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Author Topic: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)  (Read 174705 times)

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iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
« Reply #1575 on: September 30, 2021, 07:15:26 pm »

So, time to defend myself. I am going to try to walk people through what I was thinking during some of the major phases of the game so far

Ironically, a lot of my D1 scumread on Mathdude was actually informed by how I thought that 2.7 and his case on Math were towny and therefore the Math wagon was town driven.

I got a very towny vibe from the posts (starting here) that 2.7 made when he came into the game and suspected Math. Specifically, 2.7 made the "Jim screamed town" comment that really stuck out to me as something I thought a town would say. It also jived with my own sense that Math was saying a lot of scummy sounding things and Jim was saying a lot of townie sounding things and that the Jim wagon had to have scum who hopped on it trying to capitalize on faust's scumread.

That being said, Mathdude sounded scummy during the Oz game a lot, but turned out to be town and really only made a few townie comments that I could use to know he was town and a lot of just either off-the-wall comments or scummy sounding comments in that game. So to me, just hearing scummy comments from Math wasn't enough reason to vote him. That's why 2.7's case that it was Math's placement on a wagon that was scummy was what pushed me over the edge to really seeing a scum!Math narrative.

My Math scumread persisted until EoD1, when I looked back at the wagons over night and concluded that if Math had been scum and Joth had been town, Math would almost certainly have moved his vote onto Joth. No one had moved to the Jim wagon that he was on over a long period of time, and people were starting to leave it. So if scum!Math had moved to Joth, Joth would have come much closer to exile, so for Math to hesitate on switching his vote off Jim before he left for the day seemed really townie to me. If you're scum, why not just take the pressure off yourself when you know you can get a misexile either way? But if you're town, you don't always want to move onto another player if you don't feel good about it, so you hold off until the last minute and maybe miss a deadline. So with Joth & Jim being two of my top townreads D1, I felt that Math's hesitation to move from Jim to Joth even when it would preserve his own life was actually very towny.

The same argument didn't really apply to Joth, because at the point he signed off, there was only faust and MiX voting him, so although I thought he was towny based on his meta, I didn't see his failure to switch wagons at EoD as a towny move. That was part of the reason that I've been going back and forth of Joth so much. Because if Math is town, that would mean that the wagon on him was most likely either T v T or scum!Joth v Town!Math.

That is why I came into D2 and immediately picked a fight with MiX because for some reason (that I still don't understand!) MiX had reread the EoD1 and actually come to the opposite conclusion from mine about Math, and that made very little sense to me. At the time, though, I didn't want to share my reasoning for why I found Math towny because I felt like scum would still want to push the Math exile, and that if I held back on my reads, scum would feel more likely to push him again D2 and that I would be able to analyze those interactions and find scum D2 better than the nothing D1.

I ended up thinking gkrieg was scum mostly because of his placement on the Math wagon, and pushed him equally for his lurking and also because the more I looked back at D1, the more it felt like the Math wagon from D1 had scum on it whether Joth was town or Joth was scum. I also was having a love-hate kind of relationship with faust at that point, to where I had to kind of convince myself that even though my gut was calling him scum for no good reason, he's still more likely town than scum, and usually when faust is town he's a really good scum hunter. So with faust pushing gkrieg, and gkrieg looking like the scummy vote on the Math wagon, I started to feel really good about a gkrieg exile.

WCD was saying she didn't think gkrieg was scum by the end, but just wanted an exile. But I had total tunnel vision that gkrieg was lying scum right up to the flip, and the facts of his Math vote and my townread on Math were pushing me to think that way regardless of what he tried to say to defend himself. I also really did not like that he wasn't elaborating much on his Math vote when defending himself, which made me think even more that his Math votes were just manufactured scum votes.

The final irony is kinda like the first one. It turns out I actually was right about there being scum on the Math wagon, but I just had picked the wrong Math voter. 2.7 tricked me D2 into still thinking he was town by backing off his Math scumread shortly after I announced that I also had backed off it. Then he started to suspect faust shortly after I announced that I suspected faust. What I didn't realize is that most likely he was looking at my posts for cues about how he should be reading things and copying my opinions D2 because I was a player who sheeped him D1. So yeah that basically brings us up to today where I am kicking myself for pushing gkrieg yesterday when I should have been pushing 2.7.

Other than that, I'm in a really awkward position here as VT because I don't have any special information I can share that reveals my towniness. I'm guessing that scum must have looked through my ISO last night and guessed from my active play that I was VT and decided that would make me a good person to try to incriminate. I'm also thinking that scum is among players who don't know my meta very well, because everyone who knows me knows that I don't play anything like this at all as scum. So I know I said faust (I kind of always leap to that -- faust complex) but actually faust knows that I'm the towniest towny, so I don't think he's on the team here. I'm going to say the team is probably 2.7, with Jimmm and maybe Joth because those are the players who know my town MO the least and wouldn't know that I'm a bad target for a gambit like this.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1576 on: September 30, 2021, 07:43:37 pm »

Another thing that makes me town here is just the meta aspect of my play, which I think some people are probably underestimating.

I literally have NEVER EVER been able to muster this kind of activity, scumhunting, or anything like it as mafia before. The closest I've ever come were two games, Breaking Bad mafia where I was basically serial killer, and Rewind Mafia II where I was a survivor-vigilante. But both of those games didn't feel anything like being on a conventional mafia team, and so I was able to filter out the fact that I was scum and focus on the very real scumhunting that I could do and basically just play a pro-town game as a non-town player.

In contrast to that, you can see #s based differences in my mafia games every single time.

So I dug around a lot and the last time I was straight mafia was in Space Alert and that is a really exemplary mafia game for me. In that game, I make a grand total of 57 posts across several days of being alive. Here's an exemplary post from that game:

I get Faust's case on me and I have lurked as scum before because I was overwhelmed as scum before. But actually I got over that and I was really really active as scum in Rewind and Breaking Bad, both of my last two games.

This game I felt overwhelmed because it's based on a board game I don't know how to play well and everyone was talking about how to do it. So I lurked because I really didn't know what to add.

Faust's case on me isn't bad as in he is scummy for making it, it's just out of date.

Sorry it took so long to respond to it. IRL sucked for a bit there.

Basically, I still hadn't figured out how to not lurk as mafia, so I point at my survivor game and my serial killer game as evidence that I don't lurk as scum, then complain about having a hard time getting into the setup as an excuse for lurking. But actually, I'm lurking again because I'm mafia and still don't know how to do it. Inspiring play!

I could dig more; I've been mafia about half a dozen times, and I lurked every single time and every single time it I was exiled. But it would honestly be a waste of time to find six more examples of scum!Iguana making excuses for lurking hard.

Instead, I challenge anyone here to find one single example of a mafia game where I play anywhere remotely close to how I'm playing in my most recent two games, where I rolled town. If you can find even one, I will vote for myself.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1577 on: September 30, 2021, 07:44:26 pm »

(fun side note; that post took so long to write because I got distracted rereading my QT from Rewind mafia and getting lost in the nostalgia of being a survivor. That was a fun game!)
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1578 on: September 30, 2021, 08:19:52 pm »

Alright, just for kicks, and because I'm ill and called in sick and have nothing to do today, and because also it's starting to feel like a nuclear holocaust happened based on thread activity, here's one more classic scum!iguana post:

I can't believe that D1 of this game is now approaching 1200 posts. Has there ever been a game like this before? This is so so crazy.

I'm seriously getting exhausted with it. I'm starting to feel like scum just wins here because everyone looks the same.

I mean even if we do get a scum flip, then we have to go back and look at 1200 posts of stuff to figure out their partners. So crazy.

I feel demoralized.

In this game, I actually managed to make a fair number of big posts at first, but later in the game I couldn't keep up anymore because the weight of all the lying was really getting to me, and I eventually revealed myself to be scum with my angst and exhaustion.

That has not happened this game, because I am NOT scum NOT lying and instead I am in the exhilarating position of being town fighting for my life!
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1579 on: September 30, 2021, 08:30:27 pm »


my order would be

Joth/Iguana
E!
Math
MiX/Faust
Jim/WCD
Swowl

But yes, if we did do it, I would be fine with Iguana being first. Though you suggesting it makes me slightly weary.

Ok, I'm officially moving on from the iguana!meta!wormhole.

Let's not derail this day. Math should be the next one to claim. MiX already did (well faust did it for him). Then Jim, then Swowl. Either that, or we are not massclaiming because today is just about 2.7 vs. Iguana.  Personally I believe it's going to be better to get more claims out there, because that might help PoE 2.7's partners and show people that he's scum.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1580 on: September 30, 2021, 09:10:35 pm »

Well then. I do agree, iguana. You have played a good game. Without my result against you it seems likely that you would have been able to survive until the end and get a nice win.

But results are what they are, and you are scum.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1581 on: September 30, 2021, 09:15:11 pm »

Results: I'm a cop! Actually a 1 shot cop..... who didn't feel like using my ability N1.

And we're supposed to take this seriously?

Results are only results when they are true.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1582 on: September 30, 2021, 09:16:39 pm »

I mean you hadn't even decided what to claim at the moment you were typing it out. Did you just realize 1 shot was way more likely with EFHW's flip after the fact?
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1583 on: September 30, 2021, 09:17:10 pm »

Results: I'm a cop! Actually a 1 shot cop..... who didn't feel like using my ability N1.

And we're supposed to take this seriously?

Results are only results when they are true.

Well, you don't have to. Town should seriously consider it and vote appropriately.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1584 on: September 30, 2021, 09:18:12 pm »

I mean you hadn't even decided what to claim at the moment you were typing it out. Did you just realize 1 shot was way more likely with EFHW's flip after the fact?

I see you did some setup analysis in the scum QT N0. Not surprising.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1585 on: September 30, 2021, 09:22:50 pm »

Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1586 on: September 30, 2021, 09:26:17 pm »

I mean you hadn't even decided what to claim at the moment you were typing it out. Did you just realize 1 shot was way more likely with EFHW's flip after the fact?

I see you did some setup analysis in the scum QT N0. Not surprising.

Yeah except this isnt exactly the first time I've played Asher++ and I read the gkrieg/Ash masons one where it all came down to bad analysis of how likely roles are to appear, so I just know this stuff a priori.

This is another reason we need to mass claim. To see how likely his role is to even exist in the first place. (Probably not, because he made it up)
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1587 on: September 30, 2021, 09:27:23 pm »

I mean seriously, e wants town to believe he's fake claiming town who backs off his fake claim at the slightest provocation. How does that make any sense?
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

2.71828.....

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1588 on: September 30, 2021, 09:28:58 pm »

Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.

I disagree. In an open setup like this one, scum thinks about what town roles may or may not exist immediately and associated ideas for fake claims immediately.

And if anyone thinks scum wouldn't have seen the writing on the wall that a D3 mass claim would come up after not catching any scum D1 or D2 you haven't played mafia on this site very long
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1589 on: September 30, 2021, 09:30:18 pm »

I'm so suspicious of everyone on this wagon, because I literally just could not see the case at all. I think we 100% exile on the gkrieg wagon tomorrow. There is no way that wagon isn't riddled with scum. Gonna say 2/3.

(the wagon: gkrieg13 (6): faust, iguana, Jim, math, MiX, WCD)

Assuming I believe the MiX/WCD masons (which for now I do... haven't looked into what kind of gambit would be required to fake that!), if joth's right that it's 2/3 on the wagon, then from my perspective that's 2 out of faust, iguana, and Jim.  I could see that being a possibility.  I'm not convinced it's 2/3, but to get the hammer off in such a situation (with things moving around so much), I suspect it usually would be 2/3 or 3/3 in this situation.  I'd suspect a fully/mostly town-driven wagon would be more camped out on and scum just letting it happen.  Just a typical expectation though, not a guarantee here.

I'm not going to sit on this too much more at this point.  It's all hypothetical and guesswork.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1590 on: September 30, 2021, 09:32:39 pm »

Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.

I disagree. In an open setup like this one, scum thinks about what town roles may or may not exist immediately and associated ideas for fake claims immediately.

And if anyone thinks scum wouldn't have seen the writing on the wall that a D3 mass claim would come up after not catching any scum D1 or D2 you haven't played mafia on this site very long

This is a very good argument for why you are fake claiming scum!
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1591 on: September 30, 2021, 09:35:02 pm »

Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.

I disagree. In an open setup like this one, scum thinks about what town roles may or may not exist immediately and associated ideas for fake claims immediately.

And if anyone thinks scum wouldn't have seen the writing on the wall that a D3 mass claim would come up after not catching any scum D1 or D2 you haven't played mafia on this site very long

For example, look at M132s scum QT. https://quicktopic.com/53/H/RapQKYh2hNSEq

(I was looking for scum!faust games and found this one)

Open setup with known modifications. Not Asher++ but still similar setup theory talk is available. What do scum immediately do? Talk what roles town might have. The concept that scum came unprepared or disorganized into D3 just doesn't ring true to me
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1592 on: September 30, 2021, 09:35:49 pm »

Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.

I disagree. In an open setup like this one, scum thinks about what town roles may or may not exist immediately and associated ideas for fake claims immediately.

And if anyone thinks scum wouldn't have seen the writing on the wall that a D3 mass claim would come up after not catching any scum D1 or D2 you haven't played mafia on this site very long

Well, my EoD2 read didn't take as long as expected.  Ready to move onto the 10 pages of D3!

Also, I haven't played mafia on this site very long... and I've never played this setup before, I don't believe.  So I'm reading and learning these things.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1593 on: September 30, 2021, 09:38:37 pm »

2nd and 3rd posts of D3:

Let's go with my best read from D2 that I should never have abandoned and

Vote: iguana

Curious. Was this a gamble?

I feel that I need to reread. The gkrieg flip calls a few convictions into question.

In hindsight, e's post makes sense, as he later claims a scum result on iguana.  But that was a very fast (and very bold) reply by faust.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1594 on: September 30, 2021, 09:48:40 pm »

From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

iguana wants massclaim.
then e says it's not a good idea.
I think joth was next to weigh in, saying he's pro massclaim.
Jim says he's fine with it.

Then faust says he solved the game:
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1595 on: September 30, 2021, 09:50:52 pm »

Okay, I'm just making sense of this now. But this is 2.7's plan.

His team already knew they can't get me misexiled without a claim, because 2.7 tried that yesterday and no one bit or even listened to him. So he decided he needs an incriminating result on me to get me exiled. This puts scum into a very likely LyLo position once I die, ensuring that whoever else it is that they think they can get easily misexiled will win them the game.

Most likely, they had looked at MiX and WCD Iso's and figured out they were probably masons. And so they knew that PoE was going to make it very difficult for them unless they got rid of a towny player.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1596 on: September 30, 2021, 09:59:01 pm »

Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?

At first this didn't make sense to me either. Why not wait until Lylo to claim and go for the win? Then I realized, waiting until Lylo would look scummy as hell, and there would be no way that they'd get me exiled at LyLo. Plus, before LyLo, a million things could happen to PoE scum and put them in a worse position for a gambit like this. Doing it now, 2.7's team just sacrifices one player, and gets themselves to an automatic LyLo by exiling me.

The true towny day to claim as a 1 shot cop is D2, after you get your result. Claiming D3 when scum is one vote away from LyLo is scummy, because it puts their team in a position where they can get to a garanteed double LyLo without having to do any real work except an easy claim.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

mathdude

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1597 on: September 30, 2021, 10:00:28 pm »

The issue I have with a mass claim is that if someone had a skum result, they would just say it at this point. And as that is the only thing that really makes it super viable, I can't decide if it would be better to wait or not.

Swowl sets up the claim.  Is this Swowl prompting partner e to pull the gambit they discussed at night?  Seems too obvious.  But Swowl has been so absent for major parts of this game, maybe he didn't get to respond in night chat?

On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.

And then the claim comes out.  If he really did get a result on iguana, why didn't he post this at the beginning of the day?  We're likely 1 wrong exile away from lylo, so finding a scum can start the train of finding partners.  If you have a result as a town, why not open the day with it, rather than just jumping on him, as if it were a continuation of your D2 scumread?  I just don't get it.

Why wait until people don't bite, and then pull out a claim of cop?
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mathdude

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1598 on: September 30, 2021, 10:04:30 pm »

On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.
So who did you investigate N1?

I was wondering who would bring that up first.

I am just a lowly one shot cop.

This again looks very scummy.  Just claim cop to start (again, not at start of day, when it would have actually made sense), hope that claims continue so you can see if full cop is a viable fakeclaim.  But once challenged, rather than realize he could end up getting trapped, he plays it safe and goes for the more likely 1-shot.
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mathdude

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1599 on: September 30, 2021, 10:05:22 pm »

This is a fun exercise to see who believes me and who doesn't.

I don't see this being a comment town makes right after admitting they initially claimed cop and then just changed their claim to 1-shot cop.
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