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[jotheonah]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I’ve got a good feeling about him. Seems pretty towny.

[gkrieg13]

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:

• Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
• Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

Looks like a helpful summary.

Couple of questions:
In what sense are you using "expertly" for joth's move? Expertly good play or expert scum play?
When you say "it looked more like e is town", do you mean just considering the options you went through above, or some other reason?

I'm saying it would be expert scum play from joth, depending on potential partners, but something that I don't think joth thinks about.

Based on what I said above, and how the end of the day looked, it points to e being town.

[gkrieg13]

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

I was noticing a stalling a bit too.  Is that just a weekend thing?  Maybe someone can say something controversial so we can get a good discussion going again?

It might also be stalling because the main wagon (WCD) has stalled, but there are people calling her scummy but not voting for her, so people on the wagon do not want to leave it, but people not on the wagon are not joining it because they don't want it to get any closer to exile, even though at this point she is X-3...

[gkrieg13]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

I think I already elaborated a little, I think there are certain partnerships where scum!joth doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, pretty neutral.

[gkrieg13]

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.

What are your thoughts on joth?

[infangthief]

I'm caught up now, I think.

Didds, why did you ask me about e at end of day 1. I'll go find the quote...

Fang, do you have strong e feelings?

And also you asked MiX.

What was behind these questions?

[infangthief]

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:

• Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
• Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

Looks like a helpful summary.

Couple of questions:
In what sense are you using "expertly" for joth's move? Expertly good play or expert scum play?
When you say "it looked more like e is town", do you mean just considering the options you went through above, or some other reason?

I'm saying it would be expert scum play from joth, depending on potential partners, but something that I don't think joth thinks about.

Based on what I said above, and how the end of the day looked, it points to e being town.

Ok. Can we take things a bit further by seeing how "if mathdude is scum" changes your first list:

If e is town:

• Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If mathdude is scum then I think this becomes:

• Scum has a big reason to see one of those exiles happen, so I would expect them to be on one of those wagons.
  

Your second list also changes if mathdude is scum (as well as e), but at this point we'd be hunting for the 3rd scum, which is maybe a bit far-fetched.

[jotheonah]

I think we're just stalled because we got to Didds really quickly and people hate to end the day quickly because they want days to be as long as possible so that end of the day re-reads are as terrible as possible. But now I think enough time has passed that people who still think Didds is scummy should vote for Didds.

[infangthief]

I do think scum!WCD is willing to save her partner scum!e, like she did.

What does this mean?

It looks to me like you are saying that you think WCD and e are both scum. But elsewhere you are saying that you think e is likely town, and that people who think WCD is scum should be voting for her, which you're not.

Am I missing something?

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm caught up now, I think.

Didds, why did you ask me about e at end of day 1. I'll go find the quote...

Fang, do you have strong e feelings?

And also you asked MiX.

What was behind these questions?

I was wondering why people who were not Joth were on the e wagon and how stongly they felt about it. I had some towny feelings about Dylan by that point, so I was open to listening but no one had anything convincing to say.

[infangthief]

I think we're just stalled because we got to Didds really quickly and people hate to end the day quickly because they want days to be as long as possible so that end of the day re-reads are as terrible as possible. But now I think enough time has passed that people who still think Didds is scummy should vote for Didds.

The bolded bit. Er, what?

[infangthief]

There's another thing going on, EFHW.

Since you said "I agree with fang about mathdude, except one thing" on day 1, it seems like you've been assuming I'm thinking the same as you about everything.
- You assumed I was scum-reading mathdude at that time. But I wasn't, not until you presented your case on him.
- You don't think e is scum, but I do. Or I did yesterday, at least.

Really? Your long post on mathdude wasn't a scumread? I'll look at it again, but why are you saying that I think that we agree on everything? I'm sure I just meant everything in the post I was commenting on.

Yeh, short posts is the way to go. No-one has ever followed a single long post I have ever made.

Just those two bullet-points above. I don't know how to explain further.

[infangthief]

The thing I don't get about the Didds + e theory is why would Didds even move away from the Dylan wagon (to scolapasta) in that case.

Dylan was on 5 (including Didds), e on 2 (Dylan and Galzria) and mathdude on 4.
Both joth and I had said we were prepared to move from mathdude to e (at #415 and #434). So Didds moving off Dylan at #438 seems an unnecessary risk if e is her partner.

That bit through there is at least worth a reread.

[jotheonah]

I think we're just stalled because we got to Didds really quickly and people hate to end the day quickly because they want days to be as long as possible so that end of the day re-reads are as terrible as possible. But now I think enough time has passed that people who still think Didds is scummy should vote for Didds.

The bolded bit. Er, what?

This community is very wordy. And weirdly squeamish about hammering. That’s how you get this ridiculous idea that wagons are like avacados and just go bad if you leave them out too long. But I think wagons are like a fine wine that get better with age.

TL;DR let’s get on with it and exile Didds.

[EFHW]

fang's mathdude post, for reference.

fang's follow-up re: math has agenda to make MiX look scummy.

My post that convinced him.

Just for context. These aren't trying to prove anything. I reread fang's mathdude post, and I see now that he did in fact stop short of scumreading math and increased his conviction when I reminded him of math not following up his claims with any substance.

fang's defection from the math wagon right at the end is still mysterious. I'm going to wait and see about him. I know several people have expressed townreads on him.

I still think mathdude is acting like his last scum game, and very different from his last town game. That was the one right after Mouse mafia, which he modded, and he didn't have this antagonism that he showed in the scum game and has shown here.

PPE: 9

[EFHW]

Having spent the day on figuring out I'm not going to pursue fang, I remain with mathdude as my strongest scumread. I'm going to start iso'ing people now. I'll let you know how that goes!

vote: mathdude.

[EFHW]

I think we're just stalled because we got to Didds really quickly and people hate to end the day quickly because they want days to be as long as possible so that end of the day re-reads are as terrible as possible. But now I think enough time has passed that people who still think Didds is scummy should vote for Didds.

I'll iso her first.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Joth

All the people he was following have invited and now he’s doubling down based on what? That I would cede to his demand to exile e?

[Galzria]

vote: math.

Right now, I’m 100% sheeping EFHW.

I would be honestly surprised to see both WCD & Joth as town, but I’m really quite honestly not sure which I find scummier.

Fang… here’s the thing. I like a LOT of the effort put in by him. But… I also feel like EFHW is digging at a level deeper than I am, and she keeps coming up with reasons to be suspicious of him - reasons that, when I read them, make a whole lot of sense to me.

…. Where’s Space when you need them? I could really use some coded pairs voting analysis right now. 😩

[infangthief]

Having spent the day on figuring out I'm not going to pursue fang, I remain with mathdude as my strongest scumread. I'm going to start iso'ing people now. I'll let you know how that goes!

vote: mathdude.

Sorry for giving you so much work!

I believe that today is the Day We Expect To Hear From Scolapasta.

[jotheonah]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

[MiX]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

[infangthief]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

I'm hoping mathdude will tell us.

[infangthief]

why and how am I scummy all of a sudden? what did I miss?

Mostly how you parked on Didds and slept for the rest of the day.

In your defense I also don't know who else to exile, which is why I haven't done anything today. It feels like we need another misexile before we can kill scum. I think all D1 wagons are town and that Didds is town, but that really doesn't leave much else to do, since it means D1 was overall useless (other than to get to this conclusion), which doesn't get me anyone I want to exile.

I guess if I have to pick someone to die I'd pick scola?

Vote: scola

Will exiling scola today help us hit scum tomorrow?

[infangthief]

vote count please
prod request: scola