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Author Topic: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)  (Read 110502 times)

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2.71828.....

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #975 on: September 23, 2021, 03:48:47 pm »

Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

Dylan32

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #976 on: September 23, 2021, 03:52:56 pm »

*BRRRRRT* *BRRRRRT* *BRRRRRT* *BRRRRRT* Alarms rang out signalling that something had gone wrong with the oxygen tanks. The crew rushed to the control panels to hopefully fix it in time.

Vote Count 2.3

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (1): jotheonah
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Swowl

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #977 on: September 23, 2021, 04:31:35 pm »

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs

This doesn't really seem like a scum read on me.

I mean if you wanna pick out the one post.
Pull the one from today where I voted for you - does that feel like a skum read?
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

jotheonah

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #978 on: September 23, 2021, 04:40:41 pm »

Maybe quote the post you mean? I looked back and that was from today right around when you voted for me.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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Swowl

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #979 on: September 23, 2021, 05:19:58 pm »

Maybe quote the post you mean? I looked back and that was from today right around when you voted for me.

Sorry. Mobile.
But I was literally just saying “I’m voting for you today also, that is me saying I have a skum read”
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #980 on: September 23, 2021, 06:04:37 pm »

Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Yep, I read faust, did not find anything super scummy, and concluded it was not the right exile for today. I have some thoughts on him that I can write up later when I get one last chance to use a computer before I go VLA.

I don't really regret the vote, which I said was a PoE vote anyway. It attracted votes to me, which may be useful to look at later. And I still see no reason why Faust couldn't be scum. I'm just null on him and moving on for now.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #981 on: September 23, 2021, 06:05:52 pm »

It doesn't help that so much of his D1 is a giant fight with Jim that felt like a big bag of null from Faust. Townie from Jim though
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

jotheonah

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #982 on: September 23, 2021, 06:45:59 pm »

Maybe quote the post you mean? I looked back and that was from today right around when you voted for me.

Sorry. Mobile.
But I was literally just saying “I’m voting for you today also, that is me saying I have a skum read”

It seems to me that you went from townreading me, to voting for me without a strong scumread, to strongly scumreading me and the only thing that changed was what was convenient for you.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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EFHW

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #983 on: September 23, 2021, 07:34:13 pm »

I think EFHW is scummy. Her pushing Math is a lot like her pushing pubby. She's picking on someone whose ideas she can see as wrong, and arguing that makes them scum. I don't know if she does that as town but I know she does that as scum.

I'm surprised. You yourself noted that his narrative was problematic. I always scumread any post that seems to be distorting what really happened. It can be a sign of trying to mislead town or a sign of having trouble posting as scum. I can't dismiss everything in that post as "just town!math being town!math." If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

Can you show me where you see that he is distorting what really happened? Also, how many games have you played with Math before?

I think I played in most of his games. I wrote up 6 separate distortions in the wall post. But then I see he backed off at the end. So I'll back off (again).
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EFHW

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #984 on: September 23, 2021, 07:37:21 pm »

I can post the distortions if people want me to. I didn't want to add a wall post unnecessarily.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #985 on: September 23, 2021, 08:03:20 pm »

I can post the distortions if people want me to. I didn't want to add a wall post unnecessarily.

Do it!!

You can always snip his quotes so that the post is smaller.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #986 on: September 23, 2021, 08:27:58 pm »

Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Ok, so, this post is going to be kind of a doozy but here goes.

I believe you voted me / are still scum reading because you believe that I fabricated a vote on faust as a sort of scum tactic to see if anyone else was interested in voting him / to get rid of him / whatever.

But the real reason I voted faust is much more complicated than that and is related to like every game of mafia I've ever played.

Basically, I have a faust complex. And it stems from the fact that I think faust is, hands down, the best player on the site. I used to think it was faust and gkrieg and Galzria and Ashersky and Lalight and Robz that were all really really good and he was up there with them, but I now think he's the best, hands down. No insult to anyone else, it's just my opinion and I don't even know who else shares it. 

At the same time, true or not, I think of myself as one of the worst mafia players on the site. And it can be attested to in the fact that I often have bad reads, that my winrate has never even approached 50%, that the only game I ever got MVP I was a survivor just having to do the one thing I'm good at which is surviving to the end.

And ever since I started playing, I had issues with faust basically. Because in my very first game, I actually had really good reads, and I thought faust was scum for most of the game, and he was a mafia traitor hider. And I was a loud jailkeeper. And I tried to jailkeep him, but he was hiding, so he still got to do the factional kill. And that misled me to think he couldn't be the killer (last scum left) and I chose that it was not him and it was him and I lost for town. And I felt faust was scum but I was a newbie and couldn't really convince people enough to get him exiled and that game was really rough.

And then the next game I played, faust and I were both scum together. And as soon as I saw that I was scum, my heart sank, and when I saw that faust was my partner, this guy who had stomped me in the last game, my heart sank even further. And as a result I just could not play scum at all and I lurked really hard, played really different from my first game where I was super active town, and faust... I don't remember exactly what he ended up doing. I think he honestly ended up bussing me out of the game, but still lost due to having partnery interactions with me before the bussing, and it was just a really rough game. But my take-away from that game was, faust is amazing and I suck and I ruined the game for him.

And ever since that second game, I've sort of had a faust complex because both of those games were kind of rough.

And then in Lost mafia, I don't really remember how it went exactly, but faust and I were scum together and I ended up being the mafia goon who got volunteered to be the one to claim poisoner, so as a result I was just insta-gibbed on D3 when the first poisoning took effect. So that was another game that cemented my faust complex of feeling like: faust is really good at this, and he's really good at scum AND town, and you are just bad scum and stupid town and not worth very much because you're the sacrificial lamb this game. (side note: posting the memes was cool.)

And there was another game, I don't remember which, where faust was scum and I was town and I remember that it went all the way to Lylo and I had to choose between faust and Robz. And I remember that I was actually leaning faust, but then I saw Robz check the thread at a weird time and I got paranoid that he was checking the thread to do a quick scum!hammer, and I voted Robz and then faust and Calamitas voted Robz and I singlehandedly lost the game for town because I backed off my scumread on faust. And that was sort of a crushing game and I think one of the last ones I played.

And then in Oz mafia, I came back and I townread faust THE WHOLE GAME and then he was scum and he stomped our team and we lost. And I repeated a lot of the stupid mistakes I can remember myself making throughout my mafia tenure that I kind of told myself, I'm not coming back making those mistakes again. So I had sort of come back thinking, I'm going to get over my faust complex and other issues that I used to have when playing mafia, and then that super didn't happen, and yeah here I am.

So when I was sitting here in this game throwing my hands up in the air and voting faust becaus (at the time) I didn't have any strong scum reads, it's because I honestly was/am very jaded about trying to read faust. I just read him backwards. I've done it a bunch of times. And I'm at the point where I've given up on trying to find alignment indicative stuff from him because I feel like he plays on a level that I would like to but cannot achieve.

OKAY FINALLY -- Faust is a great guy! He's super nice outside of mafia and he even is nice and careful about what he says inside of mafia. And I recognize that my issues with him are my own issues and not his fault in any way. But, they do exist and sometimes they make me vote for him when it doesn't make sense.

All that to say, I'm currently over it. Yes, faust could be scum, but I've looked around more and have some other leads and I am OK with voting those leads at this time.

SO -- Yes, I read some of faust's posts last night, before falling asleep. No, I didn't find anything particularly informative from them! And I've just decided, I'm not going to reread the rest of faust right now, because I don't think it's the most productive thing to do right now, and after reading through gkrieg I am much happier with that vote anyway.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #987 on: September 23, 2021, 08:37:48 pm »

I do think 2.7 is the towniest of the less active players. His read on Joth as being town because Joth is playing "a very open unafraid game" matches my own gut read of Joth. And the cases he is making are all making sense to me. The thing he pointed out about faust here:

Reading faust was most enjoyable. He was fun, charming, and full of wonderful anecdotes that inspire the rest of us to play the game of mafia better.

I also think there is a decent chance that he is scum.

Consider this from D1:

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This sounds nice and everything, but those three votes happened in his first 13 posts (joth-iguana-joth-jimmm votes), and that early one of those could very well have been a vote on a partner.  So while it sounds super neat and all, it is a total deflection that a casual reader takes as a townie point for faust. I think it is scummy.

I could quote more, but he has been quite the prolific poster, so I will settle for this one example. I am going to go back and reevaluate mathdude, lets see where that takes me.

I thought was quite insightful, and the sort of thing that I would never notice trying to reread faust and look for any signs of scum. But I also think that point is pretty small in the totality of the game to where it's not a huge thing pushing me to think faust is actually scum here.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #988 on: September 23, 2021, 09:00:15 pm »

I'm going VLA for the next two days starting basically now.

I'm probably not going to post at all. I'm celebrating my wife's birthday on a weekend trip and she's not going to be keen on me checking mafia at that time.

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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

jotheonah

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #989 on: September 23, 2021, 10:33:12 pm »

I'm going VLA for the next two days starting basically now.

I'm probably not going to post at all. I'm celebrating my wife's birthday on a weekend trip and she's not going to be keen on me checking mafia at that time.

I know that feel bro.

Thanks for being honest about your faust complex, which is also relatable.

Is there any chance of anyone joining me on Swowl, or is it time for me to switch to a more viable wagon?
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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EFHW

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #990 on: September 23, 2021, 10:46:59 pm »

Iguana, you are WAY too hard on yourself.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #991 on: September 23, 2021, 10:59:39 pm »

I don't think faust and ash are the scum team, but it's pretty clear to me that if faust and ash were the scum team they could pretty much do whatever they want and get away with it and that seems like a problem.

I feel exactly the same way right now about faust and MiX.

This is a reasonable approximation of my argument against faust.
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EFHW

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #992 on: September 23, 2021, 10:59:46 pm »

I put my comments in bold italics under the portions they refer to. I did my best to be compact without losing context.

I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.
I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.
Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
I don't like the excuse for not wanting to vote MiX.  Then, I get that it's D1 and we don't know much, but "saltiness" doesn't seem like a good reason to jump on a vote.
This was clearly an RVS vote.

Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?
Because you're questioning it. That puts the chance out there that the two of you are partners.
For me personally finding partner interactions is too hard without a single flip and it's a sort of folly to try. That sort of things lends itself to confirmation bias easily.
This looks like an easy way to avoid committing to doing much useful stuff D1 - something scum would want to do, as long as it looks like an exile will actually happen.

This is conventional mafia wisdom not an excuse to not do anything. iguana has been one of the most active players, so I don't see how he can be accused of trying not to do anything useful.

Now we get into some more of the good stuff!

Third vote is scum
Vote: math
I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.
Vote: Mathdude
Maybe it's a poor choice of words, but this case is definitely not "persuasive".  This is a good excuse to jump on a wagon (e provided a flimsy reason to vote me, why not jump on and see what happens?).  But it's not persuasive, by any means.  Scum!iguana makes it seem like there's more of a case on me than there really is.

It's possible math missed iguana's humor/sarcasm here.

yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.
Sure. So I will read Joth now.
Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum.
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.
And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.
That's my general impression.
-snip-
The "Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum" is something I'll come back to later with iguana, and part of why I think he's scum.

Otherwise, in that post, he's all over the map, commenting about joth, but not really saying anything useful for us to use for or against in the future.

Here he snips out part of the post and then says there was nothing useful in it. This is what was in the snip: "Specifically (after reading) what's different between Joth and the scum game I read is that Joth in the scum game had a really hard time making cases and would literally say like "IDK... I gues we could exile Scolapasta???" in response to questions about who he scumread and in this game he does nothing but post cases and reasons for scumreading people. Oh yeah... and Joth was one of the others who was starting to convince me that Jim could be scum. This was a decent case. Well, I don't know about the MiX-partner-theory part. (I'm a little leery of partner theories RN because they screwed me last time.) But the other parts were convincing." Helpful content.

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.
Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.

This was an OMGUS reply.
It's not OMGUS when three separate reasons are provided.

Last thing I wanted to do is take a look at the current game state. With less than a day to deadline... Jim is the only one stubbornly not moving his vote to any kind of a wagon. Still, I don't like the look of the people voting Jim and do not want to vote there. I don't think I like voting MiX either given that the two votes on him are coming from people I don't really trust. I could move to EFHW but I think I still want to see if anyone else is interested in Math.

That's a lot of people he doesn't like the look of and doesn't really trust.  It's one thing to not be townreading a lot of people D1.  But this looks like throwing shade on a lot of people, and seeing what will stick.
There's no indication that he is trying to throw shade to see what sticks. And distrust is healthy in mafia!

On to D2...

Iguana, I understand you can't fathom having a townread on me, but others can.
It's not that no one could TR you but I do want to know where he's coming from on said town read
This quote and his previous post look like just trying to start something, where nothing needed to be started.  Scum trying to build up trouble start of D2 maybe?
How is this trying to start trouble?

Vote: faust
And I believe at this point, I was the only one voting faust, and he jumps on to maybe start a wagon. This is inconsistent with his earlier play this game.
iguana's vote on faust came 130 posts after math's. "Jumping on" has a negative connotation here, but doesn't apply.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #993 on: September 23, 2021, 11:02:29 pm »

I don't think faust and ash are the scum team, but it's pretty clear to me that if faust and ash were the scum team they could pretty much do whatever they want and get away with it and that seems like a problem.

I feel exactly the same way right now about faust and MiX.

This is a reasonable approximation of my argument against faust.
But this isn't an argument, it's a story. Literally a "what if ..."
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #994 on: September 23, 2021, 11:15:20 pm »

The argument is that it's a problem that should at least be considered.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #995 on: September 24, 2021, 01:43:03 am »

-snip-.

Was not expecting a whole history.

Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Ok, so, this post is going to be kind of a doozy but here goes.

I believe you voted me / are still scum reading because you believe that I fabricated a vote on faust as a sort of scum tactic to see if anyone else was interested in voting him / to get rid of him / whatever.

But the real reason I voted faust is much more complicated than that and is related to like every game of mafia I've ever played.

I actually was thinking the two of you were partners doing a little partner bussing dance.

The whole history lesson is a bit compelling to pull me off that narrative, I will stick to just faust being scum

On the other hand....
I used to think it was faust and gkrieg and Galzria and Ashersky and Lalight and Robz that were all really really good and he was up there with them, but I now think he's the best, hands down.

Who decided to NK lalight is still to be determined and someone who views them as strong town is a as compelling an argument as we have.

In the end, I think either you or faust could still be scum, leaning more towards faust, less toward both of you
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #996 on: September 24, 2021, 01:53:48 am »

so, read joth, faust, math, MiX, LL, and iguana.  From that group I would say:

more scummy: faust, iguana
more towny: joth, math, MiX

I am suspicious of my fellow lurkers, especially because of the no exile on D1, but I like my vote where it is at for now.  Remind me to read EFHW, Swowl, Didds, and gkrieg later. I don't need to read Jimmmmm, I am confident in my D1 read that he is town.

And to be honest, there is some PoE confirmation bias that makes me think faust is scum. Looking at 3 scum in 10.

I think joth, jimmmm, and MiX are town, 3/7 removing them.
If iguana v faust is town v scum, then it is 1 scum (faust) in that group of 5 with two more in {EFHW, Swowl, Didds, and gkrieg, math}
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #997 on: September 24, 2021, 02:20:51 am »

If this turns out to be town!math, then I will have more insight into how to read him, I think.

I think I'm going to have to go with my scumread and if I'm wrong I'll make adjustments in the future.

If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

I don't like this at all from EFHW; it's like she's pre-empting a misexile. Maybe someone can tell me if this is just a thing she says all the time, but the fact that she said it three times in a relatively short space of time indicates she really wanted to emphasise it and take pressure off of herself for having a read.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #998 on: September 24, 2021, 03:39:23 am »

Unsurprisingly, I think joth makes some good points about Swowl, but I was like, "Does scum actually do that?" That is, come out as Swowl did Day 2, without acknowledgement of his prior post about joth.

I thought a bit more about the no-exile. Generally, Town wants to exile unless there's a reason not to. So how does scum feel about it if the main wagons are TvT? Would they rather make sure one of them goes through, or are they happier with the no-exile? With a no-exile, they get a free kill (offset by any Cops Town might have), but risk coming out worse if Day 2 results in a successful exile. But if those same TvT wagons come up again, they're laughing.

Then I realised, this is exactly what Swowl was pushing. And increasing their activity by advocating a theory-based exile makes sense for a lurky scum who knows they need to start contributing more but isn't sure what reads they can justify.

I'm not suggesting scum purposefully allowed a no-exile; I don't see the evidence for that. But if it was TvT, which I'm inclined to think is likely, scum definitely want people to assume it wasn't.

Vote: Swowl
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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #999 on: September 24, 2021, 03:59:24 am »

I thought a bit more about the no-exile. Generally, Town wants to exile unless there's a reason not to. So how does scum feel about it if the main wagons are TvT? Would they rather make sure one of them goes through, or are they happier with the no-exile? With a no-exile, they get a free kill (offset by any Cops Town might have), but risk coming out worse if Day 2 results in a successful exile. But if those same TvT wagons come up again, they're laughing.
The way I see it, scum wants to find PRs. Bringing townies close to exile results in claims, so scum wants that. It's less important that the exile actually goes through, but they'd at least want to push town to X-1.
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The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all
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