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Author Topic: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Game Over)  (Read 107373 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #800 on: March 02, 2022, 11:34:27 am »

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

insurance was a joke. I was saying, if you want to know my reason for voting math, you have to keep me alive into day 2.

As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #801 on: March 02, 2022, 11:36:21 am »

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

insurance was a joke. I was saying, if you want to know my reason for voting math, you have to keep me alive into day 2.

As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.
I thought you had given up trying to read Didds day 1, which is why I asked.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #802 on: March 02, 2022, 12:07:31 pm »

I’m en route and getting caught up.

Swowl, weird that you think I’m not usually a fan of EAL (LAL), but that just means that you’re not paying super close attention to my D1s. Lurking is perhaps the only think I find overtly scummy. That is often where I vote.



I thought that, too

I have no idea who I am getting mixed up in my head with you in regards to day 1 reads... but yeah... super quick skimmed a few games and obviously (as you know, bc you're you)... you are correct.
but now you got me on a tangent trying to figure out who it is I was mixing you up with, dammit

This is a bit weird, given how Didds and Swowl talk about their relationship.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #803 on: March 02, 2022, 12:08:24 pm »

Quote fail:

EFHW: I thought that, too. I’d have guessed he knows me better.
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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #804 on: March 02, 2022, 12:11:36 pm »

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

insurance was a joke. I was saying, if you want to know my reason for voting math, you have to keep me alive into day 2.

As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.
I thought you had given up trying to read Didds day 1, which is why I asked.

Well, I guess I gave up prematurely.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #805 on: March 02, 2022, 12:22:47 pm »

scola is definitely my top choice of exile, then joth, then math. As in, I would change my vote to joth to stop math from being exiled.

I think we are at math 4, joth 3, scola 3, with infangthief voting alone?
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #806 on: March 02, 2022, 12:38:23 pm »

I would vote for Joth or Scola

I’m okay with math or MiX

I’m not going to vote for EFHW, e, or Galz today
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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #807 on: March 02, 2022, 12:42:48 pm »

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?
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gkrieg13

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #808 on: March 02, 2022, 01:16:18 pm »

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

You can iso him faster than I can compile the case.
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scolapasta

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #809 on: March 02, 2022, 01:33:31 pm »

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

You can iso him faster than I can compile the case.

In other words you don't actually have a case against me.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #810 on: March 02, 2022, 01:41:20 pm »

He has 23 posts so far this game. Other than 4 jokey posts, he has

  • 1 post asking a question of who people read well D1,
  • 7 posts D1 saying that he is lurking, but that it isn't anti-town this game because of plurality exile, or various comments on his lurking,
  • 0 votes D1,
  • 1 post saying he would vote for WCD, based on "today's posts", but not voting, which helped cause the WCD wagon to stall
  • 9 posts D2 saying that he is lurking, but that it isn't anti-town this game because of plurality exile, or various comments on his lurking, including comments about how he is waiting to get to something meaningful D1, but isn't expecting anything (almost like if people don't try to interact at all, there isn't anything to analyze...),
  • 1 reads list, where he says that nothing meaningful came out of D1, as he expected... With ABSOLUTELY no information. Also with a scummy vote for joth.

His entire game is a mix of not contributing and complaining that nothing useful has happened.

I would be fine with it, except that he has spent more time explaining why he doesn't need to vote, because of plurality voting (which is not the mentality a VT has), than anything else. His only vote so far has been for joth with scummy reasoning. This is all coupled with my reasoning that I suspect all the wagons D1 were town, so scum was incentivized to back off and just let the exile happen (which is why plurality exile can be good for scum as well as town), because they did not care who got exiled, and there was no reason to ensure a majority-misexile happened.

His reads list is:
town: fang
scum: mathdude, MiX, WCD, joth, gkrieg, galz, EFHW, and Swowl
hasn't played enough with: e.
Scum loves to leave options open, and fang is one person that at this point is very likely to not be exiled.
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #811 on: March 02, 2022, 01:43:07 pm »

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

You can iso him faster than I can compile the case.

In other words you don't actually have a case against me.

The beauty of lurking
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #812 on: March 02, 2022, 01:43:40 pm »

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

For me, it is the absence of anything towny coupled with the consistent claim that he is reading and keeping up but that he didn't have anything to say. That could also be read as its better to be not say anything than to get in hot water.  I'd sure as heck have an easier go of it if I didn't actually said what I think, but I think it helps town to actually let people into your thoughts. The only people really in danger when they do that are scum.
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scolapasta

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #813 on: March 02, 2022, 01:53:01 pm »

He has 23 posts so far this game. Other than 4 jokey posts, he has

  • 1 post asking a question of who people read well D1,
  • 7 posts D1 saying that he is lurking, but that it isn't anti-town this game because of plurality exile, or various comments on his lurking,
  • 0 votes D1,
  • 1 post saying he would vote for WCD, based on "today's posts", but not voting, which helped cause the WCD wagon to stall
  • 9 posts D2 saying that he is lurking, but that it isn't anti-town this game because of plurality exile, or various comments on his lurking, including comments about how he is waiting to get to something meaningful D1, but isn't expecting anything (almost like if people don't try to interact at all, there isn't anything to analyze...),
  • 1 reads list, where he says that nothing meaningful came out of D1, as he expected... With ABSOLUTELY no information. Also with a scummy vote for joth.

His entire game is a mix of not contributing and complaining that nothing useful has happened.

I would be fine with it, except that he has spent more time explaining why he doesn't need to vote, because of plurality voting (which is not the mentality a VT has), than anything else. His only vote so far has been for joth with scummy reasoning. This is all coupled with my reasoning that I suspect all the wagons D1 were town, so scum was incentivized to back off and just let the exile happen (which is why plurality exile can be good for scum as well as town), because they did not care who got exiled, and there was no reason to ensure a majority-misexile happened.

His reads list is:
town: fang
scum: mathdude, MiX, WCD, joth, gkrieg, galz, EFHW, and Swowl
hasn't played enough with: e.
Scum loves to leave options open, and fang is one person that at this point is very likely to not be exiled.

Why is not having to vote due to plurality not a VT mentality in your opinion? The whole point is that having plurality means we don't risk no exile. And that would be a major reason to vote when we near deadline, to avoid no exile. Without that risk, voting vs non voting doesn't make much of a difference, imo, when I didn't feel I had any good read of one person vs another. (especially those who were the top vote getters)

Yes, voting helps other decide whether they think I'm town or not, but again, when not having a much of an idea, I don't think my having placed a vote would be useful there.

So I stand by not my not voting D1.

And I also stand by the fact that people here like to infer a lot from interactions in a way that's not as useful as they think they are.

I also think you're completely misinterpreting my read list. And putting way to many people as "scum". Which goes back to my first point - I've learned that just because the way someone posts seems "scummy" to me hasn't always had a good correlation to being scum. SO I'm hoping for more concrete thoughts, and still nto finding then in my D1 reread.

Why do you say my vote for joth is scummy?
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EFHW

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #814 on: March 02, 2022, 01:54:43 pm »

joth, could you take a look at #781 please.
What's insurance, and why were you thinking Didds might be scum on D1?

...
As for Didds, the cases that I found convincing in the moment were Galzria's and e's, but that was building on me already scumreading Didds day 1 based on mostly a gut read. So it was kind of all piling up.
This reads scummy to me, joth. Galz's case saw what he wanted to see. e's case is that she was around at EOD1. And you feel those are convincing, plus you have a non-specific gut read. It seems like you don't have any scumreads at all if this is the strongest one.

vote: Joth
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scolapasta

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #815 on: March 02, 2022, 01:58:24 pm »

Anyone want to link me to/quickly summarize the case against scolapasta?

For me, it is the absence of anything towny coupled with the consistent claim that he is reading and keeping up but that he didn't have anything to say. That could also be read as its better to be not say anything than to get in hot water.  I'd sure as heck have an easier go of it if I didn't actually said what I think, but I think it helps town to actually let people into your thoughts. The only people really in danger when they do that are scum.

"absence of anything towny" - what does that even mean really? Especially considering everyone is trying to be "towny".

It's true I don't have much to say this game. Partially because I've been more busy with other things than expected, but also because I am finding this game a little more challenging to others. If you look back at past games I've played, my posts are usually much more about trying to help "solve" things (e.g. Groundhog's day). But this game, on D1 had nothing to solve. D2 is better, because we now know Dylan and faust were town. Which is why I'm focused on trying to reread D1 with that in mind, when I have the time). But even with that knowledge, it's not super easy.
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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #816 on: March 02, 2022, 02:08:27 pm »

Yeah, the scola case is a nothingburger. Quell surprise.

As is the case on me. We are taking the easy route on exiles of unhelpful players. But unhelpful =/= scummy. You're going to find scum among the "helpful" players, helpfully leading us down the wrong path.

I have been pretty disengaged with this game today, and I'll cop to that. I'm following along, but I've been too busy IRL to really re-read and scrutinize and form reads. Instead, I decided to form some early reads and commit to them. For a minute, it looked like that would actually be a useful strategy.

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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #817 on: March 02, 2022, 02:10:22 pm »

If I can I will take some time tonight to try to make a more substantive contribution. But it's Ash Wednesday and my work day is crazy busy, so I may not get to it.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #818 on: March 02, 2022, 02:23:15 pm »

--snip--

Why is not having to vote due to plurality not a VT mentality in your opinion? The whole point is that having plurality means we don't risk no exile. And that would be a major reason to vote when we near deadline, to avoid no exile. Without that risk, voting vs non voting doesn't make much of a difference, imo, when I didn't feel I had any good read of one person vs another. (especially those who were the top vote getters)

Yes, voting helps other decide whether they think I'm town or not, but again, when not having a much of an idea, I don't think my having placed a vote would be useful there.

So I stand by not my not voting D1.

And I also stand by the fact that people here like to infer a lot from interactions in a way that's not as useful as they think they are.

I also think you're completely misinterpreting my read list. And putting way to many people as "scum". Which goes back to my first point - I've learned that just because the way someone posts seems "scummy" to me hasn't always had a good correlation to being scum. SO I'm hoping for more concrete thoughts, and still nto finding then in my D1 reread.

Why do you say my vote for joth is scummy?

When you are a VT, it is commonly put in your role description that "your vote is your only weapon", so refusing to use your vote to influence the game is at the very least as anti-town as you can get as a VT, if not scummy. Scum has even more influence when you don't vote.

D1, you literally could have decided the exile by voting. Like if you had voted, we may have exiled scum.

I agree that people infer a lot from interactions that may not be useful, but that is kind of the game. Not voting and not hunting for scummy interactions is not playing the game as VT.

How am I misinterpreting your reads list?

Man, D1 was long - I'm maybe half way through.

Not seeing anything substantial, which I expected, but if people want my gut feels as of now:
I think fang is likely town.
I always scumread mathdude and Mix (and faust for that matter).
Still feel WCD is scummy, but that's happened before when she's town.
Will add joth, gkrieg, and Galz to that list.
I usually find EFHW and swowl to that list. And haven't played enough with e.

So have to pause for now, but I'll go ahead and throw my vote for now:

Vote: joth

I'm sure people want to knw why specifically, but not sure I can explain it? Just something...

And yeah, realizing now that it's his birthday (happy birthday, joth, glooble, and mathdude) but still feels like the best vote right now.

Are you doing anything good for your birthday?

Do you still feel like joth is the best vote, considering he is on the edge of being exiled?
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gkrieg13

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #819 on: March 02, 2022, 02:28:08 pm »

Yeah, the scola case is a nothingburger. Quell surprise.

As is the case on me. We are taking the easy route on exiles of unhelpful players. But unhelpful =/= scummy. You're going to find scum among the "helpful" players, helpfully leading us down the wrong path.

--snip--

I hate that term.

I have shown that scola is not just being unhelpful, but actually anti-town. He also fits the narrative of scum sitting back D1, because the wagons were all town. It seems like you agree that the wagons were all town D1, so do you not follow my logic to the next step?
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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #820 on: March 02, 2022, 02:38:29 pm »

I don't agree that the wagons were all town. At least, I don't see any compelling reason to believe that over the alternative.

My thesis is that scum tends to be more engaged in the game than average, not less. They know they're important and even if there's no immediate need to do anything, because the town is doing a good job funding a misexile on its own, scum still has work to do day 1 to lay the groundwork for future days, position themselves as being on the right wagons, etc.

As for this:

His reads list is:
town: fang
scum: mathdude, MiX, WCD, joth, gkrieg, galz, EFHW, and Swowl
hasn't played enough with: e.
Scum loves to leave options open, and fang is one person that at this point is very likely to not be exiled.

No way scum is that obvious. Scum is putting a lot of thought into their reads list to make sure it's plausible, consistent, and unremarkable. This is the reads list of a town player who has no idea what's going on.
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #821 on: March 02, 2022, 03:02:46 pm »

vote: jotheonah That's X-1.

(By the way, last official vote count shows that there is no active double-voter today.)
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #822 on: March 02, 2022, 03:09:36 pm »

Exiling joth here is like killing the sane person in a murder mystery. Well, I'm sure I had a better analogy when I started this sentence, but not anymore.

What's a better thing to say...it's like if there's two people arguing, and a third person tells them to chill out, and then they both start attacking said third person. It just doesn't make sense. Of course joth can be scum here, but there's absolutely no reason to think that given his posts this game.
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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #823 on: March 02, 2022, 03:11:28 pm »

idk why but I'm very tempted to pull a Morgrim and hammer here.
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #824 on: March 02, 2022, 03:23:58 pm »

So many better options.

I feel bad having been very inactive here the last few days.

Let's go back to one of my earlier reads.

Vote: gkrieg

His recent posts have felt off to me
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