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infangthief

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Codename Select
« on: January 24, 2022, 10:20:22 am »

Here is a new game suggestion for forum play, derived from the Codenames that we all know and love.

It is not playtested, but I'd be thrilled if you're up for trying it out and seeing how it rolls.
Feel free to provide feedback before / during / after the game.

If you're interested, please /in.
It is also possible to join mid-game (crazy, huh?), but I won't start it unless there are a few indications of interest.

The game should work fine without any external moderation, but I intend to sit out for now so I can do any clarifying or moderating if needed. Hopefully it'll work well enough to run again and I can join in :)

The game description and rules... are in the next post.
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infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2022, 10:24:44 am »

Codename Select


1. Introduction
  • This is a Codenames-style forum game in which players compete individually rather than in teams. Everyone gets to give clues and guess clues!
  • You can also challenge clues if you think they do not identify words clearly enough.
  • Your score will depend on how well you understand other players' clues, and how well your clues are understood by them.
  • You can join the game at any time, and your first turn will earn you 10 points!
  • Thereafter, you score 1 point for each turn you take.
  • You may also gain or lose points if a clue is challenged.
  • There is no predefined turn order - you can take a turn at any time, except that you must allow at least two turns by other players in between your turns.
  • The game finishes after 15 turns, and players are ranked according to score. (i.e. it is not intended to be "win or nothing")


2. Concepts and Terminology

2.1. The Grid
  • The game uses a grid of 16 entries, randomly generated for each game. (Eg use a Codenames randomiser and remove the bottom row and right column.)
  • Each entry is referred to as a "word", or "grid-word" even though some of them may actually be more than one word (eg "New York").
2.2. Propose -> Select/Reject -> Guess
  • From the grid, words are Proposed (two at a time), Selected/Rejected and Guessed.
  • Once a word has been Guessed, it may not be Selected, Rejected or Guessed again this game.
  • Proposing: a player Proposes two words, by giving a Codenames-style clue which targets both words.
    • Eg if Alice wanted to Propose HORSE and FIELD, she might give the clue "Fence"
  • Selecting/Rejecting: a different player then Selects one of the Proposed words and Rejects the other, by giving a Codenames-style clue which targets one word but not the other.
    • Eg if Bob wanted to Select FIELD and Reject HORSE, he might give the clue "Scarecrow"
  • Guessing: another player then Guesses which word was Selected, by posting their guess explicitly.
    • Eg Carol might Guess "Field".
2.3. Challenges
  • The purpose of the clues is for the player who Proposes words and the player who Selects/Rejects them to reach a common understanding of which word was Selected and which was Rejected.
    • Eg consider what happens if Bob says "Mailbox" instead of Scarecrow. Alice might be a bit puzzled, then notice that POST is in the grid and decide that maybe Bob thought she had Proposed FIELD and POST, not Horse. It is in Alice's interests now for her to run with Bob's understanding and decide that actually Field and Post are the words which she Proposed after all.
  • If a player thinks that those two players have not reached a common understanding of which words were Selected and Rejected then they can challenge the clue that was used to Select/Reject.
    • Eg if Dan thinks Alice and Bob aren't thinking about the same words, he might challenge Bob's clue. Then Alice and Bob would have to each say which grid-word they think was Selected by Bob's clue and which was Rejected, by sending PMs to Dan.
    • Depending on Alice and Bob's ideas for the Selected/Rejected words, Alice, Bob, Carol and Dan may each gain or lose points.
2.4. Doing it all at once!
  • On your turn you get to do a bit of everything: You Guess the word that was Selected by the previous player, you Select and Reject the words that were Proposed by the previous player, and you Propose two new words.
  • The tricky thing is that you need to Select/Reject words and Propose two new words using the same clue; it should be a clue targeting three words: the word you are Selecting and the two words you are Proposing.
  • Thus each turn comprises a Guess and also a clue targeting three words.


3. Rules

3.1. Set-up (grid and turns 1-2)
  • Generate and post a 4-by-4 grid of words.
  • Any player takes turn 1 (score 10 points!); Propose two words from the grid. You do this by posting a clue targeting the 2 words.
  • Another player takes turn 2 (score 10 points!); decide which words you think were Proposed on turn 1, Select one of them, Reject the other and Propose two new words. You do this by posting a clue for 3 words, targeting the Selected and Proposed words.
3.2. Play (turns 3-15 and challenges)
  • After turn 2 and before turn 15, there are three things you can do: take a turn, challenge an earlier clue, or pre-challenge the next clue.
  • You can take a turn, so long as neither of the previous two turns were yours.
    • To take a turn, you need to:
      • Guess the word that was Selected by the previous player.
      • Select and Reject the words that were Proposed by the previous player.
      • Propose two more words.
    • You must not Guess a word that was previously Guessed. You should not Select, Reject or Propose words which were previously Guessed.
    • Your turn is a post which contains:
      • The turn number.
      • Your Guess for the word that was Selected by the previous player.
      • A clue for 3 words, targeting the word you are Selecting and the two words you are Proposing.
    • If it is your first turn, score 10 points, otherwise score 1 point.

  • You can challenge an earlier clue.
    • Let's say that turn <n> was played by Bob, and turn <n-1> was played by Alice.
    • To challenge the clue on turn <n>, post something along the lines of "Challenge clue <n> by Bob. Alice and Bob please send me PMs with the words Selected and Rejected by Bob"
    • Then, Alice and Bob each need to private-message the challenger, saying which words they think were Selected and Rejected by Bob on turn <n>. They must not include any words that were Guessed on turn <n> or earlier.
    • Once you have received both PMs, make a post with the information and confirm the outcome of the challenge, as follows:
      • If Alice and Bob's messages match up (and don't include any previously Guessed words), then they each gain 2 points. Otherwise they each lose 2 points.
      • If Alice and Bob gain points, and turn <n+1> has been played (by Carol, say) before the challenge is resolved, then Carol gains or loses 1 point depending on whether her Guess was correct.
      • If any of Alice, Bob or Carol lost points then your challenge was successful and you gain 1 point. Otherwise you lose 1 point.
    • Note that challenging a clue always targets the Selecting/Rejecting aspect of that clue.
      • If you think someone's clue does the Selecting/Rejecting clearly enough, but is not Proposing new words clearly enough, then the way to call it out is to wait and challenge the next clue, or even to pre-challenge the next clue (see below).
      • If you think someone has made a wrong Guess on their turn, then the way to call it out is to challenge the clue from the previous turn.
    • You may not challenge a clue from one of your own turns, or a turn either side of one of your turns. Similarly, if you challenge the latest clue, you may not then take the next turn.

  • You can pre-challenge the next clue. This is effectively the same as challenging the next player's clue as soon as they give it.
    • If you pre-challenge the next clue then the player who takes the next turn scores an extra point.
    • If you pre-challenge the next clue then you cannot take either of the next two turns.
3.3. Game end
  • The end of the game is triggered by someone taking turn 15.
  • No new challenges may be made after this time, but challenges made before this time still need to be resolved.
  • Once all challenges have been resolved, final ranking is done by score.
3.4. Scoring summary

Taking your first turn:+10 points
Taking any other turn:+1 point
Taking a turn that has been pre-challenged:+1 extra point
Challenging a clue:+1 point if successful (i.e. any other player loses points), -1 point otherwise
If your clue is challenged:+2 points if you successfully identify the Selected and Rejected words, -2 points otherwise
If the clue after yours is challenged:+2 points if you successfully identify the Selected and Rejected words, -2 points otherwise
If the clue before your Guess is challenged and the clue-giver gains points:+1 point if your Guess matches the Selected word, -1 point otherwise

3.5. Notes:
  • All clues should conform to standard Codenames rules (clues must be single words, relate to the meanings of the target words, not be any derivation of any grid words, no googling).
  • When a challenge is made, play does not need to pause; there can be further turns (and challenges) while waiting for the challenge to be resolved.
    • It is possible for multiple challenges to be in-flight at once; when responding to a challenge you should include the turn number that the challenge relates to.
    • Please assist with resolving challenges in a timely manner. You may see a possibility for gaining some advantage by delaying, but that is not in the spirit of the game - don't do it.
  • No clue may be challenged or pre-challenged more than once.
  • The clue given on turn 1 cannot be challenged.
  • The clue given on turn 15 is only relevant if it has been pre-challenged.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2022, 02:02:38 pm by infangthief »
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infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2022, 10:28:21 am »

Here is an example of a grid and a few turns - words that are Guessed during these turns are marked in italics.

ALPSTELESCOPEMEXICOLETTER
BICYCLESHELLSALTDREAM
LOCKCOMPUTERBONDSNOW
ROBINPOCKETPIANOCREAM

Quote from: player E
Quote from: player D
Quote from: player C
Quote from: player B
Quote from: player A
Turn 1
Christmas: 2
Turn 2
Mountain: 3
Turn 3
Guess: Snow
Clue Security: 3
Turn 4
Guess: Bicycle
Clue Money: 3
Turn 5
Guess: Bond
Clue Pick: 3

So here I am, wondering about taking turn 6, or maybe making a challenge. Here's my thought process:
  • Turn 1 Christmas was probably a clue for SNOW and ROBIN
  • So I think turn 2 Mountain was used to select Snow, reject Robin, and propose Alps and something. Not entirely sure what the something was. Does the turn 4 guess of Bicycle make sense? Ah yes, Mountain bike.
  • Turn 3 guessed Snow, which matches what I thought. Then the Security clue wasn't entirely obvious. Lock, certainly. Looking at the guesses on turns 4 and 5 it seems people think the others must be Bicycle and Bond. I suppose if it is being used to select/reject between Bicycle and Alps, then it is good enough. Makes enough sense that I don't want to challenge it.
  • Turn 4 guesses Bicycle, ok, that was proposed turn 2 and selected turn 3. The Money clue is to select Bond and reject Lock. What two words did it propose? Pocket money maybe. Not sure about the other one.
  • Turn 5 guesses Bond, which seems fine. Pick Pocket makes sense, so Pocket is clearly the Money word being selected here. Not sure what word is being rejected, because I didn't fully understand the Money clue. What words are being proposed by Pick? You can Pick a Lock. Didn't we have Lock before? Yes, but it's ok, because Lock wasn't actually guessed at any point. What else? Maybe Cream (the best pick, the cream of the crop), maybe Shell (pick up shells at the beach), or maybe something else.

What could I do?
  • I could go ahead and take turn 6, guessing Pocket, which I'm confident was proposed on turn 4 and selected on turn 5. Now finding a good clue to give is hard because I'm unsure which words were being proposed by "Pick". But probably it can be done, especially if my clue rejects Lock and selects a less obvious word like Cream or Shell.
  • Or I could challenge an earlier turn. The clues seem clear enough except I think it isn't clear which words were being proposed by "Money". The way to call this out would be to challenge clue 5 (Pick). Then players D and E would have to tell me which words they think were being proposed by "Money" and selected/rejected by "Pick".
  • Or I could even pre-challenge clue 6, if I think that the "Pick" clue was so bad at proposing words that no-one will be able to select/reject them clearly enough with their next clue. But I already had an idea how I might go about a clue for turn 6, so pre-challenging doesn't seem like a good plan here.
  • Or I could chicken out and wait for someone else to take a turn. I could still go back and challenge clue 5 or 6 later in the game if I want to, if no-one else challenges them first.

Having considered all that, I post:
Challenge: clue 5 ("Pick") by player E. Players D and E please PM me which words you think were selected and rejected by player E.

To continue the example:
  • I'm not allowed to take turn 6, because I challenged clue 5.
  • Player B takes turn 6, guessing "Pocket" and giving the clue "Beaches: 3".
  • Next day I get PMs from players D and E. Both of them say the selected word was "Pocket" and the rejected word was "Dream". Turns out they both Dream about Money, who knew.
  • So I post those results. Then players D and E get 2 points each, player B gets 1 point, and I lose 1 point.
At this point, B, D and E are in the lead with 12 points each, A and C have 10 points each, and I am on -1. Maybe I should take a turn soon, to get myself 10 points!
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infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2022, 09:48:49 am »

So... Codenames folks... no interest?
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scolapasta

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2022, 10:23:57 am »

So... Codenames folks... no interest?

Honestly, it seemed complicated for me, in a way o couldn't really intuitively grasp.
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silverspawn

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2022, 10:30:20 am »

It was too long for me to read it initially and then I forgot, but I read it now and I'd play if there is enough interest
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Galzria

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2022, 10:57:51 am »

It was too long for me to read it initially and then I forgot, but I read it now and I'd play if there is enough interest

This - except I still havenít quite found the time to read through it yet. But most likely would be in to at least give it a go.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2022, 02:06:35 pm »

I'm hoping the game will be simpler than it looks from my rules explanation.

I can do the game as a kind of walk-through, commenting on what needs to happen next etc.

Anyway, it will need at least 4 to get started.
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scolapasta

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2022, 02:08:30 pm »

Sure, I'm willing to try.
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EFHW

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2022, 08:01:34 pm »

I'll play
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infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2022, 10:01:00 am »

Cool. Thanks silverspawn, Galzria, scolapasta and EFHW.

I'll get this started, anyone else can join any time, and we'll see how it goes.
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infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2022, 10:04:03 am »

Here's the grid:

TEARBLIZZARDHELICOPTEREAGLE
DOCTORMAKEUPREVOLUTIONANTHEM
BUNKZOMBIECAESARLAB
ROULETTEHOTELSCARECROWOLYMPUS

Anyone can take turn 1, just give a clue for any two grid-words.
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silverspawn

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2022, 11:22:16 am »

Turn 1
flying: 2
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EFHW

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2022, 11:38:09 am »

Turn 2
American: 3
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infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2022, 11:55:49 am »

Nice start.

So every turn from now on needs to include a guess and a clue targeting three words.

Guess: turn 3, guess which word was proposed by silverspawn and selected by EFHW.
Clue: turn 3, select one of the words proposed by EFHW, and propose two more words.

Also, any clue from turn 2 onwards can be challenged, at any time.

Turn 3 can be taken by anyone except EFHW or silverspawn.
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Galzria

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2022, 12:10:40 pm »

Turn 3:

Guess: Eagle
Clue: War: 3

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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2022, 02:23:08 pm »

Ok, so turn 4 can be taken by anyone other than Galzria or EFHW.

Guess which word was proposed by EFHW and selected by Galzria.
Give a clue to select one of the words proposed by Galzria and propose two more.
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scolapasta

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2022, 02:27:13 pm »

And I can pre-challenge too, right?

I'll try that:

pre-challenge
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infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2022, 01:17:28 am »

Spicy. Yes you can. Ok, so whoever takes the next turn will get an extra point for it, but whatever their clue is, it is challenged by scolapasta.

Turn 4 can be taken by anyone other than Galzria, EFHW or scolapasta.
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infangthief

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2022, 03:46:18 am »

So if silverspawn takes the next turn they will gain 2 points. If anyone else takes the next turn they will gain 11 points.

Then they and Galzria will each gain or lose 2 points depending on the outcome of the challenge.
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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2022, 03:54:20 pm »

uh-oh. I feel my pre challenge may have slowed things down here.
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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2022, 10:09:29 pm »

silver is the only one who can take a turn now. Maybe he hasn't been on?
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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2022, 10:31:34 pm »

Oh, is fang not playing?

So that makes the pre challenge more interesting, I guess as it forces silver to go (in a 4 player game).
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silverspawn

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2022, 02:40:33 am »

Sorry, also didn't realize I'm the only one who can take the turn. But I'm always on, of course.

Turn 4
Guess: Revolution
Clue: Human: 3
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silverspawn

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Re: Codename Select
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2022, 03:03:58 am »

silver is the only one who can take a turn now. Maybe they haven't been on?

also not strictly speaking true since anyone else could join the game
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