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[Swowl]

Okay caught up. Before I say anything else, and before we exile anyone, I want to hear Swowl's reply.

unvote

All I did was re read at night and decide I was wrong on my day 1 read.
After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.

[2.71828.....]

I said in a recent post what I believe scum!e's and town!e's opinion would be to continuing the massclaim, after he claimed his result on iguana.  I figured he would want it not to continue if town, to protect the rest of town roles.  But he didn't stop us from claiming.  That points me toward thinking he's scum.

I felt like I was pretty clear anti-mass claim. That was the whole reason I jumped in line, to prevent any other claims (except obviously iguana would claim something)

By the time the mass claim continued I had lost my ability to influence it one way or the other. But that was a significant period of time between my claim and it continuing along, I think I did post something about being fine with it continuing, but again, that was after a significant time attempting to stop the mass claim and really just resigning myself to it

[2.71828.....]

e, what were you trying to achieve by "stringing it along", but also immediately calling iguana scum and voting for him without providing much of a reason?

Also, when did you decide that iguana would be your target? Did you think much during the Night about what you might do with whatever result you got?

 I did not think much overnight about what I would do whatever the result. I had a short period of time between getting the result and the thread opening, and in that period is where I developed all my wonderful ideas. Immediately calling iguana scum was meant as a soft claim of sorts. The overconfidence was meant to spur reactions, then I would follow with my claim. Originally, the whole full cop/1-shot cop was meant to draw the NK N3 then end up not actually being as important since I was 1-shot. I decided that lying wasn't a good idea, so I would just claim "cop with a N2 result" and see who would press me for additional results, imagining that they might be scum. In my mind, I wasn't lying, I was withholding information. Which, yeah, not telling the full truth is a lie, especially because my intention was for people to imagine me as a full cop. I did want to claim before any sort of mass claim, the idea being that scum doesn't need any additional info, and town can use their PRs as they see fit, and I trust town to do what is right. At least what they think is right.

I put iguana down as an initial target at the start of the night with the thought to go back and rethink if I should target someone else. I didn't do that and just stayed on iguana.

Bold added above for emphasis...

On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.

So who did you investigate N1?

So e, what are your thoughts of faust, in light of this? I know many have been back and forth on him, based on his strong reactions here D3.

As soon as I got my result, I was convinced faust was town. When he was the one to ask about N1 results I was disappointed: I wanted that to come from someone, I don't know, like you.

As the day progressed, that read slowly changed, as you can see here:

I have no clue how to respond to faust at this point. He is so lost in his own little world

I mean, he is doing great eroding my read that since iguana is scum, faust must be town.

The read changed finally when faust claimed for MiX and Didds:

Also, even more suspicious of faust.

Claiming masons for MiX/Didds is MVP play right there... If scum win (and faust is scum)

Again, I have distracted from this but want to bring it up again. Why does town!faust claim for the masons? Simple answer, he doesn't. A good bit of discussion has gone into the timing of my claim and if I had the nefarious purpose of getting extra town cred from scum!e (not the case).

Zero discussion on faust claiming for other people. I think that above anything else is reason for faust to be on top of the list for possible D4 exiles

[2.71828.....]

"zero" discussion is an exaggeration. MiX acknowledged and dismissed it as excited town. I don't buy that though.

[WestCoastDidds]

What’s the logic for scum!faust outing us? Especially with so much heat on me EOD D2? He created two ICs and made the POE much stronger against everyone else.

[2.71828.....]

What’s the logic for scum!faust outing us? Especially with so much heat on me EOD D2? He created two ICs and made the POE much stronger against everyone else.

He didn't create two ICs. Your role as mason did that.

He identified you correctly for town cred. Despite my objections, a mass claim was going to happen. As scum, whether it comes out early or late didn't matter. It comes out and you have to deal with it. faust found a way he thought could get him some town credit. Make lemonade out of lemons if you will.

[MiX]

What’s the logic for scum!faust outing us? Especially with so much heat on me EOD D2? He created two ICs and made the POE much stronger against everyone else.

He didn't create two ICs. Your role as mason did that.

He identified you correctly for town cred. Despite my objections, a mass claim was going to happen. As scum, whether it comes out early or late didn't matter. It comes out and you have to deal with it. faust found a way he thought could get him some town credit. Make lemonade out of lemons if you will.

Does he need the towncred? He knows I'm uncondionally townreading him from EoD1. There's no reason to buddy us.

[2.71828.....]

What’s the logic for scum!faust outing us? Especially with so much heat on me EOD D2? He created two ICs and made the POE much stronger against everyone else.

He didn't create two ICs. Your role as mason did that.

He identified you correctly for town cred. Despite my objections, a mass claim was going to happen. As scum, whether it comes out early or late didn't matter. It comes out and you have to deal with it. faust found a way he thought could get him some town credit. Make lemonade out of lemons if you will.

Does he need the towncred? He knows I'm uncondionally townreading him from EoD1. There's no reason to buddy us.

No, that's a fair point. It is also PoE confirmation bias playing in, knowing everyone can't be town.

as I talked about here earlier, this is what I am looking at:

Conf!town
MiX/Didds- mason
e - 1 shot cop

Conf!scum
iguanaiguana

All Else- 2 scum in 5
Swowl
faust
mathdude
Jimmmmm
jotheonah

Someone has to be scum. You may not have to deal with it at all, but it will come up (D5 of you exile me today, D4 if we exile iguana).

Which two of swowl, faust, math, jimmmm, and joth are scum? My reads point me to faust + ???? (Lean math right now, but want to let that sit for a while)

[faust]

So, here's the thing with Swowl.

D1, he reads EFHW as scum. Then on day 2, he comes out saying this:

Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

I had already put this down as a potential crumb at the time, and you'll see I haven't pressed for either Swowl or EFHW after that. This was reinforced later in the Day when he was explicitly asked about it by gkrieg:

@Swowl, why were you being stupid thinking EFHW was scum D1?

1. Because I was being stupid.

At the time, this reinforced my scumread on gkrieg because he seemed to be rolefishing. Swowl doubles down on not explaining his change of mind here.

One might argue that Swowl wasn't aware that his behaviour might be read as a crumb, and in his answer today he tries to play this off as a simple reads change. However, then there is this post, which shows he is very aware of things being potentially read as crumbs:

1. I would rather not go into why I think this is Town!MiX (that is not a crumb, it is reads based). But yeah... town mix.

The EFHW read very explicitly did not have that same disclaimer.

So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

So ultimately I am convinced to

Vote: iguana

[MiX]

So, here's the thing with Swowl.

This implies Swowl planned on killing EFHW from SoD2.

[faust]

I mean, he doesn't need to kill EFHW. It helps his claim but it's not integral.

I am more convinced now that Swowl is scum than that iguana is, but it wouldn't be sensible to exile outside of e/iguana today.

[faust]

The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds count 3.1

Iguana (3): 2.71, Swowl, faust
2.71 (1): iguana

Not Voting (5): MiX, mathdude, Jimmmm, jotheonah, WestCoastDidds

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 will end Wednesday, October 6, 2021, at 3:00 pm forum time.

[MiX]

Cmon scum quickhammer please. I wanna win.

[MiX]

Just glossed over my D1 VCA. Why didn't we flip math or joth yesterday...sigh...

[jotheonah]

Intent to vote iguana whenever everybody’s cool with it.

[iguanaiguana]

So Swowl is acting exactly like 2.7's partner, and Faust goes to hell and back to justify that Swowl is acting like my partner based on misreading a breadcrumb based only on saying he was stupid, and now he's off voting scum and onto town and everyone is just fine with it?

[Jimmmmm]

I think I understand the reasoning for your Swowl Cop read, and would put it down to his being fixated on joth/math for whatever reason.

[jotheonah]

So Swowl is acting exactly like 2.7's partner, and Faust goes to hell and back to justify that Swowl is acting like my partner based on misreading a breadcrumb based only on saying he was stupid, and now he's off voting scum and onto town and everyone is just fine with it?

We’re not fine with it but we know that today’s exile has to be you or e. Faust scrutiny will come tomorrow.

[MiX]

Intent to vote iguana whenever everybody’s cool with it.

Why would you vote now? It's so early.

[Swowl]

The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.

I said exactly “I thought  I could draw the night kill”.

[Dylan32]

Tasks were taking a while to finish, since a couple tasks needed every Crewmate to do their part before it would be done. While they waited, Cyan looked at their screen to see what all they had left to do, when suddenly a wave of static washed over the screen hiding the information. Someone had sabotaged the ship's communications!

Vote Count 3.1

iguanaiguana (3): 2.71828....., Swowl, faust
2.71828..... (1): iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): MiX, mathdude, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, jotheonah

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 will end Wednesday, October 6, 2021, at 3:00 pm forum time.

*Fixed to account for joth's unvote.

[mathdude]

Zero discussion on faust claiming for other people. I think that above anything else is reason for faust to be on top of the list for possible D4 exiles

Today is obviously e vs iguana.

So Swowl is acting exactly like 2.7's partner, and Faust goes to hell and back to justify that Swowl is acting like my partner based on misreading a breadcrumb based only on saying he was stupid, and now he's off voting scum and onto town and everyone is just fine with it?

We’re not fine with it but we know that today’s exile has to be you or e. Faust scrutiny will come tomorrow.

Exactly. Tonight's result will influence tomorrow's discussions, obviously. If we get tonight wrong, we exile the other (e or iguana) tomorrow, but not before good discussions about partners... which would obviously still happen if we get tonight right.

Faust, joth, me, Swowl and Jimmmmm are all on tomorrow's discussions.

[mathdude]

I've said multiple times that I think it's almost too convenient that everything lines up for if e is lying scum. I think that's the answer, and since that will no longer put him at X-1, I will
Vote: e

[iguanaiguana]

So Swowl is acting exactly like 2.7's partner, and Faust goes to hell and back to justify that Swowl is acting like my partner based on misreading a breadcrumb based only on saying he was stupid, and now he's off voting scum and onto town and everyone is just fine with it?

We’re not fine with it but we know that today’s exile has to be you or e. Faust scrutiny will come tomorrow.

There's a problem with that. You are saying you intend on misexiling a town today because of your Faust scrutiny. Would you please maybe scrutinize a little more?