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[Tables]

Inspired by the favourite expansion thread, and because we (Peppy and I) were getting a little derailed in discussion regarding Cornucopia, I've decided to make a thread.

Here was the discussion we had so far.

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It is also the set I feel most comfortable recommending to any new player looking to get into Dominion beyond the base set.
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I'm not trying to make an argument against an opinion, but why is this? I'd say it was one of the worst expansions to get as a first one, perhaps ahead of only Alchemy and maybe Hinterlands (I assume you mean Base game+1 expansion).

The high power cards will lead regularly to games being Cornucopia heavy, as base game is on the whole weaker on average. I don't mean there'll be more Cornucopia cards, just the ones there are will generally be the most important by a moderate margin, which isn't really good in my opinion.

The cards are a reasonable bit more complicated than those in some other expansions, in both effect and strategy. Sure, adding new complex strategy is fun, but as a first expansion, I'd say go for the medium level complexity first.

It's a small expansion and moderately new, meaning it's probably the most expensive expansion per card. Perhaps this is a matter of opinion, but I'd more strongly recommend a better value big box, and add a small box or two when they just want something to keep the game fresh.

So... yeah. In terms of recommending expansions, I'd probably suggest Intrigue first (for the extra base cards - a reasonable number of face to face games are in bigger groups, I find), but if the base cards are unnecessary, probably Seaside next, then Prosperity (Colony and the like are great, but with just Base+Prosperity things get a little top-heavy in terms of cost, I'd say).

If someone were getting two expansions at once though, I'd probably be more willing to recommend Cornucopia... the extra complexity and power surge gets hidden away a little.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have said this without explaining it, I just didn't want to derail the thread - so, overlong off-topic 100% opinion-based ramblings ahead! I feel bad, there is probably even a thread for this already from way back when (edit: well, I checked, and apparently there isn't one). I know this is crazy long; having friends that have often asked me this question or that I've introduced the game to means I've thought about it a lot, and I'm really bad at condensing things. A big factor in my opinion about this (and it is just an opinion, and a biased one) is based on 3-4 player games IRL and playing with new players who are usually resistant to brutal attack cards. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

I do agree that Alchemy and Hinterlands are the worst sets to introduce to beginners - Hinterlands for having way too many different mechanics for new players to really understand what they're doing, Alchemy for being so brutal and action-chain oriented. I personally got all the expansions in order, and I don't think that's a terrible way to go, but I don't believe that it's the very best way to ease people in.

If you need the extra base cards than Intrigue is really the only choice, but assuming you don't I can't really get behind it recommending it as a first expansion. The biggest problem is one it shares with Seaside: brutal attacks that stack nastily in multi-player. Intrigue has Torturer, Saboteur, and Swindler; Seaside has Pirate Ship, Cutpurse, and Ambassador, and that's ignoring non-stacking but still horrifying stuff like Sea Hag, Minion and Ghost Ship. Speaking from experience, all of these cards can easily make four player games (God forbid 5-6) infuriating to the point that I've seen new players give up on the game after one go. Besides that, Intrigue's "choices" theme is a great one, but it isn't the most inviting to players used to the relative simplicity of the Base set. Pawn, Secret Chamber, Masquerade and Minion are all cards I dread showing to new players - the former two have lead to some of the most aggravating games I can remember. Choices that effect other players are obviously a huge part of Dominion, but Intrigue throws a ton of them at you all at once. Seaside and Prosperity both add plenty of mats and tokens and other things to keep track of, not to mention the duration mechanic, which is awesome, of course, but forces a lot of "wait, so how many actions do I have now?" kind of questioning. All of those things are sure to overwhelm coming straight from the Base set,

Soooo, finally, why Cornucopia? For one, I kind of like the idea of starting newer players out with a smaller set. That's probably just personal preference, but when all you know is the Base set it might be better to bridge the gap with a manageable amount of new stuff and then ramp up to the big guys. It helps that for all of Cornucopia's perceived complexity, it's really a pretty simple set, if not to play strategically then at least to understand quickly. Remake, Hunting Party, Young Witch and Fairgrounds are all somewhat self-explanatory variations of Chapel, Lab, Witch and Gardens, Farming Village is going to confuse a new player less than, say, Mining Village, and Fortune Teller is one of the simplest attacks in the game. The overall theme of variety is really easy to grasp;  it only takes a successful play or two of Menagerie or Harvest for anyone to get the basic concept down. Horse Traders is a much simpler reaction than something like Secret Chamber, and unlike that card is an actual counter to Militia. Hamlet is similar to Pawn but with half the choices and the ability to draw a card before a decision is made - a much better introduction to the concept of choices, I think. Jester does a great job of solving the 'stacks in multiples' problem of the other sets' more brutal attack cards, still being much better in 4 player but balancing that out with a nice dose of luck. That leaves Tournament and Horn of Plenty as the only cards with real possible learning curves, but their uniqueness is a good thing.

It takes some time to play Cornucopia's cards optimally, I'll give you that. You could say the same of any expansion. But nobody is going to read them and be confused about just what their purpose is in the same way they would for several of the cards from other sets listed above and plenty that I haven't even mentioned. It's not going to turn people off thanks to powerful attacks. It adds few difficult to understand concepts or foreign choices, no mats, no tokens, no dual-type cards, no clutter, only prizes. It bridges the gap to Prosperity by introducing just one Kingdom treasure card (not counting Diadem).

Quick Edit: You mentioned Cornucopia being a bit too powerful, and it maybe overwhelming the Base set cards. With a couple exceptions, I don't think it's a much bigger leap than Intrigue or Seaside, less of one than Prosperity, and it has the added benefit of encouraging variety, which means that in order for a lot of Cornucopia's cards to actually be powerful you kind of have to incorporate Base set stuff.

I agree with some of those attacks. Ambassador, Sea Hag, Pirate Ship (for new players) and Ghost Ship can all be problematic for large groups. In Intrigue, Minion is less of a problem (beginners don't get why they're so good, and in multiplayer... they're still not), but Torturer, Saboteur and Swindler, yeah, I can see the dislike for them. So in terms of attacks, yes, Seaside and Intrigue can lead to some nastier games.

Regarding mats and tokens... sure, you can construct a game with all the crazy new confusing mechanics at once, but in all likelihood you'll see 1-3 duration cards and perhaps one mat or token card, if that, when you first introduce seaside. I don't think it's that complicated at all. And the only issue I've ever found with durations is remembering to keep them out and do their thing, tracking isn't an issue so much (there are worse cards for tracking... Hamlet.). Prosperity is even more tame, there's one card with a mat, and three with VP tokens. You might see one, maybe two, and the VP tokens take one or two plays of the card to understand what they're doing. Not a problem.

Again, small set vs. Large is probably a matter of preference. If it was someone just looking to make the game a little more exciting for their occasional plays, I'd agree with small set. But otherwise, if it was someone who was likely to play a lot more Dominion I'd definitely recommend a big set. As for Cornucopia's cards:
Remake: You brush this off as simple, but the trashing exactly two and gaining cards costing exactly one more is slightly confusing at first. Moreso than say Upgrade, which is just one card.
Hunting Party: It's easy to make mistakes with this (I still do) as you have to do quite a few things with the card - draw, then reveal your hand, then reveal cards from deck, then put one in hand. Easy enough but a little complex.
Young Witch is... not simple. It has weird reaction timing, it has weird setup rules and you need to mark that Bane somehow. It's hardly a self-explanatory version of Witch.
Fairgrounds is generally okay, but the granularity of it's points can throw people.
Farming Village I don't think has much on Mining Village, a little simpler but they're both simple cards.
Oracle too.
Menagerie is pretty straightforward, although it's a little confusing to have say Menagerie/Menagerie/X/Y/Z and get the +3 card bonus.
Harvest is simple, yes.
I don't think Horse Traders is really any simpler than Secret Chamber. Easier to see why it's useful but not really easier to use.
Hamlet has tracking issues for buys and actions, which can get very confusing. Pawn is just as bad, but most of the time your Pawns will do very similar things. Hamlet tends to be a little worse for me in that regard, so I'd be a little more afraid of using it with newbies.
Jester is simple enough, I guess, after you've played it once or twice.
So I think there's more than just Tournament and Horn which are confusing. Most of the set can be confusing in some way, especially to a beginner, but notably, Young Witch and Hunting Party are also somewhat difficult to grasp.

I have to admit, there's less of an issue there than I thought... it's mostly just I dislike the set I think  . Well, dislike it being overpowered in general at least. I think it is much worse than Seaside, Prosperity or Intrigue - Remake, Young Witch and Tournament are considered three of the best $4's, Hunting Party is one of the best $5's, and Hamlet is one of the best $2's - that's 5 cards out of 13 considered in the top ~15% of their price range (it doesn't take a lot of work to realise that you'd expect about 2, so that's twice as many power cards as you'd expect!). I was definitely extreme saying it would overshadow the base set, but considering the base game has perhaps... two of those same high level power cards (Witch, Chapel), you can see Cornucopia will often be the main player in the games. All things considered... I think I might recommend Cornucopia a little more highly now, or at least, small expansions more highly.

[Wingnut]

It's Prosperity for a new player. It's a bigger set and for the most part the play mechanics are easy. All of the extra treasures will ensure the move from the BM centric base game to Prosperity won't be too jarring and the actions really are just higher powered cards of many of the base cards. KC is a more powerful TR. Grand Market same for Market. Watchtower is a lesser powered Library with a reaction. Goons is a more powerful Militia. Mountebank is a different Witch. Even the VP cards are mostly simple. Goons is easy and so is Monument (Bishop maybe not so much but every set has some cards that are difficult for new players).

For the new player that owns only Intrigue, I would go with Seaside. The duration cards are a favorite of many and Intrigue players who are already playing with Torturer, Swindler, Saboteur and Minion are likely to unphased by dealing with Ambassador, Sea Hag and Ghost Ships.

As for Cornucopia, I feel like it is the better of the two small sets, easily and would probably get it third after Base and Prosperity (or Intrigue and Seaside).

[PerdHapley]

Hey, thanks for doing this! And for taking the time to write out a thoughtful response. You definitely caught some of my biased blind spots. Now I'm thinking that this is ultimately a question of the kind of people you play with, and also how many players are going to participate in an average game. If they are:

- Fast learning players who like having lots of choices to make and player interaction and don't mind games that might move a bit slower largely thanks to powerful-but-swingy attacks, go Intrigue. Possibly less enjoyable with bigger groups.
- Players who like big hand sizes, lots of extra actions and having the ability to set up future turns, go Seaside. Bigger groups should probably expect three pile endings to mostly come more often than in other sets, and for certain mediocre 2-player cards (Pirate Ship, Treasure Map) to become winning strategies.
- Dedicated players who love extremely powerful cards, action chaining and engine-building and don't mind a bit of swinginess should go for Alchemy. Least likely to be a great first expansion pick, most likely to provide the kingdom's dominant strategy, more players = at least one of them will probably be totally screwed by turn 5. If the players you play with are even somewhat non-competitive, then well, avoid this one like the plague.
- Players who love having huge turns with tons of $$$ to spend, multiple buys, bigger point totals, expensive goals, unique treasure cards and more time to build around a strategy should go Prosperity. Probably the most fun, crowd-pleasing expansion for the casual set, but full of depth, and maybe the most likely to convert casual player into addict (this is the one that did that for me). If you're truly unsure, this is probably the safest, most popular pick. Room to breathe and lots of money/power cards make it maybe the most fun four player set.
- Players who prefer building decks out of a little bit of everything and like the idea of a small set with near-universally strong cards and unique interactions should go with Cornucopia. For the crowd that can get behind the "simple to understand, difficult to master" line of thinking - these cards have layers. Works fine with multiple players and moves at a quick pace, not as curse-y as Intrigue/Seaside but still with plenty of player interaction via Young Witch, Tournament, HT, FT, and Jester
- Players who like cards that react to being bought and gained, alternate victory point strategies, fast rushes to empty piles, and timing reactions to opponents' plays should go for Hinterlands. Even better if you don't like games involving curses, as only one card here deals them out, and does so in a very unique way. Probably leads to even faster games and sudden pile endings with multiple players. Probably the least overtly simple set, less recommended for ultra-casual players.

- Overall best option - it doesn't really matter. If you buy one expansion you are going to end up purchasing all of them anyway, and which one you prefer will depend on arbitrary personal reasons. It will probably not be Alchemy, and you know that already, but you will own it anyway. Resistance is futile.

[brokoli]

Doubtless, it's Seaside.

I've played a lot with Base+Intrigue only, and it wasn't really fun. I most enjoyed Base+Seaside.
The cards from seaside are easy to understand, unlike prosperity, Hinterlands, Alchemy or cornucopia.

Tactician is especially interesting for new players.

After Seaside : Prosperity and Cornucopia : good expansions, more difficult to play but nice additions to Base+Seaside (cornucopia is especiallly fun with seaside).

After : Intrigue, Alchemy and Hinterlands (the most difficult expansion).

[Davio]

I was going to vote for Prosperity, but then I voted for Seaside.

Seaside is the most "fun". The duration cards are very cute and even though it has 5 attack cards it doesn't feel like a big confrontational set to me. Sure, Ambassador games are messy and it's gg when your Sea Hag gets hagged, but the fun you get out of Wharf, Tactician and Fishing Village more than makes up for it.

Sets like Intrigue and Hinterlands strip Dominion down to its ugly strategic core. Seaside is just a lot of fun. I like the orange color too and not just 'cause I'm Dutch. Duration cards seem to "liven up" any set they're in.

I think a good way to go about things is Base -> Seaside -> Prosperity -> The rest
If you like the base game and seaside you can grab prosperity for the more tactical Colony games and after that you can choose your own path well enough. If you like nasty confrontations, grab Intrigue. If you like diversity and trying out different things, grab Cornucopia. If you like to see Dominion's wrinkled intestines, buy Hinterlands. If you have money to spare, buy Alchemy.

[Voltgloss]

If you are teaching someone who is otherwise a non-gamer (or mild gamer), I have to second Cornucopia.  Remember that someone who is just learning the game is going to default to trying lots of different cards both to learn how they work and because they don't yet know enough to select what's "best" out of a given line-up.  Cornucopia's emphasis on variety takes that natural inclination and turns it into a viable strategy.  They will have fun while they're learning, and that is key.

[JohnnySmash]

I vote for Intrigue, when I bought Intrigue I felt like I had just gotten the second half of the base set.  All the cards feel pretty simple to me.  Sure it has some mean attacks, but the base set has Militia and Witch which are also pretty dang mean.  I feel like the only confusing choice cards are Pawn and Steward, and I don't really see people overanalyze them, usually they just pick two things on Pawn that "sound good" and for Steward for new players they basically just decide between +2 cards or +2 coins.

I feel like Seaside would be my #2 choice, as most of the cards are orange versions of base set cards and/or aren't too complicated.  Alchemy is a big no, I like this set but I feel like I would like it to be as diluted as possible between a bunch of expansions you own.  Prosperity is a big mind-**** for a new player, Colonies and Platinums are like "whaaat" and victory tokens and Peddler/Mint/Loan/King's Court are like whaaat.  Cornucopia is so weird, when I first started playing I looked at the different sets and Cornucopia just confused me a ton with Tournament and Young Witch, also the cards based on variety looked bad to me because I didn't have any concept of how many different kinds of cards I would have in my hand at that point.  Hinterlands is pretty simple but I'd say the on-buy cards should also be pretty diluted because it adds a whole other level of complexity to the buy phase- what on-buy effect do you need AND what card do you need for your deck?

Anyways that's my opinion.

[Piemaster]

I guess it depends what you mean by a new player.  If you mean someone that only has the base set and has played it to death, then I would say Seaside and Prosperity are probably the most 'fun' expansions that will add the most extra excitement for the game for their buck. 

However if you're talking about a true beginner who is maybe getting an expansion to go with their base set after playing the game a few times and falling in love with it then I would say Intrigue.  It introduces new and more complex concepts at a controlled pace.  It introduces them to cards that do more than one thing and forces them to make choices without throwing them in the deep end with tokens and cards that they have to remember not to discard etc.  As the previous poster says, Intrigue sort of feels like the second half of the base set, with all the pros and cons of that.