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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!  (Read 2060 times)

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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2021, 10:29:30 am »
0

Having Chalice in hand on Turn 1 could be quite advantageous if your opponent only has it on Turn 2, since you’ll have an extra Coffer that you can spend on Turn 2 while your opponent won’t.

Well i hope that each player can make use of the coffers differently. So your example is a bad turn 1 then great turn 2. The other option is ok turn 1 bad turn 2 then a great turn 3. The turn 3 card misses the shuffle but can be even more effective when a player has combines the coffers with whatever they gain earlier.

Having a Coffer to spend before the first shuffle is better than only having it to spend after the first shuffle.  Most games with Chalice will not have any Potion-cost cards other than Ritual Tithe in the Kingdom, so you're looking at opening splits of 4/2, 2/4, or 3/3.  However, a player with Chalice in hand on Turn 1 will effectively have a more "normal" split of 4/3, 2/5, or 3/4 if they choose to spend the Coffer on Turn 2; whereas the player who only sees it on Turn 2 will likely have a worse opening.  This isn't necessarily a game-deciding advantage, but I think it's still an issue and it only gets worse if there are no worthwhile $2-cost cards in the Kingdom.
and uh the turn 1 chalice effective split of 1/6, which is Not Ideal
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2021, 10:40:27 am »
+1

Having Chalice in hand on Turn 1 could be quite advantageous if your opponent only has it on Turn 2, since you’ll have an extra Coffer that you can spend on Turn 2 while your opponent won’t.

Well i hope that each player can make use of the coffers differently. So your example is a bad turn 1 then great turn 2. The other option is ok turn 1 bad turn 2 then a great turn 3. The turn 3 card misses the shuffle but can be even more effective when a player has combines the coffers with whatever they gain earlier.

Having a Coffer to spend before the first shuffle is better than only having it to spend after the first shuffle.  Most games with Chalice will not have any Potion-cost cards other than Ritual Tithe in the Kingdom, so you're looking at opening splits of 4/2, 2/4, or 3/3.  However, a player with Chalice in hand on Turn 1 will effectively have a more "normal" split of 4/3, 2/5, or 3/4 if they choose to spend the Coffer on Turn 2; whereas the player who only sees it on Turn 2 will likely have a worse opening.  This isn't necessarily a game-deciding advantage, but I think it's still an issue and it only gets worse if there are no worthwhile $2-cost cards in the Kingdom.
and uh the turn 1 chalice effective split of 1/6, which is Not Ideal

Oh right - I missed the 5/1 or 1/5 splits!
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arowdok

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2021, 07:06:09 pm »
0

Quote
This isn't necessarily a game-deciding advantage, but I think it's still an issue and it only gets worse if there are no worthwhile $2-cost cards in the Kingdom
Except the Tithe is a 2^ costing card and if a player purchases Tithe (getting another green card unfortunately)  which can trash an estate from in hand for two spoils and try to spike after the shuffle with 2 temporary golds and maybe an unused coffers.

Quote
and uh the turn 1 chalice effective split of 1/6, which is Not Ideal

If a player gets the 1/6 spilt is it too different from getting the usual 2/5 split? an early 6 getting a Gold is not too importantly different from a terminal +$3 action card until mid game when being an action becomes a bit of a liability. And as far as giving out the 2/5 split more often, that is not to different than baker's free coffers during set up. If this effect creates too many uneven starts, I feel that players can agree to start with sorted decks if randomness is too impactful for them which many tables do, already.

Quote
Most games with Chalice will not have any Potion-cost cards other than Ritual Tithe in the Kingdom

If that bothers players too much they can build a kingdom that includes potion costs like alchemy recommends or with any dominion kingdom that includes "custom cards" they can ignore it and pick a new kingdom card that match's what they are looking for (But we can't do that! What if I run out of different interesting combinations for the small amount of official cards and even smaller amount custom cards that are out there. I desperately need every card, and every line of text on every card to be relevant to all randomly built kingdoms /s)
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2021, 07:14:02 pm »
+1

Quote
and uh the turn 1 chalice effective split of 1/6, which is Not Ideal

If a player gets the 1/6 spilt is it too different from getting the usual 2/5 split? an early 6 getting a Gold is not too importantly different from a terminal +$3 action card until mid game when being an action becomes a bit of a liability. And as far as giving out the 2/5 split more often, that is not to different than baker's free coffers during set up. If this effect creates too many uneven starts, I feel that players can agree to start with sorted decks if randomness is too impactful for them which many tables do, already.

i mean, there's a reason some players refer to them as yellow curses. Gold isn't a good card, and there's plenty of $2s that i'd be cranky about missing out on, like Raze, Border Guard or Lurker
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 07:01:15 am by spineflu »
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2021, 10:40:50 am »
+2



v2
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 02:46:07 pm by fika monster »
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2021, 11:53:06 am »
+4



It's probably not that easy to pull off, but you could pin your opponents with this.  Also, the way I'm reading it, this would force your opponent to discard all copies of the trashed card, right?  That makes this too strong, especially early in the game where you trash a Copper and basically kill your opponent's next turn.

EDIT: If you limit it to discarding only one copy of the trashed card, I would also recommend that players only need to reveal their hand if they don't discard a copy of the trashed card.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 12:01:01 pm by Timinou »
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Timinou

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2021, 03:01:23 pm »
+3

v2

I think the wording could be simplified a bit: "Choose one: Play a non-Command Action card in the trash twice; or trash a card from your hand and each other player discards a copy of it (or reveals they can't)."

I'm assuming it intentional that you do not leave the played card in the trash (you put it in play and then discard it normally during Clean-up, so would effectively gain it but without triggering any on-gain abilities).  If not, then you need to add "leaving it there" to the first option.
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The Alchemist

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2021, 06:35:50 pm »
+3



Chain Reaction:
Sometimes when things seem mostly under control, it just takes one trigger to start a chain reaction that can lead to catastrophe! Chain a bunch of these Reactions together and see how far you can go. The first play is pretty weak as far as trashers go, but if you can trigger it off another trash, it virtually becomes +3 cards discard a card, but with the option to replace the discarded card with one already in the trash, i.e. a lab with "trash sifting". Obviously combos incredibly well with trash-for-benefit. Costs $2 to be available in the open with any of the plethora of $5 trashers and so it can be remodeled from copper. The primary use of this card is as terminal draw (that needs collision), but with the added benefit of slowly thinning your deck (it net thins only once per first terminal play) and of course the interplay with the trash.
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2021, 06:58:28 am »
0

v2

I think the wording could be simplified a bit: "Choose one: Play a non-Command Action card in the trash twice; or trash a card from your hand and each other player discards a copy of it (or reveals they can't)."

I'm assuming it intentional that you do not leave the played card in the trash (you put it in play and then discard it normally during Clean-up, so would effectively gain it but without triggering any on-gain abilities).  If not, then you need to add "leaving it there" to the first option.

That wasnt intentional: thanks for pointing it out
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2021, 10:54:06 am »
0

I'm not sure if this has too much first-player advantage, or gives too much strength to a 5/2 opening.  But here's my submission anyway:



You can start by trashing a Copper to gain a Wish, but as soon as someone trashes an Estate, that is the benchmark (and a Copper usually gets you nothing unless Poor House is in the Kingdom).  But once someone self-trashes with this card, it becomes a much weaker card to everyone, since the benchmark is now trashing a minimum $5 card to get a Wish.  The consolation, $2 and trash to gain a card $1 more is fairly weak at $5 IMO, so you need to use it wisely.  And once someone trashes theirs, you will likely want to trash yours too.  But if someone trashes a $6 card with it first (usually would only happen with a $7 card in the Kingdom, like Bank, King's Court, etc), then even self-trashing the card is weakened.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2021, 12:05:41 pm »
+2

I'm not sure if this has too much first-player advantage, or gives too much strength to a 5/2 opening.  But here's my submission anyway:



You can start by trashing a Copper to gain a Wish, but as soon as someone trashes an Estate, that is the benchmark (and a Copper usually gets you nothing unless Poor House is in the Kingdom).  But once someone self-trashes with this card, it becomes a much weaker card to everyone, since the benchmark is now trashing a minimum $5 card to get a Wish.  The consolation, $2 and trash to gain a card $1 more is fairly weak at $5 IMO, so you need to use it wisely.  And once someone trashes theirs, you will likely want to trash yours too.  But if someone trashes a $6 card with it first (usually would only happen with a $7 card in the Kingdom, like Bank, King's Court, etc), then even self-trashing the card is weakened.
Yeah I think this is too swingy by only giving the first Estate the Wish. If this used Exile instead, then everyone could get a Wish from their first Copper/Estate. But then this guarantees 2 Wishes, which might make it too powerful.
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mathdude

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2021, 03:12:01 pm »
0

I'm not sure if this has too much first-player advantage, or gives too much strength to a 5/2 opening.  But here's my submission anyway:



You can start by trashing a Copper to gain a Wish, but as soon as someone trashes an Estate, that is the benchmark (and a Copper usually gets you nothing unless Poor House is in the Kingdom).  But once someone self-trashes with this card, it becomes a much weaker card to everyone, since the benchmark is now trashing a minimum $5 card to get a Wish.  The consolation, $2 and trash to gain a card $1 more is fairly weak at $5 IMO, so you need to use it wisely.  And once someone trashes theirs, you will likely want to trash yours too.  But if someone trashes a $6 card with it first (usually would only happen with a $7 card in the Kingdom, like Bank, King's Court, etc), then even self-trashing the card is weakened.
Yeah I think this is too swingy by only giving the first Estate the Wish. If this used Exile instead, then everyone could get a Wish from their first Copper/Estate. But then this guarantees 2 Wishes, which might make it too powerful.

It's not just the first Estate that gets a Wish.  It's every Estate trashed with this until someone trashes something more expensive than $2.  Does that make it too powerful then?  It's not just a $6 gainer (particularly early game), it's a $6 gainer that gains a card which matches well with the first hand you draw it with.  Should it then cost $6 instead of $5?  At that point, it's almost useless for trashing Estates/Coppers, and the card is already significantly weakened later in the game.  I think I'm okay leaving it at $5.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2021, 03:32:45 pm »
+2

It's not just the first Estate that gets a Wish.  It's every Estate trashed with this until someone trashes something more expensive than $2.  Does that make it too powerful then?  It's not just a $6 gainer (particularly early game), it's a $6 gainer that gains a card which matches well with the first hand you draw it with.  Should it then cost $6 instead of $5?  At that point, it's almost useless for trashing Estates/Coppers, and the card is already significantly weakened later in the game.  I think I'm okay leaving it at $5.
Oh I misunderstood. Then it's definitely too strong. It effectively remodels Estates into $6 cards... Expand costs $7 and only goes up to $5 for Estates. And even if it doesn't work anymore you still get a Priest effect, which is a very solid $4.
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majiponi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2021, 11:43:46 am »
+1

Submission Closed!
The result will be posted within 48 hours.
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majiponi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2021, 11:00:07 am »
+7

This was a tough one!  I'll post the results now, as I'm feeling sleepy now...
I'll post detailed feedbacks later...zzz.


WINNER:xyz123's Shaman
Congraturations!

2nd place:Mahowrath's Altruist
3rd place:Boomyday's Orchestra&Instruments


Thank you for all your works, everyone!


Foraging Village
$3 - Action
+1 Card and +1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. If it is a Victory card, trash this and +1 Card. Otherwise, +1 Action per differently named Action card in the trash.
 
This is similar to Hideout. Instead of gaining Curse, this is one-shot and $3-cost. Interesting, but +1 Action per a trashed Action card won't work well in most games; who wants to trash their precious Action card to help their opponents?


COMMODITY
$5 - Treasure
+1 Buy
Choose one: +$2; or +$1 per copy of Commodity in the trash; or trash this for +2 Coffers.

+2 Coffers is nice, but we usually don't like sacrificing $5-cost card. I think the second option rarely works.


Mausoleum
Landmark
When scoring, 1 VP per Action card you have that has a copy in the trash.

Good.


Shovel
$5 - Treasure
Cards in the trash cost $2 less this turn. You may buy a card from the trash.
-
Setup: add to the trash a random unused Supply pile costing $5, and one Gold per player.

Sounds nice. Maybe you should imply that you can play Treasures before buying.


Junk Shop
$4 - Action
Choose one: Trash 2 cards from your hand, or gain a card costing up to $1 per differently named card in the trash. If it costs more than this, trash this.

Fair.


Tannery
$4 - Action
You may trash a card from your hand for +1 Card per differently named non-Zombie Action card in the trash. If it was an Action, +1 Action.
-
The first time you buy this in a game, trash an Action card from the Supply.

Maybe you should say "differently named Action card trashed in this game in the trash" to go crazy with Shovel and Knights..., but not bad.



Altruist - $5
Action - Duration
Trash any number of Treasures from your hand for +$1 each.
At the start of each of your Buy phases for the rest of the game, you may gain a Treasure from the trash to your hand.
(This stays in play.)

Excellent! This works very well with other trashers like Remodel or Salvager!


Relic Excavators
$4 - Action
Exile a non-Victory card from the Trash. If it is an...
Action card, play it twice from Exile, leaving it there.
Treasure card, +2 Coffers.
Copper, discard all Action cards from your Exile.
(Heirloom: Worn Shovel)

Worn Shovel
$4 - Treasure - Heirloom
Trash a card from your hand. If it is an...
Action card, gain 2 Horses.
Treasure card, +$2, +1 Buy.
Victory card, gain an Action card costing $4 or less.

Too nice for $4.  +2 Coffers is a $5-cost effect.


Foundry
$4 - Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.
Choose one: +1 Card; or draw until you have 2 cards in hand for each differently named Treasure in the trash.

Good.


Carpenter
$5 - Action
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Choose a non-Victory card from the trash. You may Exile it's copy from the Supply.

Good, but I don't see why you gain from the Supply. Just saying "You may Exile a non-Victory card from the trash." isn't simpler?


Shaman
$4 - Action
Choose one: trash 2 cards from your hand; or look at one card from the top of your deck per card type in the trash. Trash or discard any number of them. Put the rest back in any order.

Wow! Strong Lookout or Doctor! It kills Looters almost completely! Very nice!


Way of the Vulture
Play a non-Command Action or Treasure card from Trash costing less than this, leaving it there.

Fine, but it'll be dead without a trasher.


Book of the Dead
$4 - Project
When you play an Action, if you have no other copies in play and at least one in the trash, play it twice instead.

Zzz...will it work often?


Ritual Tithe
$2P - Victory
Worth 1vp per differently named Treasure in the trash.
-
When you gain this, you may trash a card from your hand. Gain a Spoils per $1 it costs. Gain a Spoils onto your deck if it has P in its cost.
Heirloom: Chalice

Chalice
$3P - Treasure - Heirloom
+P
-
When you discard this from play, +1 Coffers.

Seems interesting, but as other players suggests, Chalice sometimes makes games too swingy.


Orchestra
$4 - Action
Trash a card from your hand, and gain a card costing exactly $1 more from the trash.
-
Setup: Put the instruments in the trash.

I don't fully understand Orchestra and its Instruments, but they "sound" nice. Great work!


Tomb Defiler
$5 - Action - Attack - Command
Choose 1: Play an non-command Action card in the trash twice; Or Trash a card from your hand. Each other player discards a copy of it, or reveals a hand with no copy of the card.

Fmm... I don't think the first option will be used so often.


Chain Reaction
$2 - Action - Reaction
+1 Card
Trash a card from your hand.
-
When one of your cards is trashed, you may play this from your hand. If you do, +2 Cards and gain a non-Victory card from the trash.

Fair.


Invention
$5 - Action
+$2
Trash this or a card from your hand. If there are no cards in the trash which cost more $ than it, gain a Wish from its pile. Otherwise, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

Nice work.
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #128: Look at the trash!
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2021, 04:05:25 pm »
+3

Wow

Didn't expect that. Thanks Majiponi.

*Puts thinking cap on to come up with ideas for the next competition*.
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