Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jimmmmm]

Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.

You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

Why?

[LaLight]

I don't see myself as lurker in this game.

No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

I know, it's just I know for a fact that I am checking this game much more often than my last n games (excluding legacy). And also every time I am checking, I post something.

[Jimmmmm]

Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.

Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.

I think a major similarity between the two games is level of confidence. As Town I'm rarely confident of my reads. As scum I'm not confident of my convincingness and know not to be confident in my reads. In the other game I knew I was right and so was not going to back down. Here I'm not confident that you're scum, but I'm confident that your strategy is harmful and should be resisted. In the scum games you mentioned, I addressed the specific points against me and then continued what I was otherwise doing.

[faust]

Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.

You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

Why?

I give reasons and you basically say "oh doesn't matter, it all confirmation bias". Like, if that's the level of engagement I can expect then I might as well not give my reasons.

[Jimmmmm]

What about the rest of what I said?

[Jimmmmm]

Also, why would you want to act differently based on the opinion of one person you say is scum?

[faust]

What about the rest of what I said?

The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.

[faust]

Also, why would you want to act differently based on the opinion of one person you say is scum?

I'm no longer voting you, if you noticed. I'm cured!

[Jimmmmm]

You don't think I'm scum?

[faust]

You don't think I'm scum?

Well, I believe you are more likely town than scum.

[Jimmmmm]

What about the rest of what I said?

The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.

Must have missed the substance of what you said then. I'll try again.

"Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town."
This feels like a heading rather than substance (ie what will follow is how MiX is is performing town)".

"The overinflated townread on me."
I guess the substance is the suggestion that MiX has a stronger Townread on you than he ought to if he was Town. His posts early in the Day make this difficult for me to judge because they provide no context but seem confident. If you're talking about these posts it would great if you could indicate how they show an overinflated Townread, and how you know how seriously to take them. If you're talking about the post-argument posts suggesting we're both Town it'd be great if you said more about that since you didn't say much at the time other than the argument is NAI and MiX's response is a meme.

'The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology).'
I didn't mean to harp on the "exile all lurkers" term if that's what you're talking about. Whether we're talking about lurkers or just those who have avoided the limelight, why is it scummy of MiX to decide that he wants to look at and/or exile someone from among them?

"Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum."
This feels like a conclusion rather than substance.

[MiX]

I don't see myself as lurker in this game.

No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

LaLight isn't a lurker this game. They're just flying under the radar. Same for everyone in that list (except Swowl and iguana are actually lurking).

[EFHW]

What does scum want to do? They want to

A) Make sure the exile is a town player
B) Make sure that they don't appear to be the one who drove that exile when the player flipped town.

So any strategy that helps accomplish both those goals is not just bad play, but scummy play.

Trying to exile Town faust with minimal support based entirely on argumentation is a mountain that scum me just does not need.

Don't know about joth, but I never thought you were trying to exile faust.

[EFHW]

I don't see myself as lurker in this game.

No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

LaLight isn't a lurker this game. They're just flying under the radar. Same for everyone in that list (except Swowl and iguana are actually lurking).

They aren't lurking, either. They have been not available.

[LaLight]

They're just flying under the radar.

I admit that. I find it hard to engage in discussions D1 and meta-discussions as a whole.

[jotheonah]

Ok, that was a really admirable defense Jimmmmm mounted. But… it’s the sort of admirable defense I tend to mount as scum. But I feel like an ass saying that because I get how it feels like confirmation bias from Jim’s seat.

And yeah, I am being a bit stubborn. But with good reason. I feel like I always see this day 1 strat of poking around until we find a consensus exile, usually a last-minute one. And of course that’s always town because that strategy gives scum a lot of power. So I’ve been really trying to stick to my guns here.

But also, I’ve spotted a few things now in Faust’s play that just seem sloppy as town (which is out of character) or subtly manipulative as scum (which is in character). Things like:

- the aforementioned false dichotomy on EFHW
- selecting Jim games for comp but not mentioning relative things like posting restrictions and bastard games

Idk, dollars to donuts I think one of {Jim, faust} is probably scum. But that’s always a dangerous road too.

I think I’m way too I’m my head and I need to re-read or something.

[faust]

What about the rest of what I said?

The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.

Must have missed the substance of what you said then. I'll try again.

"Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town."
This feels like a heading rather than substance (ie what will follow is how MiX is is performing town)".

"The overinflated townread on me."
I guess the substance is the suggestion that MiX has a stronger Townread on you than he ought to if he was Town. His posts early in the Day make this difficult for me to judge because they provide no context but seem confident. If you're talking about these posts it would great if you could indicate how they show an overinflated Townread, and how you know how seriously to take them. If you're talking about the post-argument posts suggesting we're both Town it'd be great if you said more about that since you didn't say much at the time other than the argument is NAI and MiX's response is a meme.

'The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology).'
I didn't mean to harp on the "exile all lurkers" term if that's what you're talking about. Whether we're talking about lurkers or just those who have avoided the limelight, why is it scummy of MiX to decide that he wants to look at and/or exile someone from among them?

"Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum."
This feels like a conclusion rather than substance.

Yes I think you missed the substance. In my view the substance is exactly the two sentences you labeled "not substance". The other two are just examples of that behaviour. So talking about how I am so easy to read and he's figured my out and I'm town is like trying to convey that town!MiX swagger, but it's does not ring genuine. Trying to pivot in the face of two long-standing wagons has the same ring of something that scum!MiX thinks will look townie, but his heart isn't in it, and it shows.

Ultimately it's all gut feeling of MiX not being genuine, which is why it does not do any good to give these reasons. When I posted I just wanted to give people something to focus their attention on, but I can't explain to you how it is scummy if you don't see it for yourself.

What is your read on MiX anyway?

[Jimmmmm]

I guess the problem is the two sentences you say are substance are the two vague ones that I don't know what to do with, so I'd rather deal with the examples, which I'm not convinced by. I think I have some understanding of where you're coming from now though.

Regarding my read on MiX, I'm trying not to be influenced by his Townread on me but boy is that hard sometimes.

[MiX]

Yes I think you missed the substance. In my view the substance is exactly the two sentences you labeled "not substance". The other two are just examples of that behaviour. So talking about how I am so easy to read and he's figured my out and I'm town is like trying to convey that town!MiX swagger, but it's does not ring genuine. Trying to pivot in the face of two long-standing wagons has the same ring of something that scum!MiX thinks will look townie, but his heart isn't in it, and it shows.

Ultimately it's all gut feeling of MiX not being genuine, which is why it does not do any good to give these reasons. When I posted I just wanted to give people something to focus their attention on, but I can't explain to you how it is scummy if you don't see it for yourself.

What is your read on MiX anyway?

I have no idea what else I can do this game that helps you townread me. I haven't even been performative.

What do you think of my gkrieg reread? What do you think of my joth scumread? What do you think of my read on e being partnered with joth? What do you think of my EFHW scumread? What do you think of my Jimmmmm townread (although you probably already talked about this)?

Do you not think we should talk about people that have been completely ignored today? Do you think there's scum in faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/math/joth with 100% certainty?

And how can you seriously look at this D1 and the previous game's D1 and not say you've been much more townie here than before?

Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.

[faust]

Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.

You're scum.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm probably against exiling MiX for now. He's one of those people who I really don't know how to get a read on, to the point where it doesn't really feel worth trying.

Things seem to be improving at the moment (not just because I'm looking less likely to be exiled than I was). I'll spend some time tomorrow having a good look at alternatives.

[MiX]

Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.

You're scum.

No.

[MiX]

I mean honestly this should be the cherry on top of the town!faust cake.

If I die today because, I don't know, reasons, just sheep me on faust. I don't even care.

[Jimmmmm]

Ok, that was a really admirable defense Jimmmmm mounted. But… it’s the sort of admirable defense I tend to mount as scum. But I feel like an ass saying that because I get how it feels like confirmation bias from Jim’s seat.

I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless. Being understood and disbelieved/disagreed with in this game beats the heck out of feeling like we're typing past each other.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.

You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

This made me laugh!