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Author Topic: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)  (Read 73973 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1800 on: October 04, 2021, 04:57:22 pm »

Reading iguana's D1, it's clear he's not partnered with faust. He's fighting him way too much way too early.

surely that could be staged

Why? There's no reason to do that.

No reason to distance yourself from your partner?
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1801 on: October 04, 2021, 04:58:55 pm »

Reading iguana's D1, it's clear he's not partnered with faust. He's fighting him way too much way too early.

surely that could be staged

Why? There's no reason to do that.

No reason to distance yourself from your partner?

No reason to only interact with your scumbuddy. No reason to fight with your scumbuddy.

Meh I literally just got to a post that makes it possible faust and iguana are partnered so I don't feel like justifying this anymore.
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1802 on: October 04, 2021, 05:02:49 pm »

Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.

Scumslip and also Jimmmmm is town.

Maybe we should just flip math...yesterday...sigh...

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1803 on: October 04, 2021, 05:11:13 pm »

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

It's the home stretch now. Exile iguana today, math tomorrow.
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1804 on: October 04, 2021, 05:14:09 pm »

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

It's the home stretch now. Exile iguana today, math tomorrow.

--lose the game because faust got away with everything? Not on my watch. I'm outing the scumteam today, and that means rereading everything.
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1805 on: October 04, 2021, 05:38:31 pm »


I feel like I should clarify some of this.

The joth vote was a tiny scum ping which was big enough to warrant a first vote. You could call it semi-RVS.

#158 was really less about scumhunting and more about trying to engage with the game and not knowing how to. The main thing I want out of a Day 1 is to keep up and be engaged in discussions. "[player] is [alignmenty] for [reasons]" is far more helpful to that end than simply "[player] is [alignment]". It's also worth noting that I was not talking about voting without reason, rather making statements with some degree of apparent certainty.

The vote on EFHW was a "reward" for WCD giving reasons for a read. I did not consider the state of wagons at the time.

PPE

I'm gonna back us up a million years and point this post out. I thought it was townie. I basically was trying to articulate a town read on Jim and he rejected my townread as a misreading of his posts. If you are scum, I think you take the free town points when you are under pressure.

At the time, I was going to share this as a reason to think that Jim was town. Then, e pointed out if Jim is the towniest, we should look on wagon for scum and went for Mathdude. That's why I ended up there. Then Jim did a million things, and some of them were scummy as hell TBH and recently he's been hella towny again and I'm starting to lose track.

But the fact remains that this was a townie post and it was produced not before any pressure was on him but at least before tons and tons of people were starting to say he was the best exile and so I think it has more weight to it than posts he was making specifically knowing that he was fighting for his life.

As for Math himself, that is a tough one to read.

Last game Math was town, and I didn't share this but I read almost everything Math said as scum. I also noticed in the speccy at the end, where MiX and Galz had solved most of the game, they continually thought Math was the last scum with EFHW/faust instead of Dylan up onto the innocent result on him. And I remember also that outside of Dwarves mafia and Oz mafia he has been exiled D1 a lot, correctly and incorrectly, or something like that.

But there was one post last game that really made me think Math was town and so I just ignored the other scummy stuff. I'm gonna quote the relevant part:

So this is mostly to say I'm starting to become aware of my biases in trying to read people.

So here it is not just what he said but the way he said it that is just so townie a new player couldn't make that stuff up. "I'm starting to become aware." He's right there in the thread... realizing that he OMGUS voted me for no good reason and starting to become aware of his biases. Well... scum isn't starting to become aware of anything... they already know most things. So based on that one sentence I had a townread on Math.

This game... there is not that one sentence. There's actually a similar sentence.

-snip
 I believe I have fallen victim to this many times. When I start finding someone scummy, I often find it very hard to look at them objectively again. I just find more things that I think are scummy. And it gets worse if I start digging in and posting reasons for my scum read on them.
-snip

But this time, Math is talking about it as a hypothetical. Last game he was "starting to become aware" of his biases in the present tense. This game he's talking about it as a hypothetical... something he's seen many times but its not happening now.

Okay... so I'm realizing now as I type this all out that I've become incredibly fixated on a single sentence from a previous game that I used as my be-all-end-all to read a player who to be honest I sometimes find confounding and even aggravating.

But... as a whole... I think the argument still stands that Math is scummy because there is a lack of any kind of town-slip type post like he had in Oz.

So EFHW. EFHW started out scummy and then there were some posts that made me question it. This one is important I think.

I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Of course. Your arguments are not very strong though, because Jimmmmm is an experienced player and OMGUS and policy voting are newbie reactions. This makes me concerned that you are scum trying to misexile him.

I'm talking at cross-purposes with myself here, however. I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

vote: Jimmmmm

"I think I see careful maneuvering." To me, this about face on Jim of going from "Let's not restrict ourselves to faust and Jim" and then back to Jim again but for what look like very authentic reasons is a townie looking post. It was also one of the better arguments that Jim could be scum. So when I was reading along it was here that I was thinking, maybe Jim is actually doing this big scum show.

That being said, now I am thinking Jim is town again... so I am back to EFHW is tunneling and pushing an exile I don't feel good about. Last game I thought I had her as scum... and then she convinced me with a pretty nice case on pubby (who I thought was scum but he was town). So I know she can make a strong argument for a townie being scum as scum.

I also agree with MiX that her posts kind of egging on faust and Jim could be a scum thing. She has the town defense of really wanting to know, which she just now articulated, but as scum I think fanning those flames could be a legitimate tactic in order to distract. I also thought her most recent post saying that she didn't extend the discussion that much was kind of disingenous. Besides... the result has nothing to do really with the attempt.

So... bleh... I'm kind of all over the place with EFHW right now.

2 unknowns, 1 flipped town. I can't make sense out of these posts. They're not fitting my scum!iguana mold.

Does someone else have an idea?
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1806 on: October 04, 2021, 05:42:24 pm »

So WCD I think has got to be town for now for my sanity's sake. MiX said that I remind Mix of himself or faust but I don't really see that. Actually the person here who reminds me of myself is WCD (except she's nicer; I'm a jerk). I noticed that last game... both of us were often reading the game the same way. So that has continued this game with us starting the EFHW wagon at first as a sort of RVS but then she was saying that EFHW was defensive right as I was reading EFHW's response to the the wagon and finding it scummy & defensive.

Also, there are a smattering of posts throughout from Didds that I agree with. Here's one:

Can someone tell me why mathdude is scummy?

And the big argument on jimmmm is that he's active?

I don't know...I think if we're taking a shot in the dark someone like Swowl who is just busy elsewhere (which is always super good scum cover, if need be) seems like less of a loss.

So... I don't actually agree on Math. But I have similar feelings about Jim, and am starting to feel the same way about Swowl because despite his continual assurances that he's going to show up, he still hasn't. And at some point that kind of activity goes from null to scummy when you haven't actually posted a VLA.

I realize that it's dangerous to assume that someone who has the same thought process as you is therefore town... but it worked out last game, so for now I am townreading WCD and just leaving that as very much not set in stone.

Okay looks like gkrieg is here so I will read him next.

General impression: gkrieg's posts are like a wall I can't see through at all. So I am going to force myself to read him based on his reads.

So he's defending EFHW... scummy I guess?
But he's voting Mathdude... towny I guess?

And he's back right now and pushing Math hard.


This post is why I'm voting mathdude. Deciding to EOL, and actively pushing people toward it is a "townie" thing to do that scum tend to do more than town. Specifically so they can avoid commenting on other wagons, or so they can look like they are doing something without actually doing something. Specifically when they don't offer any direction on which of the ~6 people that could be voted for.

Especially saying, "we should definitely look at these people [...] soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours." instead of saying who out of those people is scummy.

Ok... this is almost a stupid reason to quote this post but what does EOL mean? I literally can't parse a word of this post because I don't know that acronym.

Ok and it looks like in his most recent post... he's actually scumreading EFHW? So that should be townie... except it doesn't make sense that he was defending EFHW from a wagon two days ago and now he's interrogating the people who are defending EFHW. So question #2 for gkrieg, what's up with that?

And yeah... gkrieg's reads seem townie but his posts are null. I don't think I have the capacity to read gkrieg until we see flips.

These too. These look scummier to me.
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1807 on: October 04, 2021, 05:46:08 pm »

Hmm...

yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.

Sure. So I will read Joth now.

Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum.

Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Specifically (after reading) what's different between Joth and the scum game I read is that Joth in the scum game had a really hard time making cases and would literally say like "IDK... I gues we could exile Scolapasta???" in response to questions about who he scumread and in this game he does nothing but post cases and reasons for scumreading people.

Oh yeah... and Joth was one of the others who was starting to convince me that Jim could be scum.

The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

On top of that, he has:

-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).

There's like a lot here, fam. This isn't just nonsense.

This was a decent case. Well, I don't know about the MiX-partner-theory part. (I'm a little leery of partner theories RN because they screwed me last time.) But the other parts were convincing.

Ah...

*iguana's wall about me*

Uh...

Okay, who is left to take a look at?

Lalight, Swowl, Joust'emmmmmm, 2.7

2.7: There's not much there, but I think what's there is towny.

Which exchange? Everything I read from jimmmm screamed town

IDK why, but to me that little bit of flair of Jim "screamed" town is something town says, not scum. Maybe it's just something e says though.

And as I've said... I like the Math case.

Lalight: I see nothing strongly alignment indicative in their posts themselves, and they are focused on faust and MiX... two of the players I have less figured out. I am just null on Lalight.

Joust'emmmmmmm:

What can I say? They definitely jousted. So they lived up true to their name. If I had to pick a scum from one of them... I'd pick faust because I'm sick of faust beating me literally every time he's scum. But actually I am null-ish on faust and town-ish on Jimmmmmmm and really don't want to exile either one today. And I kind of don't want to reread all of their ISOs because they're huge and it's about to be my weekend.

Oh...

Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

I will just. Stop rereading. I don't think I'm in the right headspace, considering this is the first time I realized iguana had cased everyone around this time.

I will be back tomorrow.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1808 on: October 04, 2021, 06:13:29 pm »

Hi friends- I just got home from work and I am DONE. Tomorrow is a WFH day so Iíll catch-up then.

xoxo
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mathdude

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1809 on: October 04, 2021, 10:43:22 pm »

Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.

Scumslip and also Jimmmmm is town.

Maybe we should just flip math...yesterday...sigh...

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

I like how you keep hedging on where to go next. Calling out partners and teams. We don't even know which way to look until we sort out which of e and iguana is scum. So rather than help the undecided find the truth about e's claim, you keep focusing on things that are less relevant to today's vote.

If you weren't Mason, it'd be too easy to call you scum.
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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1810 on: October 05, 2021, 01:16:05 am »

I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1811 on: October 05, 2021, 03:38:16 am »

Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.

Scumslip and also Jimmmmm is town.

Maybe we should just flip math...yesterday...sigh...

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

I like how you keep hedging on where to go next. Calling out partners and teams. We don't even know which way to look until we sort out which of e and iguana is scum. So rather than help the undecided find the truth about e's claim, you keep focusing on things that are less relevant to today's vote.

If you weren't Mason, it'd be too easy to call you scum.

You're so bad at this if this is a real thought you have. Am I the only one rereading? Am I the only one taking this game seriously?

I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1812 on: October 05, 2021, 03:40:20 am »

I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
My case actually implicates iguana and falls apart if e is scum.
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1813 on: October 05, 2021, 03:44:43 am »

I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
My case actually implicates iguana and falls apart if e is scum.

Oh yeah I forgot about that detail. I disagree with it completely. I was trying to reread Swowl too to see if he's scummy on his own right.
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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1814 on: October 05, 2021, 03:49:50 am »

I have no idea why you would disagree. It's painfully obvious to me.
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MiX

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1815 on: October 05, 2021, 03:58:29 am »

I have no idea why you would disagree. It's painfully obvious to me.

I don't think breadcrumbs are that clear cut. What you said is true, or is not true, and I don't have a particularly good reason to think it's true other than you saying it.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1816 on: October 05, 2021, 04:09:57 am »

I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
My case actually implicates iguana and falls apart if e is scum.

Oh yeah I forgot about that detail. I disagree with it completely. I was trying to reread Swowl too to see if he's scummy on his own right.

I think we are at the point where it is more useful to look at people based off how they have reacted to wagons, claims, etc., and not "in their own right"

For example, even talking about swowl, the case is convincing to me, but it will always be theoretical for MiX and others until the flip happens
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1817 on: October 05, 2021, 04:10:39 am »

I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
My case actually implicates iguana and falls apart if e is scum.

Oh yeah I forgot about that detail. I disagree with it completely. I was trying to reread Swowl too to see if he's scummy on his own right.

I think we are at the point where it is more useful to look at people based off how they have reacted to wagons, claims, etc., and not "in their own right"

For example, even talking about swowl, the case is convincing to me, but it will always be theoretical for MiX and others until the flip happens

"The flip" being for today's exile of iguana/myself
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1818 on: October 05, 2021, 04:17:59 am »

I have no idea why you would disagree. It's painfully obvious to me.

I don't think breadcrumbs are that clear cut. What you said is true, or is not true, and I don't have a particularly good reason to think it's true other than you saying it.
But Swowl has refused to explain his "read" on EFHW, and still could not provide any reason for why he changed his read on her...
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1819 on: October 05, 2021, 06:02:42 am »

Good morning friends!

So, weíve heard from everyone now. There isnít any tension with eís claim that I see. Iím going to wait to vote until faust and whomever else have had time to reread, but I donít have any reason to disbelieve e so I plan to vote for iguana.

Iguana, I wanted to say this now, if youíre scum, you have played really well in my opinion. Your posts defending yourself are well articulated and the frustration seems authentic. The fact that there is this much doubt speaks to how well youíve played.

Catching up. Agree with this post pretty much entirely.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1820 on: October 05, 2021, 06:31:25 am »

From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

Could you expand on your perspective? From my perspective I don't think we should

Okay, sure. We are 6 town and 3 scum with 5 to exile. That puts us in a position where it will really help to PoE scum to win. I think claims will help us PoE scum.

iguana, what did you mean here by "my perspective"? You seem to suggest you have some extra information, but then the reason you give is from a global perspective, and then you claim VT. Why not just come straight out and say "I think we could PoE if we massclaim"?
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1821 on: October 05, 2021, 11:54:41 am »

Would someone just kill me? I need to apologize to gkrieg in the speccy.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1822 on: October 05, 2021, 11:55:24 am »

From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

Could you expand on your perspective? From my perspective I don't think we should

Okay, sure. We are 6 town and 3 scum with 5 to exile. That puts us in a position where it will really help to PoE scum to win. I think claims will help us PoE scum.

iguana, what did you mean here by "my perspective"? You seem to suggest you have some extra information, but then the reason you give is from a global perspective, and then you claim VT. Why not just come straight out and say "I think we could PoE if we massclaim"?

What can I say? I'm a real poet.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

jotheonah

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1823 on: October 05, 2021, 01:56:39 pm »

well since you asked so nicely

vote: iguana

That's L-1
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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jotheonah

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1824 on: October 05, 2021, 01:56:49 pm »

err E-1
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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