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Author Topic: New Ruins and Looter Ideas  (Read 376 times)

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RobinHoodjr

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New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« on: November 17, 2021, 03:39:50 pm »
+2

Here are my ideas for 3 more Ruins, and a fix to an existing Ruin:

Ruins are inspired from base Dominion set, buildings rather than people.

- 3 new Ruins
- - Abandoned Chapel = "You may trash up to 2 cards from your hand" - Two fewer cards to trash than Chapel, costs 2 less
- - Ruined Workshop = "Gain a card from the trash worth up to $4" - Trash has mostly worthless cards, unless...
- - Vacant Throne = "You may play a Ruins card from your hand twice" - Meh, unless you have other Ruins you want to play...

- "Fix" to existing:
- - Ruined Village = "+2 Actions; Discard a card." - This makes sense since Necropolis is worth $1. Now not totally worthless

2 new Looters:

The problem with Looters is, there doesn't seem to be enough. I basically repurposed broken or overpowered cards.
2 new Looters (same artwork as removed Saboteur; Donald X has commented that Rebuild should be removed in future.)
- - Saboteur ($4) = "+$2; Each other player either discards 2 cards or gains a Ruins to their hand, their choice. (They may pick an option they can't do.)"  A hybrid of Militia and Torturer. The artwork seems to inspire Ruins.
- - Rebuild ($5) = "Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to 2 more than it. If the gained card is an Action or Treasure, put it onto your deck; if it's a Victory card, each other player gains a Ruins." A variant of Replace.

My apologies if someone has posted ideas along these lines before, I haven't read everything here.  (Also, I don't know how to attach images.)

Enjoy!
Nate

"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" - my Mom
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X-tra

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2021, 04:19:10 pm »
+4

Abandoned Chapel: I think this card is problematic. First of all, it is significantly stronger than other existing Ruins. Trashing 2 cards from your hand is not an underpowered effect by any means. Compare to Trade Route, a 1 card thinner costing that does nothing for you early on. But the main issue is, it's a solution for the other junky Ruins. If you so happen to have received an Abandoned Chapel via an opponent's Cultist, for instance, in a no trashing board, then you have a way out, whereas other players might not. You got lucky and gained the only trasher. Ruined Market has that problem too somewhat, what with it being the only +Buy in a given Kingdom. However, Ruined Market offers a nice minigame of fishing for it despite its opportunity cost. Plus, it is not as mandatory as what could be the only thinner in a game that offers junking and that's the beef I have with Abandoned Chapel.

Ruined Workshop: I like this! I'd toss Survivors out and slot in Ruined Workshop. Fits way more with the other Ruins thematically too. A poor gainer for sure, but y'know. All other Ruins are poor something. So this is pretty nifty.

Vacant Throne: I'm mostly meh on this. Collision problem of Throne Room buffed a notch. Which I guess makes it ok for a Ruins. I'd test it a bit to see how often, if ever, the effect gets used.

Ruined Village: Awwww... but I like the straight "+1 Action"... very thematic with the other Looters, minus Survivors. I agree that the current version of Ruined Village is the worst of the bunch, though.

Saboteur: I like the Attack. However, I'd consider making this cost . Otherwise, well... I just imagine that one 4-player game where everyone opens Saboteur. Gotta lock it behind a higher price point for it to not get degenerate! If that's the case however, I'd buff up the vanilla bonus to +. Less good in your engine than Torturer, but decent payload nonetheless. Just an idea!

Rebuild: This is almost strictly weaker than the aforementioned Replace. Usually, Ruins -> Curses. The difference is not much and in most games, it hardly matters, but it's there nonetheless. Thus, this is just a copy of Replace, but a weaker coat of paint. There would need to be a little extra something to balance it proper, imo


All in all, pretty good ideas! I do agree that Looters are too rare, even within Dark Ages. More Looters = more use of your 60 Ruins!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 10:04:26 am by X-tra »
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RobinHoodjr

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2021, 09:54:36 pm »
+1

THANKS for your feedback! I abbreviated some of your response to just portions I am going to comment on below.

Abandoned Chapel: I think this card is problematic. First of all, it is significantly stronger than other existing Ruins. Trashing 2 cards from your hand is not an underpowered effect by any means.

Ruined Village: Awwww... but I like the straight "+1 Action"... very thematic with the other Looters, minus Survivors. I agree that the current version of Ruined Village is the worst of the bunch, though.

Saboteur: I like the Attack. However, I'd consider making this cost .

Rebuild: This is almost strictly weaker than the aforementioned Replace.

- Abandoned Chapel - I agree it is powerful, although Chapel is powerful also.  What if it only trashes 1 card, instead of up to 2? That might be more consistent with the "one of something" that the other Ruins offer. I'm drifting towards that... or go the other route and drop the may from original chapel to "Trash your hand. " (in case they have less than 4 cards.)

- Saboteur - I hear your concerns. It could be $5. Militia was 4 but can't be chained in the same way that Torturer can.

- Rebuild - If it was $4, it would be strictly better than Remodel so I had to make it $5. You are right it is missing something.  How about "Each other player gains a Ruins", victory card or not.

- Ruined Village - Hmm... or we could rename it "Crumbling Walls" with the text, "At the start of Clean-up, if you have this and no more than one other Action card in play, you may put that Action onto your deck."

You mentioned Survivors... kind of wish Survivors was a Reaction instead of an Action... something like, "When another player plays an Attack card, you may ... ". Basically enables other cards to "Survive."  They went thru the fire, now bringing buckets back to help others.

Happy gaming!
Nate

« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 05:14:32 am by RobinHoodjr »
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LaLight

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2021, 09:22:57 am »
+3

what if Abandoned Chapel trashed a card from your hand and itself?
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spineflu

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2021, 09:52:20 am »
+1

the problem with abandoned chapel is that it's potentially only one player that gets the benefit - same reason goat is attached to pixie and sacred grove shares the boon, so Flames Gift is less swingy.
The fix for it is both to scale it down in power - 2 cards trashed is still like how Remodel deals with Coppers, which is to say, well, too good for a ruin - and to open it up to other players for dejunking like Bishop does.

so something like
Quote
Abandoned Chapel - $0 - Action - Ruin
Trash a card from your hand. Each other player may trash a card from their hand.

X-tra

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2021, 10:04:16 am »
+1

I like both ideas to reshape Abandoned Chapel. I do love the suggestion of having it trash itself, plus a card from your hand. This is like Bomb from Gunpowder, lol.

As a side note, a Reaction Survivors sounds like a pretty appealing idea to me! I'd love to try such a card.
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RobinHoodjr

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2021, 03:22:43 pm »
0

the problem with abandoned chapel is that it's potentially only one player that gets the benefit - same reason goat is attached to pixie and sacred grove shares the boon, so Flames Gift is less swingy.
The fix for it is both to scale it down in power - 2 cards trashed is still like how Remodel deals with Coppers, which is to say, well, too good for a ruin - and to open it up to other players for dejunking like Bishop does.

so something like
Quote
Abandoned Chapel - $0 - Action - Ruin
Trash a card from your hand. Each other player may trash a card from their hand.

I hear you about making things "uneven".  With my mods, the Ruins might be more like Prizes for dumpster-diving than penalties lol
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scolapasta

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2021, 03:35:29 pm »
+1

What if it were just:

Quote
Abandoned Chapel - $0 - Action - Ruin
Trash this.


It still trashes something (itself), but now there's no actual advantage to being the only one to get this.
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spineflu

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2021, 03:54:09 pm »
+2

What if it were just:

Quote
Abandoned Chapel - $0 - Action - Ruin
Trash this.


It still trashes something (itself), but now there's no actual advantage to being the only one to get this.
I think this has an advantage over the other ruins then - it vanishes, so playing it is always helpful (remove a junk card) rather than kinda-helpful like the rest of them

octelium

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Re: New Ruins and Looter Ideas
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2021, 12:40:59 am »
0

For Abandoned Chapel -- Trash a card costing 3 or more.
It trashes stuff but basically is not good
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