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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #139: Highly Irregular  (Read 6667 times)

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mxdata

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2022, 02:01:17 pm »
+1


Quote
Sacred Rites
$2
Reserve - Reaction
When you buy a Curse, you may call this to trash a card from your hand for +1VP per $1 it costs.
-
When you buy a Copper, you may put this from your hand onto your Tavern mat for +1 Buy.

This works similar to the Ritual event, but with several crucial differences. Like Ritual, it involves gaining a Curse to trash a card from your hand for VP. Unlike Ritual, since it works by calling from the Tavern mat, you can call multiple copies and only gain one Curse - meaning that it would make a strong combo with Fortress! Also unlike Ritual, you end up with two dead cards

I initially had it be gained to your Tavern mat. I also wanted some way to ensure that it wouldn't be a permanent dead card, so I added a Reaction to allow it to be returned to the Tavern mat. I decided on the Copper-buying as the trigger (I didn't want you to be able to put it on your mat while buying something useful - I considered "Copper or Estate" and "a card costing less than $3", but decided that just Copper would be simpler, and "costing less than $3" would include Sacred Rites itself, and in some kingdoms even a useful Kingdom card), then added the +1 Buy to make it easier in games without extra buys. Note that if you have multiple Sacred Rites in hand when you buy a Copper, you can return all of them for +1 Buy each, netting you extra buys. Then I realized that this would let me simplify the card by dropping "this is gained to your Tavern mat", and weaken it a bit, since you would normally have to wait for the shuffle to get it on your Reserve mat

The wording of the reaction is a bit weird, but I couldn't find a better way to word it. I initially just had it as "When you buy a Copper, you may put this on your Tavern mat for +1 Buy", thinking it would be redundant to specify "from your hand", but then I realized that Hovel also specifies "from your hand" for its self-trashing, so I decided it was probably necessary to specify that
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xyz123

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2022, 12:54:44 pm »
0

Quibble
Duration-Reaction
$3

At the start of your next turn +2 Cards
_______________________________________________________________
When any player (including you) gains a Victory card, you may play this from your hand.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 03:07:03 pm by xyz123 »
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BBobb

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2022, 01:55:40 pm »
+2

Quibble
Duration-Reaction
$3

At the start of your next turn +2 Cards
_______________________________________________________________
When any player gains a Victory card, you may play this from your hand.
This seems like it is a bit worse than Black Cat. When you buy a victory card, its better, since its like a den of Sin rather than just plain +2 Cards. However, when another player buys one, Black Cat is much better, giving everyone else a Curse. Also, Black Cat can just be played normally, while Quibble is useless unless someone buys a Victory card.
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xyz123

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2022, 03:05:43 pm »
0

Quibble
Duration-Reaction
$3

At the start of your next turn +2 Cards
_______________________________________________________________
When any player gains a Victory card, you may play this from your hand.
This seems like it is a bit worse than Black Cat. When you buy a victory card, its better, since its like a den of Sin rather than just plain +2 Cards. However, when another player buys one, Black Cat is much better, giving everyone else a Curse. Also, Black Cat can just be played normally, while Quibble is useless unless someone buys a Victory card.

Thanks for the feedback. One thing that I have now made more clear is that you can trigger it yourself by gaining a victory card as well as if another player does so.
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BBobb

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2022, 04:21:13 pm »
0



A card that consistently gives coffers, and can late game be discarded for VP. But when saving up Coffers, you usually want to save them for late game, but then you can't get the VP from here. Not sure on cost or if this is too over/underpowered. Any suggestions on a name welcome!

Also, I'm not sure how the coloring should be, whether it should be 50-50 or all of one color.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2022, 01:44:44 pm by BBobb »
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Gubump

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2022, 05:06:40 pm »
0



I think this needs to be a Reaction and say "...play this from your hand." See Sheepdog and Falconer.
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spineflu

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2022, 05:27:42 pm »
0



I think this needs to be a Reaction and say "...play this from your hand." See Sheepdog and Falconer.

do all the coin tokens have to go on the same spot of the coffers/villagers mat? or can you 50/50 them or what have you?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2022, 02:40:07 am »
+1

Fanfare
Reserve - $3
When you play an Action card, you may first call this for +2 Cards, then return this to the supply
________
When you gain this, put it on your Tavern mat

Edit: Changed wording so the card still works with cards like Armory and Sculptor (I hope)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 07:37:26 pm by NoMoreFun »
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exfret

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2022, 06:03:48 am »
0

EDIT: Okay, hopefully version 4 below is the final one!

I ultimately decided the duration wasn't worth the extra wordiness, so this is my version for the contest now.



EDIT: Even worse, I might revise it again  ;)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 07:20:14 am by exfret »
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mxdata

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2022, 01:39:09 pm »
0

I ultimately decided the duration wasn't worth the extra wordiness, so this is my version for the contest now.



EDIT: Even worse, I might revise it again  ;)

I'm a bit confused how you could ever play any from your hand, since as soon as you gain it, you play it and it goes back to the Supply. So how would it ever be in your hand?
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BBobb

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2022, 01:55:45 pm »
0

I ultimately decided the duration wasn't worth the extra wordiness, so this is my version for the contest now.



EDIT: Even worse, I might revise it again  ;)

I'm a bit confused how you could ever play any from your hand, since as soon as you gain it, you play it and it goes back to the Supply. So how would it ever be in your hand?
I think the intent is that it only returns if you play any from your hand, but as worded it would return immediately when you play it.
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emtzalex

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2022, 01:58:57 pm »
+3

I ultimately decided the duration wasn't worth the extra wordiness, so this is my version for the contest now.



EDIT: Even worse, I might revise it again  ;)

I'm a bit confused how you could ever play any from your hand, since as soon as you gain it, you play it and it goes back to the Supply. So how would it ever be in your hand?

It only returns itself to the Supply if it played one or more copies of itself. The first one you get will never do this, and if you bought another one without the first in your hand that would also go into your deck. Even if you only bought a second one with the first one in your hand, while the second would return itself, the first would not, and you could keep repeating the process.


I ultimately decided the duration wasn't worth the extra wordiness, so this is my version for the contest now.



EDIT: Even worse, I might revise it again  ;)

I'm a bit confused how you could ever play any from your hand, since as soon as you gain it, you play it and it goes back to the Supply. So how would it ever be in your hand?
I think the intent is that it only returns if you play any from your hand, but as worded it would return immediately when you play it.

I'm not sure that's correct. I think the most obvious meaning of the pronoun "any" in
Quote
If you played any, return this to the Supply.
is "Horse Factories from your hand." It is the last thing that "any" could apply to. Thus, I think the second sentence is best understood as 
Quote
If you played any [Horse Factories from your hand], return this to the Supply.
It is, at the very least, ambiguous, and would probably be better phrased as
Quote
If you played any Horse Factories from your hand, return this to the Supply.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 02:05:27 pm by emtzalex »
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Timinou

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2022, 03:55:40 pm »
+2



Wizard's Tower is quite similar to Summon, except it adds a dead card to your deck and more importantly, can be obtained through gainers or remodelers.
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Lackar

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2022, 06:06:09 pm »
0

Hidden Cave
$3 Victory - Reaction

Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back on your deck in any order.
-
2VP
When another player plays an attack card, you may first play this from your hand.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 07:32:12 pm by Lackar »
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mxdata

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2022, 07:11:53 pm »
+1

Hidden Cave
$3 Victory - Reaction

2VP
-
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this from your hand first. Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back on your deck in any order.

Two problems I see here:
1. There's no limit to how many times you can reveal a card as a reaction. This would allow you to go through your deck as many times as you want, which would be especially problematic with cards like Tunnel - you could empty out the Gold pile right away with that - and even without cards like that, you could reveal it as many times as you want to get a perfect next three cards
2. This doesn't put it into play, which was the requirement of the contest

I would suggest the following:

Quote
Hidden Cave
$3 Victory - Reaction

Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back on your deck in any order.
-
2VP
When another player plays an attack card, you may first play this from your hand.
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Lackar

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2022, 07:31:54 pm »
0

Hidden Cave
$3 Victory - Reaction

2VP
-
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this from your hand first. Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back on your deck in any order.

Two problems I see here:
1. There's no limit to how many times you can reveal a card as a reaction. This would allow you to go through your deck as many times as you want, which would be especially problematic with cards like Tunnel - you could empty out the Gold pile right away with that - and even without cards like that, you could reveal it as many times as you want to get a perfect next three cards
2. This doesn't put it into play, which was the requirement of the contest

I would suggest the following:

Quote
Hidden Cave
$3 Victory - Reaction

Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back on your deck in any order.
-
2VP
When another player plays an attack card, you may first play this from your hand.

I see your point, but it can only be revealed on an attack card, so it can't be an endless reaction correct? but yes, you have a more correct way of design so I will edit it
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Augie279

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2022, 07:43:19 pm »
+2

Hidden Cave
$3 Victory - Reaction

2VP
-
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this from your hand first. Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back on your deck in any order.

Two problems I see here:
1. There's no limit to how many times you can reveal a card as a reaction. This would allow you to go through your deck as many times as you want, which would be especially problematic with cards like Tunnel - you could empty out the Gold pile right away with that - and even without cards like that, you could reveal it as many times as you want to get a perfect next three cards
2. This doesn't put it into play, which was the requirement of the contest

I would suggest the following:

Quote
Hidden Cave
$3 Victory - Reaction

Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back on your deck in any order.
-
2VP
When another player plays an attack card, you may first play this from your hand.

I see your point, but it can only be revealed on an attack card, so it can't be an endless reaction correct? but yes, you have a more correct way of design so I will edit it
There's no limit to the number of times you can reveal a Reaction card. Secret Chamber (removed from Intrigue) could be revealed as many times as you wanted to allow you to change which two cards are on top of your deck, and other cards like Horse Traders have below-the-line text that prevents them from being revealed infinitely.
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exfret

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2022, 06:56:22 am »
0

I ultimately decided the duration wasn't worth the extra wordiness, so this is my version for the contest now.



EDIT: Even worse, I might revise it again  ;)

I'm a bit confused how you could ever play any from your hand, since as soon as you gain it, you play it and it goes back to the Supply. So how would it ever be in your hand?

Hm... Yeah, I was trying to find a way to return it to the Supply easily so that you can run off it more easily, but it may make it too complicated and weird. I'll probably get rid of the returning aspect.
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exfret

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2022, 07:21:38 am »
+2

Hopefully the final version now!

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exfret

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2022, 03:53:05 pm »
0

Let us talk about power level. This is Experiment with an extra Buy on top (+) and the option to Labify previous Horse factories (+).
It is more expensive (-) and a potential anti-Lab if the Horse Factories don't collide (respectively you stop going for Horse Factories) (-).

I'd try it at $3 and $4.

Thanks for the feedback! I had it at $3 but bumped it up to $4 before playtesting. It's pretty crazy! Not in a powerful way, but in a more "it can gain a *lot* of horses way". Haven't played with it too much, but the people I've played with didn't like the number of horses it gained, and since that's part of the concept of the card I don't think there's a way to fix it. Let's see what OP has to say when the contest is over though.
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spineflu

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2022, 02:21:03 pm »
+3

oh shoot it's been a full week, huh?
Alright here's the 24 hour warning, then.
Get those entries in.
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Something_Smart

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2022, 12:37:40 am »
+7

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spineflu

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2022, 05:36:51 pm »
+2

alright closing out here; i'll have judgment for yall tomorrow
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mxdata

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2022, 07:23:54 pm »
0



Since it reacts to gaining rather than buying, you could also react to gaining junk from things like Witch, although you couldn't do anything with the +buy. It would have an interesting interaction with Jester - when Jester turns over your opponent's Copper, you could choose to gain it for yourself to trigger Basketmaker's reaction, so that you'd get a $5 card and an extra buy. Black Cat also could be interesting with it. Buy a Victory card. Your opponent reacts with their Black Cat. The Curse you get lets you use Basketmaker (perhaps gaining a Duchy), and you have an extra Buy, which could come in handy if you still have coins left! You might almost hope your opponent uses a Black Cat just for the reaction!
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spineflu

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Re: Contest #139: Highly Irregular
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2022, 02:11:28 pm »
+6

Sorry it took a minute
Here's the judging on 139:


Quote from: JW
Lamb • $3 • Reaction - Duration
Now, or at the start of your next turn, +2 Cards.
-
When you gain a card, you may play this from your hand.
A lower risk sheepdog, one you don't mind proc-ing at the end of the buy phase. I feel like you'll nearly always be able to do the duration-draw thing with it off the buy phase and so it should be priced more comparably to Den of Sin.

Quote from: Augie279
Vacation Spot • $4 • Victory - Duration - Reaction
At the start of each of your turns for the ret of the game: +1 Buy. Worth 2% if in play at the end of the game (Otherwise worth 0%).
-
When you gain a card costing at least $6, you may play this from your hand.
(This stays in play).

I think this would be more interesting if the utility portion of it were opposite the points portion; as is, you just want this in play. It'll see more action in games with expensive cards.

Quote from: emtzalex
A Far Better Thing • $2 • Reserve
When you buy a card, you may call this, to exile that card and to Exile any number of copies of it from your hand.
-
When you gain this, put it on your Tavern mat.
FINALIST
First off, love the theme on this. second off, love how it plays. I do love a good junk card, and a one shot that turns into junk (but plays sort of like Doctor or Ambassador) is going to be a real fun card to play with.

Quote from: mathdude
Medium • $5 • Action
+1 Card
+3 Actions
You may play a Spook card from your hand.
Play any number of Treasures from your hand.
You may buy a Spook card.
~ * ~ * ~
Fiend • $3* • Spook
Choose one: +4 Cards; or +$4. Return this to its pile.
(This is not in the Supply)

I think you should pursue this concept more - Fiend is... kinda mid, considering you need to collide it with Medium to play it. Like the +4 Cards is neat, but the +$4 is just a more annoying spoils, yknow? But the idea of a card that lets you buy / play otherwise OP cards, that's neat and you should do more with it.

Quote from: 4est
Ark • $3* • Victory - Duration
2%
-
When you gain this, play it. While this is in play, opponents may buy this for $3 more.
FINALIST
I love this concept. I think the political aspect in 3+p games that you mention will make it unfun for some dominion players, but I think it's cool. It'll be real feelsbad in cost reduction games tho - might want to consider making it cost debt?

Quote from: Xen3k
Land Rush • $4 • Reaction
+1 Buy
Play any number of Victory cards from your hand.
+$2 per Victory card played.
-
When you gain a Victory card, you may play this from your hand.
I think I'd like this better if it didn't play the Victory cards but instead did the $7 castle thing of discarding them for $2 each, just because, there's established functionality on things like Bonfire that prevent it from being a way to trash estates.

Quote from: arowdok
Futures • $4 • Duration - Reserve
When you gain a Victory card, you may call this. At the start of your next turn, return this to the Supply, +1 Buy and +$4.
-
When you gain this, put this on your Tavern mat
FINALIST
So this reserves its own price and buy for later. Neat. At first I was comparing it to Feast but no, this is a very aggressive greener - wait until you buy one province, then call four or so of these and piledrive the provinces. Extremely cool.

Quote from: mxdata
Sacred Rites • $2 • Reserve - Reaction
When you buy a Curse, you may call this to trash a card from your hand for +1% per $1 it costs.
-
When you buy a Copper, you may put this from your hand onto your Tavern mat for +1 Buy.
Kind of an awkward card. I feel like the VP boost from ritual is only borderline worth it, most times. If I had to get a copper to use it, it almost always wouldn't be.

Quote from: xyz123
Quibble • $3 • Duration - Reaction
At the start of your next turn +2 Cards
-
When any player (including you) gains a Victory card, you may play this from your hand.
I wouldn't buy this at $3. Maybe having it at $1 would be better - changes up the game similar to Poor House in Upgrade/Remodel situations.

Quote from: segura
Shipwreck Cove • $4 • Victory - Duration
When any player, including you, gains a Victory card, you may play this.
-
While this is in play, it is worth 2%. At the start of your turn, you may discard this to take all tokens from this and put them anywhere on your Coffers/Villagers mat. If you don't, put a Coin token on this.
First off, Gubump is right, this should be a Reaction. That said, there's some neat stuff here. It has a bit of a Sinister Plot vibe. I think it would be better without the VP and Victory type. Less of a first mover advantage.

Quote from: NoMoreFun
Fanfare • $3 • Reserve
When you play an Action card, you may first call this for +2 Cards, then return this to the supply
-
When you gain this, put it on your Tavern mat
I feel like this and Expedition are occupying a very similar game space. Like, this is probably the most event-y entry of these.

Quote from: Timinou
Wizard's Tower • $5 • Victory - Duration
2%
-
When you gain this, play this and gain an Action card costing up to $4, setting it aside on this. Play it at the start of your next turn.
FINALIST
Yeah this is good. I like it. Border Village but it's a Summon. You could make it a little less sensitive to cost reduction by doing the BoM/Falconer "costs less than this" thing.

Quote from: Lackar
Hidden Cave • $3 • Victory - Reaction
Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back on your deck in any order.
-
2%
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first play this from your hand.
I like this. I'd replace Tunnel with this. It's neat to have defense cards that interact primarily with certain types of attacks (in this case, Rabble/topdeck attacks).


Quote from: exfret
Horse Factory • $4 • Confusion
Gain 2 Horses. You may return this to the Supply.
-
When you gain this, +1 Buy, then you may play this and any number of Horse Factories from your hand.
I feel like this has an induction problem, which is, why would you ever not just play it right away for two horses and getting the junk out of your deck? Like it's just worse Experiment that happens to be buy-neutral. Something where this accounted for other Horses/Horse Factories you've played this turn would've been better (so that there was a reason to keep it in your deck).

Quote from: Something_Smart
Basketmaker • $4 • Reaction
+1 Buy
Gain a card costing up to $5
-
When you gain a card costing $0, you may play this from your hand.
I both like and hate how this card interacts with cost reduction. Like in a game with Highway and Witch, you almost don't want to play your witch because people will scoop up provinces out-of-turn with this. Even in a self-junking scenario (which I think is how you're intending it to normally proc), stacking up a couple of these, buying a copper, and emptying the duchies seems real powerful.



Honorable Mentions:
Timinou's Wizard's Tower
arowdok's Futures

Runner up:
4est's Ark

Winner:
emtzalex's A Far Better Thing
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