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[Swowl]

Vote: Joth

Why’s that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

@Swowl, why were you being stupid thinking EFHW was scum D1?

Also, this post seems very conscious about how Swowl will look, which is scummy.

1. Because I was being stupid.
2. Are you saying it is skummy that I answered a question about myself that was directed at me? I don't understand where the skumminess you see comes from here.

[jotheonah]

Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

I think I've answered this.

I think the TVT wagon thing was a nighttime scum plan to shape the agenda for the day (I think Jim said as much above).

I think you picked me over math because you forgot about your previous fake read.

Okie dokie well pretty much hits a 10 on the ridiculous scale. If there was a plan, then "my entire team" would of had to miss it, not just me.
I don't know what to make of you when you tunnel like this.

Maybe the scum team had a compelling reason to believe I was a higher priority misexile than mathdude. Or maybe the plan was not that detailed and you didn't run the part about choosing me over mathdude by them. Idk, i don't have access to your QT.

[gkrieg13]

I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.

Don't actually do this because it would be a huge waste of time.
But when in the world can you think of game that is open like this in which there has been a no lynch day 1 and one of the wagons were not skum?

Not sure what to make of this back-and-forth between Jimmmmm and Swowl. It may slightly feel like Swowl is overreacting to Jimmmm's questions, but I'm not sure.

[gkrieg13]

Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

This seems like iguana actually trying to make sense of things, seems townie.

[gkrieg13]

Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

I agree with faust here.

[gkrieg13]

Y’all are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.

I strongly disagree with this, especially in the way that it is trying to actively shut down wagon analysis.

[mathdude]

Cycling back all the D1 votes... I've re-compiled the info in a different format.  Here is who each person has voted for throughout D1.  Maybe I'll keeping it here more for my reference... but maybe others will find it useful too.

These are lists of who each person voted for, in what order.  I didn't note when people strictly unvoted (there were at least 2 cases where someone unvoted, then jumped back to the same person - I was one of them with Jim, but I don't remember the other).

MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth
iguana voted for: LaLight, joth, EFHW, math
math voted for: MiX, iguana, Jim
faust voted for: joth, iguana, joth, Jim, MiX, Jim, MiX, joth
LaLight voted for: iguana, MiX, faust, MiX
gkrieg voted for: iguana, math
2.71 voted for: iguana, math
WCD voted for: EFHW, joth
Jim voted for: joth, EFHW, faust, math
joth voted for: math, EFHW, Jim, EFHW, Jim
EFHW voted for: Jim, gkrieg, MiX, Jim, joth, math
Swowl voted for: EFHW, joth

So some people basically camped all day (and some toward the bottom took half the day before they even made their first vote).  Others jumped around and voted over half the available pool.  I'll cycle back to what I think of all this info later... out of time again.  (Also, I still hope to do a D2 vote summary similar to these as well... before EoD2).

[gkrieg13]

I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Does Didds usually try to buddy people as scum? (I know she does it as town, but wondering if it is stronger as scum).

[jotheonah]

MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

[jotheonah]

MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

[MiX]

I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Does Didds usually try to buddy people as scum? (I know she does it as town, but wondering if it is stronger as scum).

I think so, yeah.

MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

I'm pleasantly surprised you got one with portuguese subtitles.

So, are you calling yourself spam?

[mathdude]

MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

He just missed a joth vote between his iguana and EFHW votes.

[EFHW]

If this turns out to be town!math, then I will have more insight into how to read him, I think.

I think I'm going to have to go with my scumread and if I'm wrong I'll make adjustments in the future.

If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

I don't like this at all from EFHW; it's like she's pre-empting a misexile. Maybe someone can tell me if this is just a thing she says all the time, but the fact that she said it three times in a relatively short space of time indicates she really wanted to emphasise it and take pressure off of herself for having a read.

I kept saying that because Didds and iguana had both said this is town!math.

No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

[MiX]

No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

I remember agreeing with them but not seeing how they make math more scummy. I also remember being confirmation biased about it.

[MiX]

No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

I remember agreeing with them but not seeing how they make math more scummy. I also remember being confirmation biased about it.

I looked it over and I remembered that I thought you brought up one thing that was truly scummy and worth mentioning, but it's late and I'm not going to look for that right now.

So if anyone wants to vote math, you can read the EFHW post.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m not dead set against math

[jotheonah]

I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Does Didds usually try to buddy people as scum? (I know she does it as town, but wondering if it is stronger as scum).

I think so, yeah.

MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

I'm pleasantly surprised you got one with portuguese subtitles.

So, are you calling yourself spam?

It's not entirely unapt.

[Jimmmmm]

Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

All I know is that you concluded joth wasn't scum and math was middle leaning scummy, then voted for joth both Days for no given reason besides sheeping your Town reads. Have you noticed that both Didds and MiX have since more or less reversed their preference to math over joth? Does that change your preference, or do you have a read of your own?

One reason for picking joth over math could be thinking that the math wagon had enough steam of its own, so voting joth could be the best way to maintain both wagons. I'm not sure I agree that you simply forgot about your prior joth post, but there are any number of reasons you might decide to prefer joth.

[Swowl]

Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

All I know is that you concluded joth wasn't scum and math was middle leaning scummy, then voted for joth both Days for no given reason besides sheeping your Town reads. Have you noticed that both Didds and MiX have since more or less reversed their preference to math over joth? Does that change your preference, or do you have a read of your own?

One reason for picking joth over math could be thinking that the math wagon had enough steam of its own, so voting joth could be the best way to maintain both wagons. I'm not sure I agree that you simply forgot about your prior joth post, but there are any number of reasons you might decide to prefer joth.

You avoided my question, but I will still answer yours.

Yes I noticed they have switched. And I obviously have my own read at this point or I would not be voting for him currently. But yeah, it does make me question... like all my reads at least a little.
Have been attempting to finish a Joth v Math thing for a few days now. Hopefully will have it tonight.

[Jimmmmm]

What more information are you asking for that I haven't provided?

[Swowl]

What more information are you asking for that I haven't provided?

A better reason?
Sarcasm - I am just frustrated with this situation. I genuinely believe that I have a solid concept in Math v Joth. I also very much believe that Math has been towny in their responses since I posted my skum read on them, and Joth has been skummy in their defense of my push.

I also get that I am clearly tunneling and I am seriously trying to not do it, but every freekin time I go back to re reading I just end up back at joth.

I have been unfair in my frustration regarding you and Joth being suspicious of my switch from Math to Joth. For Joth, it is hard, because obviously I am reading them as skum. For you, it is frustrating because I feel like I am wasting time trying to convince a TR of mine that I am town.

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math, which just makes me feel more strongly about it being one of Joth/Math. Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town. Which is why, blaming myself too for not moving earlier on day 1, we need to freeking exile on day 1.

I will take the weekend to do an overhaul and see what I can see. But like I can chalk this up to one of the most frustrating games I have ever played (maybe second to BSG S1)

[Jimmmmm]

I don't get why you're frustrated. I've had enough lurky Day 1s to know that it catches up with you sooner or later. But you've only had 2 people putting any real amount of pressure on you. If you legitimately think joth is scum, then make some sort of case that goes beyond "one of them has to be scum and my Townreads voted joth".

[Swowl]

I don't get why you're frustrated. I've had enough lurky Day 1s to know that it catches up with you sooner or later. But you've only had 2 people putting any real amount of pressure on you. If you legitimately think joth is scum, then make some sort of case that goes beyond "one of them has to be scum and my Townreads voted joth".

I am not frustrated because of the "pressure". There is the guy I think is skum, and then you. I am frustrated because I was out Day 1 and am having trouble getting back in... and because I cannot seem to get anyone to see what it is I am seeing.

It is nearly midnight here, and I doubt it will do anything. But I will summarize my joth reasons when I get back from breakfast tomorrow.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't get why you're frustrated. I've had enough lurky Day 1s to know that it catches up with you sooner or later. But you've only had 2 people putting any real amount of pressure on you. If you legitimately think joth is scum, then make some sort of case that goes beyond "one of them has to be scum and my Townreads voted joth".

I am not frustrated because of the "pressure". There is the guy I think is skum, and then you. I am frustrated because I was out Day 1 and am having trouble getting back in... and because I cannot seem to get anyone to see what it is I am seeing.

It is nearly midnight here, and I doubt it will do anything. But I will summarize my joth reasons when I get back from breakfast tomorrow.

I sooooooo feel you. (Although of course I do). I didn’t realize how much the D1 fizzle would cost us in energy. And the LL flip told us nothing because he was out there voting on his own, anyway. It wasn’t the same as a deliberate noexile…it was just a flop. Which means this is just D1 redux. BUT, it blame is shared among all of us. You shouldn’t feel bad for we all did together.

Our inability to get off an exile of Joth or math is interesting though. If one was sum and one was town, why wouldn’t scum just all hop on the town. If they were both scum, wouldn’t they bus some one? But both Joth and math ended the day voting for Jim, not one another. Why?!?

[jotheonah]

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math,

On this small point we agree. Does the fact that I am so dead against the gkrieg exile not affect your read on me at all?