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Author Topic: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands  (Read 5584 times)

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mxdata

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Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« on: August 10, 2021, 02:05:57 am »
+6



Idle Hands is a temporary junk card, but to get rid of it you have to use an Action. I originally came up with this while working on an entry for another contest. That card eventually died because the effect I wanted was impossible to achieve without absurdly long text, but I kind of regretted not being able to use this junk card. To some extent, this plays somewhat like an "anti-villager", eating up an Action when you use it. Therefore, its harmfulness would depend very much on the availability of +Actions in the kingdom

The number of Idle Hands follows the same pattern as Curses and Ruins, 10 for 2 players, 20 for 3 players, etc.

Your challenge is to create a card or card-shaped thing that uses this non-supply card in some way. It could be an Attack that hands out Idle Hands, or it could be a card that gives you Idle Hands as a penalty, or anything else

The contest will end in one week, at 2 AM forum time on 8/17/2021. Judging will be based on balance and how overall interesting the card is, and how well the card and Idle Hands work together
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LittleFish

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2021, 02:13:03 am »
+2

Quote
Horse Thief
Action-Attack
+
 Gain a Horse. Each other player Gains an Idle Hands.

I feel like Idle Hands is a sort of anti-horse, because a horse saves cards for later rather than giving an extra card sometime later.
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Timinou

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2021, 10:19:27 am »
+2



I initially wanted this to be able to give an Idle Hands and VP per unused Action, but I think that would be broken with Champion.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2021, 10:49:04 am »
+1

damn, timinou had the same idea as me. I'm gonna leave my entry here but might change it over the course of the week:

Quote
Loafing • Edict
At the start of your Buy phase, -1 Action (you can't go below 0), then gain an Idle Hands for each Action (not action card) you have.
withdrawing this
« Last Edit: August 12, 2021, 08:50:06 am by spineflu »
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Aquila

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2021, 04:03:50 pm »
+2



I initially wanted this to be able to give an Idle Hands and VP per unused Action, but I think that would be broken with Champion.
This suffers from infinite VP situations, since the Idle Hands return to the pile.


As junk, they're lighter than Ruins are, taking Ruined Library as a comparison. I quite like them as -Actions that kinda get in the way of draw, so I thought simple:
Quote
Buried Village - Action, $3 cost.
+2 Cards
+2 Actions

-
When you gain this, gain 2 Idle Hands.
Unlock its power over time.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2021, 04:15:53 pm »
+2

My Submission:


Quote from: Bacchanal
BACCHANAL

[Card art is part of the painting Bacchanal by artist Charles-Joseph Natoire. It shows figures sitting around outdoors engaged in celebratory activities, surrounded by others who are providing them with food and wine. A tree appears in the top right corner of the frame.]

+2 Actions
+1 Buy
+②
Gain an Idle Hands.

                               
ACTION
                                                                                               

A Festival that costs $4 but also junks you with an Idle Hands on play. Because each IH is effectively -1 Action, the net effect of each play is +1 Action, +1 Buy +$2. A disappearing Spices at $4 would probably be too strong, but that only happens if they collide. If you miss, you could end up either stuck with an IH you can't play (turning it into a junk card) or drawing a card dead. If you buy more of these in order to increase the chances of collision, you end up with more IHs, and an increased chance that you draw one of these dead when you play your excess IH. And the fact that this card doesn't draw makes it less likely to you will have an IH after you play one.

Of course, if you can increase the likelihood of collisions (e.g. with sifting) or find an additional source of +Actions, this can be a cheap way to get a powerful card.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 07:49:55 pm by emtzalex »
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Xen3k

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2021, 07:15:58 pm »
+2



Quote
Playful Devil - $4
Action - Attack
+1 Card
If this is the first time you played a Playful Devil this turn, +2 Actions, otherwise +1 Card.
Each other player may reveal an Idle Hands from their hand; if they don't, they discard a card and gain an Idle Hands to their hand.

A cheap attack card that is non-terminal the first time you play it. The Idle Hands will usually never cycle into your deck so this almost acts like a State attack. I don't think this is a very strong attack, unless it is supplemented by hand-size attacks, so I think the cost is reasonable. Feedback is appreciated.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2021, 10:43:21 pm »
+2

Resort
Action - $4
+3 Actions
You may gain an Idle Hands to your hand.



It's a slightly different Village that involves playing 2 cards to get the normal Village effect, but also has some flexibility.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 04:06:27 am by NoMoreFun »
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2021, 11:58:39 pm »
+1

Resort
Action - $4
+3 Actions
You may gain an Idle Hands to your hand.
_____
When you gain this, each player (including you) takes an Idle Hands

It's a slightly different Village that involves playing 2 cards to get the normal Village effect, but also has some flexibility.


Official game syntax would be:

Quote
each player (including you) gainstakes an Idle Hands.
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pubby

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2021, 01:58:40 am »
+7


edit: made cost $4
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 03:17:47 pm by pubby »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2021, 04:25:50 am »
0



Very clever design - I might like it even more than my Frozen Throne from the Snow competition.

This card is quite strong. You can chain them (though you have to start with 2 in hand). I also often find I have excess actions in Throne games so the Idle Hands may be a bonus more often than a penalty.

You might be able to get away with a $5 where the Idle Hands gain is optional. I think +1 Card Throne Room is too strong for $5 but this would be an interesting way to pull back on that power.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2021, 05:34:06 am »
+1



Play the action card your holding twice! but gain two Idle hands...

Edit:

Ooops. The card was pretty broken. This one should reflect my intention of the card, that you can play it once per card an extra time, but get junk into your deck. Should have some interaction with inspecting top of your deck cards, which are usually somewhat boring.

Edit 2: Another change.


Idle hands are, essentially, -1 Action tokens akin to horses being +1 Card tokens, so if you play a cantrip with copycat, your get +1 Action and card! but have to pay it next turn with two actions. i think thats balanced?

Also, i changed Idle hands a little bit: some formatting fixes, added a 2$ worth to it so  you can have a weak trashing for benefit, some art i think fits.


« Last Edit: August 12, 2021, 10:09:24 am by fika monster »
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Timinou

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2021, 09:41:05 am »
0



This compares quite well to vanilla Throne Room, given that if you draw this without any other Action cards in your starting hand, you have the option of playing it as a Moat.  Likewise, if you have two Lieges in your starting hand without any other Actions, you can still draw up to 4 cards even if you don't draw any additional Action cards.

Of course there is the downside of adding an Idle Hands to your deck, but as NoMoreFun pointed out, since it is gained to hand, they are easier to mop up (and could actually help more than hinder).
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 09:42:06 am by Timinou »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2021, 09:55:34 am »
0



I initially wanted this to be able to give an Idle Hands and VP per unused Action, but I think that would be broken with Champion.
This suffers from infinite VP situations, since the Idle Hands return to the pile.

That's a fair point.  I tried to design it so that just repetitively buying Public House each turn wouldn't be a viable strategy.  I suppose you could have a game where all players just do that and the game will never end, but the more optimal play is to try to build a deck that is capable of buying Provinces.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2021, 11:10:37 am »
+2



Play the action card your holding twice! but gain two Idle hands...
This is broken.... you can play the card as Way of the Copycat and then each of the plays you can play as Way of the Copycat again, leading to unlimited plays.
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2021, 11:11:09 am »
+1



Play the action card your holding twice! but gain two Idle hands...

The wording in the first sentence of this should probably be:

Quote
Play this twice.

(See Way of the Butterfly, Frog, Horse, Rat, Turtle). It could also be:

Quote
Play this card twice.

(See Way of the Chameleon).




Play the action card your holding twice! but gain two Idle hands...
This is broken.... you can play the card as Way of the Copycat and then each of the plays you can play as Way of the Copycat again, leading to unlimited plays.

This is a good point. Any card that give +Coin and +Buy (including Pawn, Peasant, and Herbalist) would allow you to buy every Victory card the first time you played them.

In some of my own designing, I have tried to come up with wording that distinguishes playing a card normally from playing it using Throne or other unconventional means, and I have not yet come up with language I really like. However, I think you have a number of good options to fix this.

One thing you could do would be to make the double play conditional on gaining the Idle Hands:

Quote
Gain two Idle Hands. If you did, play this card twice.

This is probably not enough, as you could still get the effect up to 5 times in a two player game, and multiples of that in games with more players. You could limit it to once a turn:

Quote
If you haven't done so this turn, gain two Idle Hands. If you did, play this card twice.

(There may be other ways to phrase this that makes it non-Conditional). I think the best way might be to use a parenthetical somewhat inspired by Experiment's on-gain text:

Quote
Play this card twice (not using Way of the Copy Cat either time). Gain two Idle Hands.

This hews most closely to your original design. It allows for it to be done multiple times, but avoids endlessly replay that is currently possible. I think this still might be too powerful, though. It much too easily enables a game-ending super-turn (especially if a player's discard pile is empty, so they have access to all of their Action cards before hitting the IHs). I think I would go back to making it conditional, which doesn't totally solve that problem, but does at least somewhat cap the total number of times it can be used.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 11:36:11 am by emtzalex »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2021, 12:54:00 pm »
+3

I would use "Follow this card's instructions twice". By not playing it again, you can't use the Way again.
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Gubump

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2021, 01:46:55 pm »
+3


This is strictly better than Smithy (if you Throne the Idle Hands the net effects are -1 Action +2 Cards which is the same as Smithy).

1. Play the Liege from your hand, you're down to 4 cards in hand.
2. Gain an Idle Hands to your hand. You have 5 cards in hand.
3. Play the Idle Hands from your hand; you have 4 cards in hand before resolving.
4. After resolving both plays of Idle Hands, you end up with a handsize of 6.
It's only +1 to handsize, not +2. It's a Moat variant, not a Smithy variant.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 01:53:21 pm by Gubump »
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pubby

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2021, 03:24:30 pm »
+2

This compares quite well to vanilla Throne Room, given that if you draw this without any other Action cards in your starting hand, you have the option of playing it as a Moat.  Likewise, if you have two Lieges in your starting hand without any other Actions, you can still draw up to 4 cards even if you don't draw any additional Action cards.

Of course there is the downside of adding an Idle Hands to your deck, but as NoMoreFun pointed out, since it is gained to hand, they are easier to mop up (and could actually help more than hinder).
I reckon it's better at drawing your deck than TR, but worse at multiplying your payload. Ideally you'd play it on villages, which is totally different from normal TR. I changed it to cost $4 though, as then you can't open double.
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2021, 03:33:54 am »
+1



EDIT: Slightly modified the text.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 05:53:31 am by grrgrrgrr »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2021, 08:10:40 am »
0



Play the action card your holding twice! but gain two Idle hands...

Edit:

Ooops. The card was pretty broken. This one should reflect my intention of the card, that you can play it once per card an extra time, but get junk into your deck. Should have some interaction with inspecting top of your deck cards, which are usually somewhat boring.

Idle hands are, essentially, -1 Action tokens akin to horses being +1 Card tokens, so if you play a cantrip with copycat, your get +1 Action and card! but have to pay it next turn with two actions. i think thats balanced?

Updated card
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spineflu

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2021, 08:54:38 am »
+1


Quote
Exhaust • $4 • Event
Once per turn: If the previous turn wasn't yours, gain up to 7 Idle Hands and take another turn after this one, drawing the same number of cards as the number of Idle Hands gained with this for your next hand.

swapping out Loafing for a Mission/Seize the Day variant. What if a bonus turn with seven cards? Well, be prepared to take on some junk for that. Take an extra turn with a zero card hand (on account of the Prince/Guide/Hireling/Summon set up you did) and no junking penalty? Go for it.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2021, 09:17:39 am by spineflu »
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2021, 09:03:10 am »
+1



Is it action card or an +1 action? Slightly confused
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emtzalex

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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2021, 01:02:56 pm »
0

This compares quite well to vanilla Throne Room, given that if you draw this without any other Action cards in your starting hand, you have the option of playing it as a Moat.  Likewise, if you have two Lieges in your starting hand without any other Actions, you can still draw up to 4 cards even if you don't draw any additional Action cards.

Of course there is the downside of adding an Idle Hands to your deck, but as NoMoreFun pointed out, since it is gained to hand, they are easier to mop up (and could actually help more than hinder).
I reckon it's better at drawing your deck than TR, but worse at multiplying your payload. Ideally you'd play it on villages, which is totally different from normal TR. I changed it to cost $4 though, as then you can't open double.

I think where this can get dangerous early is less in playing a double Liege and throning two of the Idle Hands, and more the possibility of playing a double Liege, throning one IH, then throning a village, then playing the other two IHs normally. If you just throne two IHs, you end up playing 4 cards (L,L,IH,IH), drawing 4 cards (2 per throned IH), and virtually drawing 3 cards (including the IH junk you're stuck with), and spending 1 Action, for a net effect of +3 Cards (one of which is junk, so really +2 Cards), -1 Action, or a Smithy which adds a piece of junk. Adding the village (this can be any drawing village), you end up playing 6 cards (L,L,IH,v,IH,IH), drawing 6 cards (2IH, 2v, IH, IH), and virtually drawing 3 cards (IHs, all of which get played), spending 3 Actions (on the initial Liege and the last 2 IHs) and getting 4 Actions (2 per play of the villager) for a net effect of +3 Cards, +1 Action which is a triple Lab + village (or a double Lab + Lost City) that gives you no junk at all. Plus, as long as you collide the 2 Lieges in your hand, you get 2 more cards to find the village.

This still requires you to collide the 2 Lieges, and it still ultimately requires you to have 3 different cards, so I don't think it's broken, but it is potentially very strong. Given that you can't set up this combo on your opening anyway, my first thought was that it doesn't matter if you raise it from $3 to $4. But since most of the villages you would use to set this up (Mining, Worker's, Farming, etc.) cost $4, it actually does matter, as you can only buy 1 component in the opening (unless there is a plain Village). In Shelter games you could use a Necropolis, but drawing 2 fewer cards turns it into a regular LC (that requires 3 cards to execute). With a Fishing Village it is a LC that gives you +$2, which is not at all bad, especially early when your money density is below $1 (or not that far above it). Hamlet can work as well, as it can end up functioning as something between a Hunting Grounds (with no discarding), and a Forum + LC (if you discard 2), with the potential to throw in +Buys; the only weakness is that you don't get to sift the last 2 cards (unless you want to discard the IHs, in which case you are getting junked).
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Re: Fan Mechanics Week 17: Idle Hands
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2021, 11:36:32 am »
+3

i would like a child board for Fan mechanic Contest, similar to the one WDC had: its been going on for 17+ weeks now, and it would probably be good for future organizing to keep it in on place
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 12:24:31 pm by fika monster »
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