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Author Topic: Dominion Regional Qualifier, June 23 2012 @ Oakland University, Michigan  (Read 20540 times)

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Kirian

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Hello everyone, I'm the GM for the tournament at Oakland University.  It is an official qualifier.  One of the people here- I think an administrator contacted me, asked me to join so here I am!!!  Any questions please ask here, email or PM- whatever.  I gave the person who contacted me (admin I think) permission to post the 3pg. info document on this website so all could see.

That would have been me :)  But as you see, I'm not an admin :)
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andwilk

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If the tournament gets much bigger than 64 players is there a possibility of sending two players to the US finals?
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questioneer

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Ok just emailed the "bigs" at the forum the document/flyer to post - should be up soon. :)
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questioneer

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If the tournament gets much bigger than 64 players is there a possibility of sending two players to the US finals?

Good question.  Once we get at least 50 or so registered I'll ask Jay at RioGrande Games what he thinks.  I'll push for it.  This seems like a reasonable request.  We'll see.
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Razzishi

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Wow.  I'm also in the Detroit area.  I own the entire game and would love to get a local group going; my Magic friends aren't all that keen on the game as I am.
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questioneer

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Hello everyone, I'm the GM for the tournament at Oakland University.  It is an official qualifier.  One of the people here- I think an administrator contacted me, asked me to join so here I am!!!  Any questions please ask here, email or PM- whatever.  I gave the person who contacted me (admin I think) permission to post the 3pg. info document on this website so all could see.

That would have been me :)  But as you see, I'm not an admin :)

Thank you very much- this is quite a forum!!! :)
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questioneer

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I emailed you to get the flyer to upload :)  It wasn't me or rrenaud that contacted you, so whoever did on our behalf, thanks!

Thanks to the both of you!! :)
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questioneer

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Wow.  I'm also in the Detroit area.  I own the entire game and would love to get a local group going; my Magic friends aren't all that keen on the game as I am.

Yeah Magic isn't my thing.  Me, my wife and our friends always played Catan until we tried Dominion a year ago. 

Since then we have taught dozens of our friends to play- they instantly get hooked.  Nobody has rejected it yet.  For us, it has replace Catan.

I think what makes this game great is that non-gamers want to play it and find it addictive, as I have experienced when showing the game to others.

Easy to learn, yet hard to master = instant classic

For those interested I'm a big "Axis and Allies Global 1940" boardgamer as well.  You can find me on www.axisandallies.org/forums by the same user name.  I'm also an educator-math, chess coach and avid backgammon player.  Other games I like: Risk, Ikusa, Railways of the World and all Catan versions.  My favorite of course by far is Dominion.

Very cool forum...now I know where I can sharpen up my game. ;)

Razz...PM where you live, maybe I can hook you up with our group.
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theory

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Uploaded the flyer in the first post.  I hope you don't mind, but I removed the Dominion picture from the flyer.  It made the file 18KB instead of 2000+KB.

(I also fixed your avatar.)

A couple of suggestions:

* Using Total Victory Points leads to some bad incentives, for a lot of reasons.  What about just pure ranks, i.e., 1, 2, 3, 4?
* The flyer lists all the potential sets that may be used in the tournament.  This seems like something that the forum could easily work through to determine the optimal strategy...
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questioneer

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Uploaded the flyer in the first post.  I hope you don't mind, but I removed the Dominion picture from the flyer.  It made the file 18KB instead of 2000+KB.

(I also fixed your avatar.)

A couple of suggestions:

* Using Total Victory Points leads to some bad incentives, for a lot of reasons.  What about just pure ranks, i.e., 1, 2, 3, 4?
* The flyer lists all the potential sets that may be used in the tournament.  This seems like something that the forum could easily work through to determine the optimal strategy...

1. Thanks for the avatar fix and yes that's OK for cutting out the pic on the flyer- no needed of course.

2. As for the Total Victory Points- that is only a tie breaker if needed.  Which I don't see happening.  Advancment WILL be by rank first.  That rank is determined by Total Wins- if needed to break any ties in the ranking then Total Victory Points will be used.  For example, after 5 rounds of pre-lims with 32 players, the top 16 will advance to SE rounds.  If there is a tie for the 16th placement then we will determine who goes by Total Victory Points.

As far as individual games played in the Pre-lims, if in a 3 or 4 players game if there is a tie- both players will get credited for the win.  In SE rounds though- this can't happan so again we will have to go back to a Total Victory Points count to determine who advances.  So as you can see this will rarely happen, if at all.

I'm sorry this wasn't clear enough in the flyer.  Does it sound unclear to anyone else??  If it is, I'll go change it.  If you are registered, I will have your e-mail and you will get the updated flyer directly. 

BTW this system is almost what they use for the US Finals and Worlds, so I wanted to keep in line with what they do.  I say almost b/c they don't use the Vicotry Point tie-breaker.  I asked Jay what they used for ties in order to advance in single-elimination rounds in the US Finals and Worlds.  He said they flip a coin!!!  Ouch!!!  That's rough, that's why I put the Victory Point tie-breaker in for our tournament- softens the blow a bit.

3. The sets being used for the Pre-lims were determined based on how many games I received from RioGrande to use.  I wish I could do well-mixed sets (from 3 or more expansions), but because of the limited games we have (4 Base, 4 Intrigue, 1 Seaside, 1 Prosperity, 1 Hinterlands, 1 Cornucopia), we can't do that.  If we get more than 64players then I will have to ask RioGrandeGames for more game. 

4. There are 2 or 3 of the listed sets that I am concerned about that might take longer to play- past the 40-45min time limits (I can be flexible 5 extra min here if the game if close to being done.)  If I have to cut it off then I will need to use Victory Points when time is up to detemine winner(s) for those games.

5. As far as the forum working through these sets for the optimal strategy, what would be wrong with that if everyone has access to the same forum, which I am now telling others about???  All players are free to practice these sets as many times as possible.  Use the forums, whatever.  Everyone is on the same footing either way.  Also, I would think that this would make rounds faster, which is more desirable for all I think.  However, only 1/2 of the players will make it to the SE rounds.  At that point, sets will be randomized via a randomizer.  Promos may be used and you may see 3-5 expansions in each randomization b/c by reducing the number of players in SE, we will have the ability to use all the left-over expansions to make more diverse sets at that time.

What do you guys think about these issues???  I put out the announcement for this tourny early for a reason- so that we can iron out any glitches, this being our first major Dominion tourny in the area.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 10:39:25 am by questioneer »
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Rabid

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The problem with using total points at all (even if it is unlikely to happen).
Is that it changes player behaviour. 
I.e, In a Goons game, I'm way ahead and can end the game.
Or I can spend 5 minutes scoring another 50 points and not end the game just in case I need the tie breaker later.
Or worse collusion, all players agree to not end the game yet in a gardens game, just keep buying copper to boost all the players scores.

When you run out of time, are you going to make it so that all players have the same number of turns?

Also being flexible on time limits is bad I think.
If in the first round someone doesn't win because you impose the time limit.
Then next round you give an extra 5 minutes and it hurts them again, they are not going to be happy.
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questioneer

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Ah...I see- good feedback.

1. If you are playing a Goons type game and you are ahead and can end the game, but you want to rack up VPoints, then by all means do what you like.  IMHO you deserve to do this if you are in the lead.

2. However, with the time limit, you have convinced me to keep this a strict 40min limit.  I will give a 5min warning at the 35min mark and YES when time is up you must complete a round (all players have the same number of turns).

3. This is probably why they didn't use Victory Point as tie-breakers in the US Finals and the Worlds.  But would you like to do what they did for tie-breakers and flip a coin???  Which is worse???  Pick your poison.  It doen't matter to me- I'm flexible either way.  Eliminating the VPoint tie-breaker is easier for me.  We can just do Total Wins and I'll just bring a coin for the tie-breakers ;)  If people lose ties by a coin flip then people won't be happy either.   What do you guys think???
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 11:03:09 am by questioneer »
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Arya Stark

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Whatt!! how did I not know about this? hope theres still spots open ;D
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theory

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5. As far as the forum working through these sets for the optimal strategy, what would be wrong with that if everyone has access to the same forum, which I am now telling others about???
Nothing at all :D :D :D
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WanderingWinder

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Ah...I see- good feedback.

1. If you are playing a Goons type game and you are ahead and can end the game, but you want to rack up VPoints, then by all means do what you like.  IMHO you deserve to do this if you are in the lead.

2. However, with the time limit, you have convinced me to keep this a strict 40min limit.  I will give a 5min warning at the 35min mark and YES when time is up you must complete a round (all players have the same number of turns).

3. This is probably why they didn't use Victory Point as tie-breakers in the US Finals and the Worlds.  But would you like to do what they did for tie-breakers and flip a coin???  Which is worse???  Pick your poison.  It doen't matter to me- I'm flexible either way.  Eliminating the VPoint tie-breaker is easier for me.  We can just do Total Wins and I'll just bring a coin for the tie-breakers ;)  If people lose ties by a coin flip then people won't be happy either.   What do you guys think???

VP as a tiebreaker is worse than a coin flip. I am not kidding here. Just about anything is better than using total VPs...

questioneer

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Yeah, I think you are right Wanderer, and I see the reasons clearly now.  This is why Jay and Donald X don't do this at the US Finals and Worlds.

After some brainstorming, I have a way to make everyone happy.  We will do just straight up wins and ranking by win totals.  If there are any ties in individual games both will be credited for the win.  If there is a tie in for SE round placement or advancemnt then both will advance.  I can make this work.  I can split some games into 3 player games if I need to which is what they do at the US Finals and Worlds.  No coin flips and all ties get wins and advancement.  There- that was simple.  I'll change that on the flyer today or tommorrow.  Thanks for your help on this.

Sound good???  I think that will work and everyone will be happy.  Especially me b/c that's one less thing to keep track of.
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theory

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That sounds good.

Although I agree that technically VP as a tiebreaker is worse than a coin flip, perception matters as well.
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Kirian

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5. As far as the forum working through these sets for the optimal strategy, what would be wrong with that if everyone has access to the same forum, which I am now telling others about???
Nothing at all :D :D :D

More forumites!  We shall take over the Dominion World!!
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questioneer

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Whatt!! how did I not know about this? hope theres still spots open ;D

There is but don't waste time- I'm getting 1-2 registrations a day now. :)
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questioneer

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That sounds good.

Although I agree that technically VP as a tiebreaker is worse than a coin flip, perception matters as well.

Just sent the new flyer to you guys and everyone else your registered and metrogamers- the ones holding the con.  Please put the new one up ASAP.  Thanks- sorry for the inconvience.  Everything should be all set now- ready to rock!

This is gonna be awesome tourny- I wish I could play in it!!! ;D
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questioneer

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Update- Got about 20 signed up so far.  Our goal is to get at least 32players, however, we have room for 64.

Registration has slowed down a bit but I'm sure it will pick up as we get closer to the date.  Still plenty of room! :)
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questioneer

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Hello all,
 
Hope everyone had a relaxing Memorial Day weekend,
 
I just wanted to give everyone an update.  All is going well as far as preparations.  There are about 21-22 people signed up so far.  I would like to have at least 32, so if you have any friends that are interested in playing forward this info.
 
I attached the 3pg flyer and info/registration sheet again.  Feel free to print this off and copy for friends and/or players who may be interested. 
 
We will have room for up to 64 players if needed.  I don't see us getting to that number but you never know.  With 20 registered and maybe a few game day registrations we should hit the 32 mark.  If you plan on coming but haven't registered please do so- this helps with planning and raffling prizes and such.  Don't forget the winner will have an expense paid trip to Chicago in July at the US Finals.
 
You can email me for questions and such but most everything you'll need is on the attached document.  Come early- at least 11:30am- we will start at noon.  Should be a great time.  See ya then!!!
 
PS- new official Dominion online play to open soon:
http://playdominion.com/
 
PS2- new expansion coming in August, looks like a good one and the extra base card set:
http://www.dicetowernews.com/dominion-dark-ages/
http://www.dicetowernews.com/dominion-base-cards-coming-soon/
 
Shiloh Christie
Dominion Tourny GM

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meow

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For what it's worth, we just held a Regional Qualifier at KublaCon in San Francisco ( http://kublacon.com ).  It used a 3 round "moving brackets" (similar to Swiss but slightly easier to calculate) preliminary round.  4 people from each of 2 preliminary rounds advanced to the semifinals.  A "strength of schedule" setup was used as a tiebreaker.  Basically adding up the points for 1st-2nd-3rd of all opponents each person faced.  Given the feedback, probably better than using VPs.  Whether better or about the same as using a coin-flip or other "random event" seems an open question to me.

I grew up in Michigan, and have been thinking about getting back there for the summer.  Not sure if I might make it by June 23rd or not, but it is tempting :).

--
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Beyond Awesome

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Will there be a qualifier anywhere near Los Angeles or another one in California. These tournaments really need to be posted on these forums. I didn't even know about the tournament in KublaCon, and I'm sure many here didn't know about it either because no one posted. I really want to go to one of these Regional Qualifiers. Is there a website linking where they are taking place?
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theory

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I try to post every single one I can find to this subforum.  There isn't an organized collection of them (other than this forum), it appears.
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