Landmark, Defiled Shrine.

I think he's right about Reactions though!
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2022, 01:31:36 am »
+1

All new cards added to auto-link. For Chrome you'll need to clear your local cache to see it. And the Wiki pages/images aren't there yet so it just links to nothing, but I'm sure someone will have them added pretty quickly.

All rollover images working!
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

emtzalex

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1450
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2022, 01:35:03 am »
+2

Rotating the Castles sounds like fun. And I can imagine someone rotating the Ruins, searching desperately for a +Buy.

Is Clash now the first card type that nothing actually refers to or depends on?

Gathering? Reaction?

Gathering is referred to by the Landmark, Defiled Shrine.

I think he's right about Reactions though!

Reactions have different rules about when/how they are played. No cards directly refer to "Reserve" or "Night" cards either, but they are also subject to their own rules about when/how they are played/used.
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4434
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2022, 02:04:46 am »
0

Rotating the Castles sounds like fun. And I can imagine someone rotating the Ruins, searching desperately for a +Buy.

Is Clash now the first card type that nothing actually refers to or depends on?

Gathering? Reaction?

Gathering is referred to by the Landmark, Defiled Shrine.

I think he's right about Reactions though!

Reactions have different rules about when/how they are played. No cards directly refer to "Reserve" or "Night" cards either, but they are also subject to their own rules about when/how they are played/used.

I don't think there are any rules for Reactions in general, are there? I mean, the Adventures rule book describes how Reserve cards work ("Reserve cards are tan, and have an ability that puts them on the Tavern mat") and the Nocturne rule book describes how Night cards work ("In your Night phase, you can play any number of Night cards"), but is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?
Logged

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4434
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2022, 02:09:32 am »
+1

is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?

Okay, yes, there is: Adventures again, it says "Players may use multiple Reaction cards in response to a single event. Reactions are resolved one at a time. The second Reaction card can be one that was not initially in hand when the first Reaction card was used." So there are general rules for Reaction cards.
Logged

Jeebus

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2515
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +1635
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2022, 04:19:54 am »
+1

Rotating the Castles sounds like fun. And I can imagine someone rotating the Ruins, searching desperately for a +Buy.

Is Clash now the first card type that nothing actually refers to or depends on?

Gathering? Reaction?

Gathering exists specifically so that a card can refer to it.

Reaction is more interesting. Of course, the rulebooks refer to them, so it's not that nothing refers to them. But by a technical reading of the rules, the type is not needed. However, there are some other rules, like "Reactions from your hand can be resolved repeatedly", that refer to it. These rules could be phrased without referring to the type, but they would get more complicated. And then you could maybe say the same thing about some other types that exist just to be referred to: you could rephrase them, make them more complicated, without using the type.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 10:28:55 am by Jeebus »
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2022, 04:38:40 am »
0

is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?

Okay, yes, there is: Adventures again, it says "Players may use multiple Reaction cards in response to a single event. Reactions are resolved one at a time. The second Reaction card can be one that was not initially in hand when the first Reaction card was used." So there are general rules for Reaction cards.
This was for instance for Secret Chamber which when revealed let you draw 2 cards and topdeck 2 cards. So you could reveal and resolve Secret Chamber, draw a Moat and then reveal a Moat.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2022, 05:15:44 am »
0

is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?

Okay, yes, there is: Adventures again, it says "Players may use multiple Reaction cards in response to a single event. Reactions are resolved one at a time. The second Reaction card can be one that was not initially in hand when the first Reaction card was used." So there are general rules for Reaction cards.

That doesn't add the rule to the game though, the rule exists independently of Reactions and works the same way for all triggers. It's more of an explanation of how things work than a rule.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Jeebus

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2515
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +1635
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2022, 06:57:05 am »
+3

is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?

Okay, yes, there is: Adventures again, it says "Players may use multiple Reaction cards in response to a single event. Reactions are resolved one at a time. The second Reaction card can be one that was not initially in hand when the first Reaction card was used." So there are general rules for Reaction cards.

That doesn't add the rule to the game though, the rule exists independently of Reactions and works the same way for all triggers. It's more of an explanation of how things work than a rule.

You could say the same about Reserve cards. They don't have any rules. The keyword "call" is defined independently.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2022, 09:31:28 am »
0

is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?

Okay, yes, there is: Adventures again, it says "Players may use multiple Reaction cards in response to a single event. Reactions are resolved one at a time. The second Reaction card can be one that was not initially in hand when the first Reaction card was used." So there are general rules for Reaction cards.

That doesn't add the rule to the game though, the rule exists independently of Reactions and works the same way for all triggers. It's more of an explanation of how things work than a rule.

You could say the same about Reserve cards. They don't have any rules. The keyword "call" is defined independently.

Reserve absolutely has no rules meaning; it's neither true that all reserve cards have anything to do with Call (Distant Lands) or that Reserve cards are the only thing that can go on the Tavern mat (Miser).

I've complained in the past about "Reserve" existing at all as a type, because it has no defined meaning and nothing references it. You can say "Reserve cards are cards that get moved to your Tavern Mat when you play them" but that's no different than taking any other ability like "+ cards" or "trash a card from your hand" and giving a specific type to every card that has that ability.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2022, 09:34:20 am by GendoIkari »
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Squidd

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 188
  • Respect: +603
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2022, 10:39:20 am »
0

Technically you only have a Tavern mat at all if there's a Reserve card in the game, but that's not much of a reason.
Logged

MrFrog

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 55
  • Shuffle iT Username: MrFrog
  • Respect: +101
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2022, 10:44:51 am »
+3

Technically you only have a Tavern mat at all if there's a Reserve card in the game, but that's not much of a reason.
That's not true. Miser uses the mat without being a Reserve.
Logged

Squidd

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 188
  • Respect: +603
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2022, 10:57:34 am »
+2

Well, the rules only tell you to use Tavern mats if any Reserve cards are being used, so that's a problem with Miser.

edit: Maybe that changed in later printings of the rulebook? RGG still only has the 2015 version online.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2022, 10:59:40 am by Squidd »
Logged

emtzalex

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1450
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2022, 05:11:46 pm »
+2

Reactions have different rules about when/how they are played. No cards directly refer to "Reserve" or "Night" cards either, but they are also subject to their own rules about when/how they are played/used.

I don't think there are any rules for Reactions in general, are there? I mean, the Adventures rule book describes how Reserve cards work ("Reserve cards are tan, and have an ability that puts them on the Tavern mat") and the Nocturne rule book describes how Night cards work ("In your Night phase, you can play any number of Night cards"), but is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?

The rule book for the base set describes rules for Reactions:
Quote
Reaction: These are cards that can be used in some way at an unusual time. Any such use is spelled out on the Reaction card; for example Moat says it can be revealed when another player plays an Attack card. Reactions are used one at a time (which matters for expansion Reactions).
(p. 6).

The Menagerie rule book has an entire section on Reactions:

Quote
Menagerie has five Reaction cards. Four of them can be played at an unusual time: Black Cat, Falconer, Sheepdog, and Village Green.
  • Playing one of these Reactions using its ability (the text below the dividing line) puts it into play, like playing it normally, but does not use up an Action.
  • If you play a card on someone else's turn, you discard it in that turn's Clean-up, unless it is a Duration card with things left to do.
  • If playing one of these Reactions draws you another Reaction that can be used at the same time, you can use it, and so on. For example, you might have one Black Cat in hand when an opponent gains a Province, play it, draw another, play it, draw another, play it.
  • When playing one of these Reactions, you can choose to use a Way if there is one.
  • If multiple players want to do things at the same time - such as play Reactions - the player first in turn order (starting from the player whose turn it is) goes first. This may change who wants to do what; after each thing, start again from the first player and see who has things to do.
  • Sometimes a condition occurs that allows a Reaction to be played, and that Reaction creates a second condition that allows Reactions to be played. Resolve all Reactions for the new condition and then go back to resolving ones for the first one. For example one player gains a Province, and another plays Black Cat. Gaining a Curse from Black Cat allows players to play Sheepdogs; after resolving those you would go back to see if players had more Black Cats to play.
(p. 4).



That doesn't add the rule to the game though, the rule exists independently of Reactions and works the same way for all triggers. It's more of an explanation of how things work than a rule.

What is the difference between "an explanation of how things work" in a rule book and a rule? That Treasure cards can be played during your Buy phase (but not after you have bought something) is "an explanation of how things work" but it is also a rule about Treasures.
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2022, 01:55:54 am »
+3


What is the difference between "an explanation of how things work" in a rule book and a rule? That Treasure cards can be played during your Buy phase (but not after you have bought something) is "an explanation of how things work" but it is also a rule about Treasures.

The difference is that all the rules dealing with reactions are not actually limited to reactions. If a card were printed with all the exact same wordings as Black Cat, but without the reaction type, then you would still be able to play it from your hand when an opponent gains a victory card. This is different than Treasure, because if a card were printed that had all the same words as Horn of Plenty, but without the Treasure type, then you would not be allowed to play it during your buy phase.

In other words, no matter how much the rulebook describes the way in which reactions work, adding reaction as a type to a card doesn’t actually change its functionality. It is no different than adding the Attack type to a card.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

grrgrrgrr

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 323
  • Respect: +415
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2022, 04:20:25 am »
+1

We must not forget that Reactions and Reserves are typings that cause the card to have a different color. And that is really the reason these types exist. Reactions in particular have a passive effect that occurs/can occur at an unusual timing, and this effect exists every time you draw the card. If these card had a normal color, it would be way too easy to forget those Reactions.

(and with Reserves, it's also future-proofing. I mean, they could introduce a card that lets you immediately move a Reserve to its mat upon gaining.)

Reactions have different rules about when/how they are played. No cards directly refer to "Reserve" or "Night" cards either, but they are also subject to their own rules about when/how they are played/used.

I don't think there are any rules for Reactions in general, are there? I mean, the Adventures rule book describes how Reserve cards work ("Reserve cards are tan, and have an ability that puts them on the Tavern mat") and the Nocturne rule book describes how Night cards work ("In your Night phase, you can play any number of Night cards"), but is there any Dominion rule book that describes rules for Reactions, as a type?

The rule book for the base set describes rules for Reactions:
Quote
Reaction: These are cards that can be used in some way at an unusual time. Any such use is spelled out on the Reaction card; for example Moat says it can be revealed when another player plays an Attack card. Reactions are used one at a time (which matters for expansion Reactions).
(p. 6).
All types have a description. And the last part holds true for triggers in general. But this is such a prevalent thing among non-Moat Reactions, it doesn't hurt to restate it here.

Quote
The Menagerie rule book has an entire section on Reactions:

Quote
Menagerie has five Reaction cards. Four of them can be played at an unusual time: Black Cat, Falconer, Sheepdog, and Village Green.
  • Playing one of these Reactions using its ability (the text below the dividing line) puts it into play, like playing it normally, but does not use up an Action.
  • If you play a card on someone else's turn, you discard it in that turn's Clean-up, unless it is a Duration card with things left to do.
  • If playing one of these Reactions draws you another Reaction that can be used at the same time, you can use it, and so on. For example, you might have one Black Cat in hand when an opponent gains a Province, play it, draw another, play it, draw another, play it.
  • When playing one of these Reactions, you can choose to use a Way if there is one.
  • If multiple players want to do things at the same time - such as play Reactions - the player first in turn order (starting from the player whose turn it is) goes first. This may change who wants to do what; after each thing, start again from the first player and see who has things to do.
  • Sometimes a condition occurs that allows a Reaction to be played, and that Reaction creates a second condition that allows Reactions to be played. Resolve all Reactions for the new condition and then go back to resolving ones for the first one. For example one player gains a Province, and another plays Black Cat. Gaining a Curse from Black Cat allows players to play Sheepdogs; after resolving those you would go back to see if players had more Black Cats to play.
(p. 4).

These are just rule clarifications that apply to "Reactions that can play themselves". The reason they went for this route is because they didn't want to state this four times, and it would also ease things up when a future expansion has more of these kinds of Reactions.
Logged

vidicate

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 148
  • Shuffle iT Username: vidicate
  • Something clever goes here
  • Respect: +111
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2022, 05:07:19 am »
+1

@dz, Fort-Garrison is missing the +$2. Thank you!
Logged
WHERE ARE THE TURTLES?!!! …WHERE ARE THEY?!
-----
Felix: Let's see if you guys are as good as they say.
Grif: Prepare to be sorely disappointed.
-----
Who da man? I da man. I always suspected. -Dr. House

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2022, 06:07:03 am »
+2

What is the difference between "an explanation of how things work" in a rule book and a rule?

Rules determine how the game is played, and then there are other things in the rule book that help you understand or remember what the rules are and what they do in various situations, like explanations, clarifications, example situations, etc. The part about Reactions is the latter whereas the part about Treasures is the former.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2022, 06:34:26 am »
+2

After having played quite a few games with it, I must say I really like Innkeeper.

It may not look that strong, but I think I've chosen each separate option multiple times.
If you know the contents of your deck well, you can make well informed decisions and this really helps.

Have a hand with 1 Estate? Maybe go for +3/-3...
Have a hand with 2 Estates? Maybe go for +5/-6..
Have a hand with all good cards? Okay, maybe just use the cantrip option.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Jeebus

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2515
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +1635
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2022, 10:15:39 am »
0

Barbarian
$5; Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player trashes the top card of their deck. If it costs $3 or more they gain a cheaper card sharing a type with it; otherwise they gain a Curse.

Question: Suppose Barbarian hits, say, a Village, but there are no Action cards costing less than $3. Do you get a Curse? I think no, because the "otherwise" would refer back to the "if it costs $3 or more". But it could also mean "if you did not gain a cheaper card"

I also would think no. But Gamble had the opposite ruling. Gamble had a "may" which made it even more ambiguous, but it also had the phrasing "if x otherwise y", where grammatically "otherwise" should mean "if not x", just as with Barbarian.

It would be good with a ruling on this.

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2022, 10:26:22 am »
0

Barbarian
$5; Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player trashes the top card of their deck. If it costs $3 or more they gain a cheaper card sharing a type with it; otherwise they gain a Curse.

Question: Suppose Barbarian hits, say, a Village, but there are no Action cards costing less than $3. Do you get a Curse? I think no, because the "otherwise" would refer back to the "if it costs $3 or more". But it could also mean "if you did not gain a cheaper card"

I also would think no. But Gamble had the opposite ruling. Gamble had a "may" which made it even more ambiguous, but it also had the phrasing "if x otherwise y", where grammatically "otherwise" should mean "if not x", just as with Barbarian.

It would be good with a ruling on this.
I would think the condition is just "if it costs $3 more".
So if this condition is true, you try to do what it says "gain a cheaper card sharing a type".

As always you try to do as much as you can, but in this case if you can't gain a cheaper card, you just don't gain a card.
So your Village is gone and you don't get a replacement, sorry. :)

From the rulebook:
Quote
If the trashed card
costs 3 or more, they have to gain a cheaper card if they can; if there are no
cheaper cards that share a type, they simply fail to gain a card.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 10:28:00 am by Davio »
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Jeebus

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2515
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +1635
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2022, 10:55:48 am »
0

So your Village is gone and you don't get a replacement, sorry. :)

From the rulebook:
Quote
If the trashed card
costs 3 or more, they have to gain a cheaper card if they can; if there are no
cheaper cards that share a type, they simply fail to gain a card.

Right! I had just read that in the rulebook, but missed the implication that "fail to gain a card" would of course also include the Curse.
I wouldn't say "sorry" though, it's better to gain nothing than a Curse.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2022, 11:42:49 am »
0

So your Village is gone and you don't get a replacement, sorry. :)

From the rulebook:
Quote
If the trashed card
costs 3 or more, they have to gain a cheaper card if they can; if there are no
cheaper cards that share a type, they simply fail to gain a card.

Right! I had just read that in the rulebook, but missed the implication that "fail to gain a card" would of course also include the Curse.
I wouldn't say "sorry" though, it's better to gain nothing than a Curse.

What was the ruling on Gamble? I would think just from the wording that you don't discard the non-played action/treasure, you just leave it on top of your deck. This would match the ruling for Barbarian.

(Interestingly, I don't think it's clear that "fail to gain a card" would also include Curse, as it could simply mean "fail to gain a cheaper card sharing a type with it". However, the "simply" in the rules makes it clear for me; "simply" meaning "this and nothing else happens").
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 11:46:39 am by GendoIkari »
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Allies is online
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2022, 11:49:04 am »
0

I found in the official FAQ that Gamble does in fact discard the action or treasure if you don't play it. This sounds to me like a contradiction to Barbarian.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All
 

Page created in 0.133 seconds with 22 queries.