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Author Topic: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Game Over)  (Read 107269 times)

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faust

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #425 on: February 21, 2022, 04:02:37 pm »

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.
Do you have a reason for that?
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MiX

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #426 on: February 21, 2022, 04:27:36 pm »

I'm still voting e for the same reasons I was before. I haven't seen anyone that has risen to the same level of scummy to me than him.

Not useful case for why I'm town:
A) I play better as scum, and I clearly haven't posted enough to be considered to have played well this game. Check win-loss record in signature for evidence of this difference.
2) I generally try to make stronger cases more aggressively as scum than I do as town, because I feel more confident pushing lies or false narratives as scum than pushing cases or narratives that I'm more likely statistically to be wrong about than right about.
D) Pretty sure faust reads me wrong when I'm town way more than he reads me correctly, going way back. Never made a big deal about it, but I literally don't remember him ever really pushing me for an extended period of time when I've been scum, but it happens pretty much every game I'm town in.
42) I'm the easy path of least resistance exile that will give town the least information if you flip me today. This doesn't really speak to being town, but I can confidently say I've never intentionally lurked to avoid giving information as scum and I don't plan on it. (Let the WIFOM abound now that I've said it)

Weird post. If I'm to believe your self-meta, then you cannot post this as scum. I'm kinda believing right now, but it seems so non-Dylan that I can't help but want to kill you for it. Are you just scum way too often, such that my default of you is scum!Dylan?

Also, cool enumeration system.
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Dylan32

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #427 on: February 21, 2022, 05:05:49 pm »

I'm still voting e for the same reasons I was before. I haven't seen anyone that has risen to the same level of scummy to me than him.

Not useful case for why I'm town:
A) I play better as scum, and I clearly haven't posted enough to be considered to have played well this game. Check win-loss record in signature for evidence of this difference.
2) I generally try to make stronger cases more aggressively as scum than I do as town, because I feel more confident pushing lies or false narratives as scum than pushing cases or narratives that I'm more likely statistically to be wrong about than right about.
D) Pretty sure faust reads me wrong when I'm town way more than he reads me correctly, going way back. Never made a big deal about it, but I literally don't remember him ever really pushing me for an extended period of time when I've been scum, but it happens pretty much every game I'm town in.
42) I'm the easy path of least resistance exile that will give town the least information if you flip me today. This doesn't really speak to being town, but I can confidently say I've never intentionally lurked to avoid giving information as scum and I don't plan on it. (Let the WIFOM abound now that I've said it)

Weird post. If I'm to believe your self-meta, then you cannot post this as scum. I'm kinda believing right now, but it seems so non-Dylan that I can't help but want to kill you for it. Are you just scum way too often, such that my default of you is scum!Dylan?

Also, cool enumeration system.

In reverse chronological order (most recent to oldest), I was: 3rd party, scum, town, scum, town. That last game thread was posted in November of 2020, so I think that's far enough back to encompass anything that would be considered "recent."
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #428 on: February 21, 2022, 05:09:54 pm »

Actually, I hadn't put the last two games in my signature yet, which was a town loss and a scum win. Updated now. M136 = town loss and RMM60 = scum win.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #429 on: February 21, 2022, 05:16:04 pm »

tl;dr - Yes, I am scum too often and you probably default to reading me as scum, because most people are town somewhat close to a ratio that you would expect, so their default meta is their town game and differences from that are scummy. For the last two years, what you've seen as my default is pretty much my scum meta.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #430 on: February 21, 2022, 05:36:12 pm »

I would be willing to vote for Swowl. Just ISO'd, and 15 posts are either entirely or mainly questions compared to only 9 posts that are purely observations, votes, or answers without an associated question, and a third of those were like "+1 good catch," "vote: somebody," and "disregard. obv it is." Could be wrong, but my memory of swowl is that there's more direct engagement and discussion than interrogation in their playstyle, so this feels scummy for them.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #431 on: February 21, 2022, 05:41:03 pm »

Also @Dylan, e has posted a bunch more since #91, when you voted him. What have you thought of those posts?

Not as scummy as the early posts, but not so towny that it moves the needle back to null.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Dylan32

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #432 on: February 21, 2022, 05:43:30 pm »

Of the current wagons, I've got a pretty strong preference to exile e, (swowl would be here if there was a wagon), Didds next, and then MiX rather than mathdude, but MiX is null and I'm leaning slightly townie on mathdude, so I'd rather not exile either of them today.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #433 on: February 21, 2022, 05:55:19 pm »

2. @fang, can you substantiate your statement that math has an agenda to make MiX look scummy?

Yeh, not sure. I'll have a go.

The e/MiX thing being either/or started as something mathdude had "worked out" (seemingly in contrast to what his gut was telling him about which of e and MiX was more likely to be scum).
But later it turned out that the either/or thing was a gut feeling also.
So I kind of think he is abusing the term "gut feeling" to let him say anything he wants to.

That's the best way I can describe why I think the MiX shading is an agenda.
Below are the supporting quotes.

Here's the quote for the either/or thing being "worked out":
In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

And here's the quote for the either/or thing being a gut feeling:
I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).
Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

It was mostly a D1 gut read.  I felt like they were on different paths/priorities, but not an intentional "we need to not be connected" type of way.  And at the time I was making those initial thoughts, they seemed to be 2 of the most active.

Looking back now, I found 1 quote from each that probably influenced my reads as well.
There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?
All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Those two seem to be commenting on the other to stay relevant, but not getting connected.
(For this one, it is not absolutely clear whether the "It was mostly a D1 gut read" refers to the individual reads of e and MiX, or the either/or. But when he says that the MiX and e quotes "probably influenced" him, it becomes clear that he wants to say that the either/or was a "gut feeling".
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #434 on: February 21, 2022, 06:02:38 pm »

I am happy to switch back to e.

My main problem with the Dylan wagon is the people on it. I still think e and mathdude are scum and I am suspicious of faust also.
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EFHW

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #435 on: February 21, 2022, 06:05:50 pm »

Also @Dylan, e has posted a bunch more since #91, when you voted him. What have you thought of those posts?

Not as scummy as the early posts, but not so towny that it moves the needle back to null.
What about my other question, re: MiX scumread underlying the e scumread?
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infangthief

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #436 on: February 21, 2022, 06:09:23 pm »

For a few hours before deadline I'll be in a parallel universe (escape room). But I should be back for like an hour before deadline itself.

In case I don't make it out, are votes in parallel universes acceptable?
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #437 on: February 21, 2022, 06:38:35 pm »

Fang, you’re Dylan strike through was hilarious.

Pasta is for sure not concerned about posting when he’s scum.
Did you click on it to check?

Listing, as in leaning to one side a bit? Or making lists? Or listening? Concerned or not concerned?

Sheesh! That was an autocorrect disaster. FIFMyself

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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #438 on: February 21, 2022, 06:50:10 pm »

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.
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MiX

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #439 on: February 21, 2022, 06:57:59 pm »

Reread math, he's town. I was going to sheep him onto e, but he's townreading him now! math, why are you townreading e?
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MiX

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #440 on: February 21, 2022, 07:15:00 pm »

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MiX

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #441 on: February 21, 2022, 07:16:28 pm »

Probably should've written this in the previous post, but just quoting a question emanates so much energy.

I understand why people don't want to flip e. On the other hand, e and math have the same alignment. So I'm willing to vote for e? I'm still dying on the Didds wagon though.

I'm (sorta) around for deadline, so it should be okay.
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J Reggie

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #442 on: February 21, 2022, 07:28:51 pm »

Hmmm…. Dylan’s engagement today is decidely more towny. I agree that Swowl is not playing in quite his normal way. I get the sense that he and Galz are work-busy, but I’m still wary.

This is normally when I’d follow Mix, but he’s not cooperating with that plan at all.

Vote: Scola


Is the 9am deadline forum time? The “your time” is confusing for me.

It's whatever your time is set to display as, regardless of time zone. If you never changed your time zone settings, it will be forum time.

Swowl

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #443 on: February 21, 2022, 07:30:48 pm »

I would be willing to vote for Swowl. Just ISO'd, and 15 posts are either entirely or mainly questions compared to only 9 posts that are purely observations, votes, or answers without an associated question, and a third of those were like "+1 good catch," "vote: somebody," and "disregard. obv it is." Could be wrong, but my memory of swowl is that there's more direct engagement and discussion than interrogation in their playstyle, so this feels scummy for them.

you are late to the party on this one.
And also mis-remembering how I play (i.e. involvement level).
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #444 on: February 21, 2022, 08:16:34 pm »

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.

Hold on.

Its plurality exile and your vote switch took E! to 2 and brought Math up to 4. Prior they were tied at 3-3.
If you prefer E! over Math... why make the change?
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #445 on: February 21, 2022, 08:21:25 pm »

PSA - coal in stockings this year for everyone without a shuffleIT username. annoying.
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #446 on: February 21, 2022, 09:03:41 pm »

Reread math, he's town. *snip*

What are you seeing here that I am not?

#256 - Reads list post. Personally, I hate them day 1. Outside of that, mentioned other reasons specifically why I don't like it (those are opinions tbf, so whatever).

#258 - Important part = "I don't think I said they aren't both town.  They are my top 2 scum reads, individually.  But it's D1.  They could be T-vs-T and I'm completely wrong."
However, in the original post (which was literally only 2 posts earlier) Math says, quote "2.71828..... - seems scummy, but not if MiX is scum". Those are very contradicting statements.

#259 - I read as dismissive because they realize they messed up.

#287 - This on is a lot of words, and yes.. it could be seen as towny. However, the way I see it is that Math posted the reads list, then tried to sweep it under the rug, then the heat didn't go away so they came back with paragraphs of explanations. I would think Town would most likely respond in paragraphs, so to speak, prior to trying to be dismissive of the situation.

#374 and after - everything is either fluff or content that I believe (I know, bc he has pwned me previously) that math is capable of doing as skum. What they did not do is try to further anything on MiX or E!, and instead defaulted onto Dylan. To be clear, the defaulting onto Dylan is only slightly odd because they did not go for their other skum read with a wagon E!... but also could be self prez.

I am certainly less confident now than I was at the time that I placed the vote... but still my favorite option. How are the people that don't want Math anymore reading the posts differently than I am?


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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #447 on: February 21, 2022, 09:07:30 pm »

just so it is said - DL is right when I wake up my time, so I am around for like 6-7 hours and then hopefully mobile just before end of day.
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

jotheonah

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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #448 on: February 21, 2022, 10:45:23 pm »

I would switch back to e if there were a chance of that happening. Dylan is my least favorite of the viable wagons.
Do you have a reason for that?

Yea. It’s because I like the other two wagons more.
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Re: M137: Hatchling Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #449 on: February 21, 2022, 10:48:10 pm »

I would be willing to vote for Swowl. Just ISO'd, and 15 posts are either entirely or mainly questions compared to only 9 posts that are purely observations, votes, or answers without an associated question, and a third of those were like "+1 good catch," "vote: somebody," and "disregard. obv it is." Could be wrong, but my memory of swowl is that there's more direct engagement and discussion than interrogation in their playstyle, so this feels scummy for them.

you are late to the party on this one.
And also mis-remembering how I play (i.e. involvement level).

Yeah what you described is pretty standard day 1 Swowl. And he gets better in subsequent days.
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