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[faust]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

Is it an important question?

I wouldn't ask it if I didn't think it important.

[jotheonah]

I'm V/LA this weekend, btw. probably back Monday, maybe Sunday night.

[mathdude]

I know we don't like policy exile for not being around. But Dylan, scola, and even gkrieg are doing pretty good so far at saying they are still here but not saying much. So rather than saying "let's exile one of them for being anti-town", I'll just say "you need to say more".

[infangthief]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

vote: mathdude

[mathdude]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

I'll respond to this tomorrow. Quick mobile posts this morning... more time tomorrow.
We're finally having our family Christmas today... got postponed 3 times from people being sick

[MiX]

I know we don't like policy exile for not being around. But Dylan, scola, and even gkrieg are doing pretty good so far at saying they are still here but not saying much. So rather than saying "let's exile one of them for being anti-town", I'll just say "you need to say more".

I don't think there's going to say more after they're exiled though.

We're finally having our family Christmas today... got postponed 3 times from people being sick

Wait, what?? That is a catastrophic chain of illness.

[Dylan32]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

Is it an important question?

I wouldn't ask it if I didn't think it important.

It's less I refused to answer, and more that I just missed the fact you asked after I had told Didds I wasn't going to elaborate. As to when, I would prefer not to give it away until such time as I catch scum!you with it or I need to explain it to prevent misexiling town!you. You are not currently under any sort of pressure or risk of being exiled, and I do not think you are scum, so I don't feel any need to give more detail on it.

[gkrieg13]

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

How's the wagon on you going, do you think?

I forgot. I think joth's still voting me?

Not only am I not still voting for you, I never voted for you in the first place. Begrudging town points for not paying attention to the game.

I disagree with the "begrudging town points" - I'd give him tentative scum points.  See this comment about e earlier:

On the other hand, e has seemed remarkably calm through a huge wagon growing on him (4 votes now I think?). That's towny for most people. Anyone know e's meta in this kind of thing?

e is savvy enough to sidestep the wagon freakout tell.

e is wise enough not to "fall" for a wagon.  MiX is wise enough to know that "not realizing the votes were where he thought they were" is something people give town-points for on D1.  I wouldn't put it past MiX to abuse this group meta to get town points - something he would be looking to do as scum, but wouldn't need to do as town.

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

[gkrieg13]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Please let me know when you've done this and what your findings are.

Haven't done it yet. Won't have time tonight. Hoping for tomorrow.

Can you tell everyone to stop posting to limit how much I need to catch up on?

mathdude being jokey anti-town here. Excited to see his catch-up.

I'm curious as to why you say being jokey is anti-town.  Is that your default when you post as scum?  Do you think that's our group's meta?  Are you implying it's mine?  Obviously I don't have an outside perspective, but I feel I'm more comfortable posting whatever comes to mind as town (which for me tends to be a lot of sarcasm and jokey comments), and try to be more careful to stay out of the spotlight when I'm scum.

I think the hyphens should have carried through the whole phrase. I was saying that you were being jokey-anti-town, meaning that you were joking about being anti-town.

[gkrieg13]

Better late than never! Not sure where to go yet. My default setting says to vote for MiX, but I see there's a few there already so I'll wait until I read in more depth.

Please let me know when you've done this and what your findings are.

Haven't done it yet. Won't have time tonight. Hoping for tomorrow.

Can you tell everyone to stop posting to limit how much I need to catch up on?

mathdude being jokey anti-town here. Excited to see his catch-up.

I'm curious as to why you say being jokey is anti-town.  Is that your default when you post as scum?  Do you think that's our group's meta?  Are you implying it's mine?  Obviously I don't have an outside perspective, but I feel I'm more comfortable posting whatever comes to mind as town (which for me tends to be a lot of sarcasm and jokey comments), and try to be more careful to stay out of the spotlight when I'm scum.

Also my experience is that you do not stay out of the spotlight as scum.

[gkrieg13]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

Curious why you think this.

[MiX]

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

[MiX]

(I'm not sure how to cut this massive quote and still leave the important parts. If anyone can, please tell me.)

scolapasta, were you aware that the game had started?

what information were you hoping to gain from this?

You have to ask fang. I was just noticing that scola hadn't answered fang's question about was he aware.

woops! good point.

Fang?

An Interesting Situation has developed.

Swowl, I feel you do this a lot - asking what was the point of asking a question. And it is a good attitude to have. But this time I am going to throw it back at you. Why do you think I asked scola that? Did it occur to you to ask him?

Given there is a 0% chance your answer is the same as mine, I'll play along. But would still like your reasoning...

Your post just seemed like a fluff post. Could not really grasp what you would gain from asking it. Which is, to be fair, why I asked "what information you were hoping to gain from this".

Well that fell flat.

You will find my reasoning in a secret hidden cache accessible only after solving lots of ridiculously hard puzzles, the first of which involves navigating to post #216 in this thread.
And I will add that I've given scola slight townpoints for such a frank admission of having nothing to say for 24 hours. Scum doesn't dare do that, do they?

I have finally understood this post. Infang, what do you think of Swowl's alignment, given that he forgot that you answered his question?

[MiX]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

7. Taking my line completely out of context, like it was a read. Ok, that one's the most subjective because it's about my own post. Maybe no-one else got what I was on about either.

Sign me up for someone that did not understand your post then: I thought the post was made to justify the conclusion that math quoted.

I didn't put a question mark, but this was a question. Infang, in what way did math take your quote out of context? From my perspective, that single line is a statement of your read of e and me at the time.

[gkrieg13]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

I agree. It’s not like he’s around to question it….

Vote: Dylan

kind of unlike you to take the LAL approach. You have a reason outside of that?

Would LAL even apply to Dylan anymore? I think he has posted quite a bit now.

[gkrieg13]

So, mathdude, eh?

I disagree with pretty much everything he has said the last couple of pages. Actually, the whole game (which is pretty much the same thing).

Shall I comment on every single thing? Probably that would be mostly noise.
Shall I put down a vote? Maybe. Some of it is scummy stuff, some of it is just disagreement. But how can it happen on pretty much everything?? I know his background is playing mafia elsewhere, which supposedly explains some of this.
I'm trying to remember dwarf mafia (the only other game I played with him). I think there was some of this going on. And he turned out to be scum.
Maybe I should go and find a game where he was town and read that, see if it triggers all the same frustration.

I also disagree with him on some points, but I don't see him very scummy from it.

[gkrieg13]

Alright, it seems this is becoming a big deal.  I recognize (and did recognize when I posted it) that many of you would disagree with what/how I was posting.  I realize that f.ds mafia doesn't like prompting/leading to the next exile.  It might be semantics, but I see a difference with saying "if we exile e today and he's town, then we need to exile MiX tomorrow because he's probably scum then"... and "I think it's quite likely that one of Mix and e are scum - I don't know which one, but I'm fairly sure one of them is".  Some of you seem to think that by saying the 2nd, I'm implying the 1st.  I disagree.

What I posted was my version of a reads list.  As an overall, many of you will post "this person is the scummiest, then this person, then this person... etc. and this is my chummiest", or "these 3 people I'm fairly sure are town, these 2 I think are, these 3 are probably scum, and I'm definitely sure this person is scum".  To me, people don't fit on a sliding scale like that, even D1.  Yes, I see MiX as scummy right now.  Yes, I see e as scummy.  They would probably be my top 2 (though Didds might have jumped ahead of e recently).  But I've got a gut feeling, based on their interactions, posts, and reads, that they cannot be scum together.  So I state that.

Would that be more useful for me to say D2 if we exile one and find out they're town?  Maybe.  But what if I don't make it through N1?  (I'm not counting on flipping as a hatched tree stump!)  Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)... at least I've shared my opinions on people *and* my interpreted connections, which start becoming more useful D2.  I recognize that I have some polarizing views, and that might make me a D1 exile or a N1 kill, so I feel that getting my thoughts out there early is more helpful than taking them with me to the abyss (or wherever it is we get exiled to).

If you want to policy-exile me for saying "if not x, then y" on D1, I can't stop you.  But at some point, f.ds will realize that's not me being scummy.  That's just me.  And really, if I was scum trying to stay under the radar, knowing this would raise a flag, would I really say it?  (I know, WIFOM, but still.) 

Ok, useful question. mathdude, do you still play mafia elsewhere (online or in person), or is f.ds the only place you play these days?

I do play fairly regularly with a group of people still.  Often we're in person, but sometimes we use an online site to play virtually.

But now, this post I read pretty scummy. It comes off as being very aware of how he might be perceived and trying to stop any wagon momentum before it picks up. But, I think he misses the point of why he is getting votes.

[Swowl]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

Is it an important question?

I wouldn't ask it if I didn't think it important.

It's less I refused to answer, and more that I just missed the fact you asked after I had told Didds I wasn't going to elaborate. As to when, I would prefer not to give it away until such time as I catch scum!you with it or I need to explain it to prevent misexiling town!you. You are not currently under any sort of pressure or risk of being exiled, and I do not think you are scum, so I don't feel any need to give more detail on it.

OK but then why say all the stuff? Why not just say "I think faust is town" or, just not say anything... given, as you pointed out yourself, they are under no scrutiny.

[Swowl]

Alright, it seems this is becoming a big deal.  I recognize (and did recognize when I posted it) that many of you would disagree with what/how I was posting.  I realize that f.ds mafia doesn't like prompting/leading to the next exile.  It might be semantics, but I see a difference with saying "if we exile e today and he's town, then we need to exile MiX tomorrow because he's probably scum then"... and "I think it's quite likely that one of Mix and e are scum - I don't know which one, but I'm fairly sure one of them is".  Some of you seem to think that by saying the 2nd, I'm implying the 1st.  I disagree.

What I posted was my version of a reads list.  As an overall, many of you will post "this person is the scummiest, then this person, then this person... etc. and this is my chummiest", or "these 3 people I'm fairly sure are town, these 2 I think are, these 3 are probably scum, and I'm definitely sure this person is scum".  To me, people don't fit on a sliding scale like that, even D1.  Yes, I see MiX as scummy right now.  Yes, I see e as scummy.  They would probably be my top 2 (though Didds might have jumped ahead of e recently).  But I've got a gut feeling, based on their interactions, posts, and reads, that they cannot be scum together.  So I state that.

Would that be more useful for me to say D2 if we exile one and find out they're town?  Maybe.  But what if I don't make it through N1?  (I'm not counting on flipping as a hatched tree stump!)  Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)... at least I've shared my opinions on people *and* my interpreted connections, which start becoming more useful D2.  I recognize that I have some polarizing views, and that might make me a D1 exile or a N1 kill, so I feel that getting my thoughts out there early is more helpful than taking them with me to the abyss (or wherever it is we get exiled to).

If you want to policy-exile me for saying "if not x, then y" on D1, I can't stop you.  But at some point, f.ds will realize that's not me being scummy.  That's just me.  And really, if I was scum trying to stay under the radar, knowing this would raise a flag, would I really say it?  (I know, WIFOM, but still.) 

Ok, useful question. mathdude, do you still play mafia elsewhere (online or in person), or is f.ds the only place you play these days?

I do play fairly regularly with a group of people still.  Often we're in person, but sometimes we use an online site to play virtually.

But now, this post I read pretty scummy. It comes off as being very aware of how he might be perceived and trying to stop any wagon momentum before it picks up. But, I think he misses the point of why he is getting votes.

This is in regard to fang, right? Just asking because you included the Math quote at the bottom.

[Swowl]

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

you have a cut and dry town read on math, or you think this comes off as GK has a cut and dry town read on Math?

[infangthief]

I have finally understood this post. Infang, what do you think of Swowl's alignment, given that he forgot that you answered his question?

I feel like he didn't notice that I'd answered it, rather than forgot that I'd answered it. I don't think I get anything from it - people miss stuff all the time.

The interesting situation was that it provided a way for him and me to both answer his question without being influenced by each other's answers.

[infangthief]

In that long chain of posts I just quoted, I almost forgot that I wanted to comment on this line specifically.

So I think e is scum and MiX is town.

I came to a very similar consensus - in my casual reading the last day and a bit, I had sort of worked out that it's probably either e or MiX as scum, but not likely both... and my gut was saying probably e.  At this point, having read through everything again, I'd be more inclined to lean towards MiX.

7. Taking my line completely out of context, like it was a read. Ok, that one's the most subjective because it's about my own post. Maybe no-one else got what I was on about either.

Sign me up for someone that did not understand your post then: I thought the post was made to justify the conclusion that math quoted.

I didn't put a question mark, but this was a question. Infang, in what way did math take your quote out of context? From my perspective, that single line is a statement of your read of e and me at the time.

My line "e is scum and MiX is town" was the conclusion of a case on e, not about reads.
The case was that I thought e had revealed that he knew you were town.
(Separately from that case, I do read e as scum, and I haven't really tried to read you.)

[2.71828.....]

Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive

[faust]

More people should be voting for Dylan by the way. Don't worry, I was assured that doing that takes very little effort.

I agree. It’s not like he’s around to question it….

Vote: Dylan

kind of unlike you to take the LAL approach. You have a reason outside of that?

Would LAL even apply to Dylan anymore? I think he has posted quite a bit now.

He has 6 in-game posts.

[faust]

Speaking about lurkers, request prod on Galzria.