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[EFHW]

I might be getting hung up on math the way a lot of people got hung up on MiX. His posts with content tend, to me, to feel either aggressive or fake or both. If this turns out to be town!math, then I will have more insight into how to read him, I think. As it is, I am assuming newbie!scum play.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t know, EFHW. I was scum with math in the dwarf bastard game, and he was really calculating in his posts. They weren’t the kind of contemplative train-of-thoughts posts we’re seeing here. So newbie!scum!math was deliberate with his words.

I’m not seeing that so far in this game.

[EFHW]

I don’t know, EFHW. I was scum with math in the dwarf bastard game, and he was really calculating in his posts. They weren’t the kind of contemplative train-of-thoughts posts we’re seeing here. So newbie!scum!math was deliberate with his words.

I’m not seeing that so far in this game.

I'll look back at that game.

[jotheonah]

Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.

I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.

[faust]

Two scenarios. One (partner) where he was bussing you for distance but wanted to get off before the wagon kept growing larger. Two (framing) where he wanted it to look like that. Because he seemed to want to get off that wagon in a hurry.

Well, I'm town, so I'm ignoring the first scenario. What you are saying is... scum!mathdude is actively trying to look like scum in order to implicate me?

[EFHW]

Two scenarios. One (partner) where he was bussing you for distance but wanted to get off before the wagon kept growing larger. Two (framing) where he wanted it to look like that. Because he seemed to want to get off that wagon in a hurry.

Well, I'm town, so I'm ignoring the first scenario. What you are saying is... scum!mathdude is actively trying to look like scum in order to implicate me?

My thought was that given how close he came D1 to being exiled, he might be trying to make the most of it, assuming he would be the exile today. Could be far-fetched. How do you explain the post?

[iguanaiguana]

@EFHW, I was seeing a lot of posts like that last game too, when Math was town.

One thing I've noticed about Math is that he sort of describes things in black and white. In a way, it makes sense for a game like mafia because either you're scum or you're town. But he doesn't often seem to leave room for the uncertainty of things like "you might be town" or "you might be right, but you might be wrong." But the way he said I'm either super helpful or lying scum, it's like he had this gut reaction and he didn't even consider the in between.

And I think I was seeing that from Math and having a hard time not scum reading it in Oz as well.

I'll be honest. I'm still having trouble not reading every third thing Math says as scum. But I think there are enough reasons to consider him town right now that he shouldn't be the exile today. IMO we need to look elsewhere.

[faust]

Two scenarios. One (partner) where he was bussing you for distance but wanted to get off before the wagon kept growing larger. Two (framing) where he wanted it to look like that. Because he seemed to want to get off that wagon in a hurry.

Well, I'm town, so I'm ignoring the first scenario. What you are saying is... scum!mathdude is actively trying to look like scum in order to implicate me?

My thought was that given how close he came D1 to being exiled, he might be trying to make the most of it, assuming he would be the exile today. Could be far-fetched. How do you explain the post?

Dunno, he got paranoid when a scumread of his joined his vote with flimsy reasoning? It happens to me all the time.

[iguanaiguana]

No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.

Well, I could also go for gkrieg. I believe I said that.

[faust]

No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.

Well, I could also go for gkrieg. I believe I said that.

That would be preferable. Though it would be best if you went for joth.

[WestCoastDidds]

Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.

I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.

We are waiting with bated breath!!

[iguanaiguana]

No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.

Well, I could also go for gkrieg. I believe I said that.

That would be preferable. Though it would be best if you went for joth.

All game long, joth has been demonstrating his towniness absent any argument for his scumminess. How could you possibly be voting him?

[WestCoastDidds]

iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

[iguanaiguana]

iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

I keep getting stuck on, he's voting his reads and pushing the game forward, and I looked at two of his scum games and did not see him do that at all. Like, he played super weak as scum. It wasn't obvious scum. It was just... I'm going to try to fade into the background scum. Like maybe D1 Oz scum Dylan was doing.

Now maybe that argument applies more to D1 than to D2 so far... but given that he says he's busy and a big case is coming... I'd like to hear it.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, fair point on D2 busy. I am missing the town!joth pushing the game forward bit. Instead he's doing that scummy thing of "wait for it..." and we wait.

I know I am especially suspicious of him because I am townreading so many people and he is on the edge of that (out past the edge are 2.7 and gkrieg). So, while I am not voting for him yet, I think that is probably where I end up. If he's not scum, then at least his flip is informative.  (So freaking smart for scum to off someone whose flip gave us no information at all. Grrrrr.)

[MiX]

iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

I keep getting stuck on, he's voting his reads and pushing the game forward, and I looked at two of his scum games and did not see him do that at all. Like, he played super weak as scum. It wasn't obvious scum. It was just... I'm going to try to fade into the background scum. Like maybe D1 Oz scum Dylan was doing.

Now maybe that argument applies more to D1 than to D2 so far... but given that he says he's busy and a big case is coming... I'd like to hear it.

Did you end up reading the scum game where he actually won?

[iguanaiguana]

iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

I keep getting stuck on, he's voting his reads and pushing the game forward, and I looked at two of his scum games and did not see him do that at all. Like, he played super weak as scum. It wasn't obvious scum. It was just... I'm going to try to fade into the background scum. Like maybe D1 Oz scum Dylan was doing.

Now maybe that argument applies more to D1 than to D2 so far... but given that he says he's busy and a big case is coming... I'd like to hear it.

Did you end up reading the scum game where he actually won?

Blah, no! Remember? I asked you to summarize that EoD1 and you said it was irrelevant!

[MiX]

iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

I keep getting stuck on, he's voting his reads and pushing the game forward, and I looked at two of his scum games and did not see him do that at all. Like, he played super weak as scum. It wasn't obvious scum. It was just... I'm going to try to fade into the background scum. Like maybe D1 Oz scum Dylan was doing.

Now maybe that argument applies more to D1 than to D2 so far... but given that he says he's busy and a big case is coming... I'd like to hear it.

Did you end up reading the scum game where he actually won?

Blah, no! Remember? I asked you to summarize that EoD1 and you said it was irrelevant!

That's not how I remember that conversation going. I just reread it and I still wouldn't know that you wanted me to summarize that game.

Just read it yourself. I died before I started looking at joth that game so I don't actually know how joth posted then.

[iguanaiguana]

That's fine. I didn't have time to do it EoD1 which is why I asked for a summary then. I'll have time before EoD2 so I'm happy to do it myself.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

[2.71828.....]

going to iso Joth and faust, will post thoughts then go from there.

[2.71828.....]

going to iso Joth and faust, will post thoughts then go from there.

I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1

Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.

I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.

Its going to be a good one, lets not exile Joth D2.

That being said, I feel as thought Joth is playing a very open unafraid game that I associate with town. Basically, you know who you are, you don't know who anyone else is, and you just go for it. His D1 reads evolved in a very (in my opinion) natural way as opposed to scum trying to force a read. Opening D2 talking about reading LaLight's posts and deciding to vote MiX could be WIFOM coming from scum who did that analysis at night, but it felt very town just rereading the game to me.

Really, nothing from Joth sticks out as scummy.  I disagree with him at points, but I don't see his positions coming from scummy motives.

[MiX]

I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

No. I presumed you meant notes about the spark game.

[MiX]

I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

No. I presumed you meant notes about the spark game.

Which does not make any sense when you think about it.

I think I assumed that you thought I linked the spark game because joth was also scum and also won there, but from what I remember that fact was only brought to me today, so I am simply somewhat confused as to how this whole thing came to be.

It's clear that this back-and-forth we had EoD1 was riddled with misunderstandings. We should just ignore it.

[2.71828.....]

Reading faust was most enjoyable. He was fun, charming, and full of wonderful anecdotes that inspire the rest of us to play the game of mafia better.

I also think there is a decent chance that he is scum.

Consider this from D1:

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?

Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This sounds nice and everything, but those three votes happened in his first 13 posts (joth-iguana-joth-jimmm votes), and that early one of those could very well have been a vote on a partner.  So while it sounds super neat and all, it is a total deflection that a casual reader takes as a townie point for faust. I think it is scummy.

I could quote more, but he has been quite the prolific poster, so I will settle for this one example. I am going to go back and reevaluate mathdude, lets see where that takes me.