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Author Topic: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Game Over)  (Read 107324 times)

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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #725 on: February 28, 2022, 08:53:06 am »

This post should hit a page-top (assuming you're using 25-posts-per-page setting). So it seems like a good place to say:

Please everyone make sure you understand how voting ties are being resolved in this game. This is really important, so scum can't hide behind "oh I didn't realise X was going to be exiled" etc.

Please make sure you understand J Reggie's clarification at #368.

Actually, I can quote it again here:

6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

Could you confirm if this is exactly what you mean?
Suppose A has 5 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves off A so that they've got 4 each. B gets exiled because they've been on 4 for longer?
Suppose A has 6 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves from A to B so that they've got 5 each. They both hit 5 votes at exactly the same moment. Who gets exiled?

In other games I've seen majority exile tiebreaking done in favour of the player who was most recently in the lead.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. For your first example, your assumption is correct. For the second example, I will consider a player switching votes to have an implied unvote in between, so A would be exiled.

(I realized when setting up the vote count spreadsheet that the way you said would be simpler and more intuitive. I'm not changing it in the middle of the game though.)

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #726 on: February 28, 2022, 09:25:34 am »

I forgot to say last night that I would also vote for Scola, but rereading Joth this morning makes me feel better about that vote.
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classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #727 on: February 28, 2022, 09:50:59 am »

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.


Laziness is a town tell. If I were scum I would be working way harder.
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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #728 on: February 28, 2022, 09:57:29 am »

I think people are misreading my frustration about the Didds wagon. And the e wagon day 1 for that matter. It's sort of a general frustration.

It seems like in this game, or maybe just in this community, wagons just stall out. And they don't really stall out for a reason. The person doesn't do something especially towny and a strong competing wagon doesn't emerge. People just sort of say "well, this wagon hasn't gone anywhere for a while, better try something else". Which is insane because stalling out is exactly what you would expect a wagon on scum to do! Because three members of the town are trying not to vote for it.

On day 1, faust literally said something like this about the e wagon. I'll go find it.

faust, what do you think about the wagon on e?
It feels quite outdated. The last change to that wagon was what, over 100 posts ago, which is basically half the game. It's the sort of wagon with just enough justification so that people hang on to it so they can avoid further scumhunting.

This is pretty silly. People don't become less scummy because time goes by.
Well that's certainly an opinion. I would say that if a player has behaved scummily for time T and then hasn't behaved scummily between times T and 2T, they are less scummy at time 2T then they were at time T. But maybe you wish to enlighten me about the recent scummy things that e has done.

And I guess I'm just still not over this exchange, even though faust is no longer here to have it with me. Why do we let wagons just die?

When I say "why haven't we exiled Didds yet?" I really mean it. Why haven't we? What's changed? Are people really townreading Didds now and if so why? Is there someone else who is really scummy?

Because I tell you what, when I am scum, this phenomenon is my favorite thing in the world. It makes it so easy to get out of being exiled. Just wave something shiny and distract people for a few pages and you're home free.
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J Reggie

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #729 on: February 28, 2022, 10:02:06 am »

Vote Count 2.2
The Pangea Software game Nanosaur 2: Hatchling was released in 2004 for Windows and Mac and bundled with many Macintosh machines.
mathdude (3) : infangthief, EFHW, Galzria
WestCoastDidds (2) : jotheonah, mathdude
scolapasta (2) : gkrieg13, MiX
Swowl (1) : 2.71828.....
jotheonah (1) : WestCoastDidds
 
Not voting (2) : scolapasta, Swowl
 
Currently, mathdude is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at March 03, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

Scolapasta has been prodded.

MiX

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #730 on: February 28, 2022, 10:03:24 am »

We haven't exiled Didds SoD2 because if we had, when she flipped town we would have no information. Also, there is opposition, even if weak, like mine.
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jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #731 on: February 28, 2022, 10:27:27 am »

We haven't exiled Didds SoD2 because if we had, when she flipped town we would have no information. Also, there is opposition, even if weak, like mine.

There would be so much information.
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scolapasta

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #732 on: February 28, 2022, 11:40:50 am »


prod request: scola

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I mean, I did say I was mostly unavailable over weekend. anyway, back to normal schedule now. So should be able to post somewhat more.
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J Reggie

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #733 on: February 28, 2022, 11:47:14 am »


prod request: scola

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I mean, I did say I was mostly unavailable over weekend. anyway, back to normal schedule now. So should be able to post somewhat more.

If you think you will be unable to post, please specify that you will be V/LA. There's a difference, at least to me, between being unable to post "too much" and simply not posting.

scolapasta

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #734 on: February 28, 2022, 11:57:19 am »


prod request: scola

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I mean, I did say I was mostly unavailable over weekend. anyway, back to normal schedule now. So should be able to post somewhat more.

If you think you will be unable to post, please specify that you will be V/LA. There's a difference, at least to me, between being unable to post "too much" and simply not posting.

Sorry about that. For me, in this ever connected world, I see less of a distinction. I always have at least some device with me, so try to read what's going on, but posting is more challenging. (as is reading and trying to actually follow threads). I also didn't know my exact plans for the week, just that I wouldn't be working. But yeah, in retrospect, I should've just said VLA for this past week.
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EFHW

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #735 on: February 28, 2022, 01:45:16 pm »

I iso'd Didds and I will not be voting for her today. If she's scum, I can't see it. Galz's case was based on the EOD1 voting, but didn't consider alternate explanations, just the ones that looked bad. FOS on people pushing her exile.
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EFHW

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #736 on: February 28, 2022, 01:49:12 pm »

This means that Galzria, joth and math are on my would-exile list. But I want to look at Swowl, too. I feel like he hasn't gotten any attention and some scrutiny on him would be helpful.
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Swowl

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #737 on: February 28, 2022, 04:16:29 pm »

 weekend got away from me. will catch up today!
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
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mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #738 on: February 28, 2022, 04:50:03 pm »

I'm still around. I've skimmed all posts since I last posted. Hope to go back to fully read and reply later tonight. Might not happen until tomorrow though.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #739 on: February 28, 2022, 06:31:57 pm »

This means that Galzria, joth and math are on my would-exile list. But I want to look at Swowl, too. I feel like he hasn't gotten any attention and some scrutiny on him would be helpful.

What do you think of scola? I also need to go back and reread Swowl, I don't remember much from him.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #740 on: February 28, 2022, 06:34:59 pm »

Scola has literally not voted yet this entire game, and has really only said that he would vote for WCD.
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Swowl

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #741 on: February 28, 2022, 08:21:55 pm »

This post should hit a page-top (assuming you're using 25-posts-per-page setting). So it seems like a good place to say:

Please everyone make sure you understand how voting ties are being resolved in this game. This is really important, so scum can't hide behind "oh I didn't realise X was going to be exiled" etc.

Please make sure you understand J Reggie's clarification at #368.

Actually, I can quote it again here:

6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

Could you confirm if this is exactly what you mean?
Suppose A has 5 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves off A so that they've got 4 each. B gets exiled because they've been on 4 for longer?
Suppose A has 6 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves from A to B so that they've got 5 each. They both hit 5 votes at exactly the same moment. Who gets exiled?

In other games I've seen majority exile tiebreaking done in favour of the player who was most recently in the lead.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. For your first example, your assumption is correct. For the second example, I will consider a player switching votes to have an implied unvote in between, so A would be exiled.

(I realized when setting up the vote count spreadsheet that the way you said would be simpler and more intuitive. I'm not changing it in the middle of the game though.)


Interesting. Also to add to that so it cannot be claimed as "I didn't know" later...
It would then appear that if A and B were both tied at X-votes, if A was going to be exiled, someone could simply unvote A then revote them... in which case B would be exiled instead?
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Swowl

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #742 on: February 28, 2022, 08:29:03 pm »

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

if you are in the mindset of more info is needed to get a grip on the game... how do you land on scola?
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #743 on: February 28, 2022, 08:36:32 pm »

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

Why fang and GK?
They could answer first, if they haven't already (catching up) just seems like a weird pairing.
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #744 on: February 28, 2022, 09:11:37 pm »

The thing I don't get about the Didds + e theory is why would Didds even move away from the Dylan wagon (to scolapasta) in that case.

Dylan was on 5 (including Didds), e on 2 (Dylan and Galzria) and mathdude on 4.
Both joth and I had said we were prepared to move from mathdude to e (at #415 and #434). So Didds moving off Dylan at #438 seems an unnecessary risk if e is her partner.

That bit through there is at least worth a reread.

So... I agree with you, but also because of the plurality thing - the risk is kind of negated. Since there was enough time, obviously, to move back.
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #745 on: February 28, 2022, 09:16:28 pm »

im still at Vote:Math
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Swowl

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #746 on: February 28, 2022, 09:17:59 pm »

ill get some more thoughts out after dinner is done.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #747 on: March 01, 2022, 02:40:34 am »

It's catch-up time again!

Unvote

Won’t have much time to get to this until Monday. Still chewing over my thoughts on WCD. [Fang, Joth, Scola, e, MiX, math] are the others outside of WCD that I’m feeling off feelings for due to one thing or another. I know that list is pretty big, but it leaves EFHW, Swowl & Gkrieg as being more townie than not to me right now, and that’s at least something for me to help calibrate.

This is a great non-list of potential scum!  (At least you do admit that, and note that it's mostly just saying your 3 town-reads).

I have no idea how useful or accurate my own reads are.  And so the only useful data points for me so far this game are how people are reading me (and obviously flips, people's previous reads on them and votes for them... okay, so I guess I mean the data points I'm looking at currently, and the present time in the game, while still being aware of these past things).

fang has probably expressed the most consistent scum-read of me this game, and he's not on your "safe list"... but EFHW and Swowl have recently expressed similar thoughts (I don't remember where they were D1).  gkrieg on the other hand has continuously stated he is town-reading me, with varying levels of confidence.  So of the 3 you trust, 2 think I'm most likely scum and 1 thinks I'm most likely not.

From my perspective, this means EFHW and Swowl (and then also fang) are either mistaken, or think I'm an easy enough misexile (not saying partners... some could be one and some in the other category).  And gkrieg is either correct in his read, or he's scum and this read is just part of his play.  Confirmation bias comes into play for sure here, but I am tending to trust gkrieg's other reads more at this point, and am not putting much weight into the reads from the others (in reference to the influence they have on my own reads of people).

I know I've taken Galz's post on a bit of a tangent in the reply.  But the "safe names" really stuck out to me, and then the diarrhea of tangents of thoughts that it started just got typed out as they came!
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mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #748 on: March 01, 2022, 02:42:00 am »

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I’ve got a good feeling about him. Seems pretty towny.

I do appreciate that you put in your 2 cents here.  Thanks!

I'm not sure how much I trust you at the moment though.  So I don't know if your opinion will influence me that much.
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mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #749 on: March 01, 2022, 02:48:30 am »

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

Other than the post a few before this quoted one, I don't see that you really mention joth - so I'm not sure what this "elaboration" is, unless it was just that other post.  And if that's the case, you seem to contradict yourself - if e is scum, then potential partner joth made an expert move to ensure Dylan's exile.  But then you say you don't think joth thinks about those things.  And now you say there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

So basically, I'm completely not following your train of thoughts here.
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