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Author Topic: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!  (Read 870 times)

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The Alchemist

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Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« on: September 28, 2021, 09:49:17 pm »
+3

VP tokens, we all know 'em, we all love 'em. But as of now, VP tokens are locked in and never decrease, so the only way to lose VP is either trashing a Victory card or getting cursed. But plenty of people have attempted to make fan cards that, for example, are attacks that decrease an opponent's VP in a way that isn't tied to the size of the curse pile, or not as swingy as trashing opponent's Victory cards. However, simply having -1 VP token has its own host of issues, not least of which is the clarification of what happens when you have 0 tokens. But alas! Something wicked this way comes! Curse tokens!

   

And of course, I'm sure you can think of interesting attacks that hand out a curse token! Each of these examples give you an idea of how versatile you can treat these tokens. The first is just a negative effect that stacks on play. The second is a resource you can stockpile for a bigger and bigger benefit, but the larger your stockpile the lower you're in the negative, and you have to be careful not to end with a "surplus" of tokens. The third is a kind of debt, except for points instead of for coin; you get the benefit upfront for a big hit in points, which you can slowly payback, effectively making each play +1 VP (and more importantly, a version of +VP that isn't broken on a cantrip/stalematey).

Obviously care should be taken in to how you intend to use these tokens for not just your submission but your cards in general (if you were to hypothetically make more). Since the second and third type of usage are naturally mutually exclusive (a stockpile and a debt cancel each other out), a potential fan expansion could not have those two cards in the same set. Alternating Incantations and Conjurations summons free Provinces out of thin air! Both are presented just as examples, feel free to choose your own method. A portion of judging will include how you choose to implement the token, and how it would synergize with other cards.

Here is the raven icon I used for the symbol: https://cdn-icons-png.flaticon.com/512/92/92034.png

I can post a version that works well in the card generator later, but if you use photoshop (or similar) like me, its just a matter of resizing.


Deadline will be Tuesday, October 5th. Cards will be judged by 3 criteria of equal importance: Implementation and balance of the token itself, simplicity and clarity of wording, and most importantly theme! Halloween is just around the corner so I want your spookiest and scariest card names and art! For this contest, I will be requiring an image that fits your card name with your submission, and ideally with both fitting the effect of the card. It doesn't need to fit a curse or scary theme, it just needs to fit a theme. This is since -1 VP is such a novel concept, I don't expect the epitome of balanced cards here, and I will be taking things like costs and card strengths pretty lightly, just don't make your attacks too brutal. Have fun with this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bUdtb7O7Wo
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 10:02:50 pm by The Alchemist »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2021, 08:56:15 am »
+1

Worth noting that most basic usages that come to mind aren't doing anything special vs just using the existing tokens and reversing who gets them. Want to make a weaker Witch that gives each opponent a curse token? You could just have it give you a token for the exact same result. Similarly, an effect that gives you a curse token can be done simply by giving each opponent a token.

The example cards in the post mostly avoid that issue. While Cursed Smithy does the same thing as giving each opponent a token, because it's an optional effect, the wording would be much more convoluted to make it work with tokens instead.
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The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2021, 09:18:33 am »
0

Worth noting that most basic usages that come to mind aren't doing anything special vs just using the existing tokens and reversing who gets them. Want to make a weaker Witch that gives each opponent a curse token? You could just have it give you a token for the exact same result. Similarly, an effect that gives you a curse token can be done simply by giving each opponent a token.

The example cards in the post mostly avoid that issue. While Cursed Smithy does the same thing as giving each opponent a token, because it's an optional effect, the wording would be much more convoluted to make it work with tokens instead.

Yes exactly! I did in fact consider a curse token Witch and dropped it after that very same reasoning. I encourage people to think of creative uses for the token that wouldn't easily be accomplished with "Each other player gets +1 VP" or "Exile a Curse", as I have attempted to show with the examples.
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Timinou

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2021, 10:05:31 am »
+2

If you've played the Scoundrels of Skullport expansion of Lords of Waterdeep, you'll be familiar with Corruption tokens.  Players gain Corruption tokens when they do certain actions that are more powerful than normal.  At the end of the game, each Corruption token is worth a certain amount of negative VP based on the number of Corruption tokens that all players have taken.

This is partly inspired by Corruption tokens, although the amount of negative VP doesn't scale based on the number of Curse tokens (well, other than the -1VP each Curse token gives you):

EDIT: Changed this into a pure Landmark instead of a dual Event/Landmark and reduced the VP penalty from 10VP to 6VP:


Quote from: Original

EDIT: Tweaked the card to make it more relevant in Kingdoms without +Buy or gainers.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 03:56:44 pm by Timinou »
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The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2021, 08:14:20 pm »
0

If you've played the Scoundrels of Skullport expansion of Lords of Waterdeep, you'll be familiar with Corruption tokens.  Players gain Corruption tokens when they do certain actions that are more powerful than normal.  At the end of the game, each Corruption token is worth a certain amount of negative VP based on the number of Corruption tokens that all players have taken.

This is partly inspired by Corruption tokens, although the amount of negative VP doesn't scale based on the number of Curse tokens (well, other than the -1VP each Curse token gives you):



EDIT: Tweaked the card to make it more relevant in Kingdoms without +Buy or gainers.

Why is it "Once per turn: You may buy a card" instead of just "+1 Buy. At the end of your Buy phase... " or any other timing (start of clean-up, end of turn, etc.)? To me "You may buy a card" is for letting you buy cards outside the buy phase, but on an event that's not relevant since you're always by default in the buy phase. Otherwise, you have to be careful to buy the event just before your last buy every turn.

Also this doesn't need the "You may take". The choice is already implicit in buying the event or not, if you move the choice to within the event, then there's no reason why one wouldn't just buy the event every single turn, and then at that point it can just be a pure Landmark (which is also a valid direction to take, and maybe preferable to avoid the awkward double typed landscape). The only counterpoint is maybe you'd change your mind in the time between buying the event and just after buying the card (maybe some on-buy trigger changed things), but that's a very edge case.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 08:16:23 pm by The Alchemist »
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spineflu

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2021, 09:07:52 pm »
+1


Quote
Haruspex $1* Action
+1
Gain an Omen.
-
This costs $1 more per card you have in play.

Omen $0* Action
+1 Action
Return this to its pile to gain a card from the Supply. If it was a Victory card, put it on top of your deck. +1 per $1 more than $6 that it cost.

(This is not in the Supply)

Clarifying: 10 Omens in the pile. the "you" in Haruspex's price refers to the player whose turn it is.

Mechanics: this was originally +1 gain a Wish, at $4. I wanted a less automatic buy than that. I also wanted the card you got via wish to have to cycle through - maybe that'd be trivial in most engine games, but yknow, it's not all engine games. I also wanted it to be able to gain Weird Stuff - overlords, golems, etc - but didn't really want to do extra work describing which price points were Good and which were Too Much, so I came up with the Victory/crow penalties on omen to balance out a card that essentially said "gain a Colony". Haruspex is priced Like That to keep it out of the opening (except in Cursed Gold and Baker games) and make a late game pivot to it unlikely/unpleasant.

Flavor: I missed the "include a spooky image" in my first entry - my third entry (not posted until after the contest) has some very spooky art. This, one's an old painting from the 1850s, the other is from the Fantasy Flight Game of Thrones board game. A Haruspex is a divination-seer/oracle that used animal entrails to do divination stuff - see the future, etc. A carrion bird () and an Omen seemed appropriate.


OLD CARD / outtake
here's my prelim entry. It got kinda lukewarm reception in #variants but i'll probably replace it before the week is through (not in the least because four lines on a landscape is too much).


Quote
Cistern Landmark
When you buy a card, move a from its pile to this.
Provinces cost $1 less for each here.
When you gain a Province, take 2 or more from here.
-
Setup: put 2 on each non-Victory Supply pile costing $5 or more.

Basic gist is cheaper provinces that go faster but are worth fewer points. Lots of the wording was borrowed from Aqueduct.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 11:35:43 pm by spineflu »
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Violet CLM

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2021, 09:45:01 pm »
+4

When Embargo meets Bargain, the result is a creepy crossover we just had to call...
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Timinou

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2021, 08:44:43 am »
0

Why is it "Once per turn: You may buy a card" instead of just "+1 Buy. At the end of your Buy phase... " or any other timing (start of clean-up, end of turn, etc.)? To me "You may buy a card" is for letting you buy cards outside the buy phase, but on an event that's not relevant since you're always by default in the buy phase. Otherwise, you have to be careful to buy the event just before your last buy every turn.

Also this doesn't need the "You may take". The choice is already implicit in buying the event or not, if you move the choice to within the event, then there's no reason why one wouldn't just buy the event every single turn, and then at that point it can just be a pure Landmark (which is also a valid direction to take, and maybe preferable to avoid the awkward double typed landscape). The only counterpoint is maybe you'd change your mind in the time between buying the event and just after buying the card (maybe some on-buy trigger changed things), but that's a very edge case.

I didn't think +1 Buy would work, since I thought you would need to resolve the rest of the card first before you actually get to use that +1 Buy.

However, you're right that this could easily just be a pure Landmark, and could say, "At the end of your Buy phase [or the start of Clean-up], you may take +1 Curse token....".
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2021, 02:51:21 pm »
0

WITHDRAWN: NOT AN ENTRY



Quote
Incubus - $5
Night - Attack
You may pay or take 2 for +2 Coffers.
You may discard a non-Victory card. Each other player with fewer than its cost in $, take equal to the difference.
(Heirloom: Dreamcatcher)
Quote
Dreamcatcher - $2
Treasure - Heirloom
$1
You may pay 1 for +1 Buy.

A strange attack card that can "curse" other players quite aggressively, but due to how it functions there is a cap. The Heirloom is there mainly as a way to mitigate the attack card slightly. Players can ignore Incubus completely, and barring Platinum or certain very expensive cards, the max number of curse tokens you can give players is limited. Really not sure about the balance on this. I am interested to see what people think of this.

Edit: Decided to go with something else as this was a pretty convoluted and uninteresting design. Replacement is in a new post.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 06:19:30 pm by Xen3k »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2021, 02:34:45 am »
+1



Fire Witch
Action/Attack - $4
+2 Cards
+1 Curse token if the Curse pile isn't empty.
Each other player may trash a card from their hand. If they trashed a Curse, they take 2 Curse tokens. Otherwise, they gain a Curse.

Rules clarification: They gain a Curse if they didn't trash anything, or if they trashed a card other than Curse.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 03:08:29 am by NoMoreFun »
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2021, 01:07:25 am »
+2

My Submission:


Quote from: Halloween Town
HALLOWEEN TOWN
ACTION
Cost: $4
+2 Actions
Choose one: +1 Card per 2 you have (round down); or +1.


When you gain this, +1.
                   

My submission is Halloween Town, an homage to Tim Burton's excellent film Nightmare Before Christmas. A variant of City, it gives you a village effect that gets stronger as the game goes on. This powers up as you add Curse tokens, which you get on gain or by foregoing your draws with the card.
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Mahowrath

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2021, 10:35:33 pm »
+2

Last minute / late entry




Quote
Midas Curse - Landmark
When you are the first player to gain a Gold, after that turn, each player bids once, up to 40 Coffers, ending with you. The lowest bidder gets 8 and takes the Coffers they bid.

Parallel to Mountain Pass; coffers for VP once Gold is acquired.
Edit: reskin
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 12:01:32 am by Mahowrath »
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The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2021, 10:12:43 am »
+3

I've decided to extend the deadline until the end of the weekend to give a bit more time for any last-minute suggestions, since there are still only a few submissions. You will know when I post the 24 hour warning.
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2021, 06:17:14 pm »
+1



Quote
Occult Market - $4
Action
+1
For each you have, choose a different thing: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +1 Coffers; gain a Silver; gain a Horse; -2 .
Each other player may take a
to receive a chosen thing.

This is my replacement entry. It is a build your own Market that allows everyone to join in on the fun. The options for other players is based on what the person playing the card chooses. Choosing things for the person playing the card is not optional, but there is an option to lose Curse tokens, so there is a way to prevent getting too many tokens. I can see it getting pretty absurd if you accumulate enough Curse tokens, but other players will still be able to benefit from it, so I think it is not too crazy. Feedback is appreciated.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 06:25:03 pm by Xen3k »
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segura

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2021, 04:28:02 pm »
+2

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Amuzet

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2021, 10:57:53 am »
0


ERRATA: Cost $6, no line break.
Quote
Cursed Cargo $6
Action - Duration
Take an amount of R , gain a card costing exactly $1 per R token taken. While you have R , at the start of each of your turns, -1R. If you could not, then gain a curse.
(R is the Raven/Curse Tokens)


I like the way crypt works, wanted to riff on that wording. If you end up with multiple of these at the start of your turns they remove the R tokens faster, but if it one of them is unable to remove a Raven Token then it gives you a curse.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 08:05:52 pm by Amuzet »
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Timinou

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2021, 07:47:59 am »
0



Quote
Cursed Cargo $4
Action - Duration
Take an amount of R , gain a card costing exactly $1 per R token taken.
-
While you have R , at the start of each of your turns, -1R. If you could not, then gain a curse.
(R is the Raven/Curse Tokens)


I like the way crypt works, wanted to riff on that wording. If you end up with multiple of these at the start of your turns they remove the R tokens faster, but if it one of them is unable to remove a Raven Token then it gives you a curse.

I dont think its clear how long this stays in play.  Is the intent that it stays in play until you run out of Curse tokens, when the Curse pile empties, or both?
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Amuzet

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2021, 03:19:49 am »
0

On Cursed Cargo
I dont think its clear how long this stays in play.  Is the intent that it stays in play until you run out of Curse tokens, when the Curse pile empties, or both?
I checked Crypt and used its wording, since Durations check at clean up whether they can do something next turn.
So it should only stay while you have Curse Tokens: Coppers/Curses do not trigger its duration effect.

The way I want it to work, is if you end up with multiple Cursed Cargo you might play them in such a way that one or more of them end up with 3 Cursed Cargo and 1 Curse Token.
One cursed cargo takes away the last Curse Token.
Two cursed cargoes left each give a curse since  you no longer have Curse Tokens.

I'm imagining interactions with other cards that give/remove Curse Tokens to you/others that might mess with your Cursed Cargo!

THE POINT: It should stay around until you run out of Curse Tokens.

Also after thinking about it, $4 is far too cheap, it should be $6! at least?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 03:48:58 am by Amuzet »
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Gubump

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2021, 11:51:12 am »
+1

On Cursed Cargo
I dont think its clear how long this stays in play.  Is the intent that it stays in play until you run out of Curse tokens, when the Curse pile empties, or both?
I checked Crypt and used its wording, since Durations check at clean up whether they can do something next turn.
So it should only stay while you have Curse Tokens: Coppers/Curses do not trigger its duration effect.

The way I want it to work, is if you end up with multiple Cursed Cargo you might play them in such a way that one or more of them end up with 3 Cursed Cargo and 1 Curse Token.
One cursed cargo takes away the last Curse Token.
Two cursed cargoes left each give a curse since  you no longer have Curse Tokens.

I'm imagining interactions with other cards that give/remove Curse Tokens to you/others that might mess with your Cursed Cargo!

THE POINT: It should stay around until you run out of Curse Tokens.

Also after thinking about it, $4 is far too cheap, it should be $6! at least?

It shouldn't have the dividing line if that's supposed to be part of its on play effect. The unnecessary diving line makes it unclear when the below-the-line effect is supposed to be active. See, well, Crypt:

See, no dividing line.

Wording issues aside, this is actually way too weak imo. If you use it like Workshop (gaining cards that cost or less), it's Workshop with a downside (both being slow because of staying in play, and potentially costing you ). Even just getting a causes it to be in play for a total of 3 turns! And it just gets even slower from there.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 11:57:39 am by Gubump »
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The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2021, 09:13:54 am »
+4

24 Hour Warning!!!
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The Alchemist

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2021, 10:48:21 pm »
0

If you've played the Scoundrels of Skullport expansion of Lords of Waterdeep, you'll be familiar with Corruption tokens.  Players gain Corruption tokens when they do certain actions that are more powerful than normal.  At the end of the game, each Corruption token is worth a certain amount of negative VP based on the number of Corruption tokens that all players have taken.

This is partly inspired by Corruption tokens, although the amount of negative VP doesn't scale based on the number of Curse tokens (well, other than the -1VP each Curse token gives you):

EDIT: Changed this into a pure Landmark instead of a dual Event/Landmark and reduced the VP penalty from 10VP to 6VP:


Quote from: Original

EDIT: Tweaked the card to make it more relevant in Kingdoms without +Buy or gainers.

Not sure if you've noticed, but the rewording of the card means that you can't get a copy of the card you just bought. If I buy only one card in a turn and haven't gained any others, then Dock does nothing, because *when I buy the card* I haven't gained anything yet. It's always Buy card, all on-buy effects, then gain card, all on-gain effects. If you want Dock to be able to duplicate a card you just bought, it needs to be after the buy, which is why I suggested "At the end of your Buy phase".
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #21 on: Today at 09:58:03 am »
0

Do you actually plan to judge this contest?
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 21: Curse you!
« Reply #22 on: Today at 11:02:10 am »
+1

If I'm still in time, I have this entry:

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