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Author Topic: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing  (Read 1276 times)

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Xen3k

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Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« on: February 09, 2022, 06:59:44 pm »
+5

For the Week 28 I am going to challenge you all to design a card shaped thing that interacts with a mechanic I came up with back in Week 24: the Fish pile. This is a non-Supply pile (like Horses) of a mix of cards in a random order (like Ruins). Unlike any other pile it remains face-down and the Fish all can either remain in your deck or be returned to its pile for some effect. For tracking purposes there is a Pile Marker that I mocked up below. I also have the contents of the Fish pile below as well.

Fish Pile Marker


Fish Pile: 4 of each, total of 28 cards




Quote
Freshwater Eel - $2*
Action - Attack - Fish
+1 Coffers
You may return this to the bottom of its pile. If you do, choose one: Each other player gains a Curse; or +3 Villagers.
Otherwise, +1 Action.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Northern Pike - $2*
Action - Attack - Fish
+1 Action
You may return this to the bottom of its pile. If you do, +1 Card and each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
Otherwise, +1 Coffers.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
European Perch - $2*
Action - Attack - Fish
+1 Coffers
You may return this to the bottom of its pile. If you do, you may play an Action card from your hand twice.
Otherwise, +1 Action.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Brown Trout - $2*
Action - Attack - Fish
+1 Action
You may return this to the bottom of its pile. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Spoils.
Otherwise, +1 Coffers.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Atlantic Cod - $2*
Action - Attack - Fish
+1 Coffers
You may return this to the bottom of its pile. If you do, gain a card onto your deck costing up to $4.
Otherwise, +1 Action.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Atlantic Salmon - $2*
Action - Attack - Fish
+1 Action
You may return this to the bottom of its pile. If you do, +3 Cards, then discard 2 cards.
Otherwise, +1 Coffers.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Common Carp - $2*
Action - Attack - Fish
+1 Action
You may return this to the bottom of its pile. If you do, trash up to 2 cards from your hand, then +1 Card.
Otherwise, +1 Coffers.
(This is not in the Supply.)

The design challenge is to design a card shaped thing that interacts with the Fish pile in some way. You can add to, remove cards from, or completely revamp the Fish pile if you want. I just ask that you notate how you are modifying it and that you try to keep the spirit of the Fish pile intact. I welcome critiques of the pile/mechanic as currently designed, so if you have any I appreciate it. I want this to be as fun as possible, so if you want to use other fan mechanics, go for it. I just caution going overboard with mechanics when the Fish pile adds a fair amount of complexity already.

I will be judging based on my own preferences, but I will try to be as fair as I can. Factors I try to look at are simplicity of design, thought provoking design/mechanics, flavorful name/concept, and balance/playability. None of that is very distinct, but I don't really want to inhibit your designs and creativity.

I will try to give a 24 hour warning a week from right now and then close it the following day. It will be in the middle of a work week, so there may be some delays in judging, but I will try to have it out by the start of that weekend. Have fun!

Edit: I have a small update for this mechanic that is optional, but should address some concerns that may arise.

Quote
Shuffle the Fish
Landscape Card
When you gain this, reveal this and gain a Fish.
When you gain, Exile, reveal, or trash this, shuffle this into the Fish pile.

"Shuffle the Fish" is a landscape oriented card shuffled into the Fish pile. When it is gained, you first gain a Fish (to replace it) and then you shuffle it into the Fish pile. This should semi regularly randomize the Fish pile to prevent card counting or other possible concerns. There is a potential accountability issue as the player who gains this has to show he did and not actually put it into their deck, but that can't really be avoided. It may be a bit of a jank solution, but I hope this alleviates problems with the face down randomized pile characteristics.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 06:51:24 pm by Xen3k »
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Augie279

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2022, 05:25:58 pm »
+1



Basic discard-for-Fish to show something that can be done with them as a proof-of-concept.
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scolapasta

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2022, 05:45:26 pm »
+1

One thought on the mechanic -

The pile is face down, but when you play fish, you can (and will) return them to the bottom pile. While I don't know if it would actually matter in practice, this gives an advantage to people with good memory at some point to know what fish is next, and that doesn't sit quite right for me.

Maybe when returned they are face up (and can be looked at?) There still is a some advantage to experienced players who could know which fish had not yet been seen, but that aspect also does exist in the official cards with Boons and Hexes.
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2022, 07:29:08 pm »
0

One thought on the mechanic -

The pile is face down, but when you play fish, you can (and will) return them to the bottom pile. While I don't know if it would actually matter in practice, this gives an advantage to people with good memory at some point to know what fish is next, and that doesn't sit quite right for me.

Maybe when returned they are face up (and can be looked at?) There still is a some advantage to experienced players who could know which fish had not yet been seen, but that aspect also does exist in the official cards with Boons and Hexes.

That is a very good point. The cards I designed with this mechanic included a Heritage card (VP Heirloom) that everyone started with. When it was discarded you were able to look at the top 3 cards, gain one, and shuffle the rest back into the Fish pile. In the original design I had shuffling happen whenever a fish was returned, but it caused excessive shuffling in playtesting. Would it be beneficial to include the two cards in the OP as an example?
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nyxfulloftricks

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2022, 05:02:15 pm »
+3


Quote
School
Action - Reaction
$4
+1 Action
Gain 2 Fishes.
-
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand, to be unaffected by it.
Quote
Way of the Bear
Way
Gain 2 Fishes.

School will be my main entry for the week, but I also wanted to put up Way of the Bear as a simple interaction to gain Fish. Also quick fun fact, Fish is usually the plural of Fish. However, when discussing different species, such as those in the fish pile, the plural is Fishes!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 08:36:44 pm by nyxfulloftricks »
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spineflu

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2022, 01:49:46 pm »
+1


Quote
Sermon • $4 • Action
+1 Coffers
Each player gains a Fish (starting with you).

If you played a Fish this turn, +3 Cards.

Thematically doing sort of a "Feeding of the Multitude" thing. Coffers are the same as bread right? in that bakers give them?

The 'played a fish' bonus was going to be verbatim the text of Followers but that didn't seem quite right, and +2 cards only seemed too weak.


On the fish mechanic itself, I don't like that there's some that are soft terminals, or that terminality varies by fish.
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arowdok

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2022, 03:26:25 pm »
+2


Quote
Fishing Trip
$4
Action
Return up to two Fishes from your hand to the bottom their pile. If you returned two Fishes, gain a gold and +3%. Otherwise, gain three Fishes.

This gains lots of Fishes and has a mini quest line to complete if the player would prefer basically a mega Harem instead of smelly Fish.
Rules Note: This card does NOT care about the different names of Fishes just the quantity of cards returned that have the Fish type.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2022, 01:20:34 pm »
+1

My Submission:


Quote from: Fishing Boat
Fishing Boat • $2 • Action
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it into your hand. If it's an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, gain a Fish
Victory card, gain 2 Fish
Fish card, +1 Card

A simple, single-card virtual drawer. If it finds an Action card it becomes a cantrip. Otherwise (unless it finds a Night card, Hovel, or fan card without one of the 3 main types) it gains a Fish. If you collide it with a Fish cards, it turns into a Lab.

Because it's not a guaranteed cantrip it is difficult to have too many of these (absent a plentiful source of +Actions), so you aren't likely to have many Fish. And if the Action cards are too plentiful, it loses its Fish-gaining ability. But putting 1 or 2 of them into your deck gets you a Fish or 2 per shuffle, while the +Action prevents accidentally drawing an Action card dead.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Xen3k

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2022, 05:15:13 pm »
+1

24 Hour Warning
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2022, 05:39:59 pm »
+1

Edit: I have a small update for this mechanic that is optional, but should address some concerns that may arise.

Quote
Shuffle the Fish
Landscape Card
When you gain this, reveal this and gain a Fish.
When you gain, Exile, reveal, or trash this, shuffle this into the Fish pile.

"Shuffle the Fish" is a landscape oriented card shuffled into the Fish pile. When it is gained, you first gain a Fish (to replace it) and then you shuffle it into the Fish pile. This should semi regularly randomize the Fish pile to prevent card counting or other possible concerns. There is a potential accountability issue as the player who gains this has to show he did and not actually put it into their deck, but that can't really be avoided. It may be a bit of a jank solution, but I hope this alleviates problems with the face down randomized pile characteristics.

I would like to offer a slightly different take on this:



I'd suggest that at the start of the game, this is placed face-up and horizontally aligned (i.e. perpendicular to the cards in the pile, and sticking out of the sides) at the bottom of the Fish pile. When Fish are returned to the pile, they go under the Shuffle the Fish landscape. When the last Fish comes off the pile, any Fish that have been returned are shuffled, and Shuffle the Fish goes back to the bottom. If the shuffled Fish are all taken, the process repeats.

This solves the card-counting issue. It also ensures that all 28 Fish have been taken before the shuffle occurs, which reduces statistical cluttering and keeps the number of shuffles to a bare minimum. It also resolves the accountability problem, both against intentional misfeasance and accidental (there may be some designs were a player would get 2 Fish, not care what they are because they are planning to use them to trigger some effect in the design, forget that it might be a StF, and just put both into their discard pile).

There is some capacity to time/game the shuffle (e.g. by holding back using a particularly strong Fish's one-shot until after a shuffle has been triggered), but I think that is reasonably comparable to things that already happen in the game (e.g. timing the shuffle of your own deck; holding Encampment so you can get to Plunder) and a reasonable part of the game's strategy.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Xen3k

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2022, 06:00:05 pm »
0

Edit: I have a small update for this mechanic that is optional, but should address some concerns that may arise.

Quote
Shuffle the Fish
Landscape Card
When you gain this, reveal this and gain a Fish.
When you gain, Exile, reveal, or trash this, shuffle this into the Fish pile.

"Shuffle the Fish" is a landscape oriented card shuffled into the Fish pile. When it is gained, you first gain a Fish (to replace it) and then you shuffle it into the Fish pile. This should semi regularly randomize the Fish pile to prevent card counting or other possible concerns. There is a potential accountability issue as the player who gains this has to show he did and not actually put it into their deck, but that can't really be avoided. It may be a bit of a jank solution, but I hope this alleviates problems with the face down randomized pile characteristics.

I would like to offer a slightly different take on this:



I'd suggest that at the start of the game, this is placed face-up and horizontally aligned (i.e. perpendicular to the cards in the pile, and sticking out of the sides) at the bottom of the Fish pile. When Fish are returned to the pile, they go under the Shuffle the Fish landscape. When the last Fish comes off the pile, any Fish that have been returned are shuffled, and Shuffle the Fish goes back to the bottom. If the shuffled Fish are all taken, the process repeats.

This solves the card-counting issue. It also ensures that all 28 Fish have been taken before the shuffle occurs, which reduces statistical cluttering and keeps the number of shuffles to a bare minimum. It also resolves the accountability problem, both against intentional misfeasance and accidental (there may be some designs were a player would get 2 Fish, not care what they are because they are planning to use them to trigger some effect in the design, forget that it might be a StF, and just put both into their discard pile).

There is some capacity to time/game the shuffle (e.g. by holding back using a particularly strong Fish's one-shot until after a shuffle has been triggered), but I think that is reasonably comparable to things that already happen in the game (e.g. timing the shuffle of your own deck; holding Encampment so you can get to Plunder) and a reasonable part of the game's strategy.

I do like how this design can be folded into the Fish Pile Marker, reduces shuffling, and it would ensure there are no mistakes with when to shuffle. It would limit the design space a tad as there would be no easy way to shuffle fish into the pile before exhausting the pile entirely. This would almost act as a designated Fish discard pile that would be shuffled to make a new Fish pile when it is exhausted.

I will take this design into consideration for what I use for the "official" Fish mechanic, but I encourage anyone who designs a card for this challenge, or cares to use this mechanic for their own game group, to use the reshuffle mechanic they prefer. Just let me know in your design if you want to use a modified version of what I currently have in the OP. Thanks!
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2022, 05:20:42 pm »
+1

-Submissions Closed-

Entries
arowdok - Fishing Trip
Augie279 - Fishing Net
emtzalex - Fishing Boat
nyxfulloftricks - School
spineflu - Sermon

There appears to be 5 entries, so it shouldn't take too long to get my feedback and judging completed. I will try and have it posted later tonight, or tomorrow at the latest.
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2022, 11:05:04 pm »
+1

Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
Thank you to everyone who participated in this design challenge. I greatly appreciate your feedback and ideas! I plan to work on this mechanic more and take everything you have shared into account when doing so. I hope you all enjoyed yourselves!
Without further delay.

Results

Fishing Trip by arowdok
Quote
Fishing Trip - $4
Action
Return up to two Fishes from your hand to the bottom their pile. If you returned two Fishes, gain a gold and +3VP. Otherwise, gain three Fishes.
I really like how this card uses the mechanic. I have not tested gaining a large quantity of Fish, and this card would allow it, even if terminally. I like that it incentivizes keeping Fish in your deck. I am unsure if the VP gain would be excessive or not, but this is definitely a design I want to playtest.

Fishing Net by Augie279
Quote
Fishing Net - $4
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards from your hand. gain a Fish from the Fish pile per card discarded.
This can gain you a good number of Fish and makes use of otherwise dead cards. I think this may be a good card for me to use to better evaluate the power level of various Fish. Other than that it is fairly basic, as you mentioned.

Fishing Boat by emtzalex
Quote
Fishing Boat - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it into your hand. If it's an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, gain a Fish
Victory card, gain 2 Fish
Fish card, +1 Card
A really cheap Ironmonger-like card. I like that it encourages keeping Fish in your deck. The fact that there is a chance it will be a terminal +1 Card will feel bad at times, especially if there are Curses floating around, but the fact it costs only $2 makes this reasonable in my opinion. Very nice.

School by nyxfulloftricks
Quote
School - $4
Action - Reaction
+1 Action
Gain 2 Fishes.
----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand, to be unaffected by it.
A really cool Moat variant. I like moat as a utility $2 cost card, and this has great flavor in name and picture. I am unsure how appealing a non-terminal Fish gainer would be at this cost, but I would happily try it out. I may try something to reduce its cost, like change the Fish gain to a single Fish out of the top 3 from the pile or something, but that may be an excessive amount of text to go with the Moat text. Great idea for a card!

Sermon by spineflu
Quote
Sermon - $4
Action
+1 Coffers
Each player gains a Fish (starting with you).
If you played a Fish this turn, +3 Cards.
This is really good flavor. I like that it incentivizes you to keep Fish in your deck. I am not sure if giving Fish to everyone, even though very appropriate for the concept, would make this an appealing card. The card draw seems to be the real reward of the card, but it may be too slow to make it worthwhile unless other players choose to buy Sermon. I do want to playtest this to see what my game group thinks. Really cool design.


Runner-Up
Fishing Trip by arowdok

Winner
Fishing Boat by emtzalex
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 28: Gone Fishing
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2022, 01:39:38 am »
+2

Fishing Boat by emtzalex
Quote
Fishing Boat - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it into your hand. If it's an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, gain a Fish
Victory card, gain 2 Fish
Fish card, +1 Card
A really cheap Ironmonger-like card. I like that it encourages keeping Fish in your deck. The fact that there is a chance it will be a terminal +1 Card will feel bad at times, especially if there are Curses floating around, but the fact it costs only $2 makes this reasonable in my opinion. Very nice.

Winner
Fishing Boat by emtzalex

Thanks Xen3k! I will try to post the next contest some time tomorrow.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.
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