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[faust]

MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.

[EFHW]

I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Reply to wall post... sort of.

I didn't think there was much there to respond to... the only main issue you seemed to have was that I skipped stuff and you thought I skipped the good stuff. There was a lot of posts I was quoting and responding to doing the reread. I had to pick some to skip. I kept the ones that stood out to me as I skimmed through. Even 1 or 2 of the long ones, I snipped, yes. I admit (and admitted at the time), I don't/didn't have a closed, condemning case. I was just providing my thoughts as I reread. Of course we would see the importance of some statements differ. That's part of the game.

My point was that you took a post with helpful content, snipped that content, and then presented what was left as an example of an unhelpful post.

[faust]

I feel a bit talked out... let's look at the vote count.

Vote Count 2.faust

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (2): jotheonah, Jimmmmm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.

So deadline is in less than 2 days. We should make sure to actually get an exile. The people who are not on a proper wagon should either move or make a case to convince people. The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.

So you want it to be me/math?

I want it to be you. mathdude would not have been my first choice for an alternate wagon, but what can you do?

[faust]

I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Try as I might, I can't come up with a way to disagree with faust.

In a game where we no-exiled D1, the N1 kill was a lurker, and there has been a lot of discussion around several people (faust, joth, math), you want to exile someone because of PoE and XAL? How does my flip help you for the rest of the game?

When I flip town and someone like e is killed in the night, where does that leave town for the rest of the game?

In a better position than if we had exiled an active town player. Exiling people who are active because then there are opinions about them has always been a stupid play that punishes engagement with the game. We made a wagon on you and people have reacted to it, so it's not like we couldn't deduce anything from that.

[faust]

gkrieg's one-line comments about the game are not really doing anything for me. it's the easiest type of content, like reaction videos on YouTube.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, fair point on D2 busy. I am missing the town!joth pushing the game forward bit. Instead he's doing that scummy thing of "wait for it..." and we wait.

I know I am especially suspicious of him because I am townreading so many people and he is on the edge of that (out past the edge are 2.7 and gkrieg). So, while I am not voting for him yet, I think that is probably where I end up. If he's not scum, then at least his flip is informative.  (So freaking smart for scum to off someone whose flip gave us no information at all. Grrrrr.)

Not exactly sure why, but the last parenthetical really seems like Didds waving her fist at herself.

Yeah that does seem a bit much.

[Jimmmmm]

I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Try as I might, I can't come up with a way to disagree with faust.

In a game where we no-exiled D1, the N1 kill was a lurker, and there has been a lot of discussion around several people (faust, joth, math), you want to exile someone because of PoE and XAL? How does my flip help you for the rest of the game?

When I flip town and someone like e is killed in the night, where does that leave town for the rest of the game?

This is just "I'm Town so don't exile me" and arguing for the least bad misexile.

[Jimmmmm]

I think a switch to faust could be a good idea.

I'd switch to faust.

[gkrieg13]

Okay, Gkrieg reread is the only one I have time for since it's going to be so short:

So his first several posts are meta-related. In a way that just reflects where we were at that stage of the game, but it's also worth noting that it's incredibly easy for scum to give that type of participation and nothing more.

so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW

Wait a minute - are you salty too?

Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.

To me, this seems potentially scummy. Partially because I am scumreading EFHW but also because it doesn't strike me as a particularly bold post that you could form a townread off of that. It does look like gkrieg and EFHW could be partners.

Still haven’t reread. I have just been reading things while I have time. Nothing has convinced me that mathdude is not scum yet.

Vote: mathdude

This is basically gkrieg's only contribution to D2. Just want to say, it is hard to fake changing your reads. Especially so if you are busy and having trouble keeping up as scum. But it is incredibly easy to just post a read, give a reason, then stick with that for the entire game. And that is what gkrieg is doing here so far.

Also, while I initially was townreading gkrieg for his case on Math, I think that because Math is an easy player to pick on, he's an easy target. So I can see the scum narrative there too in terms of trying to pick a town player as scum who looks scummy in order to have a case and look town. And then you naturally end up on someone who is misexiled often.

So, to me, it's not just gkrieg lurking. It's also the content of the lurking.

If this is the case I didn’t respond to then I know why I didn’t respond. I already talked about how changing reads is easy, and ironically, you can see my read change on EFHW throughout D1 if you look at my posts.

[gkrieg13]

I'm turning out to basically not have time to play today. Girieg said something like there is no case on him, but when he quoted my case on him he quoted only the part where I voted and ignored my actual reread of him where I gave reasons and didn't respond to any of that.

So I am happy to still be voting gkrieg.

People are saying something about WCD being scum and us being buddies and that does not make sense to me at all.

I’m not sure what part of your voting post I omitted when quoting it.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: gkrieg

I spent my mafia time today looking at comments that faust made on a setup I am trying to open, then came to check the thread. That was a mistake because there is a lot in here that I should respond to and now don't really have time to. I was hoping to do a read through of Swowl, gkrieg, faust, Joth, EFHW, and Math.

That is obviously not going to happen and starting tomorrow I'll be gone for two days. However, I'll be back before deadline and hopefully can do some of that work then.

[Jimmmmm]

Why is that? Why would town who has spent the majority of their day thinking about how EFHW is scum this game need EXTRA reasons to vote for EFHW. Or question why other people have "seen the light" and joined the EFHW wagon. It just feels....off.

I'm not sure there's anything in this. You generally want people to provide reasons for their votes whether they align with yours or not. Also, I think Didds was looking for feedback on her EFHW read, being someone who often scumreads her. See #504 and #506 where she asks for others' opinions on EFHW. You could maybe make an argument that asking for more opinions on your scumread is scummy, but I don't think how you've described it is accurate.

This feels extremely scummy to me. More specifically, it feels like scum who had moved on from her fake scum read on EFHW but then when reminded about it kept it alive, because you never know when you need to get that mis-exile in. Basically, I don't buy WCD's read on EFHW as being a genuine town reading another player as scum.

Yeah, this could be something. Didds was pushing for EFHW fairly hard Day 1, and I don't believe she's mentioned her Day 2, except when prompted. She also hasn't seemed to develop a stronger scumread (which would warrant a shift in focus), with her scumreads being expressed as "past the edge of being Townread", "questionable", etc.

[MiX]

MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.

Didds, you shouldn't post on other people's accounts.

I don't understand this. What does your vote have to do with me?

[MiX]

Anyway uh now we have 3 viable wagons instead of 2. Congratulations everyone.

Now, are we actually going to consolidate?

[MiX]

This is Jimmmmm assuming that it's TvT if Swowl's scum <snip>

So yeah I think Jimmmmm is right. If you still disagree I think this should be discussed.

This post by Jimmmmm is not relevant. He uses TvT as a hypothetical, as I mentioned earlier. Jimmmmm did ultimately see what I was trying to say. But I don't want to clutter the thread with this further. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I want to clutter the thread with this. It's part of my scumread on joth. Please, can you explain this in full detail once more so that at least I can understand?

[faust]

Anyway uh now we have 3 viable wagons instead of 2. Congratulations everyone.

Now, are we actually going to consolidate?

I mean, it was you who made that third wagon happen, I'm not sure what you are complaining about.

[MiX]

Anyway uh now we have 3 viable wagons instead of 2. Congratulations everyone.

Now, are we actually going to consolidate?

I mean, it was you who made that third wagon happen, I'm not sure what you are complaining about.

There was zero sarcasm in that post. I think that was a good thing.

[faust]

Oh. Well alright then. Having 3 viable wagons didn't pan out so well on D1, so I figured you were being sarcastic.

[faust]

MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.

Didds, you shouldn't post on other people's accounts.

I don't understand this. What does your vote have to do with me?

You know how I like to keep you guessing!

[WestCoastDidds]

^^ all of this is hilarious.

I need to get up and going and drive get to work. I’ll move my vote in a couple of hours.

[jotheonah]

I think a switch to faust could be a good idea.

I'd switch to faust.

To coin a phrase, faust is scum but he’s not the exile we need today.

[jotheonah]

(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)

[jotheonah]

(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)

To be more clear, I don’t currently think he’s actually scum. Not implying an alignment change.

[MiX]

(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)

To be more clear, I don’t currently think he’s actually scum. Not implying an alignment change.

Why couldn't you be town, joth

(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)

Who do you think is scum?

[faust]

(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)

How am I wrong? Do you think gkrieg is town? If so, why?