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Author Topic: Allies Preview 3: Choose One  (Read 19494 times)

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Gherald

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2022, 05:01:59 am »
0

Two different things about $0 cards have been said -- on Discord, that it doesn't give a choice for Curse, and here that it does give a choice for Copper.  I'm merely pointing this out, alongside what the online implementation does. Your response doesn't add anything and is misleading since we have no way to know which "tentative ruling" will stick.
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Jeebus

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2022, 07:37:50 am »
+5

Two different things about $0 cards have been said -- on Discord, that it doesn't give a choice for Curse, and here that it does give a choice for Copper.  I'm merely pointing this out, alongside what the online implementation does. Your response doesn't add anything and is misleading since we have no way to know which "tentative ruling" will stick.

Is there a tentative ruling for this on discord? That hasn't been reported here, I think. Just how it works online. In any case, there's no question that Scrapping a Copper and a Curse would work the same way, like GendoIkari was saying.

EDIT:

Just searched for Donald's statements on Discord, and today he actually confirmed the ruling.

Also, he tentatively ruled that Elder+Scrap+nothing gives you no choice whatsoever. To me this is another case of "it" (the trashed card) being undefined, so you don't even get to choose among 0 options, like you do if you trash a Copper. So the ruling should stick.

Of course, I wish Donald would write his rulings here instead, where they would be available and visible.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 09:19:35 am by Jeebus »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2022, 11:17:30 am »
+1

Two different things about $0 cards have been said -- on Discord, that it doesn't give a choice for Curse, and here that it does give a choice for Copper.  I'm merely pointing this out, alongside what the online implementation does. Your response doesn't add anything and is misleading since we have no way to know which "tentative ruling" will stick.

I was not aware of any tentative ruling about Curse on Discord...
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Donald X.

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2022, 02:27:47 pm »
+2

Of course, I wish Donald would write his rulings here instead, where they would be available and visible.
It's nice to have the more permanent and searchable record of forums, but there is just way more traffic on the discord than here. I'd put dominionstrategy third (in terms of amount of traffic) after the reddit currently (and BGG a distant 4th, and I can't really rank the German forums as I rarely see them).
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trivialknot

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2022, 02:48:01 pm »
+1

Sorry to interrupt the very important discussion about Elder rules, but I'm giving my thoughts on the power level and implications of the previewed cards, based on no testing whatsoever.

Town Crier can do the Pawn thing where it's sometimes a cantrip, sometimes something else.  But I dunno, in modern Dominion, Pawn is kind of weak except for the +Buy, and Town Crier doesn't even have that.  It's not very strong but it doesn't hurt either, and there's that Elder synergy to look forward to, so eh?

Town Blacksmith seems more like it.  I think terminal draw that optionally cantrips is good in a way that Town Crier is not.

Miller is the super Border Guard.  Eh... it's not bad, but do I really want to spend $4 on it?

To gauge the power level of Elder, rather than imagining, e.g. Town Crier but with two options, I credit the second option to Elder.  So if I collide Elder+Town Crier, and use the extra option to get +$2, then Elder was like a non-terminal $4.  I would rate this on the level of a nice synergy, hardly world moving.  One thing that I find interesting, is that Elder synergizes with the top two Townsfolk, but not so much with Miller, so you have to invest in that synergy early and hope it pays off later.

Town seems somewhat above average for a village.  It's a decent even before you get your action density up, and the +Buy will be appreciated when it's needed.

Modify is roughly the power level of Upgrade, but I think slightly weaker.

I'm not sure if this was answered yet, but for Band of Nomads, can you only spend one favor per card you gain, or is it multiple?  I'm guessing it's just once per card?  When I first looked at favors, I thought they might be about as valuable as +Action or +Buy, and Band of Nomads makes that fairly direct.  But having the choice makes it even better.  What makes it less good is the timing restriction.  I think it's decent if you can gain cards during your action phase, but may otherwise be mediocre.

Architect's Guild seems comparable to Crafter's Guild from day 2.  Well, it can gain more expensive cards sometimes, but not victory cards, and it doesn't topdeck them.  I rated Crafter's Guild as extremely strong so I say the same here.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2022, 03:14:39 pm »
+3

Prediction: Architects' Guild is going to be the new Farmers' Market, where no one spells it right when it comes to the apostrophe.

Maybe I'll add an alias in the autolink so that the wrong version still works, like I did with Farmer's Market.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2022, 03:26:04 pm »
+4

One thing that I find interesting, is that Elder synergizes with the top two Townsfolk, but not so much with Miller, so you have to invest in that synergy early and hope it pays off later.

Just think, Miller could have been worded differently such that it works the same except when played with Elder:

Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Choose One:
Put the first card into your hand and discard the rest; or
Put the second card into your hand and discard the rest; or
Put the third card into your hand and discard the rest; or
Put the fourth card into your hand and discard the rest.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2022, 03:47:35 pm »
+5

Prediction: Architects' Guild is going to be the new Farmers' Market, where no one spells it right when it comes to the apostrophe.

I just can't figure out why that one worker was important enough to name the entire village after.
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Jeebus

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #83 on: March 04, 2022, 03:49:34 pm »
+6

Of course, I wish Donald would write his rulings here instead, where they would be available and visible.
It's nice to have the more permanent and searchable record of forums, but there is just way more traffic on the discord than here. I'd put dominionstrategy third (in terms of amount of traffic) after the reddit currently (and BGG a distant 4th, and I can't really rank the German forums as I rarely see them).

So I guess you're thinking cost-benefit in terms of how many people read what you're posting?

Well, even though there's a lot of traffic on discord, how many people actually end up reading it? Of course the group of people participating in the chat at that moment, but a lot more than that? Here it will accumulate views with time. I'm not saying that means that it's more here, I have no idea, but I don't think it's so clear that discord yields a lot more views.

In addition there is the thing that we need rulings to update the wiki and my rules document. I don't know if some wiki people grab everything from discord. I have posted a bunch of questions here that haven't gotten an answer yet (but I'll wait until the rulebook arrives and see what questions remain, and what new ones pop up, and make new posts in the rules forum.)

Donald X.

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2022, 10:55:53 am »
+2

So I guess you're thinking cost-benefit in terms of how many people read what you're posting?
Not at all. I'm simply replying to conversations where they actually occur.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2022, 03:40:04 pm »
0

So have we gotten a ruling on whether you can choose the order of the choices? That matters a big deal for Town Elder + Blacksmith: draw up to 6 cards, then +2 cards is way better than +2 cards, then draw up to 6 cards.
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Jeebus

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #86 on: March 05, 2022, 04:15:39 pm »
0

So I guess you're thinking cost-benefit in terms of how many people read what you're posting?
Not at all. I'm simply replying to conversations where they actually occur.

Oh. Well, they occur here too...

BraydonM

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2022, 04:53:39 pm »
+2

So have we gotten a ruling on whether you can choose the order of the choices? That matters a big deal for Town Elder + Blacksmith: draw up to 6 cards, then +2 cards is way better than +2 cards, then draw up to 6 cards.
All effects from a single card happen in the order they are written. With crier this can draw to 8 but using the first and last mode gives you 7 and an action which is better unles you’re drowning in actions.
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emtzalex

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2022, 02:18:43 pm »
0

So have we gotten a ruling on whether you can choose the order of the choices? That matters a big deal for Town Elder + Blacksmith: draw up to 6 cards, then +2 cards is way better than +2 cards, then draw up to 6 cards.
All effects from a single card happen in the order they are written. With crier this can draw to 8 but using the first and last mode gives you 7 and an action which is better unles you’re drowning in actions.

This carries out the rule that when you play an Action card, you " follow[] the instructions on it, in order, top to bottom." It's specifically applied in the FAQ for Scrap, where the order can also matter (as the +1 Card you take can hit the shuffle before you gain the Silver/Horse, or can draw you an on-gain Reaction, which you can then use).
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Donald X.

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #89 on: March 08, 2022, 11:30:37 am »
+2

So I guess you're thinking cost-benefit in terms of how many people read what you're posting?
Not at all. I'm simply replying to conversations where they actually occur.

Oh. Well, they occur here too...
And here I am! And you can also find me on reddit and BGG.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #90 on: March 08, 2022, 05:46:32 pm »
0

So have we gotten a ruling on whether you can choose the order of the choices? That matters a big deal for Town Elder + Blacksmith: draw up to 6 cards, then +2 cards is way better than +2 cards, then draw up to 6 cards.
All effects from a single card happen in the order they are written. With crier this can draw to 8 but using the first and last mode gives you 7 and an action which is better unles you’re drowning in actions.

OK, I guess that would be why the option for drawing up to 6 was put first?
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J Reggie

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #91 on: March 08, 2022, 06:31:43 pm »
+4

So I guess you're thinking cost-benefit in terms of how many people read what you're posting?
Not at all. I'm simply replying to conversations where they actually occur.

Oh. Well, they occur here too...
And here I am! And you can also find me on reddit and BGG.

I appreciate that. The inventors of other games I play, such as chess, aren't as active in the online communities for those games.

LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #92 on: March 08, 2022, 06:47:00 pm »
+4

So I guess you're thinking cost-benefit in terms of how many people read what you're posting?
Not at all. I'm simply replying to conversations where they actually occur.

Oh. Well, they occur here too...
And here I am! And you can also find me on reddit and BGG.

I appreciate that. The inventors of other games I play, such as chess, aren't as active in the online communities for those games.
The ghost of the inventor of Chess probably plays Dominion now.
(I wonder how many centuries he's been dead. It's gotta be long enough for him to get bored of Chess.)

vidicate

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2022, 05:59:25 pm »
0

It looks like Miller was an outtake mentioned in The Secret History of the Guilds Cards.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Herald#Relevant_outtakes
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AJD

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2022, 06:03:32 pm »
+2

It looks like Miller was an outtake mentioned in The Secret History of the Guilds Cards.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Herald#Relevant_outtakes

Interesting! Donald described it as "crazy powerful" and "way better" than Throne Room, and here it is unchanged from that form. I wonder if just having only four of them in the supply mitigates that overpoweredness.
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4est

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Re: Allies Preview 3: Choose One
« Reply #95 on: March 10, 2022, 01:34:09 am »
+4

It looks like Miller was an outtake mentioned in The Secret History of the Guilds Cards.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Herald#Relevant_outtakes

Interesting! Donald described it as "crazy powerful" and "way better" than Throne Room, and here it is unchanged from that form. I wonder if just having only four of them in the supply mitigates that overpoweredness.

More likely it's mitigated by being the third card in a split pile and thus not a factor until the midgame. Miller's cycling ability is super strong early on (to sift past junk and get to your good cards) and likely OP as an opener or T3 purchase, but it gets weaker as your deck quality goes up and it starts forcing you to discard good things too.
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