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Author Topic: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Game Over)  (Read 107293 times)

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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #675 on: February 26, 2022, 04:27:11 pm »

I can think of a reason faust might have died, but not one I'd be so certain of as MiX is. Scum might have had a reason to want to nk  on wagon, like they could have all been off wagon and didn't want to narrow down that field. Or they want to make it look like they were all off wagon. That seems less likely to me.

No one responded to this. Is it off somehow?

I think it is all a bit of speculation. Is it what you talked about with your scum partners during the night?

I was about to add you to my list of people who camped out on one person most all of D1. Going back and reading your D1 send townie enough though

This one is interesting. I don't think I've seen anything like this from e before...
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #676 on: February 26, 2022, 04:32:38 pm »

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #677 on: February 26, 2022, 04:41:38 pm »

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.
Based on today's posts by her? Do you agree with mathdude's assessment that she has been digging herself deeper?
Or based on people's cases against her? Galzria's? e's?
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #678 on: February 26, 2022, 04:42:27 pm »

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.

I have a bias for activity=town
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #679 on: February 26, 2022, 04:52:12 pm »

Looking at the wagons, I see a few options.

If e is town:
  • Scum has no real reason to see either exile happen, so I would expect they would hang back, or try to spread out onto different wagons.

If e is scum:
  • Scum is likely late on Dylan's wagon, like WCD or mathdude.
  • Joth expertly moved exiles to ensure Dylan was exiled.

To me, it looked more like e is town, which also plays into my slight townread on mathdude, and my perception of how joth plays.

I think we should probably look at the mathdude wagon + scola for scum today.

Looks like a helpful summary.

Couple of questions:
In what sense are you using "expertly" for joth's move? Expertly good play or expert scum play?
When you say "it looked more like e is town", do you mean just considering the options you went through above, or some other reason?
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #680 on: February 26, 2022, 04:55:16 pm »

And now I have reached the point where gkrieg is doing a read-and-comment on day 2.
So I am doing a read-and-comment on gkrieg's read-and-comment. Hmm.
When (if?) scolapasta turns up, he'll get to take that to another level again.
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #681 on: February 26, 2022, 05:08:47 pm »

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

I'm not following this. Between voting galz and unvoting galz, where did you ``see'' that faust was not going to be voted this game?

I was ISOing faust, and I saw his reply to Dylan saying faust is town. So I thought about how faust was perceived in the thread, and I didn't remember any scumreads being given out. Especially at EoD, people were mostly...angry at his stubbornness. Angry's not the right word, but you know. And then I went back to what I thought of faust at the end, and I was a bit annoyed, but never did I consider faust to be scum, even after the flip. So overall faust was a good nightkill, at least theoretically, and that was enough for me to unvote galz.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I'm obviously repeating what I said in recent posts, but it seems like they are either both town or both scum.

I agree, but I'm not very confident in it. I would rather find another scum that I'm more confident in. But this seems like an important question for now and possibly all of D2.

Ah, now I see why you say faust was killed. Cool. Maybe.

MiX, do you always do this much reviewing and reading and stuff after the day ends?

And then, can you explain your last paragraph there please? What are you agreeing with, but not very confident about?
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MiX

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #682 on: February 26, 2022, 05:14:03 pm »

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.

I like this a lot. I think you're confirmed town and I would be very surprised you live tonight after this.

Oh I see why faust died.

Unvote

And how does that affect your read on Galzria?

I think Galzria was the obvious kill there. That's basically my reason behind voting him, and then unvoting him now that I saw faust was not going to be voted this game.

I'm not following this. Between voting galz and unvoting galz, where did you ``see'' that faust was not going to be voted this game?

I was ISOing faust, and I saw his reply to Dylan saying faust is town. So I thought about how faust was perceived in the thread, and I didn't remember any scumreads being given out. Especially at EoD, people were mostly...angry at his stubbornness. Angry's not the right word, but you know. And then I went back to what I thought of faust at the end, and I was a bit annoyed, but never did I consider faust to be scum, even after the flip. So overall faust was a good nightkill, at least theoretically, and that was enough for me to unvote galz.

I could see a Didds/MiX/X team

This is a good team call, since I feel like defending Didds now.

Does anyone think both e and Didds can be town?

I'm obviously repeating what I said in recent posts, but it seems like they are either both town or both scum.

I agree, but I'm not very confident in it. I would rather find another scum that I'm more confident in. But this seems like an important question for now and possibly all of D2.

Ah, now I see why you say faust was killed. Cool. Maybe.

MiX, do you always do this much reviewing and reading and stuff after the day ends?

And then, can you explain your last paragraph there please? What are you agreeing with, but not very confident about?

I reread faust in the morning, evidenced by my voting and unvoting of Galzria.

That e and Didds are both town or both scum
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #683 on: February 26, 2022, 05:21:24 pm »

Hi all.

I again apologize for my lack of posting for much of D1. Early on it was more than I didn't have anything compelling to add and then later got very busy and have been on vacation week (nothing exotic, but some visiting with friends). I did get flustered by being called "extremely rude" without being left any space for legit reasons, especially in light if the fact that I feel like I usually do an ok job of posting regularly. But whatever, faust is gone now anyway, so no sense in debating hat now.

If WCD wasn't already on X-2, I'd be willing to vote for her based on today's posts. I do need to find time to catch up on D1 some.

My guess is I won't be able to post too much tomorrow and this weekend, but I'll be back at work next week, and this is always a good 5 minute break here and there during the day. So do expect to see more of me then.

I think you should probably just vote for her, if you say you are willing to. I don't know why people are so worried about putting people on X-1 early in the day, especially if it is basically your only read.
+1. Strongly agree.

Actually, that reminds me, when e was on 4 votes early day 1 and said "I'm only on 4 votes, 4 votes is nothing", why did no-one pile on?? Would have been a no-brainer for some people. Where is Awaclus?

And on that (probably controversial) note, I'm stopping for today.
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EFHW

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #684 on: February 26, 2022, 07:01:26 pm »

But I'm really confused about why fang left the math wagon for e. He'd been pushing a math exile all day and when Galzria joined, it made the numbers math (5), Dylan (4), e (1), Didds (1) and scola (1).

joth leaving and MiX moving his vote yielded math (4), Dylan (4), e (2), and scola (1). There were still 4 people who could vote math, even if no one on the Dylan wagon wanted to switch. Why give up so quickly? And would math lose that tie?

This is our discussion about it:
vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)
Why not just vote Dylan?
I'm not following your reasoning here.

If any of these three wagons (Dylan, e or mathdude, or any other wagon that materialises) is on scum, then we're getting good info here from people's reactions as we approach deadline.

When I turned up an hour ago (escaped from my parallel universe), no-one had said anything in like half an hour, so it seemed like things would just stay as they were, and Dylan would show up, vote mathdude, no responsibility attached because it would have been self preservation.

So it was in that context.
Since then everything has kicked off, which is probably good.

But fang seemed like he really wanted to exile math. Even if Dylan's vote was self-preservation, fang should expect that we would catch scum. Totally worth it. And if he thought Dylan was scum, too, or also likely, why vote e? I'm missing something here.

@fang, Do you have a response to this?
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EFHW

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #685 on: February 26, 2022, 07:04:40 pm »

Like this post by Galzria and also very much appreciate MiX's explication of his reasoning re: faust and Galzria. I still have one question, for MiX, though. Why did you think Galz was the obvious nk choice?
@MiX, I don't think you answered this.
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MiX

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #686 on: February 26, 2022, 07:12:08 pm »

Like this post by Galzria and also very much appreciate MiX's explication of his reasoning re: faust and Galzria. I still have one question, for MiX, though. Why did you think Galz was the obvious nk choice?
@MiX, I don't think you answered this.

Weird, I thought I had.

Because of the early Galzria discussion. People talked back and forth about my blunt townread on him, but no one scumread him. A lurking D1 Galz is an excellent NK target since it removes a player from the game without giving away information.
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mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #687 on: February 26, 2022, 10:34:06 pm »

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

Oo, thanks. I've never done this kind of read-and-comment thing before, but it is kind of fun, but then I worry that I'm commenting on too many things and making a boring load of stuff for people to trawl through / skip over, and maybe people will have already said the stuff. Hopefully there is something fresh somewhere.

Still about 80 posts till I'm caught up. Back into the pit.

I have a bias for activity=town

I'm finding that I do too... to a limit.  At some point, too much activity starts looking scummy again to me.
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #688 on: February 26, 2022, 10:34:35 pm »

Didds - how you feeling about galz? and mix?
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #689 on: February 26, 2022, 10:39:07 pm »

People keep saying “if i had changed my vote, or voted differently, it wouldn’t of mattered”.

Want to point out, since we gotta keep going with the plurality thing, that this is not accurate. I mean, it could be, but we don’t know it.

Pretty sure everyone is smart enough to realize this, but like butterfly effect shit to right?
I’m not saying everyone should hop around all fucking mix style, but also at least two people have said “it wouldn’t of mattered” - and there is no way to know that. It could of mattered, if you need 2 votes to matter and there are two people thinking “it doesn’t matter” then the first voter certainly matters.

I don’t actually think i find any of the “wouldn’t matter” things so far are skummy - but also it should be noted so that it can not be used as a potential smoke shield.

I think I mentioned this briefly earlier, but you put it much more eloquently.  Unless you're posting 30 seconds from the deadline (at which point, your vote actually doesn't matter if it won't change who's exiled)... but posting any earlier than that, especially on the order of hours, definitely has an effect.
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mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #690 on: February 26, 2022, 10:40:07 pm »

yeah, gkrieg's suggestion I vote WCD already to X-1 seems sketch.

WCD, what's your reasoning for thinking I'm scum? Is it just my lack of posting D1?

I mean, we just came out of a game where we didn't exile 2 of the 3 days, so scum won flawlessly. And mostly, it was because of people not wanting to get wagons going early in the day.

Early wagons at X-1 cause a ton more discussion than X-2 wagons, and if you put X-1 in bold, derphammers are incredibly unlikely.

Sure but in plurality vote, there isn't the trial of no exile. That's a huge difference.

Thank you for your very detailed contribution to this discussion!
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mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #691 on: February 26, 2022, 10:42:38 pm »

Fang with townie interactions to liven the game up some more.

I feel like things have stalled a bit for me, but that could just be me.

I was noticing a stalling a bit too.  Is that just a weekend thing?  Maybe someone can say something controversial so we can get a good discussion going again?
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #692 on: February 26, 2022, 11:01:06 pm »

Didds - how you feeling about galz? and mix?

I am uncertain about Galz. He wasn’t around most of D1, and today he’s firing for me. But I don’t really find it scummy, just wrong. It doesn’t seem forced, just too circumstantial. So, slight town.

MiX Hasn’t been wildly voting or making a whole bunch of MiXian pronouncements, so that’s different. He also had this kind of throwaway comment about kind of wanting to defend me, and then went silent when all the piling on started except to agree with the hole digging comment. It was noncommittal. Which is anti-MiX. So, slight scum.

But I’m still not ready to actually vote.

Fang with the good work! +1
Would fangwife ever want to play with us?!?
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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

mathdude

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #693 on: February 26, 2022, 11:06:33 pm »

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about joth.  Specifically, I'd like to hear from fang and gkrieg about this... but other people's thoughts might be helpful too.
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #694 on: February 27, 2022, 01:49:18 am »

Unvote

Won’t have much time to get to this until Monday. Still chewing over my thoughts on WCD. [Fang, Joth, Scola, e, MiX, math] are the others outside of WCD that I’m feeling off feelings for due to one thing or another. I know that list is pretty big, but it leaves EFHW, Swowl & Gkrieg as being more townie than not to me right now, and that’s at least something for me to help calibrate.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #695 on: February 27, 2022, 02:49:01 am »

But I'm really confused about why fang left the math wagon for e. He'd been pushing a math exile all day and when Galzria joined, it made the numbers math (5), Dylan (4), e (1), Didds (1) and scola (1).

joth leaving and MiX moving his vote yielded math (4), Dylan (4), e (2), and scola (1). There were still 4 people who could vote math, even if no one on the Dylan wagon wanted to switch. Why give up so quickly? And would math lose that tie?

This is our discussion about it:
vote: e
Mostly just to take out the "blame-free" self-preservation option for Dylan.
(Which is the reason e and mathdude joined the Dylan wagon yesterday, I assume.)
Why not just vote Dylan?
I'm not following your reasoning here.

If any of these three wagons (Dylan, e or mathdude, or any other wagon that materialises) is on scum, then we're getting good info here from people's reactions as we approach deadline.

When I turned up an hour ago (escaped from my parallel universe), no-one had said anything in like half an hour, so it seemed like things would just stay as they were, and Dylan would show up, vote mathdude, no responsibility attached because it would have been self preservation.

So it was in that context.
Since then everything has kicked off, which is probably good.

But fang seemed like he really wanted to exile math. Even if Dylan's vote was self-preservation, fang should expect that we would catch scum. Totally worth it. And if he thought Dylan was scum, too, or also likely, why vote e? I'm missing something here.

@fang, Do you have a response to this?

Er, ok. You're saying lots of things.

When joth moved from mathdude to e, that put mathdude on 4 and e on 3 (not 2 as you say - MiX had joined the e wagon by then), with Dylan set to be exiled because he'd been on 4 for longer than mathdude.

So 4 on mathdude if I don't move, 4 on e if I move. Been wavering on which of those I preferred all day. Yeh, my stated reason for moving to e there is pretty bad. What I'm annoyed about is that I didn't challenge joth there and then, to find out whether his mathdude-saving move was intentional or not.
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #696 on: February 27, 2022, 02:58:50 am »

There's another thing going on, EFHW.

Since you said "I agree with fang about mathdude, except one thing" on day 1, it seems like you've been assuming I'm thinking the same as you about everything.
- You assumed I was scum-reading mathdude at that time. But I wasn't, not until you presented your case on him.
- You don't think e is scum, but I do. Or I did yesterday, at least.
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #697 on: February 27, 2022, 03:17:21 am »

A thought.

Joth, when you're modding a game, how much do you read what people post? Do you just scan looking for things in bold, or do you read everything?
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EFHW

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #698 on: February 27, 2022, 08:00:51 am »

There's another thing going on, EFHW.

Since you said "I agree with fang about mathdude, except one thing" on day 1, it seems like you've been assuming I'm thinking the same as you about everything.
- You assumed I was scum-reading mathdude at that time. But I wasn't, not until you presented your case on him.
- You don't think e is scum, but I do. Or I did yesterday, at least.
Really? Your long post on mathdude wasn't a scumread? I'll look at it again, but why are you saying that I think that we agree on everything? I'm sure I just meant everything in the post I was commenting on.
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #699 on: February 27, 2022, 10:35:52 am »

A thought.

Joth, when you're modding a game, how much do you read what people post? Do you just scan looking for things in bold, or do you read everything?

I’ll occasionally skim a long wall post, but other than that I read everything. Which is also the case when I’m a player (sorry).
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