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[mxdata]

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?

voyage is simply an awful card.  I wouldn't buy it at 2.  It's just fucking stupid.  It wants to be a chic outpost, but it's much more of an shit outhouse.

In the right deck, it can be strong. It works well with gainers, especially Sunken Treasure. And even without gainers, you can usually buy some relatively cheap cards on the Voyage turn, especially if there's good trashers to clear out the junk. Even if you end up only playing 3 Silvers, that's a $6 card right there

On the other hand, in a game with cursing or other junking attacks, I definitely wouldn't bother with it

[Honkeyfresh]

The Augur pile is amazing tho..  Clearly the best of the rotating pile cards.  The synergy between all the cards is so good and all the cards are amazing in their own right.  Herb gatherer is a super strong 3 card, a buy that can play any treasure in your deck that also constantly cycles your deck allowing you to offload all the shit cards you stashed at the bottom from sybil, unless you chose acolyte to trash them for gold, or sorceress thee stashed cards for easy curse sniping. Also nice that acolyte self-destructs into a sibyl/sorceress after you are done trashing ur estates/chapel/cellar's for gold.

[Honkeyfresh]

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?

voyage is simply an awful card.  I wouldn't buy it at 2.  It's just fucking stupid.  It wants to be a chic outpost, but it's much more of an shit outhouse.

In the right deck, it can be strong. It works well with gainers, especially Sunken Treasure. And even without gainers, you can usually buy some relatively cheap cards on the Voyage turn, especially if there's good trashers to clear out the junk. Even if you end up only playing 3 Silvers, that's a $6 card right there

On the other hand, in a game with cursing or other junking attacks, I definitely wouldn't bother with it

meh it clogs your deck, punishes an engine and leaves you having fun figuring out if you should go silver or pawn while the guy next to you is alcolyting everything into gold/upgrading then to sibyl with the same cost card.

In a pure big $ deck it'd be fine(but how often do u play those?) , as u can probably pull 3 good treasures in 5 cards there.  But it's an anti-engine card, as most engines require multiple plays, and then u don't even get to play the drawn treasure. I'd rather have most 3 or 4 cost cards I can think of in its place to help my engine, than put this stone in my deck.

I mean there are some edge cases where it could be ok, but honestly I'm debating if it is better or worse than scout or woodcutter.  Pretty sure I'd rather have a woodcutter.

[Gherald]

The more apt comparison is it's like non-terminal workshop with more potential upside. Sometimes you want such a thing, sometimes you don't.

[mxdata]

Swap would be a really strong counter to Looters, probably to the point of making Looter attacks counterproductive. Just Swap those Ruins for some good Action cards!

[allanfieldhouse]

Re: Voyage discussion.

I have to say, I was surprised how little you can do on a Voyage turn. I was expecting its power level to be more similar to "only play 3 action cards". But not being able to finish by playing all Treasures does kill most standard turns.

On the other hand, there are a ton of useful things you can do with just a single action play on an extra turn. A few that come to mind are to hand out a Curse (or any other attack that stacks), Trash a card, or play a gainer (especially one such as Sunken Treasure that works better when you haven't just played a huge engine turn). Sometimes these things could've just happened on the original turn, but if you can do them an extra time because of Voyage, that's a huge boost. You just have to weigh that against the cost of an otherwise dead card.

[vidicate]

Re: Voyage discussion.

I have to say, I was surprised how little you can do on a Voyage turn. I was expecting its power level to be more similar to "only play 3 action cards". But not being able to finish by playing all Treasures does kill most standard turns.

On the other hand, there are a ton of useful things you can do with just a single action play on an extra turn. A few that come to mind are to hand out a Curse (or any other attack that stacks), Trash a card, or play a gainer (especially one such as Sunken Treasure that works better when you haven't just played a huge engine turn). Sometimes these things could've just happened on the original turn, but if you can do them an extra time because of Voyage, that's a huge boost. You just have to weigh that against the cost of an otherwise dead card.

We had an Odyssey game with Broker and Bandit. Voyage was great for (1) getting extra Bandit plays to have Golds to feed Broker (and try to trash opponents’ Sunken Treasures), (2) an extra Chapel turn in the early game, (3) Sunken Treasure (but we already knew that), (4) otherwise just grab whatever good $3-5 we could afford after playing 0-1 Action and 2-3 Treasures.

Another lesson I quickly learned was don’t topdeck the new Merchant Camp for a Voyage turn.

[Honkeyfresh]

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?

voyage is simply an awful card.  I wouldn't buy it at 2.  It's just fucking stupid.  It wants to be a chic outpost, but it's really an outhouse.

That's a strong opinion. Have you tried playing or playing against the card though?

I try playing all the new cards to a fault when in Preview/unrated games b/c why not?  And voyage has done nothing really to help and a lot to hurt.  I build engines almost every time unless it's a true "big money" board without the pieces for a reliable engine.  And this card just gums up any engine.  Unless you draw 3 good coins (or things to do -- a junker, gainer that works basically on its own the turn is near meaningless.  I just played a guy who in b2b games had voyager and never got better than a silver out of it, and most times even just got a 2 cost card.  So it stifles my engine in the first hand by having a non-terminal non-draw card, and then the second hand essentially might allow me to get a silver in my deck usually?  I'll pass.  I'd rather get almost any other 3/4 cost card in the first place and just make the first hand stronger and more likely to improve my overall deck.

 If you allowed me to add the card for free to my deck I think I would actually pass rather than have it. I almost can't think of a time where I would prefer Voyage to silver, and that is pretty sad for a 4 cost card.

I might try it some more to see If it shines anywhere,  But the only time I've seen it do very good things is when a guy drew three action cards with a +buy one (sacred grove) and played the next two actions via delay on the next turn.  So I guess it might work in Delay boards with + buy, but that's quite an edge case. But that really only shines because the delay/buy part allows you to essentially bypass the only 3 cards limitation.

[Honkeyfresh]

The more apt comparison is it's like non-terminal workshop with more potential upside. Sometimes you want such a thing, sometimes you don't.

I guess.  But I feel very similar about workshop and almost never get it unless there is huge engine draw and no buys/or & a 3/4 cost card like chariot race that you want to grab asap in a race.

[Honkeyfresh]

Swap would be a really strong counter to Looters, probably to the point of making Looter attacks counterproductive. Just Swap those Ruins for some good Action cards!

this is a card that seems only ok when you first look at it but really is amazing.  It does a great job of taking cards you once needed (moneylender/lookout/chapel/sea hag etc) into cards you then get to play in that same turn. The ability to turn any 2 cost action into a laboratory/mountebank and then play it that hand is just sick.

[GendoIkari]

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?

voyage is simply an awful card.  I wouldn't buy it at 2.  It's just fucking stupid.  It wants to be a chic outpost, but it's really an outhouse.

That's a strong opinion. Have you tried playing or playing against the card though?

It feels like Voyage will shine when you have other Durations. Use your Voyage turn to get 2-3 Durations into play, then just have a much better next turn.

[J Reggie]

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?

voyage is simply an awful card.  I wouldn't buy it at 2.  It's just fucking stupid.  It wants to be a chic outpost, but it's really an outhouse.

That's a strong opinion. Have you tried playing or playing against the card though?

It feels like Voyage will shine when you have other Durations. Use your Voyage turn to get 2-3 Durations into play, then just have a much better next turn.

This can also work the other way, say drawing a bunch of cards you can't play and then not getting your wharf draw on your next turn.

[spineflu]

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?

voyage is simply an awful card.  I wouldn't buy it at 2.  It's just fucking stupid.  It wants to be a chic outpost, but it's really an outhouse.

That's a strong opinion. Have you tried playing or playing against the card though?

It feels like Voyage will shine when you have other Durations. Use your Voyage turn to get 2-3 Durations into play, then just have a much better next turn.

or to completely defang your swamp hags if you aren't paying attention. either-or.

[GendoIkari]

So uh, on a Voyage turn, if I play three cards and two of them are Throne Rooms, what happens next? Does Voyage overrule Throne Room's instructions?

voyage is simply an awful card.  I wouldn't buy it at 2.  It's just fucking stupid.  It wants to be a chic outpost, but it's really an outhouse.

That's a strong opinion. Have you tried playing or playing against the card though?

It feels like Voyage will shine when you have other Durations. Use your Voyage turn to get 2-3 Durations into play, then just have a much better next turn.

This can also work the other way, say drawing a bunch of cards you can't play and then not getting your wharf draw on your next turn.

But this is a choice of how to play it. Don't play Voyage on the same turn you play a bunch of other Durations, obviously.

[grrgrrgrr]

Voyage is a really cool card with lots of interesting interactions. It is nice with gainers, it is nice with cards that give tokens, it is nice with stackable attacks and it works really well with Delay. Sure, the limitation to play cards, including treasures, can be off putting but once you are used to that, Voyage is a beauty.

(if you wanna rip on split piles, please go to the Wizzard pile.)

[m8ce]

When you play a Herb Gatherer, the chat log says "an Herb Gatherer" for some reason.

[mxdata]

When you play a Herb Gatherer, the chat log says "an Herb Gatherer" for some reason.

The programmers are American, I believe, and in North America, the older pronunciation with a silent h remains the norm, thus "an Herb Gatherer"

[mathdude]

Re: Distant Shore, Voyage, etc

Lab is a great engine component.  I'm glad to see a lab variant that you might not actually want in your engine.  It does have its benefits, but I think it's the interaction with other Odyssey's that make it work well.  You can use Sunken Treasure to gain it if you haven't played one yet.  And on top of that, getting Sunken Treasure(s) on a Voyage turn will let you very easily gain more Distant Shores.  But just don't get too many too early (unless you have Barons, Shepherds, etc.)

[m8ce]

When you play a Herb Gatherer, the chat log says "an Herb Gatherer" for some reason.

The programmers are American, I believe, and in North America, the older pronunciation with a silent h remains the norm, thus "an Herb Gatherer"

But Herbalist shows up as "a Herbalist"

[mxdata]

When you play a Herb Gatherer, the chat log says "an Herb Gatherer" for some reason.

The programmers are American, I believe, and in North America, the older pronunciation with a silent h remains the norm, thus "an Herb Gatherer"

But Herbalist shows up as "a Herbalist"

Hunh, that *is* odd. I've never noticed that before

[allanfieldhouse]

If the "H" word sounds like it starts with a vowel, use "an". If it sounds like a consonant, use "a".

An hour.
A hat.

[mxdata]

If the "H" word sounds like it starts with a vowel, use "an". If it sounds like a consonant, use "a".

An hour.
A hat.

I'm pretty sure we all know basic English. The issue is that for some speakers of English, "herb" starts with an h sound and for others it starts with a vowel sound. So some speakers have "a herb" and others have "an herb", the latter being the most common pronunciation in North America, while the former being common in most dialects outside of North America. It is peculiar that there's an inconsistency between Herb Gatherer and Herbalist. I guess those cards were programmed by people speaking different dialects of English

[allanfieldhouse]

Ah, I see -- the NA thing was about whether to pronounce the h in herb.

I disagree about the "we all know basic English" thing though. I see things like "an historical ..." all the time from major news organizations, etc.

[mxdata]

Ah, I see -- the NA thing was about whether to pronounce the h in herb.

I disagree about the "we all know basic English" thing though. I see things like "an historical ..." all the time from major news organizations, etc.

That's actually the *traditional* rule, forms like "a historical" are a more recent development. The older rule is that "an" is used before h followed by an *unstressed* vowel, as in "an historical" (but not "a history", because the stress there is on the first vowel), as in such contexts, the /h/ is very softly-pronounced, almost silent. It's a rule that seems to be dying out (unfortunately in my opinion - I think "a historical" sounds kinda ugly, but I recognize I'm in the minority there), but it's not quite dead yet

[allanfieldhouse]

Anyway...back to split piles. Man, if you get 3 of these new split piles in one game, that's a ton of extra cards to keep in mind simultaneously! It's not necessarily a new problem (eg Travelers), but it seems like this takes it to a new level.