Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law  (Read 1131 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« on: November 11, 2021, 01:51:44 pm »
+4

Laws are landscapes that come in sets of 3 4, and provide any effect that will apply to a player's turn.

The rules are as follows:
  • No more than one set of Laws should be used per game
  • Each player will have a wooden cube in their colour to track which Law will apply on their turn
  • Starting on Turn 3, at the start of each player's turn, that player will place their wooden cube on one of the available Laws
  • In a 2-player game, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains the other player's cube.  In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes. In a game with 6 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains three cubes In a game with 3-6 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes.
  • You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn if you can
  • The effects only apply to the active player even if an opponent's cube is on the same Law
  • Laws can have effects that apply to any phase of the player's turn

Below is an example of a set of Laws that is quite simple and straightforward:


However, I think the design space can be fairly large and so you could have more complex effects:


The cards above are not necessarily fun, interesting or balanced; they're just examples that I came up with fairly quickly.  I'm looking forward to seeing where you go with this!

You can find the card image generator template for Laws here.

You may decide to tweak any of the rules above; please just make sure it is clear in your submission which rule(s) you are tweaking.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 11:51:14 am by Timinou »
Logged

emtzalex

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 417
  • Respect: +589
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2021, 03:58:40 pm »
+4

Laws are landscapes that come in sets of 3, and provide any effect that will apply to a player's turn.

The rules are as follows:
  • Each player will have a wooden cube in their colour to track which Law will apply on their turn
  • Starting on Turn 3, at the start of each player's turn, that player will place their wooden cube on one of the available Laws
  • In a 2-player game, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains the other player's cube.  In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes. In a game with 6 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains three cubes
  • You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn

I really like this concept, but I think there is a bit of an issue with this implementation. In a 2 player game, after Turn 3, no one gets to choose where their cube goes. At the start of each turn after that, there is (a) the Law your cube is on, (b) the Law your opponent's cube is on, and (c) the Law with no cube on it. Under these rules, your only "choice" is to move your cube to (c).

In a 5 player game, is be impossible to follow those rules in one situation. If at the start of your turn (after all the cubes are down) your cube is alone on a Law, that means that each other Law has 2 cubes on it. At that point, you either have to violate the rule that "In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes" or the rule that "You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn" but you cannot follow both.

I don't immediately have a solution that I love for these. The most obvious would be to make it so there are 4 Laws in a set, but that seems like it might be too much. You could fix the issue with the 5 player game by allowing 3 cubes per Law, and just leave the 2 player rule, but it will make the mechanic play radically differently in 2 versus 3+ player games.
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2021, 04:34:32 pm »
+2

Laws are landscapes that come in sets of 3, and provide any effect that will apply to a player's turn.

The rules are as follows:
  • Each player will have a wooden cube in their colour to track which Law will apply on their turn
  • Starting on Turn 3, at the start of each player's turn, that player will place their wooden cube on one of the available Laws
  • In a 2-player game, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains the other player's cube.  In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes. In a game with 6 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains three cubes
  • You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn

I really like this concept, but I think there is a bit of an issue with this implementation. In a 2 player game, after Turn 3, no one gets to choose where their cube goes. At the start of each turn after that, there is (a) the Law your cube is on, (b) the Law your opponent's cube is on, and (c) the Law with no cube on it. Under these rules, your only "choice" is to move your cube to (c).

In a 5 player game, is be impossible to follow those rules in one situation. If at the start of your turn (after all the cubes are down) your cube is alone on a Law, that means that each other Law has 2 cubes on it. At that point, you either have to violate the rule that "In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes" or the rule that "You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn" but you cannot follow both.

I don't immediately have a solution that I love for these. The most obvious would be to make it so there are 4 Laws in a set, but that seems like it might be too much. You could fix the issue with the 5 player game by allowing 3 cubes per Law, and just leave the 2 player rule, but it will make the mechanic play radically differently in 2 versus 3+ player games.

Thanks for the feedback.

Good catch on the lack of choice for 2-player games.  I think you're right that the most obvious fix is to increase the number of Laws per set to 4, so that you have 2 Laws to choose from.   

I think for the scenario in the 5-player game that you mentioned, perhaps the rule should be tweaked to say you must move "you must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn if you can"

Scaling this well based on the number of players is difficult, but I think Dominion already becomes a very different game at more than 3 players.
Logged

grrgrrgrr

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 217
  • Respect: +277
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2021, 08:34:07 am »
+1

Laws are landscapes that come in sets of 3, and provide any effect that will apply to a player's turn.

The rules are as follows:
  • Each player will have a wooden cube in their colour to track which Law will apply on their turn
  • Starting on Turn 3, at the start of each player's turn, that player will place their wooden cube on one of the available Laws
  • In a 2-player game, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains the other player's cube.  In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes. In a game with 6 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains three cubes
  • You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn

I really like this concept, but I think there is a bit of an issue with this implementation. In a 2 player game, after Turn 3, no one gets to choose where their cube goes. At the start of each turn after that, there is (a) the Law your cube is on, (b) the Law your opponent's cube is on, and (c) the Law with no cube on it. Under these rules, your only "choice" is to move your cube to (c).

In a 5 player game, is be impossible to follow those rules in one situation. If at the start of your turn (after all the cubes are down) your cube is alone on a Law, that means that each other Law has 2 cubes on it. At that point, you either have to violate the rule that "In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes" or the rule that "You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn" but you cannot follow both.

I don't immediately have a solution that I love for these. The most obvious would be to make it so there are 4 Laws in a set, but that seems like it might be too much. You could fix the issue with the 5 player game by allowing 3 cubes per Law, and just leave the 2 player rule, but it will make the mechanic play radically differently in 2 versus 3+ player games.

Thanks for the feedback.

Good catch on the lack of choice for 2-player games.  I think you're right that the most obvious fix is to increase the number of Laws per set to 4, so that you have 2 Laws to choose from.   

I think for the scenario in the 5-player game that you mentioned, perhaps the rule should be tweaked to say you must move "you must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn if you can"

Scaling this well based on the number of players is difficult, but I think Dominion already becomes a very different game at more than 3 players.

Another solution is to not outright forbid choosing the same law as the opponent, but instead make the player you copy gain a reward such as a Horse. Of course, this has its own complications regarding first player advantage.

At any rate, you are free to pretend Dominion is a 2-4 player game.
Logged

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2021, 08:57:36 am »
+1

Laws are landscapes that come in sets of 3, and provide any effect that will apply to a player's turn.

The rules are as follows:
  • Each player will have a wooden cube in their colour to track which Law will apply on their turn
  • Starting on Turn 3, at the start of each player's turn, that player will place their wooden cube on one of the available Laws
  • In a 2-player game, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains the other player's cube.  In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes. In a game with 6 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains three cubes
  • You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn

I really like this concept, but I think there is a bit of an issue with this implementation. In a 2 player game, after Turn 3, no one gets to choose where their cube goes. At the start of each turn after that, there is (a) the Law your cube is on, (b) the Law your opponent's cube is on, and (c) the Law with no cube on it. Under these rules, your only "choice" is to move your cube to (c).

In a 5 player game, is be impossible to follow those rules in one situation. If at the start of your turn (after all the cubes are down) your cube is alone on a Law, that means that each other Law has 2 cubes on it. At that point, you either have to violate the rule that "In a game with 3-5 players, players cannot place their cube on a Law that already contains two cubes" or the rule that "You must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn" but you cannot follow both.

I don't immediately have a solution that I love for these. The most obvious would be to make it so there are 4 Laws in a set, but that seems like it might be too much. You could fix the issue with the 5 player game by allowing 3 cubes per Law, and just leave the 2 player rule, but it will make the mechanic play radically differently in 2 versus 3+ player games.

Thanks for the feedback.

Good catch on the lack of choice for 2-player games.  I think you're right that the most obvious fix is to increase the number of Laws per set to 4, so that you have 2 Laws to choose from.   

I think for the scenario in the 5-player game that you mentioned, perhaps the rule should be tweaked to say you must move "you must move your cube to a different Law at the start of your turn if you can"

Scaling this well based on the number of players is difficult, but I think Dominion already becomes a very different game at more than 3 players.

Another solution is to not outright forbid choosing the same law as the opponent, but instead make the player you copy gain a reward such as a Horse. Of course, this has its own complications regarding first player advantage.

At any rate, you are free to pretend Dominion is a 2-4 player game.

I've changed the rule so that the default number of cards per set is 4.

However, I will permit rule changes - so for instance if you would like to allow players to break the placement rules if there is an reward for their opponents, that would be possible.
Logged

emtzalex

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 417
  • Respect: +589
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2021, 10:15:12 am »
0

Do you have a Custom Color you would prefer for us to use?
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2021, 10:30:52 am »
+1

Do you have a Custom Color you would prefer for us to use?

Yes, if you wish to use the same colour scheme as in the OP, you can use this template.
Logged

Aquila

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 471
  • Respect: +650
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2021, 05:16:31 pm »
+1

This mechanic should add interest to the game if done right, but there's also the potential to take it away. It's a good challenge!

Firstly, I think I prefer to call them Policies, since they're a bit more open than laws. You can't really choose which law to obey, but you can follow different policies.
Secondly, I assume they will be included in games randomly along with WELPs, with one set being one of the recommended 2 landscapes?
Thirdly, I agree to 4 per set with one cube denial for 2 player and two for 3+.
In any case, some design observations:
  • They add a bit of player interaction and more poignantly make each turn different, so they can move games away from exact mirrors.
  • One player can get one effect at most every other turn.
  • They should all be on the same power level, and each be relevant in every game (maybe one could get away with being niche), so the choosing is always interesting.
  • Keep an eye on first player advantage. Effects that are strong early may be best made available on 2 or more Laws/Policies.
  • Speaking of power level, they're free global effects. More positive effects will definitely speed the game up more, and negative slow it down. They could each have a positive and negative to them, but, they should probably be all positive, all negative or all mix, so there's no sting of all the positives being unavailable.
  • Adding some kind of cost might often be necessary to open up a stronger positive effect without losing game balance.
  • If effects are made to come in later game (e.g checking for empty Supply piles) the choosing aspect is lessened and an ideal game course can be set up.
  • Effects requiring another mechanic to be present in order to work can be done if another one of the Laws/Policies makes it happen.
I focused on this last point and made a set about the trash:
Quote
Secrets Best Kept - Policy
At the start of your turn, Exile a card from the trash that doesn't cost $8 or more.
Quote
One Man's Trash - Policy
At the start of your turn, trash a card from your hand for +1 Buy.
Quote
Another Man's Treasure - Policy
At the start of your turn: you may trash a card from your hand. Gain a card from the trash to your hand.
Quote
Risk Assessment - Policy
At the start of your turn, trash the top 2 cards of your deck, then gain 1 or 2 cards from the trash onto your deck in any order.
One Man's Trash and Risk Assessment are the only 2 that thin the deck, so they will likely be the hot focus. Sometimes Exiling an Estate, borrowing a Copper, knowing the top of your deck or getting a crucial +Buy is best. And there are times when you don't want to do anything, and there are 3 that can effectively do that.
Of course nice things can visit the trash in some games, but I suspect this will make players think twice about tfb strategies.

So, this set overall gives a quaint bit of interest to the game, making the trash much more of a shared pool of cards. For being completely free, I think it should be quaint.

Edit: limited Secrets Best Kept as per comment below.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 04:16:28 am by Aquila »
Logged

segura

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1267
  • Respect: +768
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2021, 07:39:20 am »
0

I donít like the first one as there are obvious broken combos with TfB and Provinces.
Logged

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +201
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2021, 12:55:07 pm »
0

Oh boy, another new landscape. These are always the hardes to make good ones for. And aren't these just edicts with extra steps?
Logged

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +201
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2021, 01:00:53 pm »
0

How many laws are set out per game? N + 1? All of them?
Logged

Mahowrath

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 84
  • Respect: +177
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2021, 07:10:25 am »
0

Question: if I made a set of laws concerning the playing of zombies, would I be able to include a 4th zombie from wdc 109, or would that count as reusing an entry?
Logged

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2021, 09:47:17 am »
+1

This mechanic should add interest to the game if done right, but there's also the potential to take it away. It's a good challenge!

Firstly, I think I prefer to call them Policies, since they're a bit more open than laws. You can't really choose which law to obey, but you can follow different policies.
Secondly, I assume they will be included in games randomly along with WELPs, with one set being one of the recommended 2 landscapes?
Thirdly, I agree to 4 per set with one cube denial for 2 player and two for 3+.
In any case, some design observations:
  • They add a bit of player interaction and more poignantly make each turn different, so they can move games away from exact mirrors.
  • One player can get one effect at most every other turn.
  • They should all be on the same power level, and each be relevant in every game (maybe one could get away with being niche), so the choosing is always interesting.
  • Keep an eye on first player advantage. Effects that are strong early may be best made available on 2 or more Laws/Policies.
  • Speaking of power level, they're free global effects. More positive effects will definitely speed the game up more, and negative slow it down. They could each have a positive and negative to them, but, they should probably be all positive, all negative or all mix, so there's no sting of all the positives being unavailable.
  • Adding some kind of cost might often be necessary to open up a stronger positive effect without losing game balance.
  • If effects are made to come in later game (e.g checking for empty Supply piles) the choosing aspect is lessened and an ideal game course can be set up.
  • Effects requiring another mechanic to be present in order to work can be done if another one of the Laws/Policies makes it happen.

Thanks for the comments about the mechanic.  I was having trouble coming up with a good name (I even considered Decree).  You don't get to choose which Laws to follow, but I was thinking about it more from the perspective of being able to choose which laws to set (since we are playing as monarchs). However, I like Policies as a name too.

Oh boy, another new landscape. These are always the hardes to make good ones for. And aren't these just edicts with extra steps?

There are similarities to Edicts, but of course the main difference is that Laws are not permanent effects, which I think has the potential to impact gameplay in meaningful ways as Aquila pointed out.

How many laws are set out per game? N + 1? All of them?

All of the laws in a given set should be used regardless of player count, and only one set of Laws per game.  However, you are welcome to modify this if you wish (e.g. if you want the number of laws that are used to be variable based on the player count).

Question: if I made a set of laws concerning the playing of zombies, would I be able to include a 4th zombie from wdc 109, or would that count as reusing an entry?

I don't have any issue with that.
Logged

scolapasta

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 533
  • Respect: +662
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2021, 10:29:25 am »
0

Logistically, there should be some way to identify Laws / Policies that go together. I mean as fan cards we don't *have* to, but imagine if this was ever in an official printed set; you'd want to quickly be able to identify all the Laws / Policies from the set you want to use, while only using one from each as a randomizer.

So maybe thematically, the laws in the OP could be the "type" of Law / Policy, with the actual individual Laws / Policies being more specific names. For example for Employment Law, you'd have "at-will", "unionized" etc...

Of course the issue with that is that's a lot of characters for the small diagonal... :/

But some way to group would make this feel more fleshed out, for me, at least.
Logged
Feel free to join us at scolapasta's cards for discussion on any of my custom cards.

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2021, 11:06:08 am »
0

Logistically, there should be some way to identify Laws / Policies that go together. I mean as fan cards we don't *have* to, but imagine if this was ever in an official printed set; you'd want to quickly be able to identify all the Laws / Policies from the set you want to use, while only using one from each as a randomizer.

So maybe thematically, the laws in the OP could be the "type" of Law / Policy, with the actual individual Laws / Policies being more specific names. For example for Employment Law, you'd have "at-will", "unionized" etc...

Of course the issue with that is that's a lot of characters for the small diagonal... :/

But some way to group would make this feel more fleshed out, for me, at least.

It could be done with a symbol at the bottom right that is unique to each set.
Logged

emtzalex

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 417
  • Respect: +589
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2021, 10:55:09 am »
+2

My Submission:

       
       

Quote from: Succession
Succession - Law
At the start of your turn, you may set aside a non-Command Action card from your hand costing up to $4.

Quote from: Primogeniture
Primogeniture - Law*
During your turn, Duchies are also Actions with "Play one of your set aside cards, leaving it there."

Quote from: Dead Hand
Dead Hand - Law*
During your turn, Curses are also Actions with "Play one of your set aside cards, leaving it there."

Quote from: Estate Tax
Estate Tax - Law*
During your turn, when you play a copy of one of your set aside cards, +$1.



The area of law that my design features is Wills and Estates. Thus, my Laws are a take on Inheritance. Succession (in addition to checking the pop culture reference box) allows the player plan, setting aside cards for later. Primogeniture turns Duchies into Actions that can play the set aside cards, while Dead Hand does the same with Curses. Estate Tax is similar to Training, giving +$1 when one of the set aside cards is played.

If they were active every turn, Primogeniture, Estate Tax, and (to a lesser extent) Dead Hand would be much too powerful. Turning Duchies into anything other than a dead card makes buying them much too easy, and the fact that a player could set aside, say, a village and a Smithy potentially makes them strictly better (by a lot) than Nobles. Similarly, a version of Training that can go on multiple cards (even if a player has to forego one copy of each) would also be absurd. However, the interesting thing about Laws is that, at most, you can only have access to them every other turn, and may get them less frequently. For example, in a 2 player game where a particular Law is actively contested by both players, you would only get it once every three turns:
  • Turn n+1 Player 1 takes the Law, Player 2 can't (because Player 1 has it)
  • Turn n+2 Player 1 vacates the law and Player 2 takes it
  • Turn n+3 Player 1 can't take the law (because Player 2 has it), Player 2 vacates the law
  • Turn n+4 (the process starts over)
 
This makes designing a strategy around any one Law much more difficult. Also, the fact that the player has to set aside an Action card from their hand (rather than from the Supply like Inheritance) means that they have to forego a card that they can always play for one that they can only sometimes play. Here, if a strategy involving Duchies was potentially viable anyway, being able to use them as action cards even 1/3 of the time would be a huge benefit. But it should not turn such a strategy into the only viable one. Similarly, the infrequency with which a player may use Dead Hand should not make Cursers unbuyable in most cases.

I was a bit concerned by the first player advantage that this would give. However, absent Cursed Gold players are rarely going to have any Curses or Duchies by Turn 3, so the ability to use Succession then (versus on Turn 4) should not be a huge advantage. (And, of course, there is no guarantee Player 1 will have an Action card in their Turn 3 hand).

There are some additional uses for these, aside from the obvious. Succession can thin Actions that are no longer useful (e.g. trashers once your deck is thinned) or that never were (i.e. Ruins, Necropolis {sometimes}). In a game with a Way, Primogeniture and Dead Hand can make Duchies and Curses useful, even if you haven't set aside a card. And with Way of the Horse or Way of the Butterfly, actually lets you get rid of those Curses (although they go back to the Supply, from where they can be distributed again). This actually creates a bit of an issue with Way of the Turtle, as on subsequent turns the card is no longer a Action. My on-the-spot solution/ruling is that on the next turn the card gets played, and put into play, but since it is no longer an Action the player cannot use WotT again, so the card does nothing and will be discarded at the end of the turn.

My suggestion to address the issue raised by scolapasta is to choose one of the Laws to be the "primary" law, and using the Heirloom bar to put the names of the related Laws on it, while putting an asterisk on the type for the others.

To the extent that these exist in a universe with multiple cards with the Curse type (e.g. my last submission), the FAQ/specific card notes for Dead Hand would clarify that it refers to Curse the card, not the type.
Logged
he/him/his

Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

spineflu

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1199
  • Shuffle iT Username: spineflu
  • Head Empty, Heart Worms, Can't Lose
  • Respect: +1011
    • View Profile
    • my instagram, where i paint things
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2021, 04:07:07 pm »
+1

My rule changes:
I called them Bromides (after the idioms that are kind of a mental shortcut around an idea). See what Aquila wrote on this upthread for why I did this.
You use one more than there are players (shuffled, selected randomly, return the rest to the box).
You can't select a thing that has someone else's cube on it.
The targeting/effects are specified by the cards (meaning other players can be affected) and done at the start of your turn (same time as like, many duration cards).
They start the turn after someone shuffles for the first time. This means usually, turn 3; but in niche cases, could be turn 2, or the first player doesn't get the first pick.

Kept rules:
per player wooden cubes.

Notes:
I tried to keep this pretty vanilla. Naturally, this means making you pull components from Menagerie and Renaissance to use them.





« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 04:16:52 pm by spineflu »
Logged

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +201
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2021, 05:38:08 am »
0

Okay so I don't know if this is allowed, but I made a similar concept called Traits with different rules than Laws, but I realized the card names/art and effect could easily reinterpreted to be laws. I don't have time to re-format these cards, so if you would oblige me, ignore the types on these cards and pretend they say laws. Naming-wise they are similar to your laws in the OP, but I agree they sound more like the names of policies than laws. The effects are also all intended to be significantly weaker, weaker than even one vanilla bonus per turn.


Also, pretend sagacious says "once per game", it was a change I was going to make anyway, but as I said this week is too buys for me to reformat these.
Logged

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2021, 05:28:14 pm »
0

Okay so I don't know if this is allowed, but I made a similar concept called Traits with different rules than Laws, but I realized the card names/art and effect could easily reinterpreted to be laws. I don't have time to re-format these cards, so if you would oblige me, ignore the types on these cards and pretend they say laws. Naming-wise they are similar to your laws in the OP, but I agree they sound more like the names of policies than laws. The effects are also all intended to be significantly weaker, weaker than even one vanilla bonus per turn.

How many of these cards are you proposing would be available in each game?  All of them, or would you randomly select a certain number to be used?
Logged

The Alchemist

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +201
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2021, 08:02:55 pm »
0

Okay so I don't know if this is allowed, but I made a similar concept called Traits with different rules than Laws, but I realized the card names/art and effect could easily reinterpreted to be laws. I don't have time to re-format these cards, so if you would oblige me, ignore the types on these cards and pretend they say laws. Naming-wise they are similar to your laws in the OP, but I agree they sound more like the names of policies than laws. The effects are also all intended to be significantly weaker, weaker than even one vanilla bonus per turn.

How many of these cards are you proposing would be available in each game?  All of them, or would you randomly select a certain number to be used?

In their original implementation, it was number of players +1 set out (randomly selected out of 12, 2 copies of each trait), and the players would draft them at the start of the game in reverse turn order. Since your rules say a set consists of 4 laws, I guess you would just randomly pick 4 out of the 6 at the start of the game.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 08:04:20 pm by The Alchemist »
Logged

Mahowrath

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 84
  • Respect: +177
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2021, 08:14:10 pm »
0

My entry:
Necromantic Law:
Setup: Put the 3 Zombies and Zombie Summoner into the trash

Quote
Policy: Apprenticeship
When you take this, play the Zombie Apprentice from the trash, leaving it there
When you return this, discard down to 4 cards in hand

Quote
Policy: Construction
When you take this, play the Zombie Mason from the trash, leaving it there
When you return this with 4 or more cards in hand, put a card from your hand onto your deck

Quote
Policy: Surveillance
When you take this, play the Zombie Spy from the trash, leaving it there
When you return this, take your -1 Coin token

Quote
Policy: Summoning
When you take this, play the Zombie Summoner from the trash, leaving it there
When you return this, take your -1 Card token

Zombie Summoner:


Quote
Zombie Summoner - $3
Action - Zombie

+$1
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). Then if it's face up, gain an Imp.

Necromantic law; a set of policies that play zombies from the trash at the start of your turn, with handicaps to avoid overly accelerating the game.
Omitted Necromancer's face-down clause because explicit zombies shouldn't loop. Taking a new policy and returning your old one at the start of your turn is still mandatory.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 08:19:21 pm by Mahowrath »
Logged

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2021, 09:10:14 am »
0

I realize I didn't mention when the contest would close in the OP, but since it's supposed to be a weekly contest and it's already been over a week...
24 Hour Warning

So far I see submissions from Aquila, emtzalex, spineflu, The Alchemist, and Mahowrath.
Logged

Aquila

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 471
  • Respect: +650
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2021, 04:30:02 am »
0

I donít like the first one as there are obvious broken combos with TfB and Provinces.

Edited Secrets Best Kept to not Exile cards costing $8+. I feel Provinces and Colonies are the only main problem because of the work needed to pull off the combos for yourself; you'd have to get a tfb played at start of turn together with a Bridge effect. Canal or Bridge Troll and Captain-Remodel with Province in starting hand is the simplest way, or Turtled Bridge and tfb, but they're fairly costly.
Logged

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2021, 04:09:30 pm »
+2

Submissions Closed.


I will aim to have the judging done by tomorrow evening.
Logged

Timinou

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 444
  • Respect: +543
    • View Profile
Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 23: Laying Down The Law
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2021, 01:33:53 am »
+1

JUDGEMENT

Thank you all for your submissions!

Aquila's Policies (Secrets Best Kept, One Man's Trash, Another Man's Treasure, Risk Assessment)
Secrets Best Kept can be a free Way of the Worm if there are Estates in the trash but will usually be less interesting if there are only Coppers in the trash (unless there are cards like Gardens or Fountain in the Kingdom).
One Man's Trash seems quite strong with the trashing from hand and +1 Buy.  It will probably be the most appealing of the bunch, and could lead to interesting decisions in Kingdoms without +Buy especially if you don't have any junk in hand to trash at the start of your turn but really need that extra Buy.
Another Man's Treasure lets you trash a card from hand and then gain a card from the trash to your hand.  It'll often be a poor man's Transmogrify unless there are good cards in the trash.
Risk Assessment, like the name suggests 
The set feels cohesive and I like the metagame that it creates.  It will most notably change the dynamic of games with trash-for-benefit, as there is a downside to trashing nicer stuff since three of Policies will let your opponents grab stuff from the trash.  But I think therein lies a potential issue with the set - if it too strongly dissuades trash-for-benefit strategies, then you will mostly have junk in the trash which could make the decisions about which Policy to choose less meaningful.  There will be Kingdoms where you will be able to pull off combos with certain start-of-turn effects and these Policies, but it won't be possible in most cases.
I think players will often just go for either One Man's Trash and Risk Assessment if available until their decks are thin, and the other two Policies will not anything substantial for them.

emtzalex's Laws (Succession, Primogeniture, Dead Hand, Estate Tax)
This is an intriguing set with some good synergy.  Succession allows you to set aside an Action card from your hand in order to power up Primogeniture, Dead Hand, and Estate Tax.  Primogeniture and Dead Hand are like Inheritance for Duchies and Curses, respectively, except that most of the time these cards will still clutter your deck.  It's not clear to me that you would want to gain Duchies or Curses in order to take advantage of Primogeniture and Dead Hand, unless you are playing with Archives and can stash them away for turns where they would not be activated.  Setting it up through Succession also comes with an opportunity cost since you are removing an Action card from your deck.  I could definitely see it being detrimental, since it will not only slow down your tempo but having Curses and Duchies in your deck during turns where Dead Hand or Primogeniture are not available will make your deck less reliable.  I suspect that Estate Tax would probably be the strongest Law of the bunch and the most contested one. 

spineflu's Bromides (A Sparing Father, A Spending Son, Make Light Work, Look a Gift Horse, Reach for the Sky, Over the Moon, Tricks of the Trade)

Unlike Laws, Bromides are randomly selected from the set based on the number of players.  In a 2-player game, there would be 3 available.  As emtzalex pointed out early in the thread, have 3 to choose from in 2-player game will essentially only give the players a choice the first time they place their cube (e.g. Player 1 selects Bromide A, Player 2 then selects Bromide B, then Player 1 has no choice but to select Bromide C, and Player 2 has no choice but to select Bromide A, and so on).  Tweaking the rule to using n+2 Bromides, where n is the number of players, would give the player an actual choice to make.
Bromides have an interesting feature whereby they give the active player a bonus and a different bonus to their opponents.  In the case of a Spending Son and Make Light Work, the bonus that your opponents get is arguably better than what you get, so you need to be wise about whether your really need to take the +$1 or +1 Action.  On the other hand, a well-timed Over the Moon might not give your opponent any advantage if their discard pile is empty, and the remaining Bromides generally have better bonuses for the active player than their opponents.  It may mean that players will gravitate towards the latter ones.

The Alchemist's Traits (Judicious, Industrious, Opulent, Bucolic, Sagacious, Pious)
A set of 6 cards of which you would randomly select 4 for each game.  These were originally designed to be drafted at the start of each game, and I assume have permanent effects.  Judicious will be impotent unless you have enough Action cards in your deck.  Industrious looks potentially interesting if you have enough money but lack +Buy.  Opulent could occasionally be helpful, but mainly if you have +Buys to take advantage of it. Bucolic could be very useful, provided its available to you at the right time.  Sagacious has a once-per-game restriction, which I don't think is ideal for a Law.  Pious is also potentially useful but very situational.  I think the situational nature of these cards works as Traits, but as Laws I can see them leading to a lot of frustration for players.

Mahowrath's Necromantic Law (Apprenticeship, Construction, Surveillance, Summoning)
Necromantic Law adds a fourth Zombie, Zombie Summoner, to the trash and has a set of Policies that let you play each of the Zombies.  Zombie Summoner lets you gain an Imp every other time you play it (unless there are other cards in the Kingdom that use the token), which is quite nice.  All of the policies require you to play a Zombie (it isn't optional) and also come with penalties.  Generally, Surveillance, Summoning and Apprenticeship will be innocuous but Construction could be risky.  The penalties may seem harsh in cases where you aren't able to make much use out of the available Zombies.  Surveillance will probably be the most universally useful Policy since playing Zombie Spy at the start of your turn will increase your hand size and act as a splitter.  I wonder if the penalties are necessary at all - they are intended to avoid over-accelerating the game, but given that in a 2-player game, you would have at most 2 Zombies to choose from and the one you may really want to play might not be available.



WINNER:

emtzalex's Laws (Succession, Primogeniture, Dead Hand, Estate Tax)
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.112 seconds with 22 queries.